Truffles

Seriously though.. Everypony is saying "Oh no! Dinky isn't Derpy's daughter?!"

I never really liked the idea of Dinky being Derpy's daughter in the first place because I feel like Derpy is too much of an innocent to go sleeping around and getting pregnant.

Hmmm, maybe this should probably be a separate topic since it is only tangentially related to the episode?

If it's a Power Ponies convention, this could be one of three Spike-centric episodes since he's the only one who's really into the Power Ponies.

If that's the case, I hope it's not just about Spike being a bad conventioneer where he doesn't shower, accidentally wrecks 5000 bit fursuits/cosplay suits with his claws, and floods the hotel by setting off the fire sprinkler with his dragon breath.

This might sound strange. I really liked the episode, but I hope that Zephyr suffers the same fate as Snips and Snails. Has anyone else noticed that they've ceased to exist? 

(THANK GOD!)

They were seen in the bleachers multiple times (coincidentally) in the other David Rapp episode, "Newbie Dash." I was surprised to see them there since you're right that they've been MIA (aside from the title photo) from this season until then.

I can't go through and catalog everything that Zephyr does to make the audience hate him - from taking advantage of his parents' kindness and meekness to his slimy and creepy "flirting" with Rainbow Dash

I think if there's something that did bug me about the episode itself is that it never gave Rainbow Dash a chance to tell him "no." Just about every time she tries, she's either in too much shock to respond or someone interrupts her. The only time she does is the time you mentioned where she kicks him off the couch.

But for the most part it's frustrating to see Rainbow effectively silenced in dealing with what amounts to sexual harassment. It's times like this where I wish the show wasn't Y-7 because I very much wanted to see her give him a swift kick with both hooves to his nuts and exclaim, "Sorry, Mr. and Mrs. Shy - you won't be getting any grandfoals from your son!"

And that's perfectly natural. *pets* But we did get a cool new word for this episode. "Peeved." Just be sure not to use it in the presence of young foals.

I wonder if other uses of the word "peeve" are also considered swear words, like "pet peeve" and "feeling peevish"?

See, this is what I like about you.  You often seem to have a way of tempering my point of view, and looking at it another way that sort of makes me feel better.  In this case, that sentence you wrote about not having a show bible makes me feel a bit better about this brother situation.  Not a lot, but a bit.  Thanks! 

Glad I could be of a bit of a help. I think it's fine to vent about issues in the episodes. I guess in this particular episode there weren't any triggers for me - although Zephyr's treatment of Rainbow and Spike come close. Especially Rainbow. Spike at least looked happy:

Only Spike could make the mundane task of cleaning windows look totally adorable!   

Oh, I'm pretty sure he can see that's she's female every time she turns around. 

LOL. Yeah, I was stretching believability a bit to allow for the sake of argument of whether he could be gay and still be interested in Rainbow. But yeah... Considering he's supposedly been acting that way with her since they were both foals, he must know Rainbow's a she.

Hmm, if she's been getting hit on since then, it might explain why she gave time-traveling Twilight that uncomfortable look back at flight camp: "Oh great, it's bad enough that Fluttershy's baby brother is giving me the goo-goo eyes, now I've got an alicorn who's hitting on me, too! That's it - I'm outta here!"

Are you talking about Cake Boss? Those shows are reruns taken from TLC.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to. I didn't know it was a transplant from TLC! Looks like Rescue Bots and MLP really are the only original shows they have left... I don't see how you can have a network with only 2 original shows. 

Instead, they literally Total Rickalled Zephry.  It was just....insulting, really.  This was the biggest spit in the face the writers could have done.

I'm still sad they didn't make Flutters estranged from her family, but in the end I chose to accept it; mainly because I think I decided to accept the way the show is run a long time ago. That is, they don't really have a show bible that explains all the relationships between the characters and all of their backstories. They pretty much allow the writers to make this stuff up as the show progresses and thus we get new characters appearing out of nowhere. This is also why you get situations where the characters can be wildly OOC for one episode. But like I said, I decided to accept how they produce the show that way, so it is what it is.

the stereotypical depiction of Zephyr is potentially insulting to people who have to, or, for logical reasons, choose to live with their parents (e.g. yours truly)

I didn't see him as quite so stereotypical. It's one thing to move back with your parents where it can be beneficial to all parties involved. My parents were in their 60's and 70's when I moved back in and it worked out quite nicely - I help keep things running around here and pay for a lot of the upkeep and in return I get a bed and one meal a day. It's not like I had any social life anyway, so it didn't matter to me that I'd be isolating myself. When I lived in an apartment I stayed at work until 11PM and played multiplayer FPS'es and then went home, ate a TV dinner or cereal and went to bed.

It's quite another if it's someone like Zephyr whose literally throwing his parents belongings out into the yard and pretty much takes over the entire house for themselves. In fact, I think one of the reasons they made him such a total a-hole was so fans wouldn't be able to sees themselves in him very easily. And if someone can really relate to the kind of things Zephyr was doing to his parents, then it's probably time to take a note from this episode and make some changes in their life.

Can I Ask a question? So Fluttershy never had an abusive childhood? Did her parents then? They are equally as shy as her. And I think they had an abusive childhood. So now it's Fluttershy's Grandparents I'm wondering about. I still have this headcanon that her parents were abused.

I'm very shy in person and I didn't have an abusive childhood; in fact, it was rather pleasant (at least at home - school was kind of tough at times, but not horrific.) I don't think you have to be abused to turn out shy.

I finally had a pony-related dream for the first time ever earlier in the week (maybe due to the post-surgical painkillers. Gotta love 'em, right?)

There was this evil entity in a dark gray cloak. It was humanoid, but didn't have any corporeal form save for this hollow cloak it wore. It also had a dragon minion that wore bone armor head to toe.

The thing in the cloak had cast some sort of spell to control the minds of the four princesses plus Spike and was planning on placing all of them at the five points of a pentagram. Spike was at the top, the two sisters on the 2 upper points, and Cadence and Twilight on the 2 lower ones. (I can't remember the names of the points - the last time I had to learn such stuff was when I played Ultima 8 many years ago.)

Placing them there would draw out their power and make this entity the most powerful being in Equestria, and just as it was about to begin the transfer, the dragon in bone armor revealed himself to be the real Spike and was going to put a stop to it.

It turned out Twilight was already aware of this evil plan so she had Spike make a copy of himself in the Mirror Pool a few days earlier. Twilight then helped the real Spike infiltrate this evil being's headquarters and replace the minion with Spike, using its fully-body bone armor to stay undercover. So the Spike that was sitting at the top of the pentagram was the copy and wouldn't work with the power transference anyway. 

Unfortunately I woke up just as the real Spike was about to save everypony so I don't know how a little dragon like him was going to pull that off. Boo.

Anyway, it was nice to have a dream about the show for a change, and Spike-as-a-hero in particular - even if I was just an observer and not taking part in the actual story.

To be honest, I think that a fear of failure is, to some extent, at the core of every character in this show. Perhaps it's why Fluttershy saying she still tries despite her fear of failing worked so well - because we've seen each of the mane six deal with that. 

Ooooh. That is really interesting as each had a slightly different conflict driving that fear. Sunburst not living up to his potential creating a depressed state, Twilight feeling the burden of self expectation, Diamond Tiara and her family expectation, and ignoring responsible living to prevent failure due to a prior struggle mixed with an extrovert being raised by introverts.

 

Don't forget Dashie and Lesson 1,2,3's conflict! That was the best presentation of fear of failure on the show due to the fact that Dash tends to prize being kick ass ... and realizing you may not only lose but lose hard is crippling.

Thanks to both of you for noticing that! It's true that all of the characters have had a fear of failure at some point: Baby Cakes/Pinkie Pride, Hurricane Fluttershy, Rarity Takes Manehatten, Applebucking Season, Testing Testing 1,2,3 (as you pointed out - thanks!) and pretty much every Spike-centered episode before "Gauntlet of Fire".

I think I picked out those four characters in particular because it wasn't just a fear of failure for an episode, but a fear of failure that has been a major driving force in how they've lived their entire lives up to the point of the episode (or in the case of Twilight - episodeS) where they learn to not let it lead to a negative character trait.

Now, for some other observations:

We see the following ponies in Pinkie's wallet: Mayor Mare, Moondancer, Iron Will, Cranky Doodle, A.K. Yearling, Snails, Cheese Sandwich, and I think(?) Marble Pie. And of course Pinkie mentions Ms. Harshwhinny by name, even though we don't see her.

Also Rarity - wash that bedding, please:

You don't need to be putting your face around where his unclothed nethers have been... =P

I just realized...isn't Zephyr Breeze a lot like Sunburst? They are both dudes who are afraid of failure so they don't even bother trying even though they are more talented than they think they are.

THANK YOU! That's the other pony I was thinking of who has had a fear of failure as a lesson for the viewer. Twilight, Diamond, Sunburst, and now Zephyr.

How sad is it that Spike, a BABY dragon, is more mature and has a stronger work ethic than Zephyr?

This episode may have inadvertently given Spike some character development. It seems like Spike doesn't just do the cleaning because it makes Twilight happy, he does it because he really likes cleaning! Look at how into cleaning the windows he was, until he realized he was tricked.

I just hope in one of the remaining two Spike episodes this season, we learn he has more of a life's ambition than simply tidying up after ponies... 

If they wanted Zephyr Breeze to be unlikable, they did a good job of it. The episode wasn't anything to write home about but he's easily the candidate for worst pony.

As far as unlikeability goes, he's tied right now with Suri Polomare. Like I said in another thread with her, I actually love hating on her. Same goes for Zephyr. I kinda want Rainbow Dash to tie him to some stakes on the ground (he'll probably think it's something kinky, lol) and do her nuclear barn-destroying dive on him to get him to stop hitting on her in such a skeevy way.

Zephyr and Trenderhoof should start a club.

Oh - ohohoh. For me, Zephyr makes Trenderhoof look like Shining Armor in comparison! Trenderhoof was also a diva, but he at least was a good writer and his flirting with Applejack didn't approach the same levels of creepiness as Zephyr's hitting on Rainbow did. Touching her hooves every chance he got, making it seem like she was the one hitting on him. Trenderhoof was just lovestruck and once AJ and Rarity straightened him out, he let up and moved on.

But really, you're right - they should start a club. And they can invite Suri to join too so they can all make each other miserable for the rest of their lives. 

SERIOUSLY! Zephyr didn't try and fail. He didn't attempt to try at all! When he was in Mothershy and Fathershy's house, he destroyed property just to suit his needs. When he was given even the simplest tasks, he tried whatever he can to get himself out of it! Why? Not because he feared failure. Because he's damn lazy! These tasks are so simple in Equestrian standards, Snips and Snails can do them. Instead, he manipulated the animals and Spike and then quit on Dash! He's a stereotypical freeloader AND diva!

I agree with you on his being a freeloader and diva, though my takeaway from his hemming and hawing at a lot of these tasks was he was too afraid to even try them because starting them and not finishing would be the same as failure - which he already just experienced with the mane cutter's job. So feeling that kind of failure might have been the thing to keep him from even attempting to do the odd jobs Fluttershy was giving him.

I admit, though, how can you have a fear of failing to clean windows? Like you said, Snips and Snails seem more capable than he is. 

Speaking of which, how many ponies now have had to deal with fear of failure? Twilight. Diamond Tiara, and now Zephyr. Seems like I'm forgetting somepony, though. "Fear of failure" seems like a major recurring theme in this show.

Also, was Zephyr supposed to be a parody of a flamboyantly gay person? Because that's definitely the impression I got.  

He may be effeminate, but considering how many times he hit on Rainbow Dash I don't think he's gay.

Unless he thinks Rainbow is male... 

He sure is a waifu-stealing piece of sh-...work. Hopefully the Wonderbolts gave him an appropriate nickname when Dash brought him over to do that job at the Academy. Like "Zephyr Sleaze".

Another member of our family likes to watch that cake making reality show. I only ever watch MLP, myself. Tried to get into LPS, but couldn't get past the character designs.

I'll take the opposite view here. After how the fans reacted to that one appearance, I could see the showrunners fit in a future episode to revisit this one (and any others that got away.)

But it wouldn't happen until Season 7; if there is even a season 7.

I mean, season 2 took some fan ideas and made them real. If the fans reacted positively to this escapee, I could see a story being penned about her.

Sure. Probably take my tablet and stylus and some family photos.

I'd like to think though that a "trip to Equestria" could also be a VR experience, presuming science ever perfects NPC AI's. If they ever do, I could see myself spending a great deal of time in such an environment.

I wouldn't say she was estranged.

 

We don't know how often she visits her family, or how often they visit her. Until now we didn't know much about them.

 

I lived in many different states for quite a few years and I was never considered estranged... I talked to family and we visited each other as much as we could. 

 

Seems to me just in that little clip that Fluttershy and her father have a pretty good relationship seeing as she is concerned about his cloud collection.

Oh, no, no - I agree with you completely; she's not estranged with her parents at all. 

I was saying this clip broke my headcannon about a possible estrangement existing. I thought her being on bad terms with them might explain why we never see them, but that is clearly not the case anymore.

If that were true, then if a couple that is originally planning to have kids changes their minds, they just committed murder.

It's not quite the same. Gametes have no way to form a sentient life form on their own, they have to be combined with another and then gestated. The Pinkie copies were already functioning life forms, even if they were running some simple version of the original's brain.

My point was it's possible to consider them as a sort of fetal life form with the potential to grow (mentally) into something more. (The show doesn't really indicate whether their mental capacity could expand as time went on, aside from the stray we saw in the diner which may or may not be the initial copy and thus may already have been smarter than the others.) And since there are many who consider terminating a fetus' life as murder, then ceasing the existence of the copies might be considered just as bad.

Think of it this way.  Lets say AJ was the one who made clones instead of pinkie pie to say handle picking all of the apples on the farm in episode 4 without "help" and they were all honest but compulsive farmers.  Would Twilight have even tried to send them back?

That's a fair point. You're right when you said a life form being annoying isn't an excuse to end its existence. It makes me think Twilight finds Pinkie's core personality annoying and thus she didn't have any qualms over sending them back, despite what that actually may mean for them or how it would make them feel.

If Spike had cloned himself, or even Shining Armor, I suspect she would have second thoughts since they are family to her and not just friends. (I'm trying to imagine now what compulsion a Shining Armor clone would exhibit.    Spike OTOH, there's lots of compulsions I could come up for his copies to have!)

I don't know what to think about this family yet. 

I am a bit sad to see my headcannon about Fluttershy being estranged from her parents due to her living like an earth pony fly the coop, though.

Rainbow Dash sure noticed the height differences a while back. XD

The Griffons' Empire fell so what we saw is their version of the Dark Ages. They looked to me like they were on equal footing with Earth ponies, and alot of the ruin we saw was just due to a hopelessness of spirit. They don't seem to have Pegasi weather tech, however, but maybe they just don't care what the weather does?

The yaks do seem more primitive, but they're insular and stuck up there at the top of the world.

Dragons are even more insular and they also value toughness, so they don't believe in using tech to better their lives. Well, maybe that one who wanted all the pillows is the exception! XD

My dirty mind first read the title as jack.... you get the picture.

I keep wanting to call it something different as well, though mine is pretty benign: "Applejack's Way Off Day Off." I had to go look that up to see why I kept wanting to call it that and it turns out it's the name of an old Pokemon episode. 

I would rather that the show have a clear definition on how they see each other rather than it being confusing and complicated. It will allow writers to build on a defined dynamic rather than having it constantly change.

Ah, fair enough. I myself am fine with it being left undefined just as long as it's apparent the writers show the love and respect they should have for one another. And it's still okay for Spike to be snarky with Twilight and Twilight to yell at Spike if the other is acting like a doofus.

What bothers me is when it feels like Spike is treated as either a pet, or worse - a prop - by Twilight. It's bad enough when one of the other ponies does it, it's unforgivable when it's his charge.

In some ways, maybe like Al Borland.  Assistant, but good friend as well.  I just wanted to make that comparison, but actually, they're more than just friends.  I'd definitely say it's an adopted family thing.  Twi raised him from when he hatched, so there's a bit of motherly influence from Twi, but definitely a bit of sisterly as well.  Actually, you know what Spike is kinda like?  Alfred from Batman.  Well, in some ways.  Bruce and Alfred are definitely like family, but in that case, the butler is like the older, fatherly figure, but with Twi and Spike, it's reversed.

Heh, your attempt at trying to describe how they relate to one another demonstrates exactly what I go through every time I need to pin those two down.   "They're like this, but also kinda like this. And maybe this, too."

I think even if the show decided one day to explicitly define their relationship through some dialogue, I would have trouble accepting it since there are too many instances of it being one thing or another.

According to issue 40 of the Friendship is Magic comic series, Celestia was the one acting as Spike's guardian. Twilight was entrusted with Spike's care when Celestia was too busy. Twilight then regarded him as a friend, so I suppose by now it's technically family friend.

I love that one. As soon as it came out I bought it. It confirmed many of my own thoughts on how Twilight was involved in raising Spike, even though it technically isn't canon with what goes on in the TV show. I was surprised however by how often Twilight had to drag hatchling Spike into her classes. It took me back to my days in high school where sometimes students who had babies would do the same thing. It felt like Twilight was some kind of pre-teen mom.

In my headcannon, I always imagined Twilight Velvet taking care of Spike while Twilight was attending class, but the comic didn't have Twilight's mom too involved with Spike, either. Same goes for Celestia, save for her initially seeing to his needs immediately following his being hatched.

Employee? Really? That's a funny option

If you think about his role as an assistant, then the employer-employee relationship makes sense. In fact, every time Twilight asks Spike to take a letter to Celestia it casts him in more of a secretarial role than a friend or family member. And then there's his cooking - he's also the household chef. And maid.

If it weren't for all the scenes where they're shown as very tight and close-knit, employee would actually be the most apt categorization for him.

I voted mother/son, though I see him fulfilling the employee and closest friend roles as well. I think that's why the show hasn't specified it - it's this weird, beautiful little thing they have going on together that defies categorization.

Even though I'm out in the country, I live a mile or two from I-90. It's far enough away not to be much of a bother, though at night with the bedroom windows open I can hear the vehicles driving along it.

Recently they started a major multi-year expansion to convert the section I live by from 4-lanes to 6-lanes, so I will have to find alternate routes to get anywhere once the ramps start closing.

One of the nice things about being near an interstate is you get a couple of decent fast food restaurants at the exits, so if I feel like fast food I can make a 10 minute trip to go grab some despite being in the middle of nowhere.