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Fluttershy's insults from "Putting your hoof down" her real feelings?


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Given that I am a shy person myself, I don't speak up a lot about the things that annoy me about my friends. If you're also shy, or soft-spoken, you know that once something happens to anger you enough your restraint finally falls and you say the things you never meant to. In that case, then, does Fluttershy losing her temper against Pinkie Pie and Rarity and specifically going for the one things that would hurt them the most, their Cutie Mark destinies, mean she actually secretly felt that way about her friends, even if just a little?

 

Throwing their own lives away on fruitless pursuits? Well, Rarity is a bit more understandable as having a fruitless pursuit by running a clothing store in a town where they seldom wear clothes. Pinkie is a little harder to comprehend as she makes it her life pursuit to bring joy to others, but at the same time, that doesn't bring in the bits, so if it weren't for her job at sugarcube corner, she'd effectively be a freeloader. 

 

Of course, given that Fluttershy seemingly doesn't have a job of any kind, short of one time being seen walking Wynona, we have to wonder how she might see herself as being above her friends. Of course when you're in an aggresive mode you wouldn't be likely to consider your own faults.

 

On a side note of the hidden side's of Fluttershy, she can also be manipulative. Take "Just for Sidekicks." She knows Spike and Angel don't get along, but plays off she only has 'one little jewel' to offer to get him to go for it, knowing full well that Spike loves eating jewels. Though I don't think it was a conscious manipulation.

Edited by Never2muchpinkie
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Fluttershy has also been shown the most willing to lie to her friends in order to avoid a situation like she does in Art of the Dress and has to be more or less backed into a corner by Rarity before she says what she really feels.

Edited by Malinter
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I wouldnt exacty say it was her true feelings, was just acting on impluse from bad advice given from iron will. You know like when we're mad (most of us anyways) will say and do the first thing that comes to mind abd not think of the repercussions of our actions till later, while when level headed we can fully think out our best course of action. I believe thats all what happened to Fluttetshy there not her true feelings at all.

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Given that I am a shy person myself, I don't speak up a lot about the things that annoy me about my friends. If you're also shy, or soft-spoken, you know that once something happens to anger you enough your restraint finally falls and you say the things you never meant to. In that case, then, does Fluttershy losing her temper against Pinkie Pie and Rarity and specifically going for the one things that would hurt them the most, their Cutie Mark destinies, mean she actually secretly felt that way about her friends, even if just a little?

 

Throwing their own lives away on fruitless pursuits? Well, Rarity is a bit more understandable as having a fruitless pursuit by running a clothing store in a town where they seldom wear clothes. Pinkie is a little harder to comprehend as she makes it her life pursuit to bring joy to others, but at the same time, that doesn't bring in the bits, so if it weren't for her job at sugarcube corner, she'd effectively be a freeloader. 

 

Of course, given that Fluttershy seemingly doesn't have a job of any kind, short of one time being seen walking Wynona, we have to wonder how she might see herself as being above her friends. Of course when you're in an aggresive mode you wouldn't be likely to consider your own faults.

 

On a side note of the hidden side's of Fluttershy, she can also be manipulative. Take "Just for Sidekicks." She knows Spike and Angel don't get along, but plays off she only has 'one little jewel' to offer to get him to go for it, knowing full well that Spike loves eating jewels. Though I don't think it was a conscious manipulation.

 

 

You know maybe i'm a sucker for flutter shy's "Act" and i can't see through it.  Um maybe? 

Here's a easy cop out.  Maybe just maybe rarity and pinkie are "gasp" frivolous and flutter shy correctly asserted the truth.

 

I think it would been alot more shocking if she had a bunch of mis conceptions she kept secretly to herself.

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Unlike Flutterbitch, in Return of Harmony, who was acting out of character and under a spell, Fluttershy, in Put your Hoof Down, was not herself, but it's not fair to say she was being controlled by Iron Will, so I really think on some level she did agree with her asssments of Rarity and Pinkie.

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I actually think there was an element of truth in them. I believe that Fluttershy is the most manipulative of the Mane 6, all because of her shy persona, and wanting to avoid confrontation and conflict. Yes, she can assert herself (evidently) - however, this assertion never seems to stick around, making it a weak element of her character, which implies to me that she sort of 'picks and chooses' which situations to be assertive in, and which ones to be passive in. Which, in my opinion, makes her character a little less trustworthy as a whole. 

 

So yeah, I think she simply decided to act upon assertion in that particular instance; however, the insult was strengthened because of bad advice. Still, for me, it doesn't hide that element of truth. I mean, her insults weren't particularly far-fetched, and related to their characters/personalities, in a very extreme way of course.

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I actually think there was an element of truth in them. I believe that Fluttershy is the most manipulative of the Mane 6, all because of her shy persona, and wanting to avoid confrontation and conflict. Yes, she can assert herself (evidently) - however, this assertion never seems to stick around, making it a weak element of her character, which implies to me that she sort of 'picks and chooses' which situations to be assertive in, and which ones to be passive in. Which, in my opinion, makes her character a little less trustworthy as a whole. 

 

So yeah, I think she simply decided to act upon assertion in that particular instance; however, the insult was strengthened because of bad advice. Still, for me, it doesn't hide that element of truth. I mean, her insults weren't particularly far-fetched, and related to their characters/personalities, in a very extreme way of course.

 

 

Um, maybe she prefers not to be assertive lol.  I mean seriously how many episodes do we need to see flutter shy in a constant battle with over coming her name.

 

Hay why don't we ride Raritys flank to be more common and less regal.

Or Twilight sparkle for being less magical driven (winter wrap up),

 

Rarity has show (her sister episode with sweet bell) when she has to she can get down and dirty.

I don't think she wanted to LOL.

Just how I don't think  Flutter shy wants to be kick in the door kinda pony.

 

Hell pinkie pie watched paint dry for her friends in to many pinkie pies.

I assure you that's not something she wants to do as the norm.

 

where as rain bow dash.. um... um.... um..... um....has um... sacrificed something, something, something, i mean if you wanna complain about anyone,

that's who i would have gone with.

 

sides rarity can in manipulate circles around flutter shy, in that exact episode.

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I wouldnt exacty say it was her true feelings, was just acting on impluse from bad advice given from iron will. You know like when we're mad (most of us anyways) will say and do the first thing that comes to mind abd not think of the repercussions of our actions till later, while when level headed we can fully think out our best course of action. I believe thats all what happened to Fluttetshy there not her true feelings at all.

 

Why wouldn't you say that, exactly? When people are mad, they act on impulse and speak without thought...Yes, and? That in no way suggests Fluttershy's words were false. If anything, that lends credibility to them because she's speaking her mind instead of filtering it for fear of repercussion. People are at their most honest when they're not giving a shit about repercussions.

Edited by Koelath
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Why wouldn't you say that, exactly? When people are mad, they act on impulse and speak without thought...Yes, and? That in no way suggests Fluttershy's words were false. If anything, that lends credibility to them because she's speaking her mind instead of filtering it for fear of repercussion. People are at their most honest when they're not giving a shit about repercussions.

 

and I answered this by saying

"are you suggesting flutter shy is wrong?"

 

I'm asserting truth as a absolute defense to flutter shy's poor behavior.

 

that's something in her shyness,

she would never do.

and maybe why flutter shy is in fact the best pony.

You shouldn't wield truth like a broad sword cleaving through any and all in your path.

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Even if Fluttershy spoke her feelings, ponies (and people) can change. After the experience with Iron Will by the end of the episode, she overcame her weakness of not being able to stand up for herself and not being able to express herself. Fluttershy, Pinkie, and Rarity reconciled. Fluttershy obtained valuable life experience. Perhaps she doesn't have the same negative beliefs she had before. 

Edited by LED Dasher
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Some say that Fluttershy was out of character, when she was being mean and insulting Pinkie Pie and Rarity. Maybe her real feelings, aren't exactly negative at all but at least she resolved her issue and reconciled.

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I would imagine that, yeah, there was definitely at least an element of truth to what she said - but I'm not so sure it was really done in a "moment of anger"- more like, a "moment of not giving a fuck about my friends feelings".

 

Either way, she wasn't really exaggerating about Pinkie and Rarity's faults either; I kinda tend to believe perhaps they needed a good dose of uncensored reality, and Fluttershy certainly gave them one.

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I find it doubtful that she meant what she said considering the immediate regret she expressed afterwards. She considered herself a monster and went as far to restrain herself and board her house up to shield the world for what she perceived herself as. Really all she was doing was acting on what Iron Will taught her. In this case "never apologize when you can criticize" was the moto she was enacting. It was one of the first things she was taught. Considering how successful the lessons seemed to be it is more likely Fluttershy simply embraced the lessons without thinking of what she was truly doing. She was probably "high" on the new found control she had of her environment. 

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Um, maybe she prefers not to be assertive lol. 

 

Maybe, but that just damages her credibility a little further to me; I mean, if she can purposefully choose which situations to be assertive in, and which to avoid, it makes her pretty... hmm, what's the word... manipulative. That being said, I know that her shy personality is probably a firm reason as to why she chooses not to act on said assertion a lot of the time - I just dislike it when people disbelieve that Fluttershy can be mean, and sometimes even hurtful, since it's been evident that she had negative thoughts, just as any of the other ponies do. Doesn't make her worse, just equal, and that's what I'd like some people to acknowledge occasionally, just as I acknowledge that Flutter's shyness is most definitely a strong portion of her character and that would make it likely that she doesn't "speak out of turn".

 

 

 I mean seriously how many episodes do we need to see flutter shy in a constant battle with over coming her name.

 

 

Apparently more than we have as that necessary assertion never sticks around. No, I don't want her to be constantly mean and hurtful, but the necessary 'say no if you mean no' attitude has got to stick at some point. And, in most occasions, it's a major inconsistency. 

 

 

and maybe why flutter shy is in fact the best pony.

 

 

I sincerely hope this isn't all because you can't take some negative opinions on your favourite pony (or Mane 6 character, since I don't know you, and you may have another favourite pony, background or whatever). I mean, my favourite pony is Rainbow Dash, but I've participated in quite a few threads in which discuss her weaknesses and faults. Perhaps, if that is your problem - you don't like hearing negative things about Flutters, all because she's your favourite - you ought to be a little more open to discussion before actually participating in one. 

 

I'm asserting truth as a absolute defense to flutter shy's poor behavior.

 

Again, it seems like you're not being very open to discussing her weaknesses, but that's just my interpretation...  I mean, insisting that what you're saying in defense of Fluttershy is FACT ("absolute defense" and "truth", when the topic is clearly open) is kinda closed-minded to me.

 

Anyhow, I'm not fighting with anybody. Just wanted to put my opinion out there a little bit. ^^

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Okay i don't get this.
Part of being a good person (or pony) is knowing when to let stuff slide.  This is a hard lesson i continue to struggle with through my life.

Suppose flutter shy decided to be that person all the time non stop?

Oh wait we saw that LOL with iron hides help. 

 

 

Maybe, but that just damages her credibility a little further to me; I mean, if she can purposefully choose which situations to be assertive in, and which to avoid, it makes her pretty... hmm, what's the word... manipulative. That being said, I know that her shy personality is probably a firm reason as to why she chooses not to act on said assertion a lot of the time - I just dislike it when people disbelieve that Fluttershy can be mean, and sometimes even hurtful, since it's been evident that she had negative thoughts, just as any of the other ponies do. Doesn't make her worse, just equal, and that's what I'd like some people to acknowledge occasionally, just as I acknowledge that Flutter's shyness is most definitely a strong portion of her character and that would make it likely that she doesn't "speak out of turn".

 

 

 

Apparently more than we have as that necessary assertion never sticks around. No, I don't want her to be constantly mean and hurtful, but the necessary 'say no if you mean no' attitude has got to stick at some point. And, in most occasions, it's a major inconsistency. 

 

 

 

 

I sincerely hope this isn't all because you can't take some negative opinions on your favourite pony (or Mane 6 character, since I don't know you, and you may have another favourite pony, background or whatever). I mean, my favourite pony is Rainbow Dash, but I've participated in quite a few threads in which discuss her weaknesses and faults. Perhaps, if that is your problem - you don't like hearing negative things about Flutters, all because she's your favourite - you ought to be a little more open to discussion before actually participating in one. 

 

 

Again, it seems like you're not being very open to discussing her weaknesses, but that's just my interpretation...  I mean, insisting that what you're saying in defense of Fluttershy is FACT ("absolute defense" and "truth", when the topic is clearly open) is kinda closed-minded to me.

 

Anyhow, I'm not fighting with anybody. Just wanted to put my opinion out there a little bit. ^^

 

As for favorite pony,

personality wise why yes, i think she's the bee's knees.  If your big negative remark about flutter shy is she's manipulative,

well that's not exactly lowering her on my popular chart lol.

 

It doesn't stick around because simply put she doesn't like it.  Wait... your suggesting i can't talk about flutter shy's weaknesses?  *cracks a discord laugh.*  You mean,

you mean the fact she's weak and helpless?  Quote end quote.  Her words not mine.

 

I was being cheeky as far as absolute defense.  The best trolling known to man comes from truth.  Notice i said "as an easy cop out." when i brought it up above.  Just how i said you shouldn't wield truth like a broad sword.

 

If you wanted me to rag on flutter shy's faults I could.

She's gullible.  her friends know she's gullible.  The idea she's manipulative really shouldn't bother you that much, it's not as if it's hard for people to work (manipulative) flutter shy.

IN FACT (damn i'm good) the fact she manipulates back is her growth as a character.

 

did she do that sorta stuff when she showed up?

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personality wise why yes, i think she's the bee's knees.  If your big negative remark about flutter shy is she's manipulative,

well that's not exactly lowering her on my popular chart lol.

 

I'm not really trying to lower her, "lol". I'm simply pointing out necessary things, in order to, you know, move your discussion thread along a little bit. You opened it up, so you should then expect differing opinions.

 

It doesn't stick around because simply put she doesn't like it. 

 

 

That's rather pathetic, wouldn't you agree? "I don't like it, so I won't do it, even though it's totally necessary!" - that's her mindset? I mean, Rarity hasn't liked mud since square one, but she still got dirty for her sister - she didn't LIKE IT or particularly want to (for the fact of getting muddy, but rather to prove a point to Sweetie Bell). And as you mentioned beforehand, Pinkie didn't WANT to watch paint dry, but she did so for her friends. She didn't like it, but it was to prove something. 

 

The idea she's manipulative really shouldn't bother you that much, it's not as if it's hard for people to work (manipulative) flutter shy.

 

 

Yeah, but it doesn't mean they do. I know she has been a couple of times, but it's not as if it's a major recurring theme, and they often don't do it to get her to do something FOR them, more so WITH them (like Dragonshy for example, to deal with the dragon - they didn't make her go INSTEAD of them, they needed her there WITH them to HELP them - not to do their bidding). PYHO had unnecessary amounts of her being shoved aside, but that's because of the theme of the episode, and not particularly what happens on a regular basis as shown by the majority of the show. Yes, people know they can push her around, but it doesn't tend to happen very often.

 

(damn i'm good)

 

 

Are you really? Last time I read your response, it seemed you were closed-minded and kind of ignorant. But hey, at least that's been cleared up now. :)

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I don't think they're her real feelings, it's just what Iron Will taught her. Fluttershy just took it out of hoof and got carried away with his teachings. I don't think she fully understood how to use her new teachings. She was merely saying to herself "What would Iron Will do"  and did what he would do.

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I'm not telling you to worship flutter shy.

I'm trying to explain why she is the way she is.

I would not and even if i did i'm petty evil basturd, if i considered flutter shy pathetic that would be worth a warm bucket of spit.
And flutter shy does assert herself eventually.

Hows that any different from rarity eventually trying to win sweetie bell back?

 

I'm not really trying to lower her, "lol". I'm simply pointing out necessary things, in order to, you know, move your discussion thread along a little bit. You opened it up, so you should then expect differing opinions.

 

 

That's rather pathetic, wouldn't you agree? "I don't like it, so I won't do it, even though it's totally necessary!" - that's her mindset? I mean, Rarity hasn't liked mud since square one, but she still got dirty for her sister - she didn't LIKE IT or particularly want to (for the fact of getting muddy, but rather to prove a point to Sweetie Bell). And as you mentioned beforehand, Pinkie didn't WANT to watch paint dry, but she did so for her friends. She didn't like it, but it was to prove something. 

 

 

 

Yeah, but it doesn't mean they do. I know she has been a couple of times, but it's not as if it's a major recurring theme, and they often don't do it to get her to do something FOR them, more so WITH them (like Dragonshy for example, to deal with the dragon - they didn't make her go INSTEAD of them, they needed her there WITH them to HELP them - not to do their bidding). PYHO had unnecessary amounts of her being shoved aside, but that's because of the theme of the episode, and not particularly what happens on a regular basis as shown by the majority of the show. Yes, people know they can push her around, but it doesn't tend to happen very often.

 

 

Are you really? Last time I read your response, it seemed you were closed-minded and kind of ignorant. But hey, at least that's been cleared up now. smile.png

 

Sooooooo because flutter shy has made people to guilty to manipulate her and she can do it free rain she's terrible?
Pff one of the most beloved characters on the show "princess Celestial."  is all but the deity on manipulation,

I guess if your annoyed at the fact Celestial gets called on it more than flutter shy....
I concede your point?

 

And again her manipulation is her character growth.

Hell everyone thinks it's funny when rarity pouts or bats her eyes to get a stallion to do her bidding,

so why is the cuddly version of that a bad thing?

 

and I might close minded, but i can see flutter shy's faults. 
She's a scaredy cat.

You know when your a coward you kinda have to be a manipulative sob.

Ask any cowardly villain.

 

And one more thing I don't consider Iron hide a bad guy.

His leanings have the potential to go horrible wrong,

but that's pretty much anything^^

Edited by FNGRpony
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I doubt Fluttershy is manipulative. There hasn't been many hints on that. Fluttershy does have a job, it's taking care of the woodland creatures. She also has a chicken coop and raises pigs, for eggs and *ahem* truffles. Fashion and partying can make money but Flutters wasn't talking about money when she said pointless pursuits.

 

Taking care of animals (Fluttershy)

Planting crops (Applejack)

Researching (Twilight Sparkle)

Controlling weather (Rainbow Dash)

 

Are jobs Flutters sees in higher regard. I'm sure this is how she feels. But it's not to be heinous to think that way, all the other ponies don't care about the jobs other ponies do, I'm sure Applejack feels the same way about Rarity's obsession with fashion. The difference was Applejack didn't stomp all over Rarity's integrity. And to have someone they trust more not to attack their emotions like Fluttershy it would of been more hurtful.

 

Fluttershy had less experience with being assertive so she couldn't restrain herself.

Edited by ponies4fun
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Fluttershy was suffering from some pent up rage.  No, she didn't fully mean the insults hurled at Pinkie and Rarity.  To some degree, she was pushing their buttons in an effort to inflict pain.  She knew how passionate they are about dress making and partying.  She knew those things are, in fact, important.  So when Fluttershy lashed out, she hit as close to home as she could. 

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I like a lot of these thoughts. I agree with the idea that she is more manipulative than the others are aware but I would keep in consideration that a lot of people act manipulative on a subconscious level. Fluttershy might not even be aware of her own selfish motivations.

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