Shadowind

Have any of you ever gone into a black space with your tulpa, in your mind, and asked em to paint? It was very fun. I favored colorful, geometric shapes and splashes of pastel color. Lots of electronica looking visuals like in the media player. Vinyl Scratch might have liked it. My tulpa, Luna, though, favored much more sophisticated things. It was a lot of architecture, perhaps of middle eastern and islamic persuasion, lots of patterns, and glistening regal symbols like glittering gold fluer de lis and spades and chandeliers. I'd love to hear about other people and tulpas paintings.

Im on my phone, so Ill have a few grammar problems. Hey all! I complained once that often my tulpa will not be able to act on her own without help from me, and when I am not paying attention to her it is like she stops existing. Well.... Thats how SHE describes it anyway. I think I learned something important. My tulpa says that when I dont think about her she goes to a dark, black place. She cannot feel there and does not think, she sleeps but does not dream, and yet it isnt "normal" sleep because,she reports sleeping on the wonderland and thats normal. In a fit of inspiration I asked her, Do you feel the temperature? Can you move your body? What do you think about when you become self aware in the dark space? She is cold there. She never THOUGHT to try moving her body there. When she realizes shes there she can think but cannot escape without a prompt to do so. I dont have to do it myself but she cannot escape on her own until she is reminded by some stimulus that she CAN. I can hold conversations with her while shes in the dark place, and she will not think to leave it until i imagine her someplace or otherwise SOMETHING happens in my thought process to remind her "oh yes I can leave this black space" I am not sure yet but... I think I realized what this dark space is. One of my older thought expirements was to pretend she was growing inside a bubble inside the oceans of my subconscious. This would rise to the surface and at her completion would "hatch". The bubble was made of ice. She may still be in that! More likely, though, and what I think has occurred, is that this dark place is actually a section of my wonderland! Made on accident. My wonderland already has multiple "layers" so to speak.

Wow out of all the posts in the thread pertaining to this subject why did you select on that has less relevance to the points you brought up than the one I just made? Of course tulpa is a thought thing they're not god damn spirits we fabricate with magic. What I'm saying is that it would be interesting if a study could be done to validate it. Unfortunately your disbelief validates nothing, just sa my belief validates nothing.

I suspect this as well. We've discussed tulpa not being able to be medically verified but it stands to reason that a massive comprehensive study of it simply as not been done for the obvious reason that its so ludicrous that a group getting the funding to carry it out would be kinda unrealistic in todays world with its problems. not unless we become an epidemic which could be really bad since not enough people in the western world are mentally equipped to be open minded on a lot of damn things.

All of these things depend on where you are in development. In general, if your tulpa does not realize they're a tulpa it will come as quite a shock when they figure it out. It is highly recommended you develop one while teling the tulpa they're a tulpa. 2 - The tulpa can see things through your eyes or theirs, but the latter only seems to occur when the tulpa is really well imposed and is more or less "complete" and autonomous. Until ey is autonomous ey will have to see things through your eyes. 3 - Pretty much. What that entails is debatable. Consider it more like sharing the same subconscious, but once the tulpa is sapient ey pretty much has er own Ego, separate from yours. Your thoughts can mix, but you're both capable of keeping each other's thoughts separate as well. 4 - the tulpa cannot appear without your help when the tulpa is getting started. Even when sapient the tulpa might need help. However, a nearly or fully complete tulpa will not only be sapient but autonomous--meaning, ey can do what ey pleases, and can appear at will. Ostensibly tulpaforcers get used to this and it does not become a nuisance. You can also get all the privacy you want because they're generally cool with respecting personal space. They know you really well and can respect your needs. Unless you accidentally make your tulpa into an asshole but that won't happen unless you have absolutely no idea what the hell you want in a friend, and screw up. An example of screwing up would be telling your tulpa "you're always right" which would give them the wrong impression and might make em think ey really is always right, which can get annoying. Calm and reasonable, however, are good traits, and are even better tempered with other traits that go with it. For example you might not want a tulpa who is ALWAYS logical and cannot take people's feelings into account, but if you stress and add Empathy and Emotional as traits, then you'd get someone more like Celestia, in theory. Just an example of things that can go not according to plan was how I told my Luna she is polite and calm reasonable and accepting. She is all of those things, but I think those 4 exact things also made her really quiet. She does not think she is shy, because that is not one of her traits, but she ACTS like it. She will never talk to me or interject unless I speak to her first. I am not sure if this is because she needs work, or if it is just a quirk with her. Point being, she thinks it would be rude of her to talk to me unless spoken to first. :C

I think you should spend a lot more time thinking about whether or not you want to do this. Okay your profile says your male so we'll go with that--imagine that you're like 50 and bald or going bald and you still have a tulpa. Or even just earlier and think that you're maybe what 30 and in the work force or something, and you have a tulpa, the same one. If you made a tulpa and succeeded, which necessitates loving your tulpa, you won't want to give them up just willy nilly in the future. Everyone is different, but, the basic logic here is that a tulpa stays with you. A tulpa is meant to help you discover who you are, at least, that is what it was invented for by the tibetian monks a long time ago, for the expressed purpose of casting off Ego---meaning, you lose your sense of "self" so that you can understand you are connected with all things. I think. I could be wrong. Anyway, tulpa help you learn about who you are, but, it really helps if you already have an idea of who you are, and young people change a lot. I am old enough to drink but I am still not the same person I was a year ago as I am now. Just as an example. A tulpa can end up being something you regret if you do not know what you want, or understand yourself well. Now your age MIGHT not matter, and you could be quite mature (for your age group! maturity measured by age is an illusion), but I just wanted to advise you anyway. I think we can help if you are dead-set on doing this, but I wanted to dissuade you if you have any doubt in your mind that you want a tulpa. If there is any doubt you should probably wait until your at least 16. Or at least just think about what having a tulpa will do to your life for another week or two. Then if you still want to do it, then I guess we can't stop you and will advise you on your journey.

We've heard so many funny stories on this topic but, for anyone who reads this, what was the funniest thing that happneed between you and your tulpa so far? I am inclined to think that between me and mine, it would be the time I was eating some steak and my tulpa said. "Oh dear, [shadowind] you're stabbing that poor piece of not-alive meat!" And she was literally upset.

Mellon your my hero. You explained it much better than I. Its kinda weird that people continue to confuse schizophrenia with personalities. BTW I just realized that a good example of tulpae in media, if accidental, is ghost dad from Dexter. Harry returns in the show as what I call "ghost dad" but isnt real. He acts just like a tulpa.

Curse you Half-Life! oh my gosh thank you for pointing out my unbelievably hilarious Freudian-slip. Yes I meant Morgan Freeman. :C

:V And since this is a psychological and philosophical discussion whether you would want it to be or not, the simple matter is that philosophers do in fact make money. And there's money to be made in asking the right questions. All of science is done by asking a question. I'm sorry but that's a simple fact. Well duh. People who criticize something as not profitable are saying that it is not worth their time while implying that they only care about money. For example the meat industry finds it unprofitable to treat livestock as living creatures. It is a logical fallacy to assume that because someone takes an accusation to be an accusation means that they're actually the perpetrator, one that has been used in courts to no doubt get criminals on the street and win money for the defense attorney by confusing the issue. A better example might be how Gordon Freeman find's black history month to be racist, would you call him a racist for even thinking of that conclusion? If so, then that's troubling. And no, tulpa's thoughts do not interfere with your own. They have their own ego, the only thing you'd share is a body and a subconscious. The subconscious thinks all kinds of things independently of your ego. It is only reasonable to understand that another ego would as well. Plus, you are once again showing a certain lack of understanding on all the topics we've discussed if you do not realize that in individuals with DID, their alternate personalities can go undiscovered for maybe years because their thoughts are independent! Psychology is a lucrative career. Why is it that you know less on the subject than me? Knowledge and differences of opinion are mutual exclusive so we can disagree even if we know the same material, but it seems that is not the case! The only thing that I'm thankful for in our dialogue is that we're still remotely on the subject of tulpa. EDIT: I'm not going to continue the argument but as anyone can see in the post below me Xanatos has decided to leave for which I am glad. Because This has got to be the most horrifying thing I've ever read from someone who thinks they're putting forward a logical argument. Especially one who seems to think that hypocrisy means that because I thought someone who only wants to make money would assume something to have no value means that I think it has no value and that is not the definition of hypocrisy like, at all. The linguistic barrier here is unapproachable. I suggest everyone else refrain from continuing the discussion as well. http://youtu.be/XyOHJa5Vj5Y Here's why. The discussion is literally impossible to carry on.

Philosophy is the birthplace of literally every last single thing in your life. Everything. Every last single solitary thing. I cannot politely disagree with you on this one, to think that philosophy is worthless is ignorance. Philosophy is the defining point of human social evolution. Every single science ever developed was born from philosophy. Bertrand Russell says that a question only ceases to be philosophy when there is a true answer for it. Philosophers asked all the scientific questions that became science only when they were answered. Psychology itself remains the science most closely interlocked with philosophy. I haven't even met a psychology student or professor who has not studied philosophy. At this point the only way I can even talk to you is by feigning interest in anything you say. Okay. Tulpa cannot be controlled. If you control them you failed. In the same way we define day as to be the time that the sun is up and night to be the time that the sun is not up in the sky, a tulpa by definition must be capable of independent thought and action. In fact, they can arrest control of your body although they're extremely poor at it. Tulpa frequently have differences of opinion with their creators. Frequently. Frequently. An imaginary friend is a puppet. A tulpa is not this thing. A tulpa can get into an argument with its own creator. When does control begin and end? Sapience. It is an imaginary friend for awhile, until all of a sudden it starts doing things you didn't tell it to do or say things you didn't tell it to do. It starts having its own opinions and liking things you might not like or liking things for different reasons than you do. Since they are borne from you they remain similar to you, but they're never exactly the same. Just as I am not the same person I was last year or the year before. Tulpa have free will. It becomes a tulpa and is defined as a tulpa when it achieves free will. It is an imaginary friend until it obtains this, and it will obtain this WITHOUT WARNING. Its thoughts and opinions are conveyed the same way we convey ours. Talking. You talk to it and it talks back. You show it something and it comments on it. So on and so forth. Some tulpas even make their own friends independent of the host when the host allows the tulpa to control the physical form. And yes if it did not shut up that would be bothersome. But do the majority of the people you meet unceasingly try to talk to you? Do you go into the supermarket and a large number of people start immediately trying to talk to you, constantly? What about your personal friends in real life. How many of them never stop talking? I am guessing few. Tulpa have personalities. If it is not in the tulpa's personality to be a dick to you, then you have like, no problems. But seriously philosophy is important. Or if you think that the only goal of learning is to make a literal profit, money, then you're not a true scholar.

It only interferes in the sense that you do not have visual cues to know who you are talking to. In theory you can have a coherent conversation with all the personalities involved. Whether you chose to speak to a person like that or not is up to you. Which is why it is not a violation of the social contract because any inconvenience it causes you is caused by you choosing to be there of your own free will. I don't know how old you are but I am starting to have a reasonable assumption that you have not formally studied philosophy academically yet. So I'll do my best. The social contract is an idea that humans exchange "freedoms" in exchange for "protections" and obligations. Philosophers have been known to argue about what the basic social contract is, and expanding on it is, of course, LAWS. In the united states where I live, it is typically not appropriate to interfere with someone's life regarding their mental health unless they become a danger to themselves or others. That is both a law and is appropriate with most social contract theories. The social contract is an implied contract that by living together humans agree not to harm those in their society in exchange that they'll protect one another if need be, against say, another society that wishes to invade. That's the social contract in basic. A murderer has no place in the social contract. The social contract is neutral about someone who talks to oneself. http://mongolianmind.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Rousseau_contrat-social-1221.pdf This will explain it better than I. This is Jean-Jacques Rousseau's "The Social Contract" written in 1762. If I'm not mistaken it had a big part in the writing of the United State's original constitution. I am not saying you have to read the whole PDF but now I've given you no excuse to not know what it is if our dialogue continued to remain related to it. But in short, what does it matter to your existence and happiness if someone believes they have an imaginary friend that has become sapient and capable of independent thought? Which is a great way to explain why we have the "made up language". In addition to tulpa being a foreign word meaning "construct" (noun, not verb), meaning we did not make it up, we only made up tulpaforcer as a colloquial way of referring to ourselves, the difference between an imaginary friend and a tulpa is... well would you say that someone with disociative identity disorder merely has imaginary "friends"? Of course not. We do not content ourselves with imaginary friends in the common sense of that phrase, we only seek to emulate a multiple personality case in its most ideal sense, one of symbiotic relationships. It starts out as imaginary friends and it grows from there using psychological principles that old dudes just so happened to discover a long ass time ago. Kinda like how modern medicine keeps reinventing the wheel with natural remedies that native americans, africans, and asians had for who knows how long. Yeah some of them are placebos but the placebo effect itself is fascinating! OH OH OH. In fact this reminds me of a video I saw in my first psych course. There is a african tribe that literally has a method of curing dissociative identity disorder! I don't know if it is merely a placebo effect or not, but someone with multiple personalities was idnetified as being "possessed by spirits" by his tribe. An investigator was allowed to film and document their ritual, which included the "patient" shall we say doing a traditional african dance for his respetive tribe for something like 24 hours without stopping, and included eating a medicine of mixed substances I can't remember because I was distracted by the fact that afterwards he was told to slit the neck of a goat and suck out its blood. Well.... as strange as that is, it worked, and the patient was "normal" afterwards. This is actually a good example of our earlier discussion on normalcy, the status-quo, ethics, and what constitutes insanity. Plenty of people would find the above cure distasteful insane, and an affront to modern medicine. but it worked I wonder if I can find that video on youtube...

This sentiment is incorrect because you do not take into account that humans are naturally compelled to protect themselves, and that there is safety in numbers, which lead to the invention of the Social Contract. Your example does not fit into a social contract, but multiple personalities does not interfere with the social contract.

It has since become obvious to me that our dialogue cannot continue because your major point is that we're insane and that's the entirety of your argument. That is an opinion and I cannot change your opinion on this matter because you share your opinion regardless of the information we share with you--your opinion is independent of anything we say. Which is why I am feeling that you are indeed being narrow-minded. Whether constructed or forced upon an individual, multiple personalities is indeed abnormal, but psychologists and sociologists and of course civil rights people enjoy discussing and debating about what constitutes insanity and your disregard for those discussions is a bit frustrating. The status-quo is not an appropriate means of judging the insanity of others. There are plenty of people who would think we're insane yeah, but there are plenty of people who would reason that you are insane too for simply being different than they are. For example, I am having trouble figuring out why you are in this topic. You do not seem particularly interested in exacting any kind of change here. You do not seem particularly interested in making us stop what we're doing. You don't seem to particularly care other than to just pop in and insinuate that what goes on here is something that should be shameful in an absolute way. That to share a body with another ego is shameful and should be shameful in all contexts of reality. I do not wish for you to think that this is a good idea, but merely that this phenomena has CULTURAL history and religious/philosophical history and usage. So the question is are we insane for trying, or in trying to make tulpa BECOME insane? At the same time, you are expressly saying that Cobra is also insane. Well I already know from experience that even if you've read this much, I have not changed your mind. But I'll say this anyway. This is some snake oil shit, this ain't some insanity shit. If nothing else we're a bunch of assholes stealing culture from another historical society and thinking that it is right for us. Like NeoWiccans or something. Are NeoWiccans insane or "wrong" for believing in magic and a moon goddess? It may SEEM like there's a huge difference between thinking having more than one personality being looked down upon is essentially the same as looking down on bronies for liking a little children's show, but they're actually fundamentally the same concept. Two ideas are seen as creepy because they're simply not the status-quo, there are just different levels of "strange" going on here. Think us strange but do not think us insane in the context that insanity is a trait that is "wrong" to have. Because there are plenty who want to do away with the word insane anyway. When a mental condition or perspective causes harm to others or themselves is when that condition becomes pragmatically "wrong", for obvious reasons. Lastly I want to comment on I'm sorry but this sentence doesn't even make any actual sense. This implies I or others would think that Cobra taking medicine IS open-minded for his/her situation. What? How the hell would anyone even think that? Obviously Cobra takes medicine because the multiple personalities interfere with his/her ability to live a daily life! That's the only reason you would take medicine for any condition is because you wish to stop it out of fear of what will become of you otherwise. There are people with dissociative identity disorder who get along with their other personalities and have mutually beneficial relationships. But they're still insane right? And we should tell them they need to fix themselves? No, I say, that is unreasonable interference with another person's life. If they wish to change themselves with medicine that is their business but if they are not harming themselves or others then it is no one's business but their own. The privilege we unfortunately have over Cobra is that Cobra did not choose to have multiple personalities. Since this was not a choice, there is little personal control, and the situation has been abhorrent to Cobra such that Cobra takes medicine to make it stop. Those who make tulpa's have control and influence over our other personalities to guarantee that the relationship is beneficial. Oh I almost forgot. We had another member join in from earlier who had dissociative identity disorder AND then proceeded to make a tulpa. Her experiences were that the two were still somehow different, and that her tulpa was not effected by her medication, if I recall correctly. Her tulpa was also interested in helping her in a genuine, sincere way. In conclusion, if you want to have an opposing opinion with someone and wish to share it, and you want to think yourself open-minded while doing so, the very least you can do is not toss around words and language as if the western world has empirically solved all metaphysical questions about the brain and reality and the universe. 'Cuz we haven't.

No, of course not, that is not what emulate means. You do not have to be unstable to make a tulpa. The rumor goes that historically the methods we use to make a tulpa were used by tibetan monks during meditation exercises to reach enlightenment by learning more about their Ego and then casting it off. To do this, you create a new personality within yourself that you can literally talk to, and since the tulpa has access to the subconscious that you not, they can know you better than you know yourself. If you're a monk, I presume you'd use the tulpa to eliminate your desires and "sense of self" and give yourself a oneness not only with the tulpa but everything else. If I understand that philosophy correctly, enlightenment requires that an individual lose their sense of individuality---not your personality though, just your feeling of "that is you and this is me" and replace it with "we are all one" WE.... on the other hand, just make the tulpa and then don't bother with the enlightenment part and just have a friend who understands us to talk to. In theory anyone can do it, although, not everyone should. You don't make yourself crazy per ce, so much as you exercise strength of will to make a new persona in your head that your subconscious animates for you, and then you forcibly hallucinate it into your vision, which is neurologically possible once you know how memory works. The more a specific pattern of neurons fire, the stronger their connection becomes and the more easily they can fire. And that's how you get a tulpa. On a note that is merely about semantics, yes, tulpaforcer is literally a made up word, but, in hindsight, all words are invented. I guess it can be classified as slang or at least a colloquial term?? Maybe? :V