Triskie

1 hour ago, Ganondox said:

First off, try not insulting literally everyone else the thread by calling them idiots, especially if you want people to actually have a serious discussion with you. Your attitude isn't going to get your any respect, learn some humility. I'm pretty much going to butt heads with you now just out of spite.

With traits you gave for Starlight being autistic, yeah, *some* of them are actually autistic traits, but they aren't enough for diagnosis. If you pull enough autistic behavior isolated circumstances you could make most people look autistic. Aside from all the technical details, the key thing is that it needs to be pervasive in childhood, which we don't get as we only get brief flashback of her childhood. Now to detailed critique.

1. Not actually an autistic trait. The related autistic trait is alexithymia, which is difficulty in recognizing ones own emotions (not talking about them, which is usually more of cultural thing, though obviously it's harder to talk about one's emotions if you find it harder to recognize them and people don't like doing things that are hard), but not everyone with autism has it. More importantly, you're missing the real reason why Starlight doesn't like talking about her emotions. It's because talking about her feelings brings up her past, which she doesn't like talking about. If a trait is better explained by something other than autism, then it doesn't count as an autistic trait. As such, no go.

2. Neither of those instances where failings of Starlight reading nonverbal cues, but of picking up on pragmatics of conversation. Technically that's just as much of a trait of as not picking up nonverbal queues, but the key is that only with Twilight did she actually fail, and everyone goofs up from time to time (especially when they are incentivized to do so like Starlight wanting to go with Trixie). With Maud, it was due to Maud's monotone delivery that she didn't immediately pick up it was a joke, but she was able to piece it out eventually using the pragmatics.  

3. I'll give you that one. Still could be explained by dedication rather than obsession though. 

4. The only thing suspect is that she had no friends as a child after Sunburst left. Other than that she was just awkward for other reasons relating to her history. 

5. She's actually pretty in control of her emotions, especially compared to some of the other major characters. 

6. Not an autistic trait, at all. First off, autistic people are actually tend to be hyper moral, both from being very emotional and from being rigid in approach to rules, neither of which are "logical" reasons for being moral. Second, just because you can't see the reasoning behind morality doesn't mean it isn't there. Her behavior there was more akin to a sociopath. 

7. Nobody talked in her flashbacks. That seems to be the style of flashbacks in general in this show. 

As for your counter arguments: 

1. None of those things actually happened, at least not in the way you're trying to frame it. Also, it's not autism is really an adult issue anyway, it's been brought up on Sesame Street and Arthur, but thematically those are quite different shows from MLP. It's not so much an issue of child versus adult as fantasy versus reality.   

2. You literally cannot diagnosis autism if it's not disabling in some way, same goes for depressive disorder and general anxiety disorder. "High-functioning" refers to intellectual functioning, not lack of disability. Now, someone can be autistic and no longer be disabled by learning skills and growing out the label, and arguably Starlight was disabled as a filly due to her complete lack of friends, but that's another discussion. 

3. Okay, sure. 

I wasn't insulting, I was kind of stating a fact that if one person says "she doesn't have autism you idiots! She has schizophrenia!" Or something else with no proof, and another person replies "yes, she does! Stop hating on other peoples opinions!!!" Then its not a proper debate. Honestly I apologize if that came out wrong, but can you disagree when i i tell you thats not really a proper debate and shouldnt be referred to as such?

Anyway, I am very familiar with the symptoms of autism, thank you. I researched it (I research mental disabilities), before concluding that I have it, and getting myself a diagnoses, I continued researching it to figure out what symptoms I had and to specifically figure out what characters in my favorite books, TV shows, ect had it, so I think I know what I'm talking about. In fact, to make sure that I wasn't making mistakes with it I had multiple symptom lists, and checklists out while I was making that post. Although I do admit when I was making my original post I did make a big mistake in assuming everyone knew the symptoms as well as I did and I summed up a lot of them, using my own words, which may have lead to some confusion, so I apologize for that.

1. http://www.autism-causes.com/adult-autism.html bullet point number three "has trouble understanding others feelings, OR TALKING ABOUT THEIR OWN FEELINGS"

2. Well most of the fandom's knew that Maud wasn't being serious, didn't they? It was a very well read joke for most people, although I didn't get it at first, my niece had to explain it to me afterwards, but by watching reactions to the episode, and by the fact that my niece laughed, I chalked it up to my own autism, which is why this incident came to mind when I was making my original post.

3. Since you dropped this one I really can't say much, but yes, it can be interoperated either way.

4. Yes but she didn't have any friends other then Sunburst at the time. Have you ever met a little kid? Most of them have like twenty friends! In fact, that's one of the things that made me feel different in the first place, the fact that everyone around me for most of my childhood had 20+ friends and I had maybe one, usually less then that, though. And after I lost my one friend, I couldn't make more, and, in all honesty that's the first thing that made the doctor i was talking to about it take me seriously, in fact, the symptoms listed here were all it took to get my girlfriend diagnosed, so your earlier statement about how "they aren't enough for a diagnoses" is incorrect.

5. Remember that time when she enslaved a village because her friend moved away? Which she did because she was hurt, and emotional? I mean that has to be the overreaction of the century, and, actually, a lot of the fandom called her out on how unjustified that was.

6. That's actually a very well known symptoms, it appeared on most checklists and symptom lists I looked at, but, as I said earlier, since I am so familiar with these symptoms I didn't exactly quote it word for word. I won't go back to the symptom lists and check right now, but I will try to rephrase this. They prefer logic over emotion? Usually look at things from a logical standpoint? Ect? If you still don't ecognize the symptom I l will go back and look after you reply.

7. I know, like I said that was a very weak argument on my part.

1. OK, can you at least admit that the lesbian couple is canon? I mean, come on, how much more obvious does the show need to make it? And, that post wasn't directed towards you in particular, my friend brought up to me that autism was an adult topic, and I have seen people say it before, so I felt the need to mention it. 

2. My point wasn't that it doesn't affect the autistic person, it was that they can seem normal. I have a job as a science teacher, I have custody over my two nieces and my nephew (long story, don't need to get into it) I live in a nice house that I bought with my girlfriend and I can go out in social situations and be fine. And yet, it was very possible to diagnose me. And, fun fact, seeming less autistic due to learning doesn't make you any less autistic considering there's all light and sound sensitivity and need to stim ect. I could, if Itry, find some instance of Starlight stimming (or at least something similar/appearing to be doing stim like behavior weather she  is or not) and its not really easy to prove the light/noise sensitivity.

Starlight is so adorable, but the MOST adorable pony is definitely Trixie like holy shit look at that adorable beanbag (idk why I called her a beanbag)

They have already gotten as close as they could manage to get to a suicide attempt with that one time with Trixie, and honestly they didn't even address that in the show, it was just kinda glossed over.

I thought she was handling the gift for their wedding. Remember the episode "Slice of life" where Luna said "I handled the gift for Cadence and Shining Armour"? 

Honestly? I never really cared for a while. Up until season six I didn't love her or anything, her personality didn't really grow on me, but, I didn't hate her because holy shit why is she treated as an antagonist? I swear if I had a dollar for every time she was caller "evil" or a "villain" or "antagonist" when she wasn't, really I'd be rich. In her first appearance she...did her job and got thrown out of town because someone whom could have easily ignored her decided to heckle her show and throw her out of town, in her second appearance she wasnt acting of her own free will, in the movie she was under a spell, so why was she considered a villain again? At this point all you need to do to become a villain is dislike Twilight, even if its justified! But, again, she never really grew on me, and I kinda disliked her because she was so hyped up, and yet, I just couldn't see why. Anyway, when she befriended Starlight that changed for me! She first caught my attention for the possible suicide attempt, then I started shipping her with starlight, then her personality actually became endearing instead of annoying and holy shit when she's not beind mind controlled preforming she's absolutely adorable! I think I never loved her before that because...she was never just herself! She was always under a spell, or preforming, and though it was a minor one, the slight change in her personality just made me love her to bits!

OK so I'm seeing everyone who is posting here either being a whiny idiot going "nuu she's not autistic!" For the reason of either A. The show would never do thattt. B. She has schizophrenia/she's a psychopath and/or a sociopath! Or, my personal favorite C. I don't have a reason just trust me. Then some equally whiny idiots respond by personally insulting them, and/or saying "yes she is autistic!" With no real reasons or counter argument, then both sides have the audacity to call it a debate! Anyway, I do believe Starlight is very autistic and here i will go over the symptoms she has, examples of said symptoms, and some counterpoints for those who are actually interested in debating the point, actually want to know if she's autistic, or are just open minded enought to listen to the other sides opinions instead of "debating" like a bunch of five year olds.

Symptoms and examples~

1. "Has trouble talking about feelings" 

Let's talk about this one. While most characters in the show will talk about their feelings at the drop of a hat, Starlight has to be pushed. Back when she was evil she would reject any opening to talk about her feelings that was offered to her, unlike most of the villains, and other characters who would easily open up. In the season six finale she had to be told to tell the mane six what was wrong by Luna, and in the episode Rock solid friendship she said "I feel like I don't want to talk about feelings"

2. Fails to understand jokes/sarcasm/vocal hints/body language

Let's go back to the season six finale, shall we? When Twilight hints that Starlight should take her to the Sunset festival, which was obvious to not only the viewers, but to Spike too, Starlight didn't understand, and decided to take Trixie instead. Again in the episode Rock solid friendship, Starlight doesn't know when Maud is messing with her about "being able to take over equestria with the right rock"

3. Good at one (or very few) things and not much else.

She's insanely good at magic. Like, she can match an alicorn princess. She studied one spell for years, its her cutiemark, and she's very op at it. But, tell me...is she really that good at much else?

4. Difficult to make friends.

In the episode No second prances it is very challenging for Starlight to make friends. She relies on magic, the one thing she's good at, to help her with continuing the conversations as well. And remember in the season six premiere when she was reunited with Sunburst? She could hardly keep the conversation with him going, and, while this could just be chalked up to the fact that they haven't talked I'm so long and ya, reuniting with a friend can be awkward, that's not the only time she's behaved like this. In fact, as a child she only had ONE friend and became VERY emotionally attached to him.

5. Lack of emotional control

Ohohoh THIS is a big one! Look at the reason she became evil in the first place. Her friend moved away, seriously? Some might say that this was a bit over dramatic? Or, well, more then a bit I'd say! But honestly? Autistic people overreact all the time! Well..usually they don't result to creating a creepy communist cult, but..you get the point

6. Sees logic over morals

Like in the episode Every little thing she does. When asked about her behavior she didn't think about how mind controlling people is wrong, she thought about how her spell had turned out wrong. She was genuinely missing the point! She wasn't being devious or avoiding the fact that she did something wrong, she genuinely had no idea that what she did was wrong, and, throughout the episode she was freaking out, but not because she mind controlled her friends into doing her bidding, but because twilight would be mad that she failed.

7. Delay in learning to talk and is often silent.

Now, look this isn't set in stone at all. In fact, this is a VERY weak argument, but its still existent, so i will talk about it. In the flashbacks we see to when she was a filly, she never spoke, not even in the moments where it would have been very appropriate for her to have spoken, and currently in a lot of her appearances she hasnt talked, even though she's a main character now she still doesn't talk all that often.

OK now let's see some counter arguments!

1. "This is a KIDS show, Sarah they wouldn't put an autistic pony in the show!" 

Well, they put a lot of other things in the show that normally wouldn't be in a kids show. For example the lesbian couple of Lyra and Bon Bon, that time Luna was self harming, or when Trixie tried to kill herself. None of those would normally be in a kids show, yet here we are.

2. "Well, she can actually function properly!"

Its called high functioning autism. I have it, for example and I actually live a mostly normal life! Now, look you have to remember that she's autistic, not mentally retarded. For example, you wouldn't say "she can't have depression" or "she can't have anxiety" because she can function, would you? NO of course you wouldn't, why? Because you understand that some mentally challenged people can function, and some cant, and that's just how things are, mental issues aren't all black and white. People aren't either neurotypical or unable to function, and you can't wrap up and put a pretty little bow on what autism is and how people with autism, or any mental disability for that matter, function or act.

3. "Shes not autistic in cannon so you can't say she is or isn't!"

Has that stopped the fandom before? Did that stop the fandom from saying "yes Lyra and bon bon are a couple"? Did that stop them from saying " yes Scootaloo is an orphan"? Or that "yes, Octavia and Vynle are roommates" despite there being little to no evidence? And tell me, did that stop the people working on the show from making it true? The fans accept non-cannon things as true all the time, and what's more, the show staff listen! I mean, do you really think when they were creating these characters that Derpy loved muffuns, or that Vinyls and Octavia were roommates, or that Lyra and Bon Bon were a couple? Do you really think that any of that was intentional?  Of course not! But guess what? The fandom made it happen. And guess what else? If you asked they'd say "yes, of course its true!" Not "well it isn't cannon.." And honestly think to yourself "would I say that about something I liked that the fandom made?" Remember, dont be a hippocrate. Don't just accept that Scootaloo is an orphan then say Starlight isn't autistic because its not cannon!

So that's the end of my rant. For anyone who wants to have a debate, and by debate I mean a friendly, respectful debate where we won't just call each other idiots, but instead give proof, facts, and possibly reach a conclusion or just agree to disagree, then bring it on!

Does it matter? They're going to be sidekicks who are overshadowed by Starlight.

Then again they're probably going to be getting more screen time than the Remane 5 have been given in the last three two-parters combined. 

They were not overshadowed at all...In fact the only one who was overshadowed was Thorax really and he was overshadowed by how brilliant the other 3 played off each other

I don't know what you think Trixies cutiemark means but she's a a magician! They refer to her as a magician! Her cutiemark is a magic wand which are btw associated with fake magic. She has only ever been able to levitate things and any other magic she preforms is mainly smoke and mirrors. According to Twilight in the episode Boast Busters unicorns have only basic levitation and specific spells they can cast based off of their cutiemarks. Trixies lack of magical talent is understandable when you look at what her cutiemark is. The only time she shows a talent for real magic outside of levitationwas in Magic Duel when she had a magical amulet to give her all the power she needs...

Heres a real world example of what your doing with this post.

You look at someone who needs glasses and say "Well her entire person is ruined because earlier she could see just fine!" and then proceeding to go "I know she has bad eye sight but most people can see just fine!"

My biggest problem with Trixie is the fact that she's a unicorn stage magician using stage magic in a world where real magic exists. It'd be one thing if she was an Earth Pony or Pegasus, but she's a unicorn and lives in a world where unicorns are capable of using normal magic.

 

For me it just makes her a fundamentally lame character

Honestly I have thought of this too but think about it...Trixie just doesn't seem capable of doing much other than stage magic. I mean she studied magic (At least in the comics she did) but she can't seem to really do it. My friend is convinced she has some sort of magical disability and it might just help her to feel like she can do something useful when she preforms on stage.

To be honest Trixie is like Scootaloo even though she can't fly it does not mean she is the weakest she finds other means to get air born which is her scooter and Trixie not having the ability to use magic like Twilight, Rarity etc puts her talents into magic entertainment it shows that she may not be a powerful unicorn, but her talents are still there with magic she just uses magic in another form.

THANK YOU! Glad i'm not the only one who knew this