Annoyed at "Love and Tolerate"?

[Princess Periwinkle 3,774]

This thread appears to be related to the My Little Pony franchise and/or the Bronydom in general. Thus, it has been sentenced to Sugarcube Corner.

 

This is an automatically generated message, by the way.

[Sugar Pea 2,681]

Well, we don't really preach it just to look good or something. We use it against the trolls mostly, but people like to not go by it. That goes for here too.

Be careful what you preach, or it will backfire on you!

[Judgement 445]

We ALL love MLP, but I don't think anypony "Loves and Tolerates". Like others mentioned, it is mainly just a defense mechanism. Even though we take the phrase light-heartedly, many of us are kind to each other, even when we don't agree with others opinions. The MLP community, while not as "Friendly" and full of "Harmony" that we boast to the haters about, we are generally nicer of a community than other communities. The exceptions being the little things. I can't tell you how many bronies have posted hate videos about fox news because they poked fun at bronies on their show. I mean, our phrase, instead of being "Love and tolerate", should be "Forgive and forget" because that's what I wish we could do.

 

Maybe humans fighting with each other is just natural. I mean, when somebody cusses you out, even though you may want to say that you "Love and Tolerate" them, we all have the ability to hate. Forgetting about somebody is easier than forgiving them, but both forgiving and forgetting is easier than loving and tolerating.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Judgement

[Dark Heart 284]

No no, I think you misunderstood. I was trying to show how unreasonably some of these morals could be if applied to every situation.

 

 

And this does not work, because nobody would tolerate a Nazi, or a white supremacist.

 

The point I was refuting said that I "shouldn't let personal differences interfere with our friendship"

 

The point I was refuting said: 

 

See the problem?

Well as I said in other post, By saying nobody would tolerate a Nazi or White supremacist,  there are not the only groups that people wont tolerate, I think you miss what tolerating means, and people use it on the wrong way, cause like i post it, tolerate is

 

1. To Respect the rights (beliefs, Practices or others) Example of this would be my case: I am an Atheist, and i dont approve of religion, however i respect the rights of others to believe in it. See not "Approving" is diferent from not "tolerating", to me saying I dont tolerate it means you want that person death or none existente, but by saying that arent you taking hes right to express himself? 

2. Tolerate: is also to endure: whether we think of this as "tolerating physical pain" or tolerating what he says" its part of enduring what other people think of you if we choose the ladder.

 

Finally i think one thing to keep in mind is, that this phrase was born during the era of 4chan vs Brony's, because back then brony was still seem as creepy/taboo, but now that the fandom is "Official" and that the people following it are seem somewhat natural, I personally don't see use in this "Motto" other than what other members have said already, its to help whit troll's.

 

The way i took it when i first heard about was this, "We love the Show, its what we like, we dont spread hate or do harm, the least you can do is tolerate"

At least that's how i took it and i see it, many have their own interpretations of this but to me this is the more logical one cause its speaking as a Fandom "Motto" not a personal one.

[The Soldier 2,043]

There once was a phrase called "Love and Tolerate"

 

Quite useful for fellow bronies to dominate (the trolls)

 

But like the over-inflation of Germany after WWII

 

It's now as useless like a piece of poo

[Night Shine 767]

 

Love And Tolerate is a standard of perfection, a moral, an unreachable goal, an ideal. To say that "if you can't follow it perfectly then why bother" seems to show a lack of understanding in what this kind of concept is. A similar unreachable ideal is Kindness. I would imagine that few people would agree with this statement: "If you can't be kind to everyone then why bother?"

 

I am a huge supporter of Love And Tolerate--it's the reason that I joined this community in the first place; I've always been in it for the 'brony ideal'. However, that probably has a lot to do with my personality type last year when I joined the brony community (it actually changed since then--mostly due to the fact that I was sleep deprived all last year--but not by much):

 

 

INFPs have the ability to see good in almost anyone or anything. Even for the most unlovable the INFP is wont to have pity...[their] natural attraction is away from world and toward essence and ideal...The "object," be it homo sapiens or a mere representation of an organism, is valued only to the degree that the object contains some measure of the inner Essence or greater Good. Doing a good deed, for example, may provide intrinsic satisfaction which is only secondary to the greater good of striking a blow against Man's Inhumanity to Mankind.

 

 

 

 

TL;DR: No, I am not annoyed by Love And Tolerate and will not ever be annoyed by Love And Tolerate, because I see it as the Brony Ideal, the one concept that turns a "fandom" into a Community with a Cause.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Night Shine

[Static Electricity 729]

ideal.png

 

Love And Tolerate is a standard of perfection

Lol, nope.

 

L&T is not a perfect philosophy because it is not applicable in all situations, and it does not work because it fails to specify when it is applicable and when it is not.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Static Electricity

[Night Shine 767]

Lol, nope.

 

Clearly your opinion is right and mine is wrong. I may as well just stop typing now...but I won't, admittedly because I am angry. I apologize for that and I hope what I am saying will not be perceived as rude.

 

L&T is not a perfect philosophy because it is not applicable in all situations, and it does not work because it fails to specify when it is applicable and when it is not.

 

I never said it was a perfect Philosophy; I said it was a perfect Ideal. Not all ideals are applicable in all situations. Also, does Kindness specify when it is applicable and when it is not? No. "Kindness" is one word...but it is so much more than just a word. Is Kindness not an ideal?

 

Be careful not to take an Ideal at face value lest you fail to grasp its quintessence.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Night Shine

[Static Electricity 729]

I apologize for that and I hope what I am saying will not be perceived as rude.

No problem

 

Is Kindness not an ideal?

It is.. to an extent.

 

The problem with L&T is that it is too vague to be of practical use.

[Evil Nightmares 552]

I can't tell you how many times I've seen bronys preach "Love and Tolerance" and then turn around and shit on Cloppers. And there only excuse for hating on cloppers is, "They give us regular Bronys a bad name". While yes, this is a tired example, It's also an example that happens more often then you would think. I don't believe in the whole "Love and Tolerance" creed, I also don't follow it.

[Night Shine 767]

No problem

 

Thank God, this is a discussion and not an argument. xD

 

The problem with L&T is that it is too vague to be of practical use.

 

So is Kindness. It's one word!

 

Or is it?

 

What I'm trying to get at here is that the ideal of Love And Tolerance is more than just three words. Its implications--while subjective--have come to represent an ideal of how to deal with others who make you mad.

In my opinion, it comes down to people confounding Revenge and Justice. Revenge is "You did bad to me; I'll do bad to you" and Justice is "Something is wrong and I must make it right" (call me out on this if you have a different conception on these two ideals, by the way). Love and Tolerate is intended as a reversal of Revenge, not of Justice.

 

I should probably address your point more clearly...xD Summed up concisely, my point is that "Love And Tolerate" is tied to a bunch of different concepts, and to what it has come to represent, rather than to only its face-value meaning. It has come to represent 'fighting' trolls with kindness, even though one might not expect that if they just read three words. It has come to represent defeating Negativity with Positivity; fight fire with water, not fire.

 

Edit: Come to think of it, that last sentence probably explains the logic behind Love And Tolerance better than anything else in this post.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Night Shine

[Deesinn 393]

I'm perfectly fine with it, to a point.  If you go out of your way to disrespect another brony, or myself, there is no more tolerating, just ignoring, or if necessary, a physical fight.  If ponies are just making fun of you from far away and not right in your face, then let them, who cares.  I mean, if you strongly strongly strongly support love and tolerance, I say you're probably a little bit over emotional and insecure.  Know when to tolerate, and know when you fight back and stand up for yourself.  As for love, well, everypony likes feeling love, so hell, make love, spread love, be love, whatever, love is what drives people everyday of their lives, in some conceptual form or another.      

 

To me, there are no rules to being a brony, just being myself is enough. 

Edited January 15, 2014 by Deesinn

[Tigerpop198 696]

 

 

L&T is not a perfect philosophy

 

Kinda makes one think, really this is our catchphrase. I agree it's not close to perfect. 

[n00bert 18]

"Love and Tolerate"

 

These morals are taught in the show. The phrase itself is... meh.

"Tolerate" is redundant when preceded by "love".

 

What should the new slogan be?

[Deesinn 393]

"Love and Tolerate"

 

These morals are taught in the show. The phrase itself is... meh.

"Tolerate" is redundant when preceded by "love".

 

What should the new slogan be?

 

"Positive and Proud"

 

Can I hear a Nobel Peace Prize calling?

[Passion 3,478]

What should the new slogan be?

 

Best? None.

 

I'm somewhat tired of:

 

A: People following this catchphrase as if it was saint and spoke the holy truth.

B: People trying to bring it down with ridiculous extremes as examples.

C: People using it against others to win flame wars. (Saw examples of legit arguments being shut down by sentence: "Dude, you should love and tolerate, why aren't you tolerating my opinions!?")

 

It's but a catchphrase used mostly in incorrect ways now. Above all else, common sense should be applied when deciphering the message of the show, rather than blind devotion to a catchphrase which origin is questionable and meaning seems to be twisted to one's needs at any given moment.

[Static Electricity 729]

"Love and Tolerate"

 

These morals are taught in the show. The phrase itself is... meh.

"Tolerate" is redundant when preceded by "love".

 

What should the new slogan be?

Ponies and Beer? C'mon guys, back me up on this!

[n00bert 18]

Ponies and Whiskey?

 

This is the best catchphrase ever!

[Mr F 1,521]

I like "love and toleration".

The majority of bronies I know are nice anyway.

If it does not harm, don't mind.

[joecal97 340]

Ever heard of 'akuna matata'?

That makes less sense than 'love and tolerate'

And was still at the time seen by some as a legitimate saying, so whether or not it has meaning is a certain persons opinion, rather than a provable fact, I personally rarely hear love and tolerate used, and don't use it frequently myself, but it's use doesn't annoy me, so I'm fine with it use.

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

The show does preach love and tolerance, though.

Only to a specific point. "Love and tolerate" (specifically "tolerance") has never been a concrete message in the show. They're only implied, when the main purpose of this show is about friendship coming in all shapes and forms.

 

I do believe in love and tolerance as an ideal. Count my vote as a "yes."

It became an ideal, but not everyone does follow it, and no one should to a point. Also, it doesn't change the objective fact that it was founded as a code to countertroll anti-bronies on 4chan, and it's still used as such to this day. If it wasn't, then the three-year-old macro below wouldn't have existed:

 

 

 

We - bronies - should be loving and tolerant.

Fixed that for you.

 

If bronies should love and tolerate, it should only be to a point. There is a time and place to love and tolerate and not. The BS'ing from Gilda and Lightning Dust is not something anyone should love and tolerate because they both behaved very badly (and for the latter, to the point of nearly killing five innocent civilians). If any part of the show featured some terrible quality execution (and there's plenty of it), you can like it, but don't kiss up and ignore it; address it and criticize it. I, for one, only "love and tolerate" until I see someone crosses a moral peeve of mine, and my line is rather thin.

 

The big problem with your argument is the implied equation of tolerance equaling acceptance. Those are two completely different words with completely different definitions. What tolerance basically means is that you know that there's something you don't like out there, and you have two things to do: ignore it and move on, or do something about it.

 

@'s fantastic post really demonstrates the problem with the creed and offers a great solution.

 

When I see bronies espousing blatantly bigoted viewpoints (complaining about non-white humanizations, awful sexist jokes, etc.), it makes me wonder if they're even watching the same show that I am.

The prejudice is stupid and needs to call out, but to toss around the No True Scottsman fallacy is lunacy and kills your whole opinion. Bronies are bronies for one reason and one reason only: They're fans of FIM. You, me, them, and just about everyone else here who posted in this thread is a brony because we like like some part of the official product. No one's obligated to follow an unwritten "brony code" or morals from the show, including "love and tolerance."

Edited January 15, 2014 by Dark Qiviut

[Dr. Mechano 629]

The prejudice is stupid and needs to call out, but to toss around the No True Scottsman fallacy is lunacy and kills your whole opinion. Bronies are bronies for one reason and one reason only: They're fans of FIM. You, me, them, and just about everyone else here who posted in this thread is a brony because we like like some part of the official product. No one's obligated to follow an unwritten "brony code" or morals from the show, including "love and tolerance."

Every fandom should follow some tenants of basic human decency and not be raving jerks to each other. I'm speaking for the MLP fandom in particular because we're part of it, and because I do think the show conveys themes of tolerance and diversity. Obviously, the show condemns outright villainy, as should we.

 

It was never my argument that we should accept truly vile people, but that we should be tolerant and accepting of natural differences in our fellow human beings; Not judge or dismiss one another by race, gender, orientation, and so on. Since this sort of thing is fairly prevalent in a fandom I'm a part of, I do feel I'm being reasonable by speaking out against it, calling on MLP fans to exhibit tolerance in those respects rather than bigotry.

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

@@Dr. Mechano, FIM does reference tolerance, but not so extensively. The main theme of the show is friendship. They may have differences to solve, but that doesn't mean tolerating it extensively.

1. In LBYS, both Rarity and Applejack didn't see eye to eye at all and only got got on the same page when something bad happened.
2. Some of the upper-class folks in S&E didn't tolerate Rarity's friends and only did so after Fancy Pants publicly supported them.

"Tolerance" has always been a very tertiary message, whether you like it or not. Friendship and problem-solving via friendship are front and center throughout. There's a reason why "The Magic of Friendship" is an unofficial slogan in the product.

 

In real life, there are limits to one's behaviors and opinions before calling it out for being fallacious and stupid.

 

I, for one, only "love and tolerate" until I see someone crosses a moral peeve of mine, and my line is rather thin.

 

Call out the bigotry, as I do myself periodically. But don't imply how they're not bronies, because that's just absurd.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Dark Qiviut

[Dr. Mechano 629]

@@Dr. Mechano, FIM does reference tolerance, but not so extensively. The main theme of the show is friendship. They may have differences to solve, but that doesn't mean tolerating it extensively.

1. In LBYS, both Rarity and Applejack didn't see eye to eye at all and only got got on the same page when something bad happened.
2. Some of the upper-class folks in S&E didn't tolerate Rarity's friends and only did so after Fancy Pants publicly supported them.

"Tolerance" has always been a very tertiary message, whether you like it or not. Friendship and problem-solving via friendship are front and center throughout.

 

In real life, there are limits to one's behaviors and opinions before calling it out for being fallacious and stupid.

 

In Look Before You Sleep, though, the overlying message was that Rarity and Applejack could be friends despite their differences, without having to change themselves or each other for that friendship to work. That's definitely tolerance.

 

As for Sweet and Elite, that behavior was clearly framed in a negative light by the narrative, and was considered snobbery and elitism. It's comparable to classism in real life, and was not upheld as a good thing on the show.

 

I never claimed FiM's "main message" was tolerance, but I do believe tolerance as a theme is expressed consistently on this show.

 

Call out the bigotry, as I do myself periodically. But don't imply how they're not bronies, because that's just absurd.

 

I never implied they weren't bronies. I referred several times to "brony bigotry" after all, so I'm clearly attributing the behavior to members of this fanbase. What I am saying is that this sort of behavior should be called out and shouldn't be condoned; Which is something we agree on, anyway.

[SveciaDash 364]

Not quite sure how its annoying... its a great phrase to live by, VERY difficult maybe but its always something I try to keep in mind.

I try to follow it to the best of my ability. 

 

because at the end of the day I want to be a nice person