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Something that I don't get about Bats!....(SPOILERS)


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Near the end of the episode, Pinkie suggests that they get Fluttershy to use the stare on Flutterbat in order for Twilight's reversal spell (which seems to require that the target of the spell be focused on one particular pony or thing, hence why she needed Fluttershy's stare so that all the bats would focus on her instead of other things) to work.....which literally makes no sense. How could she use the stare on herself? Especially when she's in this feral state of mind, where she won't willingly use it, so how would they get her to? Also, she showed no visible evidence of using it.

 

In fact, it's affect on her was inconsistent to what the stare has been established to do, which is to control disobedient animals into doing what she wants (in The Stare Master, getting the hens to go back in their henhouse, to get the cockatrice to un-petrify Twilight and her chicken, and to make angel eat his food. What it did instead was scare her, momentarily shocking her, and then attempt to flee, but each time she tried a mirror was put in her face and she was momentarily stunned by her apparent fear of her own reflection. And since the stare has been established to only get animals to do what Fluttershy wants, this not only should've failed because there's no way she would've willingly used it on herself while feral, but also because, in this feral state, she obviously had no desire to cooperate, so how in the flying fuck was this plan supposed to work?

 

And looking back to the first episode where the stare was mentioned, Stare Master, Fluttershy herself says she doesn't really have any control over it, it just happens, so are we to just presume she learned to use it willingly offscreen? Even then, I still can't wrap my head around the logic here. She clearly never used the stare, but for some reason her reflection stunned her with fear so that she stayed focused on it long enough for Twilight to cast the reversal spell.

 

At best, I could write this off as the characters coming up with an incredibly stupid plan and it just happening to work but not for the reason they were intending (her focusing on her reflection not because she was using the stare but because it terrified her). At best.

 

 

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I didn't think the plan was going to work either since the last time Twilight did a spell with an infestation, the spell didn't work. Fluttershy mastering the Stare and having control of it, did make me question the episode but I ignored it.

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Yeah I never understood that scene either. Heck I don't even understand the logic the writer's are now using with Fluttershy's stare. I personally think they're overdoing it. It just seems like they are making her stare seem like more of an advantageous trump card for her in almost any given situation. It's kinda annoying.  -_-

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Well she became a bat pony, thus becoming an animal herself. I guess it kinda works a different way in the pony world. You can argue that they too are animals, which is true, but to them they are just like us humans...

So when Fluttershy became a bat pony from Twilight's mishap with the spell, since her stare only works on animals....you get the picture. By using the mirrors, they can make her stare into her own reflection stunning her long enough to change her back...in that mindset, she is unable to think and come to her own senses....so she was more confused to see her own reflection.

I don't get it either. >_< *rubs head*

Kinda hard to follow here....but i'm trying to explain this the best way I can without confusing myself. On the tip of my tongue.

Edited by Kitteh-Chan
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Well she became a bat pony, thus becoming an animal herself. I guess it kinda works a different way in the pony world. You can argue that they too are animals, which is true, but to them they are just like us humans... So when Fluttershy became a bat pony from Twilight's mishap with the spell, since her stare only works on animals....you get the picture. By using the mirrors, they can make her stare into her own reflection stunning her long enough to change her back...in that mindset, she is unable to think and come to her own senses....so she was more confused to see her own reflection.

 

That actually makes a little more sense surprisingly. Since she did become an animal(somewhat), she was just as susceptible to her stare as any other animal.  

 

But another thing I personally don't get is whether or not she was really mesmerized by her own stare or simply her own reflection. It's been a while since I watched the episode so I don't really remember. :P

 

But if she was just simply scared by her own reflection, that would make a lot more sense, knowing that Fluttershy would easily go into a state of shock and fear by the reflection of her scary batpony self.

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(edited)

Fluttershy is known to use the stare when she's aggressive. Flutterbat was aggressive towards the ponies.

 

But she was visibly not using the stare, and it only happens when she desires to get a misbehaving animal to...behave.

 

 

 

Yeah I never understood that scene either. Heck I don't even understand the logic the writer's are now using with Fluttershy's stare. I personally think they're overdoing it. It just seems like they are making her stare seem like more of an advantageous trump card for her in almost any given situation. It's kinda annoying.  -_-

 

 

I don't think the writers are overusing the stare, since she's only used it like 4 times ever and hasn't used it in a long while since Bats! (last time she used it was in Putting Your Hoof Down), but it already has been an overly-convenient trump-card in Stare Master, where she, Twilight, and her chicken were only saved from petrification (assuming there's no cure for it) thanks to her Stare manipulating the cockatrice into un-petrifying them. It was pretty much a deus ex machina there.

That actually makes a little more sense surprisingly. Since she did become an animal(somewhat), she was just as susceptible to her stare as any other animal.  

 

But another thing I personally don't get is whether or not she was really mesmerized by her own stare or simply her own reflection. It's been a while since I watched the episode so I don't really remember. :P

 

But if she was just simply scared by her own reflection, that would make a lot more sense, knowing that Fluttershy would easily go into a state of shock and fear by the reflection of her scary batpony self.

 

 I'd understand her being susceptible to the stare as a bat-pony, but the problem is as I've said, she wasn't using it, nor could she have. I just re-watched the scene and she was visibly shocked/scared by her reflection.

I didn't think the plan was going to work either since the last time Twilight did a spell with an infestation, the spell didn't work. Fluttershy mastering the Stare and having control of it, did make me question the episode but I ignored it.

 

It's an example of why the writers seriously need to have some sort of continuity guide for the show, something that they have to look through thoroughly in order to make sure they don't contradict existing lore/characterization. Either they somehow don't have time or don't care enough to.

Edited by Sir Wulfington
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It's an example of why the writers seriously need to have some sort of continuity guide for the show, something that they have to look through thoroughly in order to make sure they don't contradict existing lore/characterization. Either they somehow don't have time or don't care enough to.

I totally agree. The writers don't remember that continuity is needed to fix any plot holes in episodes that relate to each other, to not confuse how the characters are written.

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  • 2 months later...

There is also the "vampire" aspect to consider, since the word vampire was thrown around. Vampires do have problems with mirrors in folklore.

 

http://www.vampires.com/vampires-vs-mirrors/

Don't know why I didn't respond to this, guess it got lost in a flood of status updates one day. Anyway, that still doesn't solve the problem. I've no issue with her being afraid of her own reflection. I do however have an issue with:

 

-The fact that she now has mastery over her stare, despite it having already been established that she has no control over it, and that the episode never bothers to adress this

-The fact that, after having re-established that she can somehow control it now, her friend think that getting her to use the stare on herself will work, even though she's clearly in a feral irrational state and thus she obviously won't do it for them

-The fact that even though she's clearly not using the stare, nobody adresses this

-And finally, the spell itself. It's requirements for functioning should've been more....logical. Yes it's magic but still. The spell required that the subject have their full attention on something for it to work.....why? I figured the bats needed to all focus on the same thing, which still sounds silly, but why the hell did Fluttershy? Did she need to focus on a pony? That was never established, so if she needed to ust focus on one thing, why did it have to be her?

 

In short, the problem is that it's a disregard to continuify that she now can control her stare, the requirements for the spell are silly, and it's unbelievable that her friends would've tried to get her to use the stare on herself because they should've known that wouldn't work, they should've just found something to get her attention, like the giant apple, then cast the spell.

 

This whole episode is a mess, and there are still plot holes this season I've yet to fill in. But you know what? I think I've had enough, if the writers are no longer interested in telling a coherent story, than I'm no longer interested in being a member of their audience. I'm just tired of the bullshit lately, and even this isn't bad enough (tho it's so mind-numbingly stupid I feel like I wanna stop watching as a result regardless), I just see it getting worse, until it is bad enough.

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I honestly don't know, I didn't understand the mirrors at all, I must have missed Pinkie's suggestion. I thought maybe Fluttershy was just scared of herself as a bat-pony or something.

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I honestly don't know, I didn't understand the mirrors at all, I must have missed Pinkie's suggestion. I thought maybe Fluttershy was just scared of herself as a bat-pony or something.

She suggested that they get her to use the stare on herself (ya.......) in order for her to, I assume, focus on herself so the spell that cures her will work (double ya.......), so they used mirrors to get her to....use the stare on her reflection.......somehow, and she never even does it, she instead get's immediately scared by her own image. Ya I haven't seen writing this atrocious since one particular episode of the new Littlest Pet Shop (now that I recall, nearly every episode that I watched, all from season 1 might I add, was borderline-illogical bullshit in one way or another).

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I know you kind of already stated this, but my interpretation of the scene was that despite Pinkie's suggestion "the stare" wasn't being used at all, but was rather a springboard for Twilight's plan. She figured Flutterbat would stop and stare at herself in mirror, because she would be shocked by her altered appearance. It seemed to work out that way. I mean look at Flutterbat's face before the reverse transformation is initiated. Her mouth was gaping wide open in what seems like a mixture of confusion and terror, not a blank expression with glazed-over eyes like that of a hypnotic trance....Anyway, that's just my take on the scene.


She suggested that they get her to use the stare on herself (ya.......) in order for her to, I assume, focus on herself so the spell that cures her will work (double ya.......), so they used mirrors to get her to....use the stare on her reflection.......somehow, and she never even does it, she instead get's immediately scared by her own image. Ya I haven't seen writing this atrocious since one particular episode of the new Littlest Pet Shop (now that I recall, nearly every episode that I watched, all from season 1 might I add, was borderline-illogical bullshit in one way or another).

 

I haven't seen LPS at all, but I have to say this isn't atrocious writing by any standards...Why? Because reasonable doubt kicks in. It could have been explained better for sure, but you and I came to a logical conclusion based on the script. I hardly think that qualifies as atrocious writing, but you know what does? Fluttershy's and Bulk Biceps' roles in Rainbow Falls. There is no concievable way that all of the pegasi in Ponyville would be wrapped up in other activities, unable to compete in the games, and leaving the two weakest flyers behind. "But what if RD wanted to challenge herself?" is a common thought, but unfortunately this doesn't add up either by the mere concept of RD's dilemma. Based off the script, I can't find ANY possible reason to buy the Rainbow Falls setup, yet you said you could buy this scene in Bats! under a certain interpretation that the script and past lore don't go against in any way. Why not just roll with it?

Edited by DryColt84
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I haven't seen LPS at all, but I have to say this isn't atrocious writing by any standards...Why? Because reasonable doubt kicks in. It could have been explained better for sure, but you and I came to a logical conclusion based on the script.

I quite agree with you, although I think that it might have been easier to assume that the Stare actually was going to be used.  (I think your argument could hold more water if there was more of a pause between Pinkie's suggestion and Twilight's inspiration, but since it was rather quick I think it is easier to think that the Stare was actually part of the plan.) That's where Wulfington has his beef.

 

 

 

past lore don't go against in any way.

I don't see how your defense disputes his assertion that Fluttershy can't control her Stare at all. 

Edited by OptimisticNeighsayer
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(edited)

I know you kind of already stated this, but my interpretation of the scene was that despite Pinkie's suggestion "the stare" wasn't being used at all, but was rather a springboard for Twilight's plan. She figured Flutterbat would stop and stare at herself in mirror, because she would be shocked by her altered appearance. It seemed to work out that way. I mean look at Flutterbat's face before the reverse transformation is initiated. Her mouth was gaping wide open in what seems like a mixture of confusion and terror, not a blank expression with glazed-over eyes like that of a hypnotic trance....Anyway, that's just my take on the scene.

 

I haven't seen LPS at all, but I have to say this isn't atrocious writing by any standards...Why? Because reasonable doubt kicks in. It could have been explained better for sure, but you and I came to a logical conclusion based on the script. I hardly think that qualifies as atrocious writing, but you know what does? Fluttershy's and Bulk Biceps' roles in Rainbow Falls. There is no concievable way that all of the pegasi in Ponyville would be wrapped up in other activities, unable to compete in the games, and leaving the two weakest flyers behind. "But what if RD wanted to challenge herself?" is a common thought, but unfortunately this doesn't add up either by the mere concept of RD's dilemma. Based off the script, I can't find ANY possible reason to buy the Rainbow Falls setup, yet you said you could buy this scene in Bats! under a certain interpretation that the script and past lore don't go against in any way. Why not just roll with it?

Sorry meant to quote not brohoof. The problem with that theory is that Twilight never gave any indication that the plan was anything beyond using Fluutershy's stare against her. And I never said I could buy the Bats! scene at all, the whole episode pretty much needs to be rewritten (or retconned out of fictional existence, yes I know that's oxymoron).

 

As for Rainbow Falls, that's one of the episodes that I still have yet to attempt to adress, tho I'm not optomistic. Tho I have figured that it's possible Fluutershy and Bulk were the only available pegasi who were willing, I dunno. What's certainly not believable is how Bulk is basically a cripple when it comes to flying as it disregards two previous episodes (Hurricane Fluttershy and Wonderbolts Academy) where he's shown to be a competent flyer. That is a straight up continuity error, tho I'm not sure if it's a serious one.

I quite agree with you, although I think that it might have been easier to assume that the Stare actually was going to be used.  (I think your argument could hold more water if there was more of a pause between Pinkie's suggestion and Twilight's inspiration, but since it was rather quick I think it is easier to think that the Stare was actually part of the plan.) That's where Wulfington has his beef.

Ya. I wonder tho, did the writer just goof up accidentally, or just plain not care? I mean I may be able to believe he or she just forgot about the stare not being controllable from Stare Master, tho that indicates that the writers don't exactly have all their eggs in the same basket when it comes to keeping continuity in check, or even forgetting near the end of the script that, based on what had been estbalished in the episode thus far, that Pinkie's plan would never work......

 

........Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut..........would they not have thought up a way for her to, you know, actually use said stare on herself? Because, as I've already pointed out, she didn't use it. Surely, surely, they would have noticed that, as I assume they watch the full episode before it airs to make sure everything is right with it. And that should've made them aware to at least the fact that "getting her to use the stare on herself" is a massive plot hole.

 

So surely, they had to have been aware of this, right? Or does imply that they neither double check their finished work to make sure all is good, nor have anyone keeping track of continuity?

 

I just find extremely hard to believe that this just flew under the radar undetected. I dunno. Well, let's just put it this way: When you're at a control centre with one massive red button with a bright neon sign in giant letters over head that says, in full capitals, "DON'T PRESS THIS BUTTON OR LITERALLY BILLIONS WILL DIE", and it would require the full force of your body to press, and you fucking press it, than you're gonna have an exceptionally difficult time convincing anyone that you "didn't mean to :("

 

Or you're a white cop and you see a minority standing on the other side of the street, see him notice you looking at him, see him wave at you with a friendly smile on his face, and than you shoot him in the face, well, let's just say that I don't imagine you'll successfully convince any civilian witnesses that he was coming right for ya.

 

 

(on an unrelated note, I'm a butterfly now :-D yay)

Edited by Sir Wulfington
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You're not the only one with this question.

 

I am unable to come with a constructive answer other than just to go with it.

The show just decided to end the episode that way.

 

I'm just wondering what that fang will lead to.

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You know, about Fluttershy not being able to control the Stare... that's also kind of disputable.  Although she did say she couldn't control it in "Stare Master", it could have been just an excuse for not using the Stare on Opal, given her general passiveness especially in the early seasons.  (It's also kind of hard to say that Fluttershy can't really control the Stare when at the same time admitting its purpose is to control poorly-behaving animals, which I would believe has at least some conscious willing in order to happen.)  I think that as Fluttershy has learned to be more assertive and more inclined to be in control of her surroundings and self she has indeed learned how to control it, such as in "Putting Your Hoof Down" at the end. 

Edited by OptimisticNeighsayer
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You know, about Fluttershy not being able to control the Stare... that's also kind of disputable.  Although she did say she couldn't control it in "Stare Master", it could have been just an excuse for not using the Stare on Opal, given her general passiveness especially in the early seasons.  (It's also kind of hard to say that Fluttershy can't really control the Stare when at the same time admitting its purpose is to control poorly-behaving animals, which I would believe has at least some conscious willing in order to happen.)  I think that as Fluttershy has learned to be more assertive and more inclined to be in control of her surroundings and self she has indeed learned how to control it, such as in "Putting Your Hoof Down" at the end. 

 

This is what I meant by my past lore statement, I was just being lazy.  :lol:

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You know, about Fluttershy not being able to control the Stare... that's also kind of disputable.  Although she did say she couldn't control it in "Stare Master", it could have been just an excuse for not using the Stare on Opal, given her general passiveness especially in the early seasons.  (It's also kind of hard to say that Fluttershy can't really control the Stare when at the same time admitting its purpose is to control poorly-behaving animals, which I would believe has at least some conscious willing in order to happen.)  I think that as Fluttershy has learned to be more assertive and more inclined to be in control of her surroundings and self she has indeed learned how to control it, such as in "Putting Your Hoof Down" at the end. 

Maybe, still, even if that can be excused, the other issues can't, unfortunately. But them's the breaks, I suppose.

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