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Did Celestia Really banish Luna?


Zygen
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Now, up until the season 4 premier I had always kinda thought that when Celestia banished Luna to the moon she used some kind of powerful spell that she possessed or something, or it seemed to be a more accepted idea that she had more of a role in it, even if it was technically stated the elements were used.

 

However, in the flashback in s4 with them fighting and celestia banishing her sister, she essentially just uses the elements.

 

But the thing is the elements power pushed her to the moon, and imprisoned her there somehow.

 

But here's the thing, was that Celestias intentions? She never really stated she was going to banish her.

 

It seems to be like the elements have a mind of their own. Maybe Celestia didn't know that would happen, and thus that is the reason she blames herself for Luna's banishment.

 

But maybe Celestia isn't involved? It seems to me like it was almost like the will of the elements or something. Or does she control what the elements do?

 

What do you think? This has been something I've questioned since the s4 premier, so I wanna hear your thoughts, was it Celestias fault? Or the elements? Or are they interlinked in a way? Tell me what you think!

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Yeah, I noticed thAt. I think the elements do what's necessary to keep equestria safe. Banashing luna, turning Discord to stone. Turning nightmare moon back to Luna. I don't think the holder actually has full control of ex elements, just a very little control.

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I think Princess Celestia intended to banish Princess Luna, as she mentions a couple times during the Season 4 premiere that she "had to banish her own sister" and "you give me no choice but to use these," but I don't think she was able do this on her own. I think she was able to do it only through the aid of the Elements of Harmony.

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I feel like the elements of harmony are powerful enough to know what is best for Equestria. And you all are right. Celestia's said that she did not want to do this. But I feel as though she meant that as to use the elements of harmony against her. NOT Banish her to the moon.

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Good thread. :-) I agree a bit more with Blue Moon. Celestia may not have known exactly what the Elements would do, but she sure did after the fact. One thing, what happened to Luna was much more extreme than Discord getting stoned. Perhaps the Elements decide what the punishment would be, an interesting thought. It's also possible that the Elements knew it was Luna and the reaction was much more extreme because of her betrayal.

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Celestia felt that it wasn't right to banish her own sister, but she had no choice but to do so. She had to influenced under the use of the Elements of Harmony, since she would never want to banish Luna if she had a choice.

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As Love4Discord18 said, the element are probably the ones that decide what they'll do, and what's best for Equestria. I doubt the user would have complete control over the most powerful items known to Equestria, after all.

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Really I think its fairly clear that Celestia know exactly what she was doing. trying desperately not to do it. you can regret doing what is necessary and even hate it, but that is one of the costs of being a ruler you have to pick your people over even family.

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You could actually be right on that part. She was kind of new to the element's power and Luna's her sister for hell's sake, why would she do that? She could've just used the elements like Twilight and the others used them to kill her of her evil. Elements are weird.

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Well, it's not like the Elements come with an instruction manual, and the effects of them is ranged from exile to the moon (NM), stoning (Discord, twice), unstoning (Discord), trapping bodiless in an iceberg (Sombra, I'm interpreting as I'm still not completely clear on what happened there.)... huh. Every time I've seen them used it basically has *something* to do with imprisoning someone. Did I miss any? Can they actually do anything else?

 

Oh, yeah, the cleansing of Luna. Nevermind.

Edited by Fhaolan
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Hmm...It may be possible that Celestia purposely banished Luna...but for only the period of time till she was released. Perhaps she hoped that by then a change could spark and restore her sister to the way she was: the idea of a second chance. When she found Twilight, perhaps she had found a way to ensure such :) Just a thought

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Yeah, I noticed thAt. I think the elements do what's necessary to keep equestria safe. Banashing luna, turning Discord to stone. Turning nightmare moon back to Luna. I don't think the holder actually has full control of ex elements, just a very little control.

That makes sense. Kinda what i've thought to an extent especially since the elements seem to have very varied affects everytime they're used.

 

I suppose they might have a mind of their own so to speak. And can simply be wielded by someone to commit the will of them.

 

I think Princess Celestia intended to banish Princess Luna, as she mentions a couple times during the Season 4 premiere that she "had to banish her own sister" and "you give me no choice but to use these," but I don't think she was able do this on her own. I think she was able to do it only through the aid of the Elements of Harmony.

True, of course before banishing her she never actually said that was what she did. Its entirely possible she just knew something would happen and that it was necessary to stop her no matter what the elements decided.

 

Maybe she shows remorse later because she just knew the elements would punish her to a degree, but didn't know what, and is simply still showing remorse for having to have been the cause of something like that.

 

And i think its pretty clear, especially now, that the ability to banish someone isn't something she can do anytime she desires, like it is sometimes interpreted in different fan depictions. It seems that the elements are the ones with that power.

 

I feel like the elements of harmony are powerful enough to know what is best for Equestria. And you all are right. Celestia's said that she did not want to do this. But I feel as though she meant that as to use the elements of harmony against her. NOT Banish her to the moon.

Thats probably true, of course power doesn't tie into necessarily having them be automatically intelligent to any extent. But it kinda makes sense that they must have some kind of ability to act on their own. 

 

And her knowing something would happen, but not exactly what seems to make some sense.

 

Good thread. :-) I agree a bit more with Blue Moon. Celestia may not have known exactly what the Elements would do, but she sure did after the fact. One thing, what happened to Luna was much more extreme than Discord getting stoned. Perhaps the Elements decide what the punishment would be, an interesting thought. It's also possible that the Elements knew it was Luna and the reaction was much more extreme because of her betrayal.

Thank you, glad you like it :).

 

And yeah i can agree, i think that it was an in the moment thing that she knew that she had to stop her, and was willing to do whatever it took, in this case using the elements, which seem to have incredibly varied results. She may have known even less what would happen seeing as they'd only been used like once or twice before.

 

And thats an interesting theory to, that maybe Luna's betrayal turned her punishment more severe. Interesting.

 

Celestia felt that it wasn't right to banish her own sister, but she had no choice but to do so. She had to influenced under the use of the Elements of Harmony, since she would never want to banish Luna if she had a choice.

I suppose it makes sense, i mean either way i don't think she wanted to use the elements, regardless of if she knew that it would banish her or what she knew it wasn't going to be pretty.

 

As Love4Discord18 said, the element are probably the ones that decide what they'll do, and what's best for Equestria. I doubt the user would have complete control over the most powerful items known to Equestria, after all.

Thats true, i guess having total control over the elements would be dangerous possibly. 

 

Really I think its fairly clear that Celestia know exactly what she was doing. trying desperately not to do it. you can regret doing what is necessary and even hate it, but that is one of the costs of being a ruler you have to pick your people over even family.

Its possible i guess, its hard to say for sure since Celestia never really mentions what the elements will do to her or anything she plans to do with them besides use them before Luna being banished. 

 

At the very least she seems to know that it won't be good as she starts to cry while using them.

 

And It was necessary i'm sure to atleast a degree, of course i'm sure she still didn't like it.

 

You could actually be right on that part. She was kind of new to the element's power and Luna's her sister for hell's sake, why would she do that? She could've just used the elements like Twilight and the others used them to kill her of her evil. Elements are weird.

Yeah, i mean as far as we know the elements really were only used maybe like 1-2 times before they were used by Celestia to banish her sister.

 

And yeah thats another good point, doesn't make much sense why the elements "cleanse" her of evil one time, and banish her another.. 

 

Oh elements, you and your inconsistency's ;p.

 

Well, it's not like the Elements come with an instruction manual, and the effects of them is ranged from exile to the moon (NM), stoning (Discord, twice), unstoning (Discord), trapping bodiless in an iceberg (Sombra, I'm interpreting as I'm still not completely clear on what happened there.)... huh. Every time I've seen them used it basically has *something* to do with imprisoning someone. Did I miss any? Can they actually do anything else?

 

Oh, yeah, the cleansing of Luna. Nevermind.

True, That would be really cool though...

Kidding.

 

And just a side note I don't believe its stated that the elements were used on Sombra for sure. 

 

And the Cleansing of Luna one does make all the others even less consistent. 

 

Hmm...It may be possible that Celestia purposely banished Luna...but for only the period of time till she was released. Perhaps she hoped that by then a change could spark and restore her sister to the way she was: the idea of a second chance. When she found Twilight, perhaps she had found a way to ensure such :) Just a thought

Its possible, of course i'm not entirely sure if she can exactly just be like "1000 years of the moon for you...." 

 

Its possible though, maybe she needed an apprentice for that. 

 

A bit of a different discussion i suppose though, but yeah i get what your saying.

 

I just don't know if she quite had control over her years of banishment.

 

However it does appear she was aware of when it would end. So who knows.

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I think Princess Celestia intended to banish Luna, because when she banished Luna, she didn't looked surprise or anything, but then, Princess Celestia wouldn't have showed her expression anyway.

 

Also, she says in the episode, "You give me no choice, but to use these." which sounds like she was going to banish Luna.

 

I hope that makes sense o_O

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She cried, because she knew what happened to Discord. Being imprisoned in stone or in the moon isn't much of a difference, actually.

 

The Mane Six didn't look like they knew what they're doing as they freed Luna. What made them so special to free Luna?

Was Celestia even sure that Nightmare Moon didn't get a ticket to the moon again?

Discord was imprisoned on two occasions, but has never been brainwashed or something.

 

I think the elements have their on mind and imprison every bad guy. Luna was freed, because MANE SIX. Seems legit. :comeatus:

Edited by Gary S.
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@@Zygen,

Always to be left up to speculation I guess hahaha XD 

Yeah, guess so :). Maybe we'll get more info on them sometime.

 

I think Princess Celestia intended to banish Luna, because when she banished Luna, she didn't looked surprise or anything, but then, Princess Celestia wouldn't have showed her expression anyway.

 

Also, she says in the episode, "You give me no choice, but to use these." which sounds like she was going to banish Luna.

 

I hope that makes sense o_O

i guess, although after she was banished there wasn't much of any shots of Celestia, so idk if we know her reaction for sure.

 

It does seem as though she knew something bad would happen noted by her crying.

 

Which explains why she says that "You gave me no choice, but to use these." because she knew at the very least something would happen to her sister.

 

And yeah i think it makes sense :).

 

She cried, because she knew what happened to Discord. Being imprisoned in stone or in the moon isn't much of a difference, actually.

 

The Mane Six didn't look like they knew what they're doing as they freed Luna. What made them so special to free Luna?

Was Celestia even sure that Nightmare Moon didn't get a ticket to the moon again?

Discord was imprisoned on two occasions, but has never been brainwashed or something.

 

I think the elements have their on mind and imprison every bad guy. Luna was freed, because MANE SIX. Seems legit. :comeatus:

True, i guess in the end she knew Luna was going to get some kind of punishment.

 

The whole thing with Luna being saved totally makes the whole banishment thing even more complicated. Only thing i can think of is maybe by using the elements together it has some different effect? But then again Celestia and Luna used them and it turned Discord to stone, the same as the Mane 6 using it. Then another time they use it to free him.

 

I think its safe to say the elements don't have consistency, what exactly determines what happens seems to be up to the elements.

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I'd say yes she did. 

 

Because by all rights, the elements should have just turned her into stone just as they did to Discord

 

so either Celestia made the elements seal her instead. Or the elements did so themselves sensing her distress.

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I say it was intentional for her to banish Luna. The deciding factor by the elements though, *could* be how LONG she was banished. Of course she was in tears for banishing her sister in the first place, but perhaps she didn't know how long it would be.

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I'd say yes she did. 

 

Because by all rights, the elements should have just turned her into stone just as they did to Discord

 

so either Celestia made the elements seal her instead. Or the elements did so themselves sensing her distress.

True, of course the elements don't seem very consistent, even in the premier where they're used to "purify" Luna. I don't know if the mane 6 exactly knew the intentions to do that.

 

Its possible though, i mean its not like we have them chanting what they want the elements to do, so we don't really know their intentions most of the time.

 

I say it was intentional for her to banish Luna. The deciding factor by the elements though, *could* be how LONG she was banished. Of course she was in tears for banishing her sister in the first place, but perhaps she didn't know how long it would be.

I guess its possible, but idk. Seems like an odd thing for it to control. expecially if it doesn't control the actual banishment.

 

Its entirely possible though.

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But the thing is the elements power pushed her to the moon, and imprisoned her there somehow.

 

But here's the thing, was that Celestias intentions? She never really stated she was going to banish her.

 

It seems to be like the elements have a mind of their own. Maybe Celestia didn't know that would happen, and thus that is the reason she blames herself for Luna's banishment.

 

But maybe Celestia isn't involved? It seems to me like it was almost like the will of the elements or something. Or does she control what the elements do?

 

 

Yes, it was her intentions to banish Luna. She's not dumb, she knows what the elements do. She wouldn't use them on her sister without knowing what would happen.

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Nope. Celestia didn't banish Luna. That's just the "official story". Luna was hiding in Equestria the whole time. The moon banishing was filmed in a Foalywood basement by Stanley Hoovebrick. DUN DUN DUN! :muffins:

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True, of course the elements don't seem very consistent, even in the premier where they're used to "purify" Luna. I don't know if the mane 6 exactly knew the intentions to do that.

 

 

The difference here is those are the "new" EoH. recreated via Twilight's connection to her friends. its possible they maybe somewhat more potent at this point.

 

There is also the fact that NMM had been blasted once before and perhaps another hit was enough to free Luna from the jealousy.

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Maybe Celestia didn't know that would happen, and thus that is the reason she blames herself for Luna's banishment.

 

Maybe the reason she blames herself is because she is actually to blame.

 

Maybe she doesn't blame herself at all. We certainly get no big hints otherwise.

 

Ultimately though, it's Luna's fault for succumbing to corruption. And the Elements of Harmony, quite expectedly, do whatever is necessary to maintain harmony. In this case, that meant banishing the rogue element (I.E. Nightmare Moon) and I think Celestia knew it.

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My opinion on the matter is that Celestia didn't have full control of the Elements like the Mane 6 do. The elements work at full power when shared between pony, because in their world unity, harmony, and friendship are highly encouraged and bring forth the most power. Thus, Celestia, who had to take the elements Luna used, use them against her sister, and by herself, that is why the effect was different when Celestia used them against NMM and when the Mane 6 did. Reluctant as it may be, her heart was breaking in two to attack her own sister, so her heart was clearly not in it. The mane 6 on the other hand, didn't have this problem. They just knew she was a threat, and knew they had to work together to stop it.  So that's my take on it.  The elements only show their true power when shared between two or more ponies.

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Yes, it was her intentions to banish Luna. She's not dumb, she knows what the elements do. She wouldn't use them on her sister without knowing what would happen.

I guess its a valid point, however it could have been a desperation thing, where she didn't care what happened, she just knew she had to try and stop her.

 

Of course that would make her crying a bit confusing so idk.

 

Nope. Celestia didn't banish Luna. That's just the "official story". Luna was hiding in Equestria the whole time. The moon banishing was filmed in a Foalywood basement by Stanley Hoovebrick. DUN DUN DUN! :muffins:

Plot twist of the century ;p.

 

The difference here is those are the "new" EoH. recreated via Twilight's connection to her friends. its possible they maybe somewhat more potent at this point.

 

There is also the fact that NMM had been blasted once before and perhaps another hit was enough to free Luna from the jealousy.

Thats an interesting theory. And a possible one.

 

Of course i guess depending on how you look at it, purifying Luna could take more or less strength then banishing her to the moon.

 

But i guess its possible they functioned different after being recreated.

 

Maybe the reason she blames herself is because she is actually to blame.

 

Maybe she doesn't blame herself at all. We certainly get no big hints otherwise.

 

Ultimately though, it's Luna's fault for succumbing to corruption. And the Elements of Harmony, quite expectedly, do whatever is necessary to maintain harmony. In this case, that meant banishing the rogue element (I.E. Nightmare Moon) and I think Celestia knew it.

Well, she blames herself it seems to an extent, as the whole thing brings up bad thoughts to her, and she even says the summer sun celebration was a terrible reminder she had to banish her own sister. So i think she has atleast some remorse for it.

 

But yeah thats true, Luna did in a way atleast deserve it to an extent. And the elements did was was needed. 

My opinion on the matter is that Celestia didn't have full control of the Elements like the Mane 6 do. The elements work at full power when shared between pony, because in their world unity, harmony, and friendship are highly encouraged and bring forth the most power. Thus, Celestia, who had to take the elements Luna used, use them against her sister, and by herself, that is why the effect was different when Celestia used them against NMM and when the Mane 6 did. Reluctant as it may be, her heart was breaking in two to attack her own sister, so her heart was clearly not in it. The mane 6 on the other hand, didn't have this problem. They just knew she was a threat, and knew they had to work together to stop it.  So that's my take on it.  The elements only show their true power when shared between two or more ponies.

Thats an interesting theory, i thought about this one, in that maybe the mane 6 have different power over the elements being united compared to Celestia.

 

However, i don't know how they would know to have the elements purify Luna if thats how it works, instead of just banishing or destroying her, so it does get a bit confusing there since it seems the mane 6 don't know Nightmare Moon is Luna.

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