SoonVindicated

I'll try to keep this short...I've spoken about Diamond Tiara on these forums before, so I won't rehash everything that I have already said. However I will say that I wish the writers would have been kinder to her. I understand that she is meant to be a minor antagonist in the story, but give her some backstory at least. If you are making a character that is meant to be hated, at least give it some redeeming qualities. The Diamond Tiara we have is far too transparent, and two dimensional to be a truly great villain. MLP: FiM has created a standard in great programming for children. Something that Lauren Faust set out to do, but in her absence it seems the writers have failed to deliver. At least in regards to Diamond Tiara to be sure. I have other complaints about the writers, all of which are best used on another topic at another time. I like Diamond Tiara for what she can be, and not what the writers have made her out to be. I think we should be given a deeper perspective on who she is, and why she acts the way she does. Something redeeming, and thoughtful. Though from what I've seen of the writers so far...I doubt it. They seem to be more interested in being cruel to DT, at least from what I've observed. I have decided to embrace Diamond Tiara, because in many ways the act of doing so expresses the core concepts of what it means to be loving and tolerant. Something I think many of my fellow bronies fail to do. Just mentioning DT and SS on a Facebook page, and watch the sick and depraved come out of the woodworks describing in detail the terrible things they want to do to these children. All for the very minor offenses these two have comitted. I've seen such despicable things said about DT and SS from a group of people who should know what it means to look beyond what we are shown. For me, DT and SS , separate the open minds from closed ones.

Hear me out, friends. I, personally, want to see more character development for Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon. Why? Because I have a great dislike for 2 dimensional villains whose only purpose is to provide conflict for the protagonists. You would think that, with MLP: FiM, the writers would know that their audience expects more than the usual tropes. I also speak about the precedence that Lauren Faust set for the series in making a high quality cartoons for girls, and not just bronies themselves. I think most of us can agree that DT and SS were created for the sole purpose of showing children how not to act. Thus they are made to be hated, and if you hate them you are acting the way the writers want you to. However, no person is mean without cause. This is true for ponies as well. A backstory would go a long way to explain why DT and SS act the way they do, however I sincerely doubt that the writers will afford DT and SS that kind of dignity. Why do I say this? Because of the episode " One Bad Apple". The theme of it is that a villain (Babs) is portrayed as an antagonist, but her character evolves throughout the episode ( written quite poorly I might add, as it felt rushed and contrived). They become something more through our understanding of them. The very theme of this episode was better suited for DT and SS. Think about this for a moment. DT and SS already had establishing characteristics, and in addition they also had meaningful relationships with the characters already. Apple Bloom namely. It just makes more sense to have that episode enhance our understanding of already established villains so that they become something more, and thusly accomplish what Lauren Faust set out to do originally. Break barriers of perceptions, especially in regards to cartoons for girls. The very core of what we admired in her, and her work. If the writers would rather shoe-horn in a brand new character to fill such an important role in the theme of this episode, than allowing well established characters that would have been a much better choice for that role. What chance do DT and SS have for an absolution? I disregard the fanfiction accounts of DT and SS, as I believe they are nothing more than mental masturbation on the part of some people who crave a catharsis for their own inner demons. Dark and evil things that the very authors of these fanfictions created themselves. These very things, DT and SS have never actually done, but people expect it of them. Why? Because we are made to hate them, and it's just that simple. I find it ironic that the writers have only shown us the worst of DT and SS, and never have shown us the good parts. This is ironic in that this is what haters do with us to non-bronies who know nothing about us. They show these non-bronies only the worst of our community, and so the non-bronies tend to view us in a bad light because that is all they know about us. The same is true with DT and SS, and I won't even talk about all the pictures and stories I see where people depict these two being harmed, maimed, and even killed brutally for the very minor offenses they have committed. The very same is what haters would do to us. So for me the tale of DT and SS is eerily similar to our own reality as bronies. There is one thing I do expect of Season 4, if my hunch about the writers is accurate. They will do the single most hurtful thing to Diamond Tiara they could ever do. That is to take away her only friend, Silver Spoon. Consider how SS is portrayed as somewhat nicer than DT. Her presence is merely to amplify DT's mean side from a writers perspective. Kinda like how somewhat large people will hang out with even larger people so they look better by comparison. While rich ponies are generally portrayed as snobby and elitist (Sweet and Elite, and The Best Night Ever), and for the most part are only kind when it is convenient for the plot ( Fancy Pants because Rarity needed some kind soul to help her out of her situation, and Filthy Rich to provide a leverage force against Diamond Tiara) we can draw a conclusion that the writers are generally biased against the wealthy. Which is very common in writing. They generally provide a poor perception of the wealthy, and create a standard in doing so. It is also from this that I would believe that the writers won't give DT or SS any redeeming traits or the dignity of a backstory that would raise them above the mold the writers have forced them into. If you have read this far, you have my thanks. Most would have turned away at the outset, and for you to have read this far means that you have a genuine want to understand. Which is more than I can say for most. With this I ask that you look at DT and SS with that same want to understand, and not blindly accept what the writers have told us to think. DT and SS may never know redemption, and the path of redemption is never easy. Though I do believe we have all done things we regret at one point. For this reason we are all walking that path, marching ever forward to become a better person through our want to change and understand each other and ourselves. The most important part is that we do so, together, hand in hand. Thank you.

I'm gonna make this short. For one do we have proof that they are being sent death threats, and two do we have proof that these are legit bronies or are they a pile of opportunistic trolls trying to stir the pot of hatred between bronies and DHX. Seriously, I know that we have some dark people in our community here, and I know that most of would never dream of doing something like this. Though we have to consider that even if this is true, the people shouting death threats are obviously in the minority.

While I agree with the idea that death threats are excessive even in the worst of scenarios. You have to realize that it was more than just an opinion that sparked the dislike towards Yamino. She had effectively "killed Derpy" (in the minds of many) because of her crusade against the character that most everyone loves. Seriously she even wrote scathing letters to the writers of the show (and made sock puppet accounts) in an effort to get the character retconned because she believed that Derpy Hooves was a symbol of hatred towards the mentally disabled. The stance itself was ignorant of the character, but no one really cared about that around the time. It was when Derpy was removed from canon after it came to light that Yamino may have had a hand in it even though one of the writers said she didn't. That is where the hatred began to take new heights. People seemed to want a target for their emotions, and Yamino fit the bill. I am not condoning this, as many shouldn't. However Yamino herself is not completely innocent in her actions, even though what she had done did not warrant the explosive reaction that she received. She came across as bigoted, and arrogant to those that did read what she had to say about Derpy. In the beginning Yamino deleted comments from her page that did not support her own ideas. She believed her ideas were superior to others, and so she led her one-man crusade against a cherished character. So you see it was a combination of factors that ultimately led to the explosive reaction you are referring to. I must reiterate that I did not support a lot of the comments she received as they were neither constructive nor were they in the spirit of the show. However don't make Yamino out to be an innocent angel, because she was far from that. Doesn't mean people had the right to say what they did, but it does mean that they did have their reasons for not liking Yamino. That being said what did you hope to accomplish by opening up this old wound?

Ah yes of course the logical fallacy of jumping to conclusions about a person based on single factoid. If you dislike something surely you must hate it just because you are a hater. I've seen this kind of thinking with bronies to anti-bronies. The..."haters gonna hate" clause that seems to exist with anyone that has a different opinion about something than you do. I understand the core message, that is to give something a chance, as we as bronies did with MLP. However I argue against the idea that some people do not like Equestria Girls, just because they are "haters". The may have legitimate reasons for not liking something. For instance, some bronies view this as a corruption or a cash-in on MLP, and in some ways it is. A corruption in that it changes the core material to a point where it is barely recognizable from the source, but still claims itself to be clearly associated with it. A cash-in in that it's trying to appeal to an older generation of girls, and thus acquire more revenue with a broader demographic. Then again perhaps this is to also test the waters to make something more permanent. Either way, I think you shouldn't make blanket judgments about everyone who doesn't like Equestria Girls. Sure some might not have good reasons for not liking Equestria Girls, but that is their right. To sit there and repeat what everyone has already said about giving things a chance (ad nauseum) to a group of bronies, is for the most part preaching to the choir. In fact most of my brony friends are gonna give it a look because we all know these concepts, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have standards about what we want to watch. Especially when you consider that this is something that possibly abuses the core material that we have grown to love. While we all have different ideas about things, some more informed than others. It is these differing views that give us an opportunity to respect one another even when we have different ideas. I for one will be watching Equestria Girls, and I know a few who won't be. Though we respect each other's decisions, and we don't force our ideas on each other. This is also part what it means to be a brony, and part of what it means to be a respectable person. When I read the first post of this thread, I did not see this kind of respect. I know this is an unpopular thing to say considering all the support I've seen for it. Though this is who I am, I ask questions about the status quo, and say the things that people don't want to hear. Though they need to, if only to consider a subject in a vastly different way than they are accustomed. This is what it means to think outside yourself, and to see through the eyes of another. The first step in understanding is not to scream your own idea, but to listen to another's.

I watched the whole episode, and I've decided that Babs Seed should not be forgiven. That being said she does deserve a second chance. I say this because Babs Seed herself did many terrible things, and all of which she was never so much as even given a slap on the wrist for it. The CMC feeling that their problems would only continue. Decided to seek out justice for themselves in terms of the booby-trapped float. Keep in mind that in order for that plan to work, Babs Seed would have had to have stolen it. If she didn't,nothing would have happened because of it. Besides the CMC had a timer so that the booby trap would only go off at a specific time so only Babs Seed would be affected. Much of the conflict arises from the fact that Babs Seed never made ammends for her crimes. A simple 30 second montage of Babs Seed helping rebuild the float, buy them new milkshakes, and generally working to better herself would have been fine. If a person is truly sorry for what they have done they will try to make things right. In Babs Seed's case no such effort was made. It seems that the moral of the episode is "bullying is bad, unless you have a sob story then it's okay"! I disagree with the writer when she states that what the CMC was doing was in effect bullying in itself. That can't be further from the truth. In a just world people who commit crimes are expected to face justice. That's like saying parents who punish their children for stuff like theft and vandalism are bullies too. Try to think how this has any real world applications in the Justice System. It simply doesn't. I am also shocked that the writer would even suggest that in the wake of Amanda Todd's suicide. Of which I am sure that many emember that most of the bullies that bullied her, were also just going with the flow. A lot of the things that Babs Seed did, was pretty bad. Even Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon never took it to the degree that Babs Seed did. However the episode is a product of the writers feelings about morality. The problem isn't so much with Babs Seed as a character than it is with the writer who protrayed her, and gave us the poor resolution to the conflict with even poorer reasons behind it. I wonder what the writer would do if their child came home beaten and bloodied from a bully who was "just going with the flow", and didn't want to be bullied themselves. Would they tell their child to not seek justice? To forgive the bully who has victimized them, and give them a free pass without any consequence? Remember that the writer made the CMC forgive Babs Seed, not because it's realistic, but because the writer was demonstrating their own view of morality. Using the CMC and Babs Seed to illustrate for us. Our conflicts with Babs Seed is a conflict of morality in truth. I do not agree with the writer, and will never. Not as long as I value justice. So in the end I see that the problems were with the writing. I know how much we all want to support the writers of the show, but I can't in this instance. I would talk more about this, but I feel that it's essentially useless and won't change anything.

The question is: how would ponies react to humans coming to Equestria? In order to answer that we have to establish a basis of understanding of how humans got there, and if ponies knew about them prior to their arrival. There are many different outcomes, and it depends largely on initial perceptions. The problem I foresee here is that we are asked to give a conclusion based on the perception of the ponies. As we are humans we share many of the same organs used to perceive the world as ponies do. That does not mean we would see the same world. In fact their methods of transduction ( turning stimuli into information the nervous system can use) could be uniquely different. Even the form of storage for this information could be different, and could be uniquely handled. Even the slightest differences in perception could change the entire conceptualization of any given object. So what am I saying with this? I am saying that we cannot judge the viewpoint of a pony being limited by our human perception because chances are we both see the world very differently. This is just talking about the physical differences, and I haven't even begun to talk about the cultural differences. Of which we cannot even begin to properly assess another culture without first looking at it within it's own system. Otherwise we become dangerously close to ethnocentric behavior by comparing our culture to theirs. Before I begin discussing how I think ponies would react. I need to first mention one point. I know that many people would think that ponies would see humans as evil, and a race of people that should be avoided at all costs. These same people generally have a low opinion of humanity themselves. They have reasons for seeing mankind this way, and no one can argue against that. However, in order to see humans in such a dark way you must first disregard the good things that people do. You must also assume that most people will behave evilly if given the chance. When in fact most of the time it is good people thinking they are doing good things. Many will point to history as an example of the evil that people do, but in reality it is much the same thing we have today. People doing things that they believe that is right and proper. Perceptions of good and evil have changed and evolved over the course of human history. At one time slavery was seen as good and proper. Aristotle wrote positively about the subject in his theory of " Natural Slavery". Ideas of what is good and evil has changed because the subject is quite frankly, subjective, and is based on the culture in which that perception is installed. So what of ponies? Do they share the same trappings as we? They probably have an idea of what is right and wrong because they do have concepts of duality that we see as early as the first episode. Though where does that come from? Humans, because MLP: FiM is a human construct. The cold reality of it is everything nice and beautiful we love about Equestria has been put there by a human. Everything we know about Equestria is there through the power of the human mind, and more importantly the culture of the people involved in it's creation. As it's message transcends the borders of nations, cultures, and of the self. We begin to see that in order to judge humanity we must look at the whole picture, and not fall victim to "confirmation bias" in which some people look only for information to support their chosen bias about the given subject. We know the message is positive, and we can see the resistance/acceptance it receives as it begins to span our planet. Like watching ripples in an ocean bouncing off unseen obstacles. If you look at MLP: FiM in this way you can catch the briefest of insight into humanity as a whole, and quite possibly draw an idea. If the ponies of the MLP: FiM truly existed, and knew about us. They would know to judge us by our own standards. When they did, they would know that even though we do bad things, we did so because we wanted to do the right thing. To answer how ponies would react to humans, is more about asking how we would react to ourselves. Every explanation I've read on this thread is more telling about the person posting, and their own perceptions of humanity than it ever will be about the perceptions of candy-colored ponies. Our experiences, at least in part, defines for us who we are. In every post, by every person here, I can see a glimpse of their experience, and I ask myself. What series of ripples came together to make the very posts I am reading, realized.

To start let me say that your title is quite misleading in that it makes a false blanket statement about bronies. There are some bronies who do go out of there way to get people into the show. I would not call them "obsessed" as you have, because I think that choice of word exaggerates what actually goes on. Though there are probably a couple who are like that. Though certainly not all of us, or even some. Most of the time when I see a brony trying to "convert" it is usually them inviting the other person to watch the show and give it a chance. All the while extolling the virtues of it. Though they usually leave it at that because they are relying on the quality of the show to win people over. I have not seen a single one that is "obsessed" with getting people into the show. Doing so would likely have an opposite effect, and just serve to appear as "annoying". If anything is a cult it is the insensitive and bigoted haters that routinely go out of their way to preach their message to hate and intolerance to every brony they meet. Even going as so far as to go to brony videos to bash bronies. Like any cult they have their reasons, usually gross generalizations of the people they seek to demonize. All the while have little tolerance of people who show even the slightest support for the target of their hatred. So you see it's not about bronies being a cult. It's more about showing people to think outside the box, and to give things a chance they would not have normally. Some people might perceive this as aggressive, but it's not unlike commenting about what your favorite food is. Doesn't mean your favorite food is less by comparison. It just means that it's their favorite food, and they want you to try it. To see if you like it too. However haters tend to want to look at this in a different way. They view it as a forceful, and often times aggressive way of including others into the community. Which could not be further from the truth. You know that there are plenty of shows that are quite good and should be given a chance too. Like Adventure Time, and Gravity Falls. I know a few bronies who do encourage people to watch MLP, because it is a good show. Though they also in the same breath talk about the other shows they love to. This is what normal people do. They talk about things they like, and desire to find others who share similar interests. If there ever is someone who is being too aggressive with pandering their view. Tell them as much, and be sure they know that they have made their point and they need to stop now. Because this is the one thing that haters are most known for, but I am willing to bet there are a couple bronies who are like this too. These bronies do not represent us as a collective whole, because most of us know we cannot be overzealous like the haters. If we are to earn respect and credibility.

While I can say with confidence that I have never hated a pony, or any character from the series. I can say that I have not liked some characters for the things they have done. Diamond Tiara is one such character. A character who remains the most unpopular of any character in MLP: FiM series. A character that after awhile I began to see as misunderstood. Yet still a character who appears to embody much of things that we don't like in other people. I do know that this might have been the intent of the story writers. To create a villain or an oppressive force with few redeeming traits in order to create a story with conflict. As was the case with Gilda. This being said I can say that I ended up liking Diamond Tiara. Not a lot, but more than I used to. Not for what she is now, but for what she could be. Right now she is the pony everyone loves to hate, but to me there is more to her than what we've been shown. I would give her a chance to prove herself a good pony, and I think she can if she was challenged in the right ways. I can't say with certainty that she would prove to be a good pony, but others can't say she wouldn't. This is what makes this subject intriguing to me. The possibility of a great villain becoming a great hero. Also, I didn't like Rarity at first. Primarily because she seemed like the girly girl, but then I realized. She is only that way in part. She is also pretty classy, and sophisticated. This is something I respect in other people. Class, and the ability to hold onto one's integrity as such. Too often I have seen people spout hateful nonsense for no reason other than to be hateful. It takes class to see these people for what they are. It also takes class to know how to put these people in their place without succumbing to their venom. I think Rarity is more than capable of this.

There are moments when I have considered this concept. The backstories of the Mane 6. While one can say that one pony has the least amount of backstory, and another has more. The reality as I see it, is that they all don't have enough. Why I think this is because the more a person knows about their favorite pony the more they can feel connected to them in that way. Especially if they share these things in common. I've often thought about Pinkie Pie. The obvious pink sheep of the family. I've wondered if she has ever felt like she doesn't belong in the Rock Family. I think of this in terms of how different she is from them in both appearance and personality. I for one still think she is a princess from long lost kingdom who through strange occurrences ended up in the Rock Families care. Yet I do not know any of this, canonically. I, like most people, have a headcanon when it comes to certain characters. Though unlike some people, I know this to be subjective, and as such I will not pander it as the truth. Rather my perceptions of how the canon can be represented. Though this is part of what makes these characters so alive for some people. Their own ideas of these ponies of course. So for me, perhaps it is safe to say that there should always be a degree of mystery when it comes to our favorite ponies. So we can perceive what feels rights to us, what strengthens that bond, without being contradicted by canonical elements. An interesting thought that deserves further discussion, but I think this is enough for one post.