point on twilight, yay or nay (slice of life)

[FNGRpony 655]

 Brother tommy oliver expressed his distress,

 

that twilight because she is the friend ship master she's no longer going to be the driving point of slice of life episodes.

 

You know,

that doesn't bug me.

 

I like the wacky adventures.

At the same time i feel bad for reviewers like tommy and digi who got me into the show,

and i'm not going to turn around and go "GTFO!"

 

Like is this new direction to far?

Is my idiocy keeping me from agreeing?

I get their point, but it's not one i share.

[Scootalove 10,684]

Well, you don't have to agree with their point anyway. As for the slice of life thing, it depends on the episode really. I just feel that some episodes could show a realistic description of how Twilight should step up, and show everyone that she can make big decisions that she can be proud of.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Scootalove

[FNGRpony 655]

Well, you don't have to agree with their point anyway. As for the slice of life thing, it depends on the episode really.

Well what do you think?

How do you feel about season 4?

 

Do you feel a huge slice of life hole?

 

I for one love season 4 aka the discorded season ^^

it's chaos baby.  

[Scootalove 10,684]

Well what do you think?

How do you feel about season 4?

 

Do you feel a huge slice of life hole?

 

I for one love season 4 aka the discorded season ^^

it's chaos baby.  

I feel that Season 4 is a huge improvement from some of the episodes in Season 3. I don't feel a slice of life hole though.

[FNGRpony 655]

I feel that Season 4 is a huge improvement from some of the episodes in Season 3. I don't feel a slice of life hole though.

Yeah pretty much that.

 

that's all i ever wanted was "please be better than season 3."

everything after that is gravy.

[Emperor Posh 360]

I don't know why, but season 4 makes me feel frustrated. Yeah sure the episodes are funny and enjoyable, but I cannot help but feel like something is missing. I don't know what it is and It bothers me alot, making it hard for me to continue watching the show.

 

I cannot even say for sure that I feel frustrated.... I am frustrated trying to figure out how I feel about this.... I am so conflicted..... 

Edited January 1, 2014 by Emperor Posh

[Metemponychosis 1,236]

I think that Tommy is right. The problem with Twilight is not that she is an alicorn. It is that she is not doing stuff that is expected from a princess. She is just... there. Personally, I expected more after the huge deal that was her coronation. Of course, they are keeping her with her friends, but they are also failing in showing her as a princess.

 

Honestly, this is not the problem with the season. The problem of the season is that it's lacking the great slice of life episodes that made me like the characters. It seems that every episode turns into an adventure, except Flight to the Finish. Of course, keeping in mind that there are a lot of episodes to come yet. I want to see Twilight there.

[Nature's Spell 526]

This season is different and I'm honestly not sure if I like it or not, but my kids do, so I'm going with that for now. I badly want Twilight to step forward and be the Princess I know she can be and I'm going with my theory that until a 3rd party is around we won't see the Princess come out.

 

I'm not sure what's up with Digi, but maybe he's burned out from pony.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Nature's Spell

[Malinter 3,064]

Digi is really big on continuity, if a later episode somehow tied the weird comic, the shadow and flutters still having fangs  he wouldn't be so fussed. 

 

even so. were only what? 5-6 episodes in? theres another 17 episodes with which they can get serious and actually have an arching plot line IF thats what the producers are going with.

 

Even if they don't. I don't mind my pony with extra randomness, I can always turn to fanfiction if I want big drama

Edited January 1, 2014 by Malinter

[Argumedies 1,748]

I have to agree with him on this, season 4 has really been hit and miss with me.

 

I'm really disappointed with what they have done (more so have not done) with Twilights character and this is where I totally agree with Tommy on this but I do think they can pull off some adventure stuff at this stage of the game

 

Slice of life is great, but it does get old after a while, its time for some adventure stuff.

 

I like season 4 overall, only one I didn't care for was Daring Don't.

But other then that, I'm enjoying what I'm seeing

[Sir Wulfington 276]

I don't know why, but season 4 makes me feel frustrated. Yeah sure the episodes are funny and enjoyable, but I cannot help but feel like something is missing. I don't know what it is and It bothers me alot, making it hard for me to continue watching the show.

 

I cannot even say for sure that I feel frustrated.... I am frustrated trying to figure out how I feel about this.... I am so conflicted..... 

 

 

I don't know, I feel annoyed at how each episode so far, save for Flight To The Finish and Castlemania (the former of which I didn't care for because I found it to be meh), has had logical errors that I have to try and make sense of. I don't think I've managed to make sense of all of them yet unfortunately, and may be unable. It's gotten to the point where I'm now going into episodes expecting a plot hole or more, a mindset I've never had in all my time watching this show. I've only really enjoyed the two-parter premiere and Castlemania.

 

I think something's off this season, other than the plot holes. So far, in all this season's episodes, except for Flight To The Finish, the entire mane 6 has been present. Maybe this has something to do with it. Watching Tomy Oliver's video linked by the OP, I think I agree. The episodes so far mostly feel "meh", like if this was how the show was from the get go, I would never have become a fan of it. We used to have episodes that focused on slice-of-life stories about the character's themselves and their personal dilema's, I believe that's why I and most bronies enjoyed the show to begin with, it's why the show was interesting and watchable.....but now.....now I don't even know how to describe what we're getting other than "meh".

 

I think it's the focus on non-character based plots, but also one other thing: the mane 6 may have become flat. Seriously, how much of their personalities have been visible this season? At the very least, Pinkie Pie, for example, has been completely reduced to a 1 dimensional comic relief. It doesn't surprise me tho, since they're no longer focusing on character-based stories (save for flight to the finish) are now just shoving the entire cast into every episode (again, except for flight to the finish), and due to how short each episode is, it leaves them with not enough time to show off each character's depth, combine that with the focus on non-character related plots already, and it results in the mane 6 being reduced to 1-dimensional versions of themselves. They're now mere hollow shells of their former selves.

 

I think all of this, is the reason for the dissatisfaction with this season, at least for me. Perhaps it's the reason for most bronies as well.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Sir Wulfington

[FNGRpony 655]

Digi is really big on continuity, if a later episode somehow tied the weird comic, the shadow and flutters still having fangs  he wouldn't be so fussed. 

 

even so. were only what? 5-6 episodes in? theres another 17 episodes with which they can get serious and actually have an arching plot line IF thats what the producers are going with.

 

Even if they don't. I don't mind my pony with extra randomness, I can always turn to fanfiction if I want big drama

 

we're 7 episodes in 1/4 the way in.

and...

i kinda thing digi and tommy might be a little jaded.

 

hell the voice of reason, the alicorn of nit picking,

aka king crab ass is fine with season 4.

 

hell hasn't given a bad review yet for season 4,

which is kinda weird.

 

I might suggest something off,

but i think Digi and tommy are hanging around because of the patron program their running.

 

I can tell digi is dying to really open up his mouth more,

but he wants to keep his fans happy.

 

Personally i'm alot more blunt myself,

Digi is kinda surgical in his actions.

 

i'm more of a rusty fork.  If i had his views i would been alot more up front and brutal about it.

[hawkflame 3,308]

While I think Digibrony made some good points about the differences, I think that largely the quality of the writing has made me a bit more forgiving on that front. I admit that the feel is a little different, and as much as I loved Power Ponies it feels like it would be out of place in season 1. However, it was still so enjoyably written that I still loved it, and I think that's generally how I feel about the season.

 

He made one very good point, though, about Alicorn Twilight, one I was planning on making a thread about at the seasons halfway point if things didn't change. And that is, have they utilized Princess Twilight Sparkle effectively at this point? It seems like the writers want to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to her. They only want her to be a princess when it's convenient to the story, and when it's not, she's just a regular pony who happens to be an Alicorn. And yeah it's been like this since the beginning with the mane six and the Elements of Harmony, (they should be recognized as national heroes for defeating Nightmare Moon and Discord) but there was no status change associated with the Elements. With Twilight on the other hand, those wings are always going to be there. I'm wondering how she's going to be treated in the next episode in Manehattan. She *should* be regarded as some kind of VIP.

 

At the time, other bronies said that her princesshood would open up new directions and possibilities for the show, but we're not seeing it yet. So far the season is mostly fun, but with a lot of ponies ignoring the giant Alicorn in the room.

Edited January 1, 2014 by hawkflame

[Nature's Spell 526]

@hawkflame You're exactly right about the next episode being a major test of how they are using Twilight's status. If 3rd party ponies don't recongize her status as a Princess, even if it's not relevant to the plot directly, I'm not sure how we could continue to make allowances for the writers.

 

There are two other points about this. 1. Eps 1 & 2 pretty much established that being a princess won't be a thing between the friends. 2. Twilight be as unsure of her role as we are since Celestia hasn't had "the talk" yet about her duties.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Nature's Spell

[Sir Wulfington 276]

While I think Digibrony made some good points about the differences, I think that largely the quality of the writing has made me a bit more forgiving on that front. I admit that the feel is a little different, and as much as I loved Power Ponies it feels like it would be out of place in season 1. However, it was still so enjoyably written that I still loved it, and I think that's generally how I feel about the season.

 

He made one very good point, though, about Alicorn Twilight, one I was planning on making a thread about at the seasons halfway point if things didn't change. And that is, have they utilized Princess Twilight Sparkle effectively at this point? It seems like the writers want to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to twilight. They only want her to be a princess when it's convenient to the story, and when it's not, she's just a regular pony who happens to be an Alicorn. And yeah it's been like this since the beginning with the mane six and the Elements of Harmony, (they should be recognized as national heroes for defeating Nightmare Moon and Discord) but there was no status change associated with the Elements. With Twilight on the other hand, those wings are always going to be there. I'm wondering how she's going to be treated in the next episode in Manehattan. She *should* be regarded as some kind of VIP.

 

At the time, other bronies said that her princesshood would open up new directions and possibilities for the show, but so far we're not seeing it. So far the season is mostly fun, but with a lot of ponies ignoring the giant Alicorn in the room.

 

 

It's because the writers no doubt never wanted to make Twilight an alicorn princess, it was a cash-grab attempt by hasbro to have an excuse for alicorn Twilight toys. It felt so pulled out of nowhere, it never seemed like that was what they were going for. It kind of makes sense, that it's because she showed that she would make a good ruler because of how good a person she is, I guess......but still. It still feels contrived, because there's no point. There was never any feeling that they needed another princess, and Twilight never expressed any desire to be a ruler, so having this sudden reward for her friendship lessons is bad writing.

 

Also, why don't her friends get to be princesses either? They learned lessons like she did. Maybe Celestia can't turn that many into alicorns, but they could still be make princesses. I recall them saying they had this planned long before, but I don't believe it, hasbro wanted a new toy, they decided on alicorn twilight, and then forced the writers to make it a reality in the show.

 

Edit: It's also possible that they only had room for 1 extra princess, hence why only twilight became one. Still, my other points stand.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Sir Wulfington

[Nature's Spell 526]

It's because the writers no doubt never wanted to make Twilight an alicorn princess, it was a cash-grab attempt by hasbro to have an excuse for alicorn Twilight toys. It felt so pulled out of nowhere, it never seemed like that was what they were going for. It kind of makes sense, that it's because she showed that she would make a good ruler because of how good a person she is, I guess......but still. It still feels contrived, because there's no point. There was never any feeling that they needed another princess, and Twilight never expressed any desire to be a ruler, so having this sudden reward for her friendship lessons is bad writing.

 

Also, why don't her friends get to be princesses either? They learned lessons like she did. Maybe Celestia can't turn that many into alicorns, but they could still be make princesses. I recall them saying they had this planned long before, but I don't believe it, hasbro wanted a new toy, they decided on alicorn twilight, and then forced the writers to make it a reality in the show.

There is no such group as the "writers", with the exception of Meghan, all the writers are contract employees. Now that doesn't mean they don't care, or have input, but apparently they only get together once during the season to plan. We also have a lot of evidence that episodes are altered without the writers input, but we have no idea where along the line those changes happen: Meghan, the director, graphic artists, voice actors or Hasbro. Some writers have even said that sometimes the changes make the story better. Yes the show is about making money, but it always have been.

I also don't think it's helpful to keep talking about Alicorn Twilight. I could counter every point you made, but why bother at this point? All we can do is ride the season out and maybe many of us will leave the fandom by the end. All things change and maybe the fandom is at a crossroads.

[Nerdy Luigi 2,064]

In a way, I agree. She shows little of her personality anymore. Like Celestia.

[Metemponychosis 1,236]

@@Sir Wulfington,

 

When I found out that Twilight was going to be made a princess, I thought: "interesting". At first I saw it as a reward, but then I saw it as it really is: a burden. She has new responsibilities and I don't think that Twilight is the kind of character that would "abuse" her new status. Unfortunately, for Twilight and for us, until now, her coronation is nothing more than a few lines of dialogue because EVERYTHING she has done until now, she could have done if she never was made a princess.

 

What I mean is that Twilight is not a princess because she deserves. She is a princess because she must. She has been saddled with this new responsibility. The problem is that "the writers" don't seem to acknowledge that. Until now, at least.

 

Twilight now suffers from the same disease that kills any special moment Celestia might have in the show. In any situation she is near, a potential conflict would be solved by Twilight saying a feel words. But then it would kill the episode. Bats! is a example. Daring Don't is another. So the story goes on as if she was still Celestia's student, still learning, still acting as if she hasn't learned anything. Of course, they can't just take Twilight away like they do with Celestia, so Twilight never really grows or show that she has grown.

 

This is why, during MMC, and I've been saying this along with a lot of people, it was insanely stupid to say that Twilight is now in the same level as the other princesses, because the episodes will always show us that she is just not.

 

I was one of the people that was thrilled that Twilight would be a princess because I thought that the producers could make it happen. Of course a lot o people will read this and say that I'm whining, that I'm "hating" on Twilicorn... The thing is: people will like anything the show does because they already love the characters and the world that previous seasons already built. Just those people that have a critical view over the episodes will mind that Pinkie is acting more like an insane mare than a pony high on happiness.

 

About the other Mane Six being princesses, I don't know. I'd like to see them receiving some sort of official title. "The Mane Six" would have been awesome, the problem is that now the Elements are gone, they are nothing, just the princess's friends. And I HATE IT!

[Sir Wulfington 276]

I certainly don't want Twilight's friends to be princesses either, because, like Twilight being princess, they failed to make it seem like it was a reward any of them wanted from early on, and failed to make it seem like there was any point to having any more princesses, because it was never originally planned, regardless of what Meghan McCarthy or whoever said.

 

If becoming an alicorn princess was something Twilight wanted from the beginning, and they made us sympathize with her desire to achieve this goal, and than she finally gets it, that'd be great writing. But that's not what happened. She expressed absolutely zero desire to becoming a princess, and thus, I don't feel joy that she became one, and it begs the question of why she just instantly and happily accepted the role.

 

@Nature's Spell

 

You're free to attempt to counter my points, I don't believe you'll achieve that tho.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Sir Wulfington

[Phoenix237 353]

I really don't know how to feel

Except for Castlevania and Flight to the Finish the episodeds do far seemed out of place or the lessons learned seemed rushed or could have been handled differently

For example while I loved the latest episode where Flutterbat happens and I was surprised and excited, after it finished I realized that the episode made little sense. It seemed to me that the whole purpose of the delemia in the first place was just a means of introducing Flutterbat and nothing more.

Also as mentioned Twilicorn has not been fully utilized. With her new status new possibilities have been available but it hasn't been used yet. Even the comics, while barly mentioning it, still had more of Twilicorn's statu as a princess outside the opening episodeds. I feel that she is just Twilight with wings and not really learning anything, which kinda throws me off.

 

Now I enjoy these past few episodeds, I really do. But it's missing that element that made the past seasons great and memorable.

I don't know how the rest of the season will be, do I guess until we find out.

[FNGRpony 655]

There is no such group as the "writers", with the exception of Meghan, all the writers are contract employees. Now that doesn't mean they don't care, or have input, but apparently they only get together once during the season to plan. We also have a lot of evidence that episodes are altered without the writers input, but we have no idea where along the line those changes happen: Meghan, the director, graphic artists, voice actors or Hasbro. Some writers have even said that sometimes the changes make the story better. Yes the show is about making money, but it always have been.

I also don't think it's helpful to keep talking about Alicorn Twilight. I could counter every point you made, but why bother at this point? All we can do is ride the season out and maybe many of us will leave the fandom by the end. All things change and maybe the fandom is at a crossroads.

 

NONSense your destroying my mental image of the mlp writers sitting around like the legion of doom, with megan siting at the center all lex luther like.

(i like megan ^^).

 

I guess that makes marry weather solem and grundy.

Edited January 2, 2014 by FNGRpony

[Nature's Spell 526]

NONSense your destroying my mental image of the mlp writers sitting around like the legion of doom, with megan siting at the center all lex luther like.

(i like megan ^^).

 

I guess that makes marry weather solem and grundy.

Don't blame me blame

MA Larson Interview He talks a lot about the process and it's a messy process.

 

I'm not looking to convince anybody of anything and I do agree that the writers should be injecting something about Twilight's status into each episode. But right now I'm sticking with my theory why they haven't. Here's why I support Twilight or think it makes sense. A few reasons at least.

 

1. Lauren always wanted Twilight to take Celestia's place, but I won't define what that means. I'll just leave it there.

 

2. If the "big crown thingy" wasn't foreshadowing than I don't know what it would look like.

 

3. Twilight is Celestia's apprentice and normally the student becomes the master.

 

4. You know what happens when you want to become princess and you make it your goal? You become Sunset Shimmer.

 

Dr. Wolf has a great video on how Twilight became a princess and so does Digi.

 

Magical Mystery Cure explains exactly why Twilight became a princess. She mastered all the elements of friendship plus leadership. It doesn't say anything about her friends, but I would guess in the context of that scene they didn't master each other's elements like Twilight did. Being princesses isn't something you strive for it's something you are and have with in you. Her whole life was leading up to the moment she transformed and it was simply an acknowledgement if what she always was. The whole show is about making money and selling toys, but if you indict one aspect of the show for that, simply because you don't like it, you have to indict the whole show. You can't cherry pick.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Nature's Spell

[Sir Wulfington 276]

@Nature's Spell

 You yourself said Lauren intended for Twilight to replace Celestia, that'd be fine, as long as a good reason was given (such as Celestia was forced to step down, like if she died, and a new leader was needed and Twilight was built up to be her replacement if necessary). But that wasn't the case here, it was written as a reward, a reward she never wanted, not a role she was forced to take. That's the problem.

 

I also don't agree that Sunset Shimmer is the only person one becomes if they wanted to be princess, maybe in this setting, but in another setting, let's say Twilight lived in a crapsack country run by a tyrant and wanted to overthrow said tyrant and become ruler because her people needed someone who had good morals to lead them, than that'd be different.

[Nature's Spell 526]

@Nature's Spell

You yourself said Lauren intended for Twilight to replace Celestia, that'd be fine, as long as a good reason was given (such as Celestia was forced to step down, like if she died, and a new leader was needed and Twilight was built up to be her replacement if necessary). But that wasn't the case here, it was written as a reward, a reward she never wanted, not a role she was forced to take. That's the problem.

 

I also don't agree that Sunset Shimmer is the only person one becomes if they wanted to be princess, maybe in this setting, but in another setting, let's say Twilight lived in a crapsack country run by a tyrant and wanted to overthrow said tyrant and become ruler because her people needed someone who had good morals to lead them, than that'd be different.

I totally disagree with you and that's fine. Maybe one day she will replace Celestia, but a leader has to start somewhere. It be even more idiotic if they had her take over without some preparation. My point about Lauren's feelings was that it showed that she wanted more for Twilight and expected her to achieve great things. Since she left the show the how was left to other people, so you can't go completely with what Lauren said.

 

I don't see her being a princess as a reward. She was already princess material and the wings and crown just publicly acknowledged the fact. She's now a teacher of friendship rather than just a student of friendship. Being a teacher seems to be a major part of being a princess in Equestria. All three princesses are teachers, but Celestia is the most obvious. Luna taught Scotaloo and Cadence was said to teach about love.

 

The point about Sunset Shimmer was that her desire to be a princess, much like Luna's desire to be sole princess, corrupted them both and was the exact opposite of being princess. Both were redeemed in the end of course. I think the show is very clear what it takes to be a princess. You can dislike the logic but there is a logic to it.

 

 

You're welcome to think what you want. I don't think we'll ever agree which is fine.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Nature's Spell

[hawkflame 3,308]

4. You know what happens when you want to become princess and you make it your goal? You become Sunset Shimmer.

 

I don't see why wanting to become princess and be Celestias successor is a bad thing. The closest real world equivalent is wanting to become President of the United States.

Are there those who are highly corruptible who aspire to the position? Yes. Is it in and of itself bad? No. It's called ambition.

 

http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-awesome-things-movies-want-you-to-hate/