Philosophy: What does it take?

[AlicornAcolyte 254]

Oh, you never know when some piece of knowledge may be useful. There's nothing trivial about trivia!

[Steel Accord 6,658]

Well, my biggest hobby is learning! I buy about three books a week! It's really getting out of hand! 

 

I know that feeling. I hate when I have too many books I want to read and keep getting distracted when I actually sit down to do so.

[Nine 707]

@@Discordian, 

I've only bought maybe four games in the last two years and I finished one of them ..

I didn't even finish Bioshock Infinite and I was enjoying it.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

This is pretty cool! I wish I had a sense for entrepreneurship. It's like charisma or music sense: you either have it or you don't.

 

I'm just a lowly microbiologist...

 

All it requires to be an entrepreneur is to like people, and have confidence in whatever it is you want to market, even if it's yourself. 

[Discordian 6,013]

I'm not one for finishing games. I play merely to enjoy them. If I happen to beat them, all is well. If I don't, meh I'll get to it another day.

 

And then I buy more games and more often than not never actually get back to some games for years....

[AlicornAcolyte 254]

@@Discordian, thinking about what you were saying concerning video games and philosophy, the most recent game I played that really made me think was Deus Ex: Human Revolution. I had to pause the game and really consider the implications if it often!

[Discordian 6,013]

Deus Ex is another series I've yet to play. More reasons to get a job. Someone hire me. :okiedokielokie:

[AlicornAcolyte 254]

Deus Ex is another series I've yet to play. More reasons to get a job. Someone hire me. :okiedokielokie:

 

Lemonade stand? Tarot card reading?

[Discordian 6,013]

How about both?

 

"The cards have spoken, you will have this Lemonade at 1.5 times the usual price."

Edited March 30, 2014 by Discordian

[AlicornAcolyte 254]

Haha! You draw the 7 of cups, so they must buy seven cups of lemonade!

[Discordian 6,013]

"I'm sorry, I can't sell to you until Tuesday. Do come back again. You'll get a discount though!"

[AlicornAcolyte 254]

Haha! Hilarious! I think you have a workable business plan!

[Discordian 6,013]

The novelty won't last long though unless I expanded my product selection or something. Plus to make any sort of money I'd have to charge for the readings in the first place just in case they don't WANT to pay extra for the lemonade cuz the cards screwed them over.

[AlicornAcolyte 254]

People are credulous. You can convince them to hand over money for the reading as well as lemonade, as long as you're charismatic enough!

[Steel Accord 6,658]

@@Discordian, thinking about what you were saying concerning video games and philosophy, the most recent game I played that really made me think was Deus Ex: Human Revolution. I had to pause the game and really consider the implications if it often!

 

Without a doubt one of the best executions of meaningful philosophical topics in the medium! The original was groundbreaking and even the much derided sequel at least kept the tone even if it wasn't as mind blowing.

 

The original one was heavily focused on the concept of the Singularity, which I'm just going to assume you all have a basic understanding of. To which, the title could almost be changed to Deus Est (Machina). Would an all-knowing intelligence devoid of human failings be preferable as a benevolent dictator? The game oh so beautifully DOESN'T GIVE AN ANSWER!

 

The audience is trusted, like people, to draw their own conclusions.

 

Human Revolution, being a prequel, brings it's setting closer to our world and that makes the issues and questions it brings up far more poignant. Being a transhumanist myself, I obviously sided very heavily with any pro-augmentation factions; however some of the more subtle themes did give me pause. I was completely for auging up Jensen anyway I could and indeed did.

 

At several points though, I could have used the Social Enhancer aug to get what I wanted out of them. This actually caused me to stop and think for a moment. I obviously knew that punching out or killing the person to get whatever I wanted out of them was wrong, but wasn't using the CASIE only so far from subtle mind control? And all it took from me was the push of a button, for Adam, it likely only required a thought! It was just so easy to do that to someone, I would get what I need, and I wouldn't hurt them. All I would be doing was releasing pheromones to make them more suggestible. 

 

That makes it moral, right?

 

Any game that makes the non-violent solution actually seem more insidious is definitely doing something right!

 

@@Discordian,

@,

 

Four words.

 

Pet. Rocks.

 

Bottled. Water.

 

People will buy anything!

 

 . . . Angry. Birds. 

Edited March 30, 2014 by Steel Accord

[Discordian 6,013]

Without a doubt one of the best executions of meaningful philosophical topics in the medium! The original was groundbreaking and even the much derided sequel at least kept the tone even if it wasn't as mind blowing.

 

The original one was heavily focused on the concept of the Singularity, which I'm just going to assume you all have a basic understanding of. To which, the title could almost be changed to Deus Est (Machina). Would an all-knowing intelligence devoid of human failings be preferable as a benevolent dictator? The game oh so beautifully DOESN'T GIVE AN ANSWER!

 

The audience is trusted, like people, to draw their own conclusions.

 

Human Revolution, being a prequel, brings it's setting closer to our world and that makes the issues and questions it brings up far more poignant. Being a transhumanist myself, I obviously sided very heavily with any pro-augmentation factions; however some of the more subtle themes did give me pause. I was completely for auging up Jensen anyway I could and indeed did.

 

At several points though, I could have used the Social Enhancer aug to get what I wanted out of them. This actually caused me to stop and think for a moment. I obviously knew that punching out or killing the person to get whatever I wanted out of them was wrong, but wasn't using the CASIE only so far from subtle mind control? And all it took from me was the push of a button, for Adam, it likely only required a thought! It was just so easy to do that to someone, I would get what I need, and I wouldn't hurt them. All I would be doing was releasing pheromones to make them more suggestible. 

 

That makes it moral, right?

 

Any game that makes the non-violent solution actually seem more insidious is definitely doing something right!

 

@@Discordian,

@,

 

Four words.

 

Pet. Rocks.

 

Bottled. Water.

 

People will buy anything!

 

 . . . Angry. Birds.

The devil you know vs the devil you don't know, as they say.

 

But the question is: is it truly evil to be controlled without knowing so? If you are blissfully unaware, does it matter?

[Steel Accord 6,658]

The devil you know vs the devil you don't know, as they say.

 

But the question is: is it truly evil to be controlled without knowing so? If you are blissfully unaware, does it matter?

 

I've never actually heard that, but wonderfully put.

 

I guess that depends on who's doing the controlling and to what end. Adam Jensen, a transhuman, in pursuing the truth, would rather persuade someone to cooperate with his investigation rather than bringing them undue harm. That doesn't sound too bad, the lesser of two evils at the worst. Especially when you consider the CASIE aug only influences the person in the most subtle of ways, it's not a jedi mind trick.

 

The machines trapping humanity as a power source as seen in the Matrix? Hmmmmm I myself have wondered if they are really "the bad guys" in all of this. Agent Smith claims they created a paradise/utopia for humanity to live in, but we rejected it. I personally find that very hard to believe and one should consider the source of the claim. It could very well be that Smith was simply lying through his teeth and was just trying another angle to break Morpheus. So if the machines don't have our welfare or happiness in mind and are using the Matrix simply as a prison, then I would say they at least fall closer to being bad guys than Adam.

[Discordian 6,013]

I've never actually heard that, but wonderfully put.

 

I guess that depends on who's doing the controlling and to what end. Adam Jensen, a transhuman, in pursuing the truth, would rather persuade someone to cooperate with his investigation rather than bringing them undue harm. That doesn't sound too bad, the lesser of two evils at the worst. Especially when you consider the CASIE aug only influences the person in the most subtle of ways, it's not a jedi mind trick.

 

The machines trapping humanity as a power source as seen in the Matrix? Hmmmmm I myself have wondered if they are really "the bad guys" in all of this. Agent Smith claims they created a paradise/utopia for humanity to live in, but we rejected it. I personally find that very hard to believe and one should consider the source of the claim. It could very well be that Smith was simply lying through his teeth and was just trying another angle to break Morpheus. So if the machines don't have our welfare or happiness in mind and are using the Matrix simply as a prison, then I would say they at least fall closer to being bad guys than Adam.

When you mention it that way the Jedi do use a form of mind control, even if it's more persuasion than anything else. Even if it is for the "greater good" (sound familiar? )

 

Funny thing about the Matrix is that even if it is a "prison" for humans they are at least safe for the most part as long as someone like Smith doesn't go nutso and try to take over everything and every person.

 

They both seemingly benefit from the arrangement, even if it was forced. Humans are safe from the real world with it's harmful atmosphere and lack of resources, and the machines get their power source. Evil? I think that's up for debate. Technically the only ones even calling the machines evil are the humans who are disconnected from the Matrix. No one in there knows what's really going on but they live their normal lives regardless.

 

It brings a thought to my mind: Evil in this sense doesn't seem to ever be defined except by the vocal few who stand against it. If it weren't for those few people calling it evil, would it truly be considered so?

 

[Zekromic 1,054]

OH MY GOD, THIS ALREADY HAS 8 PAGES? W00T

 

Well, being a philosopher is not a standard, everyone has their own wisdom. HOWEVER, what every good philosopher MUST know in my opinion, are: 1. gain knowledge of many subjects and from many sources. 2. Make your own point of view. 3. Be confident in your beliefs and yourself. 4. Do NOT take tips from masses. 5. Question authority. 6. However, respect other's point of view

 

Reasons for each are

-1 & 2: Knowledge is power, the more knowledge you possess, it will be harder for others to manipulate you

-3: You can still be manipulated if you don't have confidence in your knowledge and yourself

-4: time has proven over and over and over and over AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRR again that masses are not wise, but stupid

-5: Since we are kids, others are already trying to to manipulate us, to tell us what, and how to think, to be one more of the lot, to be easily manipulable, to follow the powerful without question, to love something undeserving, etc.

-6: It's ok to not agree with a point of view of another, but always show respect, on every party. If you don't agree, express it with arguments, and if others counter respectfully with arguments, you all be more enlightened

 

[Discordian 6,013]

OH MY GOD, THIS ALREADY HAS 8 PAGES? W00T

 

Well, being a philosopher is not a standard, everyone has their own wisdom. HOWEVER, what every good philosopher MUST know in my opinion, are: 1. gain knowledge of many subjects and from many sources. 2. Make your own point of view. 3. Be confident in your beliefs and yourself. 4. Do NOT take tips from masses. 5. Question authority. 6. However, respect other's point of view

 

Reasons for each are

-1 & 2: Knowledge is power, the more knowledge you possess, it will be harder for others to manipulate you

-3: You can still be manipulated if you don't have confidence in your knowledge and yourself

-4: time has proven over and over and over and over AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRR again that masses are not wise, but stupid

-5: Since we are kids, others are already trying to to manipulate us, to tell us what, and how to think, to be one more of the lot, to be easily manipulable, to follow the powerful without question, to love something undeserving, etc.

-6: It's ok to not agree with a point of view of another, but always show respect, on every party. If you don't agree, express it with arguments, and if others counter respectfully with arguments, you all be more enlightened

Number 3 is something I definitely agree with. If you don't have confidence in your stance then at least be willing to change it should a counterpoint make more sense.

 

The best way to not only form your own view but understand your view is to fully understand other people's as well.

 

To understand one's enemy/opponent is to understand oneself.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

When you mention it that way the Jedi do use a form of mind control, even if it's more persuasion than anything else. Even if it is for the "greater good" (sound familiar? )

 

Funny thing about the Matrix is that even if it is a "prison" for humans they are at least safe for the most part as long as someone like Smith doesn't go nutso and try to take over everything and every person.

 

They both seemingly benefit from the arrangement, even if it was forced. Humans are safe from the real world with it's harmful atmosphere and lack of resources, and the machines get their power source. Evil? I think that's up for debate. Technically the only ones even calling the machines evil are the humans who are disconnected from the Matrix. No one in there knows what's really going on but they live their normal lives regardless.

 

It brings a thought to my mind: Evil in this sense doesn't seem to ever be defined except by the vocal few who stand against it. If it weren't for those few people calling it evil, would it truly be considered so?

 

 

Well that's quite hard to really make out. 

 

Not really philosophical, but an amusing literary allusion can be drawn between Milton's Paradise Lost and The Matrix.

 

The humans are waging a war against a greater intelligence that acts with the claim of their benefit in heart. They are the instigators of the conflict, so they could almost be said to be the source of evil in the Matrix. And doesn't One rise above them all and ends up facing God himself? 

 

"Better to reign in Hell, than to serve in Heaven."

[Discordian 6,013]

Well that's quite hard to really make out. 

 

Not really philosophical, but an amusing literary allusion can be drawn between Milton's Paradise Lost and The Matrix.

 

The humans are waging a war against a greater intelligence that acts with the claim of their benefit in heart. They are the instigators of the conflict, so they could almost be said to be the source of evil in the Matrix. And doesn't One rise above them all and ends up facing God himself? 

 

"Better to reign in Hell, than to serve in Heaven."

In that situation I don't think there is necessarily a true good or evil, simply two convictions clashing.

 

But that almost contradicts my first point.

 

Yay, not making sense.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Discordian

[Steel Accord 6,658]

In that situation I don't think there is necessarily a true good or evil, simply two convictions clashing.

 

But that almost contradicts my first point.

 

Yay, not making sense.

 

As I recall my friend, that is your entire shtick. 

 

"I'm sorry were you expecting consistency from the Spirit of Chaos? Ho-oh, how amusing!" 

*unscrews lightbulb takes a crunchy bite* 

[Discordian 6,013]

And the reason is because I know that there are many viewpoints to take and not any single one can be considered the only answer. It changes depending on the observers, those involved and even the circumstances and pasts of everyone.

 

The problem with perspective is that it is, by nature, a chaotic experience. It can change at the drop of a dime from one just tiny piece of information.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

And the reason is because I know that there are many viewpoints to take and not any single one can be considered the only answer. It changes depending on the observers, those involved and even the circumstances and pasts of everyone.

 

The problem with perspective is that it is, by nature, a chaotic experience. It can change at the drop of a dime from one just tiny piece of information.

 

For every five times you spout nonsense there is always one moment of surprising clarity and profoundness.