Ninjaed

Well then...

Had a bit of trouble understanding what you meant about blank histories and all at first. Well I'd say it's proof that her character has grown since, but if we were to erase her history, we'd have to decide between evil Starlight or good Starlight. If evil Starlight, I think there's no real problem. If good Starlight...you'd have a pony who has trouble associating with others, who tries to avoid doing what she doesn't like, who switches between a confident persona and a more insecure persona when dealing with situations she can't deal with too well (and creating trouble sometimes but like everypony).

In short, a pony content with staying in her "comfort zone" and growing really insecure when not, yet eye-ing the friends she could have were she to leave it. So...it'd work. I don't really see a problem so far, and such a character is interesting to have in a story, not to mention it'd necessarily involve the others and thus give them screentime and development. Pinkie's turn - she could show she's not just an hyperactive party pony, she can also listen to a friend's woes and help them feel better about themselves. A slightly more serious Pinkie when the times demand it.

Hmm and put like that, Starlight's closer to a Fluttershy than a Twilight - yet different from both. Just like AJ and RD share similarities, but also with other ponies yet retain their own unique traits.

If you recall, I actually said Tibia overshadowing Chrysalis was a fear I had, in my later posts at least. Precisely because I couldn't disprove her usefulness there. But there are points we'd have missed with just Tibia and a lack of Starlight. Regardless, as far as Chrysalis is concerned, Tibia could have brought some elements Thorax likely won't be able to.

I'd just like to state some point I've consciously realised now in another thread, on the topic of Chrysalis. Starlight and Chrysalis have a BIG parallel going on. Both were "dictators", well-intentioned extremists who did what they thought was best at the time to bring happiness to their subjects. Then an interloper comes into the picture (Twilight and Thorax) and ruins everything, making their subjects undero a "transformation" and turning against them. Then, unable to cope with the situation, both ran away with revenge in their minds. It's likely why Starlight is the one made to extend her hoof to Chrysalis in the finale. That's something major Tibia the Buttkicker misses.

Your third point I agree with. That's not something the writers should do often. It has to be done sparingly and with reasons. So far that's what the writers have done, and they seem to know when not to or when to dismiss one, like Flash Sentry. They've always used side characters until now, and Starlight is pretty much the first one to break this. As of yet, I'd have preferred a couple more episodes with Starlight where she'd help Mane 6 characters show another facet of themselves, like Pinkie earlier.

But with what they meant to accomplish this season and finale with Starlight, I can understand why they haven't...yet. This season was basically Starlight trying to handle her reformed self as best she could, unsure whether she'd truly changed as much as she thought she had. The finale has broadened her "comfort zone" and that's why I'm thinking we'll see a bit of those kinds of episodes in the future, where she helps develop others as much as she gets development. That's something everyone wants to see - episodes where Starlight allows the Mane 5 to shine. Well, except Starlight haters I suppose. :awuh:

The parallel between Starlight and Chrysalis is awesome, they are both dictators, their people are against them and they are hungry for revenge, and will Chrysalis be reformed? Time will tell.

This parallel is one of the reasons that make me think Chrysalis truly wanted the best for her people but was misguided. I know some said her refusal showed that she was truly evil, but I wouldn't say so. Just like Starlight wanted to bring happiness to the ponies in her village, Chrysalis wanted to provide her subjects with the only way she knew how to gain love.

Twilight came and showed them a new way => revolution.

Thorax came and showed them a new way => revolution.

And then Chrysalis fled, still unable to process all this and in complete denial - just like Starlight did. I think that's why they had Starlight try and reach out for her instead of anypony else.

PS: thanks Lambda, hadn't consciously realised this point at all until now

To be honest, one issue I always had with the idea of bringing the Dazzlinngs back was that, seeing as we only got one movie a year, I'd rather focus on new villains as opposed to wasting our yearly film on old ones. But now that we're getting 3 of these "specials" next year, I have no issue with them bringing them back for one of them, since we'll have two more specials for new, original villains.

Think that might be one of the reasons they decided to make EQG specials instead of a full-length EQG film this year?

https://twitter.com/orangemeerkat/status/592035419245514752 Here's a tweet from the episode's writer mentioning it had a "Bigger message", which supports the theory it was an allegory for death, though doesn't state it outright. I seem to remember it being said straight up that it was about that, but I can't find that so maybe my memory is mistaken.

She also says this though: https://twitter.com/orangemeerkat/status/593920494857953280

As evidenced with Starlight, even a friend leaving for another place is felt pretty much the same for children and they have to cope with loss. The episode was dealing about this. Now if people see it about death, I say "sure why not". It's the same feeling of loss after all.

 Well, there was a funeral in "Hearts and Hooves day", and Sombra got blown up...then came back in the comics, but if you ignore that, it's pretty much an on-screen death.

 

 However, they don't seem to want them to do any "Serious" tackling of death, at best we get something like "Tanks for the Memories" where hibernation is basically used as a metaphor for death, or Twilight crying over Celestia in one of the season 4 flashback's where she obviously thinks Celestia is dead but it's never stated.

 

 Basically, they can get death in, just they can't be too obvious or forward with it, at best it's just hinted at, or they use an allegory for it.

Hmm do you mean Tank will never be back in the show? I'd never considered the hibernation to be a metaphor for death, just a lesson about facing reality and accepting to move on. And for the Celestia thing, I don't think she'd thought Celestia to be dead, but I suppose that's a YMMV case

I've seen some of the nasty comments that were posted on his twitter account and it shames me to know that there are those in the fandom who would act like that. Why not just appreciate what we're getting instead of complaining because certain things aren't being brought up in the show?

 

Is that how it works with Hasbro and the writers? Okay, that does make more sense than what I said, but I'd like to think there are some things Hasbro will view as off-limits because of the nature of MLP.

Yeah, pretty sure there's some checking, just in case there's something judged inappropriate or whatever. Censorship is magic, too.

Honestly, Starlight Glimmer went from my least favorite pony to my second favorite pony only trailing Dashie throughout the course of Season 6. I have NEVER felt that way about a character I used to hate so much.

 

I haven't seen the finale yet, but if Starlight doesn't become the sixth Alicorn Princess by the time Season 7 is over, I would be REALLY dissapointed.

Don't know about alicorn status, so far she doesn't seem to have a purpose that would warrant it. Maybe in the future, she will find one and it will give her a reason to become one, but she still has a long way before her. First order of things - not being so socially awkward and trying not to tunnel vision so much :ninja:

I love Glimmy so much!

 

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You and me both

Alas for her, the world is a cruel one indeed:

"Oh it's for little girls? I can't like or watch it then."

Nah, if I like something, I don't exactly care. I won't stop liking it or watching it because of...of something that I've known since even before I started watching it, in fact 

... After losing 4 times my whole post due to weird computer crashes (found the problem), spending more than 2 hours on it, lacking sleep and all, I'll be brief...

Say, mind taking care of Goat-kun's demand for rare Pepes? Sweet, you're awesome!

Can't remember exactly what I wrote, but the gist of it was: many people welcomed the change in the finale. Not having the Mane 6 was refreshing and made it far more unpredictible, as the cast was different. However, Starlight as the new main character? Nah. She's dark a horse, and turning a dark horse into a main character is a good recipe for failure. Not to mention you can't "write off" a main character who's had 6 seasons worth of development just like that. Especially not in a slife of life cartoon.

Me so sad...

Draco would become the protagonist as he's off to save Harry Potter and the others. After that, it'd be back to normal, with Harry Potter as the  main character. Making Draco become the main character even after that wouldn't make much sense.

Twilight can do stuff without her friends of course, but she's very verrrry clearly at her best when with them.. And Starlight, self-sufficient? By having to rely on Trixie's tricks, Discord's personality and Thorax's shapeshifting ability? Huh. I guess I had the wrong definition of self-sufficient. She's far from it and currently needs others, in fact.

"Rebelious" teens are not that rebelious, they're merely in search of themselves. It's an identity crisis they're trying to overcome. Right now, Starlight is the same. You're talking about caricaturing and you're right. Right now, Starlight is the socially awkward ditzy genius (at magic) type, who's trying to do good but mostly causes trouble instead. But while the Mane 6 have "positive" caricatures, Starlight is stuck with a mainly negative one for now. But just like our main characters, this will be explored and will give more depth to this character, eventually giving her a more positive caricature trait. As I've said, it's if they don't do that that there'll be an issue.

And Lightning Dust, it's a good point in that she's been created as similar to another character (Rainbow Dash here), but in an antagonistic way. The thing is, Lightning Dust is an example of how could have Rainbow Dash been had she not set the proper limits. They share an almost identical personality, with Lightning Dust being simply more extreme.

On the other hand, however "similar" Starlight may be, she's not "almost identical" to Twilight. She's not an egghead for one, doesn't share this crazy need for lists and organising everything, going on the fly instead, she's also more "seductive" instead of adorkable, is pushed into doing stuff instead of eagerly going for it, tries to run away instead of facing her responsibilities, the list goes on...

It did seem like Starlight just forgot about Twilight, there.

As silly as it may sound, this is exactly what happened... It didn't even cross Starlight's mind Twilight might have been talking about herself in a "roundabout" way. So she took it as face value, as a "friendship lesson" and thus didn't even think of Twilight nor Spike as a candidate. Nor any of the Mane 6, really.

As for the rest of what Dark Qiviut said, I agree with argument 1 but some found there was too much Starlight already. A bit of a delicate issue, though it doesn't change the fact this would have certainly helped tell a more believable story for those who dislike off-screen happenings. Argument 3, well...Twilight visibly didn't have a clue as to what happened, so either ambush or "ponied out" during the night.  Wouldn't have cost much to have Chrysalis add, as she was revealing her plan, that she'd finally readied her plan to capture them while asleep. Oh well.

The changelings were exchanging glances all the while Chrysalis was using Starlight as her personal ragdoll. Seed of doubt planted, Thorax happened who was accepted, didn't have to fight constantly and apparently didn't feel hunger, and then he transforms! Not too surprising they'd be giving it a shot after a life of suffering from hunger.

I'll have to decline, also taking the train soon so keeping this short.

Worf effect, as any trope, is neither good nor bad by itself. It all depends on how it's used. And making the viewers understand the main characters are not made out of scearium is imho not a bad thing at all. Your finale example does the same thing, except there was no "reinforcements". Also, its genre isn't the same at all. The MLP season 6 finale opens up a TON of possibilitites, so does Starlight. And you're already seeing fans theorising away on both this finale and season 7.

Also, it hasn't brought this dissatisfaction and all you're speaking of because it wasn't focusing on the Mane 6, but because of other elements. One of them being Starlight, another being the lack of capture scene to keep the mystery that the changelings were back. So not beause it wasn't focusing on the Mane 6 at all. In fact, even you aren't. Your complaint is that it focuses on Starlight. Draco having to save Harry? Well sure, that'd have been a riot - of positiveness that is. The irony of the situation would have been golden! But "the very end"? MLP isn't over, you know?

Twilight resorted to manipulation a few times...well yes. Never denied this, actually admitted it even. BUT Starlight is on a whole other level, she didn't manipulate a few measly times over the course of 6 seasons, but over the course of ONE season. Though it's true it's not enough to define a character. Good thing that's not all she is. Again, she's like a child right now. She's the Straight Mare and the "rebelious teen" of the group, even. Sometimes she will not even question Twilight even if it displeases her, other times she will stand her ground and not back down.

And right now, she's lost as to what she wants to do. Many people can relate to that, especially the teens (eff the system!). All ponies know what they'll do, except her. She doesn't "belong" and is in the process of trying to. She represents several things the other ponies cannot. Her most unique trait so far? Thinking how she should approach other ponies. She's doing it for almost everypony except Twilight, Spike...and Trixie. And when she doesn't, she's trying to please (Twilight), trying to find approbation/empathy (Trixie) or venting (Spike). She's mostly defined by how she's trying to interact with others because - again - is trying to belong.

What makes her great so far is in part this process and how it'll reveal her personality little by little. Her greatest passion is magic, but it cannot be all there is to her, in other words it's paving the way for many episodes. It's also paving the way for more Twilight characterisation. In No Second Prances for instance, Twilight comes to realise she had let herself be guided by her apprehension toward Trixie. She did have good reasons, and did patch things up between the two of them, but this experience is reminding her to try to understand, trust others and give them a chance, instead of trying to have everything go according to what she'd planned.

Oh hey, a similarity with Starlight!! Well yeah... They share similarities. Can't deny that. But does sharing similarities make a character inherently bad? In terms of abilities, as I've pointed out earlier, Starlight is adept at creating new "spells" while Twilight is better at analysing spells. She's also waaay more resourceful and creative than anypony else, as evidenced by her use of Trixie's tricks and Discord's personality. I doubt Twilight would have been able to pull the same thing off. She'd have had to rely on the rest of the Mane 6 but not in as creative a way.

So Starlight does bring new abilities to the cast. Her personality is also different from any other, Twilight being the closest. Even then, you cannot say Starlight is a Twilight clone, unless in bad faith. Just watch a Starlight episode, imagine her being Twilight, and you'll be forced to realise this is not a Twilight clone. Her reactions and thought process are just way too different.

Lightning Dust is a good point you make, but I'm lacking time right now, I'm sorry. I'll be back

I don't know, I always imagined them as desperately trying to get by, Sonana as a waitress being a possibility yes. With this influx of magic, maybe some will go to them, but I don't think they'd try a plan that has already failed once. Adagio might be hellbent on revenge, but Sonata not so much after being put through such hard times, and Aria would disagree with Adagio's plan, making them split up. The Mane 7 would then meet a sad Sonata who would tell them of what happened and beg them to try and help them, not wanting any more suffering for her friends.

Then they'd have a confrontation with say Adagio - who sees Sonata with them. Cue some "traitor" speech and off she goes to finish her plan. Then they chase her and go to interrupt her - but Aria comes in the picture. Adagio accuses Aria of being the same as Sonata, allying with Sunset and her friends. Aria denies and belittles Sonata some more. Open fight, the Mane 7 eventually moves in to stop them both but things turn more dire by the second - until Sonata steps in and "pushes" the Mane 7 away.

Adagio and Aria think she's come an ally, but nope. She turns and lectures them before finally darting away in tears and heartbroken to see her friends fight. Adagio and Aria both stop fighting, look at each other and agree they've both been pretty terrible friends, and dash away after Sonata, giving the Mane 7 some "no time for you" line.

The Mane 7 of course goes after them and they seem them reuiniting, but don't want to intrude. After that sentimental moment where they bond together again, Sonata notices the Mane 7 and both apologises and thanks them. Adagio and Aria wait, tell Sonata that despite this, they're still not done and that the Mane 7 had better be ready for the next time - and they walk away after giving a "but...well, thanks" line, hinting they're past this and the next time they meet, the sirens might not be that antagonistic anymore.

PS: oops, didn't mean to fanfic here, my bad

I love her expressions! They are adorable!

 

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I love her so much! :wub:

I think I find her the most "human" and relatable of all. She has her strengths but also her flaws, and while many are just going happily about life, she's constantly concerned with how the others view her. That's not uncommon in our world, at all!

But when she's able not to concern herself with that, we can see the real her and she's just sooo cute at those times! Makes you want to cuddle her, and see more of her true self

I made sure my riku plushie watched glimmer shine this saterday's episode.

 

He's kind of a glimmer like character, himself, anyways xD

You sure love your Riku plushie don't you?

Starlight Glimmer the mighty:

Cute Starlight with her umbrella:

I will be back:

The humiliation:

So in my opinion, yeah, it's totally possible Celestia was replaced way before the finale even started, by a Changeling with yellow magic and a great skill in imitating her (quite possibly achieved by spying on her and learning as much about her as possible to avoid detection).

With at least 3 seasons to spy on her, that wouldn't really surprise me. The changeling replacing Twilight was actually rather convincing, so that would certainly support this spying theory... Oh wait!! Wasn't that changeling's magic the same colour as Twilight's?!

There's something I'd been wondering and someone posted what I'd been wondering in that other thread about the season 6 finale - could Celestia have been already captured by the time No Second Prances takes place? Celestia was acting really bored and annoyed then which was completely out of character, but completely in character for a changeling fraud. The only issue I'd have is that her magic was still yellow but...your thoughts?

Problem is, they had enough trouble cramming everything into this two-parter as is, with some elements lacking in fact. Adding a new member to the MLP Suicide Squad would have been impossible without taking away from what has been given to us in this finale.

Lot of stuff

One thought I've had with changed-lings is...well, not just one. First, can they still shapeshift? Can their need be satiated with just changed-lings sharing love with one another or does it require another race? But most importantly...

Can they regress?

I haven't seen this question asked anywhere, but what if a changed-ling lacked the love to sustain his evolved form and regressed back to this parasitic form? Or what if a changeling sucked it all out and forced a regression?

Flurry Heart is an exception since she is still just a baby despite having immense magical power.

Immense, we don't know yet. Flurry Heart, as a baby, doesn't know restraint, yet she couldn't so much as scratch anypony's magic shield with her full-power laser beams. Also, her power is now somewhat under control, thanks to Sunburst having added in some control spell when reforming the Crystal Heart.

Bleah, a froggy! Not doing it!

I meant during the season. Premiere and finale are a special case, and yes Starlight had a prominent role in both of them, as it was her first season as a recurrent character. Main (Mane?) character, this yet remains to be seen, but...she'll be back

Putting a main character in a damsel-in-distress situation is actually a somewhat widespread way to spark emotions in the viewers, as well as a stronger version of the Worf effect. That way, you can give other characters a turn. And yes, if they introduced Starlight as a recurrent character, it's quite clear they have plans for her. That's why she 'overshadowed' the Mane 6 in the premiere and finale. It wasn't just for the kicks, like "I'm bored...guess I'll simply throw in some random OC, might be fun".

We've seen a bit of Twilight's teaching issues in her perspective, but not enough, it's true. They didn't have the luxury to both give Starlight time to introduce her character to the viewers and have Twilight pondering about how to teach. So they favoured Starlight for several reasons, and Twilight had reduced time for this particular point.

I think this is bound to change though. Having an episode on Twilight's perspective unable to understand why Starlight is reacting badly as she's trying to teach her is a good idea for an episode, or part of it at least.

As for her personality...

What BasementGlimmer said.

I'd add Twilight hasn't really shown any real manipulative aspect. Just the usual amount, everypony has a bit of it. Starlight is much, much more. Also has anger management issues, as she can go from smiling to annoyed in the blink of an eye. And as I've pointed out in previous posts, whereas Twilight is earnest and eager, Starlight is the opposite, trying to avoid non magic-related tasks. She only shows her perfectionnist side when forced to and when she does, her anxiety disorder starts acting up - just look at how she was behaving in that "chillaxing friendship lesson".

In short, she's trying to behave the way she thinks others will accept her, instead of acting the way she truly is. Right now, her behaviour is much like a child's. She's right in that learning and personality-forming process. The risk is that nothing comes to fill that void as she grows out of it, much like Sunset so far. She'd still have her unique personality mind you, but it needs to have more clear-cut aspects too.

I'm not hating on Sunset, alas for you! But it'd be in bad faith to say she has a clear and unique personality right now. We don't know that much about her, what she enjoys doing for instance. Starlight shares a bit that issue, though it's quite clear she loves messing with magic. And not à la Twilight, by studying spells and learning to cast them, no. By mixing them together and seeing what happens.

Oh I loved this episode I mean discord,trixie,and thorax although I was hoping they would use some townsponies so we would have another set of six...Now excuse me while I scrape the rainbow puke from the "Pwetty changlings" off my recliner... Someone please tell me they aren't keeping pastel changlings..at least Luna was ok in this episode (I'm normally not a Luna fan but that was Ok).. *sigh* this would have been the perfect episode to switch into a new "mane" cast (yes I'm one of those people) but that ever sorry for the rant...

Rant away, we're pretty much all here for that (and to show our love for this show)