brambleshadow4

I don't know. "Babs Seed", "Hearts as Strong as Horses", and "We'll make our mark" are all phenomenal.

Dropping my comments Kyoshi mentions Discord’s use of magical mischief and its effect on the overall episode, and I think this is a valid critique of not just this episode, but every Discord episode following “Keep Calm and Flutter On.” But while Discord’s magic is almost always unnecessary, it’s also the one thing that differentiates Discord from all other characters. After all, Discord was defined to be the spirit of disharmony back in season 2, and with disharmony comes total chaos. Dropping this characteristic would make Discord feel less like Discord, but at the same time, isn’t he supposed to be reformed? I don’t know where I personally would draw the line between what’s too much and what isn’t enough (though this episode nailed the balance for me). If we want to venture off into speculation, I suppose that Discord’s actions could be interpreted as nothing more than a performance. Depending on whom he’s with and what happens around him, he reacts to it in order to elicit the greatest response from those he’s around. This makes him the ultimate troll lord, which in turn makes me ask if he keeps up the performance when there’s no pony around to see it. Really, I don’t think I’d ever tell Discord to turn it down a notch unless it was getting in the way of the story, though it’s hard to determine whether anything Discord does could actually do this. As long as he doesn’t filibuster for more than a minute, the story will always move onwards, and whether pro Discord or not, you’re not stuck with one gag for too long. ph00tbag here provides a really interesting take on Discord not too dissimilar from my own idea of Discord’s nature being more of a performance than genuine style, though I hadn’t considered that particular part of Discord’s performance to be fabricated. But then, besides messing around with other characters, how could we ever really know what Discord actually likes? He seems more of the type to leave others guessing than to actually reveal his true self. If Discord is trying to conform and act like your typical Equestrian stallion, who is he looking to as a reference? Spike and Big Mac are the only two male characters we see often, and it’s probably safe to assume with all their secret whispering that their Ogre and Oubliettes game is probably not considered normal. But then, if we take Friendship is Magic #11 (the comic) into consideration, the whole O&O thing is probably more common that we’d expect. In our world, D&D’s popularity is only growing, to the point that it also probably isn’t considered a weird thing. Given the fact that there’s also probably a lot of MLP fans who are also roleplaying fans, it’s even possible to interpret the opposite as true. Thus Spike and Big Mac would be conforming to stereotypes from our world while Discord actually breaks them by wanting to do something different. Especially with D&D and roleplay’s popularity on the internet, I tend to consider Big Mac & Spike’s behavior more normal than Discord’s. Either way, it’s likely that the audience will feel connected to one group or the other which in turn makes the episode feel more relatable, so it’s a plus either way. But, Zantetsuken, isn’t this really the entire point of Friendship is Magic? Simply getting to watch our favorite ponies learn and grow throughout mostly normal experiences in their lives? I don’t know what most think of earlier seasons, but seasons one and two really thrived on these kind of experiences. Almost every episode started out as either a day at work, or a day off from it, but from there they always branch away the normal and into what’s actually meaningful. Sometimes, the transition is due to an event taking place, but sometimes it’s just a conversation that starts the ball rolling. I also think that as the seasons keep coming, most tend to forget that episodes don’t need to have world exploring or entire new races/species introduced in order to be good. Sometimes, all that’s needed are small interactions and gestures between different characters. For instance, nothing really happens in “Amending Fences;” it’s just Twilight talking and hanging out with her old friends in Canterlot. Yet this episode ended up being loved by many fans, and it has everything to do with the way Twilight and Moondancer interact with each other. This is what I think “Dungeons and Discords” was aiming for, a compelling story based on the interactions between Discord, Spike, and Big Mac. The game, although aforementioned by the title, is really secondary, as I believe it also is in real life. It’s not so much the game itself, but whom you play it with, that is the source of the enjoyment (of course, you can also like the game objectively, but if you can’t find any friends to play it with, you’re still out of luck). Also, if the episode’s really trash, why rate it 5.5/10? Hey you! Did you actually read through this? If so, you also might like this

You're essentially accusing me of comparing someone/something to a Nazi, and that isn't what I did (I substituted in the word "Nazi" to show how the lyrics could be used to justify anything, e.g. Nazism), so naturally I'm going to rebuke your claim. Anyways, we're not getting anywhere closer to understanding each other. I don't think there's anything more I can say to help you see my perspective; all you've told me is that I've "willfully ignored" aspects which I haven't, time after time, so I can't tell if you're considering my thoughts or are blindly discrediting them. Goodbye ph00t. Maybe next time we'll reach an understanding, but for now there's nothing more I can do.

So it looks like we're using two different definitions of Godwin's law. According to Mr. Godwin (source) the law is "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one" (comparison bolded for emphasis). Interpret that how you will, but in my original argument I do not compare (and compare is the key word) anything to Hitler or Nazism to anything, so I have not "lost" any debate by the means of Godwin's law. And, yes, by the episode's end, it clearly is about Spike, but that's not the problem I have with the episode. Allow me to break it down step by step, as I feel we're missing each other. My problem is with the conclusion not being about Thorax, or alternatively, the rising action not being about Spike. Don't get me wrong, from early on we know all about Spike's reputation. However, it's not a source of conflict then, rather, it's more of an annoyance. When Spike meets Thorax, he has no problem with risking his reputation to help his friend, so the only conflict is between Thorax and the other ponies. This conflict continues to build as the guards laugh at Spike telling them about his changeling friend. It comes to a breaking point when Thorax's identity is discovered. We see the ponies's anger, and changeling-pony tension is higher than ever. This is also when Spike's reputation comes in. His denial adds another conflict, so now it's Thorax vs. Ponies (+Spike momentarily) but also Spike vs. Self as he considers the weight of his actions for himself politically. While we've seen Spike mention his reputation, before it has been a source of strength, not doubt, so it's a bit of a 180 degree turn. It's a good plot twist, but it is a twist, and this conflict is not one that was not present in Spike's first meeting with Thorax (the other one was). When we arrive at the final scene, the conflict between Thorax and ponies continues to rise, but Spike's conflict is mostly internal now. He's made his mistake, he's regretted it, and he's now doing the right thing by correcting his early mistake. In some sense, his conflict is already resolved; all that's left is facilitating the final confrontation between the ponies and Thorax. Spike can only undo his wrong by making Thorax's conflict right, and he needs to step in as a mediator to resolve the conflict between the parties. And that's what's missing at the end, because Spike doesn't sing a song vouching for Thorax's acceptance. Instead, he vocalizes his internal conflict through song without addressing any of the legitimate reasons for why the conflict exists between Thorax and the ponies. None of them know about Thorax and Spike's relationship, and by song's end they still don't know anything about it. While it does bring a nice close to Spike's internal drama, it doesn't address the Changeling in the room, and this conflict (which again, has been built up through out the entire episode) simply abates without reason. That's what I mean when I say the conflict is inconsistent; it starts one place, then adds another dimension, but never adequately concludes the original conflict ( which it could have done, if they chose for the song to not be about Spike, or if they dropped the song altogether). I know you're going to tell me ph00t that Spike's conflict was present all along, but was it really? Where do we see Spike struggle (and I mean struggle, not being annoyed ) with his reputation? We see Thorax's struggle immediately, but Spike's doesn't seem to show up until near the end. Anyways, I hope I've made myself clear where I see the start and end of each conflict, and why their ordering makes me see the episode as one not about Spike's conflict, but about Thorax's. I also want to point out that just because the episode is through Spike's eyes, doesn't mean that the conflict need be centered on him. Novels like "The Great Gatsby" are good example of this; the novel's about Gatsby, but it's through the eyes of his neighbor, Nick Carraway. With MLP:FiM frequently introducing more and more characters, I don't think it would be strange to utilize this tactic.

Oh please. If you've written a thesis about Godwin's law, I'll gladly read it, but don't tell me I'm calling anyone a Nazi merely because I used the term. "Thorax's presence is the motivation behind the episodes actual story." That's the problem; if one conflict is the primary reason why another smaller conflict happens, and the two happen simultaneously, why wast time exploring the smaller conflict? From the above post, it sounds like we both agree that the conflict involving Thorax is incoherent, which is problematic, as the majority of the episode's screen time is with regards to the changeling conflict. If the episode spent significantly less time involved with Thorax and more with Spike struggling with his position, then it would make sense to interpret the episode as about Spike. But the episode didn't do that, it chose to have the conflict regarding Thorax be the one that builds the tension, and so we should expect the climax and resolution to be about that same conflict. You know, basic Freytag's pyramid. We can drop the "personal" if you like; we'll know if it's actually personal or not next time Thorax & Cadance makes an appearance (after all, some ponies like Starlight Glimmer do go directly from enemy to close friend. We need another episode to see what's actually genuine)

Discussions only end when one party decides they wish to discuss no more. Also, I did not compare anyone or anything to Hitler or Nazism, I merely used those words as alternate lyrics to demonstrate potential problems with the song. Rest assured, we haven't proved Mr. Godwin right yet. It's very easy to interpret the episode as being about the changeling conflict, because apart from Spike complaining about his status before the theme song, every conflict after that is with regards to the changeling; the city's abandoned because of the changeling, the Crystal ponies are freaking out because of the changeling, they go out and search for changelings because there's a changeling, and so forth. So yes, there are hints of a conflict over Spike's status at the beginning, but the narrative is moved forward by the conflict with the changeling, not the conflict with Spike's status and reputation. I'm not "subconsciously downplaying" anything; there's just more content and conflict regarding the changeling, making this the main conflict. And the transition in the episode isn't from "get out or die" to "maybe we won't kill you or kick you out," it's from enemy of the state (as Changelings have always been considered enemies of ponykind) to personal friend of the Princess (as Cadance personally went to become friends with Thorax). And that is a big leap, and yes it deserved to be explored more fully. It's also a lot more interesting than Spike's status, so I don't know why the writers would want to cut that short.

I know what you mean. The ND and MD (as we like to call nightly and morning discussions) have always been like that. There's almost never any actual discussion there, as the title is more of a misnomer than anything. Still, it can be fun as long as you're okay with people posting random (and objectively terrible) comments 24/7 There's also a secret discussion on EQD that tends to be much better than the ND and MD, but it's secret (in order to keep the ND/MD people from finding it). There's no way to find it until you accidentally do so.

It was just announced a few hours today that EQD is now hosting their own own mlp forums. Source: http://www.equestriadaily.com/2016/08/after-years-of-requests-equestria-daily.html I'm not quite sure what to make of this news, as I've always thought of the MLP forums as the place for MLP forums (jeez, I wonder why), and while I've only made an account just recently on this site, I'm still annoyed that now EQD is trying to, I don't know, steal the traffic of this site? The whole thing's just really weird, as it looks like it's only going to further divide the fandom into subfandoms rather than bring it together as one community. Anways, as the MLP forum community, I'm wondering what you think about this news.

As with all episodes that the fandom likes at large, I tend to have many bones to pick with it. However, this doesn’t change the fact that many are ecstatic with it. Mind you, I really could have picked any post on the forum to respond to, but I’m going to respond to Dark Quivit’s because: a) our preferences for episodes are pretty much complete opposite, and b ) as I’ve read several of Quivit’s posts criticizing episodes I enjoy, I think it’s only fair for me to do likewise every once and a while. That said, I disagree with Dark Quivit, though I don’t think the episode is bad, though compared to what we’ve seen from earlier episodes, I’d put it in the 33rd percentile (i.e. 2/3 of episode are better). It’s true that Thorax is cute and that the audience can relate to him, and it’s true that Spike exerts a benevolent character, but lots of characters from the show are cute, relatable, and sympathetic, so what’s the big deal? For me, it is the delivery of the narrative and its conflict that determine the quality of an episode In terms of conflict though, “The Times They Are a Changeling” is all over the place. The primary conflict starts out as one centered around Thorax not being able to have friends due to his changeling nature, but by episode’s end it’s all about Spike’s reputation and him regretting mistakes. Somewhere between the 15 minute mark and the end, all the interesting nuances of having to interact with a friendly changeling are scrapped to deliver a story about Spike and denial. It’s upsetting, because the story undermines any themes of trying to understand pariahs in favor of focusing more on redeeming Spike for his pitfalls. So in the end, it’s not even about Thorax or inclusivity at all; it’s about “risking reputation in the name of friendship.” This is especially true in the song, as this is the one moment where Spike should be explaining to the others why they should treat Thorax kindly. But instead providing any explanation, he merely confesses “That sometimes I’m scared and I can make mistakes / And I’m not so heroic, it seems.” Never mind the fact he’s confessing to the wrong characters, it’s still completely irrelevant. Spike just said, “No, he’s not a thing. His name is Thorax, and he’s my friend,” so you would expect the song to explain to the others why Spike is friends with a changeling, but he never does. Instead, they all just roll with his confession, accept his conclusion without question, and any issue with Thorax being a changeling is dropped altogether. None of this makes any logical sense. In other words, While I think DJ is being a little blunt, the point’s completely valid. Spike’s confessional song at the end of the episode doesn’t close the can of worms opened up by Thorax’s existence; something more is needed to justify all of ponykind accepting him besides Spike’s word. However, this doesn’t necessarily mean we have to get rid of the song, just change the lyrics. After all, other songs like Equestria Girls manage to be both meaningful and persuasive. For instance, the lyrics “Hey, hey, everybody we’ve got something to say / We may seem as different as the night is from day / But you look a little deeper and you will see / That I’m just like you and you’re just like me.” not only sound pretty, but also imply that the humans in EG have a lot in common and are capable of uniting together for a common purpose. On the other hand, the lyrics from “The Times They are a Changeling” “But if day can turn to night and the darkness turn to light / Then why can’t we imagine a changeling can change?” might sound pretty, but a pretty analogy doesn’t say anything about Thorax’s character. For instance, we could use the same analogy to “imagine a Nazis that’s nice.” Anyways, Takai’s comment brings up an interesting question in my mind: is Thorax actually accepted at the episode’s end? Because all those lines like “If Spike says Thorax is his friend, then he’s my friend too” could just be empty words. Princess Cadance’s “I would like to extend my hoof in friendship” especially sounds a lot more like something a politician would say than a close friend, and as they all are Royalty/second-tier, they still need to maintain those diplomatic relations. Even if they weren’t really friends, they’d still probably say that they were. Disregarding any cynical interpretations of Equestrian politics, I think there’s a lot more to acceptance than merely saying “We’re friends,” though this phrase or similar seems to be uttered more and more often. Between the yaks of season five and the dragons of season six, it seems to be a go-to phrase used whenever the writers have no other way of convincing us that the two parties are indeed friends, and I find is detrimental to the show. After all, friendship is magic, not saying “we’re friends” is magic, and friendship is built through actions, not words alone. We know through Spike’s actions that he’s accepted Thorax for who he is, but I don’t think we can make that judgement call for Twilight and the others quite yet. I’m sure they all will live by their words, but until they do, those words don’t mean that much, for better or for worse. ------ All quotes on this post were also shared on my pony blog: http://aboutthemponies.tumblr.com/post/149434213210/responses-from-the-forums-the-times-they-are-a

I agree in full, and hopefully we do get to see some of the under developed ideas in future episodes ( I haven't looked at any episode names or synopses, so I have no idea what to expect out of the rest of the season). And a slumber party in Twilight's Castle would totally be the best thing ever! MLP WRITERS YOU MUST DO THIS!