Were the writers forcing Rarity's generosity in Rarity Takes Manehattan?

[ghostfacekiller39 23,856]

Hm, yeah Fluttershy is another good example. She was delusional some of the instances, but it can't be denied that there have been instances where she really wasn't so nice. Don't recall any instance of Applejack blatantly lying though. I think the worst instance of her I recall was that ditching breakfast thing she did to Pinkie in The Last Roundup. She also lied in Party of One, but that was just to cover up the surprise birthday party so it didn't bother me too much. For the others, most of the time those instances were out of their control, and they weren't morally ambiguous. Twilight failing her spells and Pinkie Pie feeling sad wouldn't make you dislike the characters. Being greedy and manipulating others would though, and it's something Rarity has control over. I don't mean to make it seem like Rarity does this kind of thing all the time, but it is something that's been noticed and brought up by fans time and time again.

Jesus Christ...you want me to break out the list proving she's not greedy? Hearing her be slandered with that word by you is starting to grate on me, and I don't want to do it, but I will slam that down with my list I don't like bringing into the equation.

 

Saying vain is one thing, and she has been greedy, but not nearly enough to warrant it as a flaw, such as her vanity can be considered.

 

As for the manipulation thing you keep bringing up, earlier, I said to read upwards a bit, because I didn't feel like typing it out, but here I am again, repeating myself;

 

She doesn't use her manipulative tactics to achieve her own means; she manipulates when she's either in danger, or she's helping a friend, which, in turn, she always makes it up to the victim of her mindgames. (The asparagus thing? She repaid the dude his money he spent for it when they traded off, if you go back and take a look.) 

 

She's an intelligent pony; she's not a brute who fights with her hooves, she uses her mind, because that's how she fights her battles, much like Twilight.

 

Now, please be more open-minded on the subject; I keep reading greedy and manipulative, followed by "I don't hate Rarity." Sticking by your guns is admirable, but I don't think you're doing it for the right reason anymore.

 

Also, don't think I'm attacking you here; I guess I'm having trouble getting my point across to you, and I'm trying extra hard to prove that "Hey, she's not greedy, and her manipulation is also justified."

Edited January 5, 2014 by ghostfacekiller39

[Frosty Flurry 173]

Is it my opinion or is rarities "element of generosity " the weakest element?

Twilight has alot of magic skills, rd is exteremly loyal to friends, Applejack never lies, flutters is always kind and pinkie....that explains itself

But rarity in all the episodes i've seen is never really generous

JUst sayin'

[ghostfacekiller39 23,856]

Is it my opinion or is rarities "element of generosity " the weakest element?

Twilight has alot of magic skills, rd is exteremly loyal to friends, Applejack never lies, flutters is always kind and pinkie....that explains itself

But rarity in all the episodes i've seen is never really generous

JUst sayin'

This entire topic is about them over-doing her Generosity in the latest episode

 

So...

 

...erm...

 

Yeahh She displays her generosity quite well I'll even PM you all of the instances.

[Frosty Flurry 173]

This entire topic is about them over-doing her Generosity in the latest episode

 

So...

 

...erm...

 

Yeahh She displays her generosity quite well I'll even PM you all of the instances.

kk sorry i do tend to post things NOTHING to do with the topic at hand.

But please send away! I might not have payed attention to episodes that much so feel free to prove me wrong

[Megas 27,044]

People are always complaining that she's not generous, so they wanted to drill it in the naysayers heads

 

personally I never had a problem with how they portrayed her generosity in the past, and anytime people complained about her not being generous I just wrote off as a simple character flaw. And her generosity in this episode was really well portrayed, even if a couple of moments where I admittedly  I rose an eyebrow  

Edited January 5, 2014 by Megas75

[FNGRpony 655]

She has been that generous the whole time; it's just been much more subtle. It's been well needed because of all the arguments constantly attacking her for "Not living up to her element" when it's been there the whole time, just not in plain sight.

 

 

As for this, you're overplaying the times she's manipulated. First off, she doesn't manipulate all too much, so please don't make her out to be some sort of psychopath who uses other to achieve her own means. The few times I recall her being manipulative, she was either in danger or helping a friend, which, is generosity.

 

She doesn't as much manipulate as much as she uses her mind to fight her battles for her, since she's not a beat-em-up physical pony.

 

She has been that generous the whole time; it's just been much more subtle. It's been well needed because of all the arguments constantly attacking her for "Not living up to her element" when it's been there the whole time, just not in plain sight.

 

 

As for this, you're overplaying the times she's manipulated. First off, she doesn't manipulate all too much, so please don't make her out to be some sort of psychopath who uses other to achieve her own means. The few times I recall her being manipulative, she was either in danger or helping a friend, which, is generosity.

 

She doesn't as much manipulate as much as she uses her mind to fight her battles for her, since she's not a beat-em-up physical pony.

 

I think you over played people saying she takes advantage of the situiation which she totally did in this episode.

Go back to the hotel scene.

 

Okay i remember a child study if no ones aroud anda child falls down and scrapes his knee he or she will cease to cry if no ones around.

she didn't come in the room crying.  she waited for an audience.

 

She worked all 5 of her friends in this episode and what's more, they knew they were being worked.

they just didn't care cause they were he friend.

I'm not sure if i like that moral.  I wasn't big on this episode it tried to be a mix match up art of the dress and sweet and elite and ultiamtely ends up being neither as if the writers tried to pander to pro and hater factions of rarity.

 

That's confusing.  Hell i wanted to like rarity when she was being negative, but it didn't feel fun.

Because well, I know someone who acts like that.

 

it's not fun.  A little manipulation amoug friends is one thing, but it's when they bust out the "Go have fun my life is ruined" guilt trip...ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

which is exactly what rarity does, blah.

She's still not my least favorite.  She's been amazing in supportive roles,

i wasn't expecting alot because of that for his episode and it just didn't happen.

 

that being said still 4th best pony.

Edited January 5, 2014 by FNGRpony

[Champion RD92 8,653]

 A little manipulation amoug friends is one thing, but it's when they bust out the "Go have fun my life is ruined" guilt trip...ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

 

That's true, I forgot about that...and she treated her friends like crap and then was like "oh, what have I done?!?!?!  "

[FNGRpony 655]

 

...

 

Spike always volunteers himself to do that sort of thing, dude. He's whipped.

 

She isn't greedy, first off, and I can slam that down immediately, and I've already explained the situation regarding her manipulative tendencies if you read up a bit.

 

As a matter of fact, I've explained everything you've just complained about if you just read upwards a bit.

 

 

 

 

That's one of the most terrible defenses i've ever heard.

Period.

He's a baby dragon, but i can share that blame wth the whole main 6.

rarity has 5 able body friends, one of which is a world class athelete,

and another who was able to lift a carrage on her back, 

 

it's a real jerk wad move no one  offered to help spike so at least he could say "got it,"

 

I don't need to ride rarity (hah sounds like a column) for just that.

That's true, I forgot about that...and she treated her friends like crap and then was like "oh, what have I done?!?!?!  "

This i didn't get either when digi broney did in his review where "everyone here is wrong but rarity is a little more wrong for suddle reasons."

and I understand how with just a few differences rarity could been alot less of a jerk.

 

but how in the hell were her friends wrong?

 

I mean the closest to wrong was apple jack calling rarity out on her Bull shit,

and honestly that made me move AJ from 6th to 5th best pony in my book.

"you were pretty rotten"

and she poped that smirk even when rainbow tried to shame her down for it.

OOOO God that was awesome.

[Moonlight 7,279]

She's always been generous just not so "in-your-face" about it like this episode had. I thought the song was pushing it a bit, but it's been since season 2 since she has had any episodes and people were starting to think that she doesn't live up to her element all of the time (none of the mane 6 does that constantly). But still, I just thought of the episode as a nice way to show that she does live up to her element's name, generosity, even if she doesn't seemingly show it as much as the other mane 5. 

[M'gann M'orzz 745]

It was perfectly in character, Rarity despite also being egotistic and materialistic has always been exlemplified her Element, her entire life revolves around what it goes not only because she wants to look good but because she wants EVERYONE to look good and have nice things. So no contradiction between materialism and generosity there.

Really Rarity is a character you have to look into a bit to really understand and get, because she has lots of depth, her contradictions only add to that depth. She's not a character like Pinkie Pie or Fluttershy that grants lots of instant gratification but where there really isn't all that much beneath it.

[FNGRpony 655]

She's always been generous just not so "in-your-face" about it like this episode had. I thought the song was pushing it a bit, but it's been since season 2 since she has had any episodes and people were starting to think that she doesn't live up to her element all of the time (none of the mane 6 does that constantly). But still, I just thought of the episode as a nice way to show that she does live up to her element's name, generosity, even if she doesn't seemingly show it as much as the other mane 5. 

well i like the term show not tell,

 

now again to the rarity fans, this is more of a complaint about the writing staff that rarity, and yeah rarity is showing and tellling,

and i understand for the opening song, but i mean,

she set herself up to be disappionted thinking her generosity was quid pro quo.

 

It's IN her song about the city she expects karma to pay her back.

I'm like that to (LOL) so i'm not hating on that.

But i'm an awful person.

[Wingnut 6,722]

Was the generosity "forced?"  Perhaps.  But I had no issue with this presentation. 

 

There are two aspects to Rarity's generosity:  Material giving and self-giving.  Despite working in the highly competitive field of fashion and having a very thin profit margin, Rarity has regularly given away dresses and gems.  That's pretty amazing since there is no guarantee of long term success in her business.  The possibility always exists that a rise in costs and a decline in sales could force her to shutter her shop and leave her nearly penniless.  But Rarity's faith in her craft allows her to be generous with wealth.   

 

Instead, the area where Rarity sometimes struggles is in giving of herself.  Many times she has been forced to make difficult choices:  What does she place first?  Her boutique and social standing or her friends and family?    Rarity has been faced with that conundrum throughout the series and that was once again the case in Rarity Takes Manehattan.  But while she frequently hesitates to do so, Rarity ultimately places those she loves ahead of her fashion aspirations.  As others have noted, the rest of the Mane 6 don't always live up to their element either. 

[FNGRpony 655]

Was the generosity "forced?"  Perhaps.  But I had no issue with this presentation. 

 

There are two aspects to Rarity's generosity:  Material giving and self-giving.  Despite working in the highly competitive field of fashion and having a very thin profit margin, Rarity has regularly given away dresses and gems.  That's pretty amazing since there is no guarantee of long term success in her business.  The possibility always exists that a rise in costs and a decline in sales could force her to shutter her shop and leave her nearly penniless.  But Rarity's faith in her craft allows her to be generous with wealth. 

 

Instead, the area where Rarity sometimes struggles is in giving of herself.  Many times she has been forced to make difficult choices:  What does she place first?  Her boutique and social standing or her friends and family?    Rarity has been faced with that conundrum throughout the series and that was once again the case in Rarity Takes Manehattan.  But while she frequently hesitates to do so, Rarity ultimately places those she loves ahead of her fashion aspirations.  As others have noted, the rest of the Mane 6 don't always live up to their element either. 

 

 

Ha you just gave me the perfect metaphore for rarity.  she's a yo yo.  First the inhirit plumet fallowed by the scramble to do what should have been done in the first place.

 

Isn't that stagnet?  Isn't she not growing as a character because, well as people like to pick at flutter shy,

she's making the same boners so to speak?

[JonPear 209]

No, I don't think Rarity's generosity was "being forced" here any more than it was "being forced" in the Suited For Success episode, in which Rarity was being generous with her time and energy. This reprise, in fact, was basically a whole song about Rarity being too generous and accommodating for her own good:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcUD_e-rja4

 

Was that "Rarity's generosity being forced"?

Edited January 5, 2014 by JonPear

[crazitaco 596]

Ya know, that's what i thought at first when i saw the preview of the song. I thought "this feels REALLY forced" cause it was strange for her to suddenly be so over-the-top generous.

But when i saw the episode in full, i changed my mind. It all makes sense given the context of the story. They make it quite clear that Rarity felt a great sense of insecurity in Manehattan. She was in a situation where she is surrounded by strangers who are shady and may not be worthy of any trust. This isn't something she has to worry about in ponyville, given that everyone pretty much knows each other there. She knows that showing generosity to strangers can be a force for positive change. So, she was being more generous to make herself feel more at ease and give herself hope that the strangers there in the city might also show her kindness in turn.

Of course, you may have noticed a moral issue here and be asking the question "Is it really authentic generosity if you expect others to be generous in return?" This sort of thinking leads to one of the conflicts of the story; Rarity basically blackmailing her friends with her generosity. When Rarity thinks her friends have left her and realizes the purity of her friends generoisty, she realizes where she went wrong and tries to correct her mistake. So she learns that while being generous to others MAY lead to good things, its not something that should be forced or even expected.

So this episode had some HUGE character growth for Rarity. It was extremely well written and my absolute favorite of the season.

Edited January 5, 2014 by crazitaco

[JonPear 209]

Rarity felt a great sense of insecurity in Manehattan. She was in a situation where she is surrounded by strangers who are shady and may not be worthy of any trust. This isn't something she has to worry about in Ponyville, given that everyone pretty much knows each other there. She knows that showing generosity to strangers can be a force for positive change. So, she was being more generous to make herself feel more at ease and to be more hopeful that the strangers there in the city might also show her kindness in turn.

 

Wow, I can appreciate the song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms-3q2WaQI4 on a whole new level now

[Forlong 1,725]

I fail to see how being manipulative is somehow relevant.  Also, you are basing that claim on a single event in Secret of My Excess.  Yeah, you obviously have a clear idea of Rarity's true character. :okiedokielokie:

 

Rarity has been generous to everypony she meets: her friends, Fancy Pants, that stupid sea serpent, and even the Diamond Dogs (you know, villains).  It fits within her established character that she would be generous with strangers.

[FNGRpony 655]

Why do rarity fans feel this need to take any critic of rarity as a duel slap.

Personally I wether you like raritry more than spike or not, 
I just personalyl found it wasteful for spike to be eatinga gem.

 

I mean even if gave that gem to kimi sparkles i think it would be less annoying than seeing something that valueable so friviously wasted.
Spike doesn't need gems to surive, for all we know it might be junk food for dragons and just empty calories.

 

HOW DARE YOU CALL that see monster stupid. 

He's every bit as fabelous as rarity.  Which is why rarity kills him in comeradity is supernatrural (LOL).

 

and how was she generous to the diamond dogs?

she maniupalated them (which is fine)

but than she kinda did that to her friends in the last episode.

it was .... un coothful.

 

 

I fail to see how being manipulative is somehow relevant.  Also, you are basing that claim on a single event in Secret of My Excess.  Yeah, you obviously have a clear idea of Rarity's true character. :okiedokielokie:

 

Rarity has been generous to everypony she meets: her friends, Fancy Pants, that stupid sea serpent, and even the Diamond Dogs (you know, villains).  It fits within her established character that she would be generous with strangers.

[The Symphony of Discord 43]

She has been that generous the whole time; it's just been much more subtle. It's been well needed because of all the arguments constantly attacking her for "Not living up to her element" when it's been there the whole time, just not in plain sight.

 

This right here. Pretty much the entire reason why it happens. Personally, I think this is the best episode in the season so far. The others just came too far out of left field for me to really kind of "get"... The only other one was Daring Don't, but that might be more because we actually saw Daring Do.

 

Back onto the topic, this is the only episode I really felt was down to earth and more of a "slice-of-life" story.

[Motion Spark 7,806]

everybody that knows me here or at least remember about me ;_;, know that my favorite pony is Rarity and even for me, her generosity was a little exaggerated and forced, I have to agree with Champion here.

 

I've always been defending Rarity because of the high amount of haters she has complaining about she doesn't act like her element, and for me it has been more than clear that Rarity is indeed a very generous pony, she's the most generous of the mane6 even without season 3 and 4.

My opinion on her generosity may seem biased because she's my favorite, but for that same reason I stand my position, because I do pay attention to her character very closely when I see her on screen, and I admit that she's the hardest one to get from all the ponies, because her personality is so complex and that's why I love her.

 

Now in this episode, I have to say, that they rubbed her generosity all over my face that it felt very odd, because she's not that generous, in fact no one should be, because people can easily take advantage of you. And I'm impressed because Rarity seems like the kind of character that knows this very well.

At first, I thought that this was a way of the writers to redeem Rarity and show the fandom that Rarity is not what they think, but at the same time I think if they actually owe the fandom an explanation at all, but thinking about it, there's something different about this episode from most of the others episodes that we've seen in this season, and that's the story!

 

This episode is obviously connected to the main storyline of the show, while previous episodes has been, just filler...

And I was thinking about Rarity's fashion show, or the city of Manehattan, that I didn't realize that this episode was about being generous, the way it was delivered tho, was very odd, at least for me.

 

I would have liked, if they toned down the song, and also shown that Manehattan was full of mean and rude ponies before she started singing so it would have been clearer to me, that there were 2 sides. A side where Manehattan were unkind and the side of the mane6 and Rarity where they spread generosity and kindness towards other ponies. Actually that happened when at the end Coco was 'touched' by Rarity's feelings and she realized that she didn't have to be like everyone else around her if she didn't feel confortable. That part should have been visible throughout the episode and not just at the ending of it, even with the conflict that was in between.

[BlinkZ 1,151]

Yeah generous, sure,  Rarity is jsut being very Generous to spike to carry her bags FOR HER!!  stop abusing spike rarity, for crying outloud just stop.

[Motion Spark 7,806]

Yeah generous, sure,  Rarity is jsut being very Generous to spike to carry her bags FOR HER!!  stop abusing spike rarity, for crying outloud just stop.

I'm pretty sure no one cared about Spike in this episode, thanks for discovering America! we owe you one 

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

She has been that generous the whole time; it's just been much more subtle. It's been well needed because of all the arguments constantly attacking her for "Not living up to her element" when it's been there the whole time, just not in plain sight.

 

 

As for this, you're overplaying the times she's manipulated. First off, she doesn't manipulate all too much, so please don't make her out to be some sort of psychopath who uses other to achieve her own means. The few times I recall her being manipulative, she was either in danger or helping a friend, which, is generosity.

 

She doesn't as much manipulate as much as she uses her mind to fight her battles for her, since she's not a beat-em-up physical pony.

 

 

I agree, and adding something:

 

It actually makes a hell of a lot of sense for somepony's weaknesses and flaws to be connected to their strengths. I think it's awesome how they'd played her against type by making the kind of character that would usually be the villain in a girls show one of the heroes and made her the element of generosity.

 

It's also worth noting that flaws are what makes a realistic and interesting character. Duncan from Highlander is a good example: He's definitely far from a saint and has made horrible mistakes: but that's what makes him a character you latch unto. He maybe be an honorable and chivalrous hero: but he still comes off as human and fallible instead of coming off as this unrealistic standard of perfection that never messes up or does the wrong thing. 

Edited January 6, 2014 by Shoboni

[Hive King 1,998]

It was forced but needed. Thanks to this episode, I do indeed think that Rarity lives up to her Element.

 

One problem, forcing Spike to carry their crap. Kind of weird 

[The Symphony of Discord 43]

Spike's been the laughing stock of the script for too long! Was Power Ponies not supposed to show that he wasn't a pushover?