J.J

On 2022-12-11 at 1:32 PM, Sun Dash Note said:

Mixed. My dad thinks I'm treating My Little Pony like a religion, because I'm watching an episode everyday. He thinks that the show is stupid (he has never seen it I think btw) and that I'm putting it below the god. (I'm Christian btw.).

Humans like ritual behaviors, idk how devout a Christian you are, but I'm guessing it's pretty safe to assume that you were brought up in that environment and your dad is a very religious person himself, maybe he expects ritual concessions for God and not just a cartoon show, but I think that would probably be enforced on you if that were the case, I think the fact that you even get to watch My Little Pony says he's trying to understand you more than you think... I think that he knows trying to make rules against it would hurt his relationship with you and his own cause in the end...

I think that you shouldn't force the issue, I know it's probably unfair to assume that of me, but I think it's probably safe to assume you want his and others validation in your watching it, and it's something he would rather not be a part of.. 

Give it time this later will just become an absolute he will be forced to accept if his hopes of it "just being a phase" don't come to fruition

29 minutes ago, Moonlight said:

i don't have any tattoos but i've always been interested in getting one eventually.

if i had to pick a franchise to get one based off of then i'd probably pick animal crossing, it's been a huge comfort thing for me since the original american gamecube release.

as for what....probably something related to celeste and/or blathers since theyre my faves tbh

Loveeee Animal Crossing, I'll probably eventually get an AC that some day, it will probably be Nook, or the leaf logo at the very least 

I'm a lot less political than I seem, there's just to many problems with the world that entail being political to create actual resolutions for 

It's never one person or the other, that "all the world's a stage" shit is in line with "fake it till you make it" 

7 minutes ago, Kujamih said:

I hate it when they call themselves a fan.... And didnt even finish the show. I dont care about anyones opinion, i can accept you are a fan even if you hated half the show, but if you didnt watch the whole show.... Now that is questionable.

I really tend to feel the same way...

And I just can't say anything because it alienates me from literally half the people in the fandom sadly...

I want to give them the chance to finish it, but I literally think some people just think ponies are cute, are able to draw them and are using the fandom to further their social career for notability, I mean, it you can draw ponies great, this fandom can use you, but exaggerating your love for ponies while questioning others authenticity is wrong and you should face scrutiny yourself for doing this 

2 minutes ago, Props ValRoa said:

@J.J

We are not discussing other villains here. We are discussing Starlight. I would gladly discuss other villains in other places, but this is about Starlight. The ponies were complacent and weak minded, yes, but in the end, they were abused by Starlight - who is responsible for organizing the whole idea. Starlight's cutie mark swapping and removal ability is one of the more dangerous things in the show. Sure, you may destroy the world, but Starlight? She had the capacity, and the intent to define what the world was, through how she sought out to be in charge of how society should run - which goes against the natural order of the world. Ponies aren't mean to be equal. They are meant to pursue their own individuality and their own types of magic. Starlight's ideology is the antithesis to what occurs in the nature of the world, and she had more than enough power to back it up.

The town was simply too small for her power. She needed to have a massive city or something dedicated to her ideology. She has the largest power level of any other character in the show with the exception of Discord, Twilight, and the Alicorns. 

Bad writing. 

I agree with the facts surrounding the statement but a lot of it is actually what make it good writing? Did we want another, "I'm so powerful, I want you to bend to my will" type of simplicity in another villain? I thought she had more philosophical edge to her than the literal god of chaos who continually proves to be one dimensional himself... But like you said "for another topic." 

She had a difference of perspective it was just held up by ",somewhat shallow back story" that you have to head Canon the details of her life between her being a filly and her being a full grown mare...look dude, she is my second favorite as a villain the show for many unique reasons, she's not a slouch, she had more capability in her premeditated resolve than ponies with literal chaos magic and alicorn magic and Tirek with all of it combined... Her intelligence being a weapon with her raw talent makes her a remarkable villain 

Good writing, people just don't like their favorite characters being dwarfed, watch Fairy Tail, it's just part of the universe, there's someone out there you don't know about that can do things you can't comprehend

2 minutes ago, Batbrony said:

 

Heheheh, I technically have two. The first one on my left shoulder is a VERY loose reference mind you, since it's not an image that most people associate with this franchise.

 

 

This is a crest from the Halo franchise associated with New Mombasa. This was one of the few images I could find that I could use here and isn't a perfect representation of the tattoo I have; mine is in an actual crest and has the words "Finish the Fight" written above it. Which is both a Halo 3 reference but also a personal creed, and something I got before my senior year of undergrad as motivation.

 

My second tattoo is something both my wife and I got based on a franchise we love, Fairy Tail. It's just the Fairy Tail emblem, but we got it after our wedding as a symbol of our ties together, seeing as the main gist of the Fairy Tail guild is that they're more a family of misfits than just a guild.

 

 

This is more or less what mine looks like and I got it on the right side of my chest. I'd love to get more tattoos in the future, and, as long as they have personal connection to me, I won't hesitate to get ones based on franchises. In fact, the next one I could most easily see getting is based on a shot from one of my favorite anime of all time, Violet Evergarden.

 

BUT, I must stress this and cannot stress it enough... make sure, whatever tattoo you get, that you're getting it for a reason that's meaningful to you. That doesn't mean it has to be deep or super emotional, tattoos can be fun and playful. But if you're just getting the tattoo because you think it looks cool, and not because it'll hold any significant meaning to YOU, it's probably a waste of time and money. This is your body and a tattoo in my mind instantly becomes a part of your story of you; that's something that should matter to you, even if most people won't see it depending on where it's at.

Yessz I also would love to have a Fairy tail symbol!!! Love seeing other Fairy Tail fans 

6 minutes ago, Props ValRoa said:

Removing their cutie marks, they likely didn't know that they were not going to be capable of magic without their cutie marks, were they? And they seemed very scared of Starlight, so perhaps they were willing...up to a point, and when they were powerless, they now were truly scared and couldn't flee.

Where would they go without their cutie marks? Starlight kept their cutie marks in a vault that they couldn't break on their own. 

What she did was cruel and unusual. There is no justifying it no matter how good of an intention she had. 

I'm not trying to justify it? I'm trying to explain it. So there's a way to justify ANYTHING that ANY of the other villains did? Starlight should be punished because she's inherently smarter but actually has the ability to feel remorse and not need to do so in the wake of mercy? Looked like they broke the vault "on their own" during their rebellion to me without any help from the mane 6, or did you forget that?

Blame Starlight for a lot, but NOT their lack of security, confidence or intelligence, they lacked that to begin with, that's the ONLY reason they would have chosen to give up something they know inherently makes them special for a random unicorn they don't know in the first place... And like I said, some may have even had great lives, and said, "this unicorn makes a lot of sense to me..." I'm going to hear her out..."  They are to blame for not asking questions, there is a good quote about this with a people not being mindful of their government being complicit to it's tyranny, there are many actually

9 minutes ago, Props ValRoa said:

And so she did the next best thing. Finding willing subjects that were weak and had low self-esteem. Preying on their fears - and then when granted the possibility, she dangerously messed with the timeline for her own ideological desires. 

You don't know anything about the background of the ponies from Our Town, you are head canoning the worst possible scenario to demonize Starlight, I'm not going to justify her altering time, but she genuinely didn't believe she would end the world by ending one circle of friends, after all she knows nothing of their former triumphs, they were literal strangers that showed up and destroyed everything she built over the course of (x) amount of time....

So we're treating the ponies of Our Town like they are helpless and mindless... Noted... Maybe that's why they rushed to a pony that so "cruelly enslaved them" lol to help them host a celebration 

1 minute ago, Props ValRoa said:

That's what I am saying, and that is exactly what makes it psychotic. Other villains were like "I have the power, obey me!", she wasn't, and that's what made her even more conniving and threatening for a villain. Her power and abilities was never explained either, where did she get it from? We'll never know. Bad writing.

See the first point in my moral retrospective, she cant accomplish what she thinks is for the greater good without the means to do so ...

On 2022-12-12 at 11:25 AM, J.J said:

MORAL INSIGHT FROM ANOTHER POST

She was by far the LEAST "evil" of all the MLP villains, her reformation means a lot to me as a person, but no, the experiences Starlight went through as a pony genuinely made her believe that what she was doing was for the greater good of all ponies. We don't get direct context as to how she persuaded the ponies that she did to partake in the project of "Our Town" but there is a lot to be said about why she wasn't honest to begin with,

 

1. Can a unicorn really even remove her own magic? Or would Starlight have to teach some spell to another unicorn to be able to accomplish doing this? We know that Starlight is LITERALLY the only pony who has ever been able to accomplish doing this? How long would it take her to teach this magic to anyone else? In doing this, that would suggest there be a never ending chain of unicorns teaching new unicorns how to perform this spell so that they all in fact could be equal? Well it's gonna be awfully hard without having magic in general to teach the spell...? How do we know all unicorns would even be capable of such a complex spell? Eventually you would hit a wall in terms of magic capability/comprehension...

 

2. Starlight NEVER, "enslaved' anypony, she manipulated them, again there is lacking context, but there is nothing to suggest she was threatening them into staying in the community with their lives, they were brainwashed, we don't have all the context as to why they decided to join "Our Town" to begin with, but obviously their lives were indeed lacking if they chose to leave them behind in trust of a unicorn they have just met... The way that the ponies of Our Town rationalize their conformity and the way they neglect to ask any questions or look for these answers despite being long term residents of the town itself says just about as much for their competence as it does for Starlight's manipulative tendencies, they were conceptually "happy" not asking these questions....

 

3. Starlight's "control bit" and quite possibly her entire obsession with magic as I have explained MANY times comes from a direct result of her understanding as to how the world prioritizes those that wield it effectively and in her mind, (since I actually do headcanon for good characters) She thought that if she could use this magic effectively at it's conception she may have been able to catch up with her long lost friend or that her being able to use the magic in general was the end all for how the social structure of pony importance worked in general, she got deep into using it because she genuinely disagreed with the sentiment that made her so obsessed with learning it herself, this sentiment is about the social hierarchy and importance of "magic wielders" more or less and not the magic itself, she wanted to genuinely seperate others from having to make personal concessions for not being as "up to snuff" as other ponies, because that is what she knows is capable of happening because of these "special talents"... She uses magic to control because she doesn't want to feel helpless herself, and if she can keep others under control she won't have to make these personal concessions ever again.

 

4. If there was EVER a pony deserving of her successes and vengeful vindication through the destruction of these, it was DEFINITELY Starlight, Starlight never invited the Mane 6 to "Our Town" they show up randomly via instructions of some little magic map, and start to begin investigated it's political infrastructure based off their own intuition, there really is nothing to prove that if they had not been looking for answers themselves that they wouldn't have not just initially been allowed to leave... Yeah we know Starlight sees Twi and it becomes her goal to confirm an alicorn, but they asked to see the vault, they made it their mission to try to get to the bottom of what was going on there, and up to that point they were welcomed as guests and given crappy muffins to enjoy, not force assimilated by some brainwashing film or whatever, yeah AFTER they tried to step on Starlight's toes, Starlight put them in a room for seemingly causing anarchy in Our Town by making her followers go against the towns philosophy.. who knows what would happen if Starlight just let these ponies go? They would probably come back with an army to destroy everything she worked so hard at building?

 

5. When Starlight seeks revenge against Twilight and her friends she doesn't do this with the intention of "ending the world" she does this with the intention of ending a single friendship circle? So they can feel like she did when 1. She lost Sunburst (obviously) which makes her backstory make MORE sense in this situation bc she's proving part of her point about special abilities ending friendships by ruining friendships with special abilities. 2. So they can understand the loss of everything that matters most to them and EVERYTHING that they covet being taken away from them, but even this isn't even completely true, because if Starlight had succeeded at altering time in any one if these dystopias, they would have no recollection of what they had even lost, it's not like they get to keep all these memories? It's not like they have to feel the hurt from losing their true friendships? She's just preventing them from ever happening... At the end, when Twilight takes Starlight with her, to this dystopian wasteland that is left of Equestria, DO YOU NOT SEE Starlight's reaction? She doesn't want to end the world? She wants to make it better in her mind? She didn't want that to happen, she just wanted to remove Twilight Sparkle and her friends from being an ideological threat in concept in part of this new world? She wanted to make the world better through equality, not destroy it...? 

 

6. Starlight studied all these spells and had a genuine idea for what she could do to change Equestria for the better, these plots weren't for simply "revenge" or because she "lOvES ChAOs wooo" or because she simply wanted to become more magically powerful? She genuinely did what she did with purpose and conviction not just outright malice? When she says, "everything else I said was true, the only way to be happy is if we're all equal" or when she says "no I stopped them from bullying because we all should be equal, stopping the rainboom is just a bonus". She believes in this philosophy, she just as I've explained before, if she were to adhere to it herself that would add a lot of complications but ultimately contradict the purpose in why she is doing what she is doing. Starlight sacrifices everything BUT her magic to live in this little podunk nothing town in the middle of BFE, and she's sacrificed her time, any luxuries she did have, she's genuinely doing a lot to mobilize for this philosophy she's trying to spread, this did not come without her own hard work and sacrifice, something Twilight utterly invalidated in 2 episodes so she could feel accomplished as the princess of friendship.

 

I'm not going to justify Starlight's obvious lies, but I'm going to say there were objective reasons for some of them, Starlight is by far THE LEAST evil villain of all of My Little Pony, probably the entire franchise, being cunning doesn't add to the malice of someone's intentions, people act like personal competence always is supposed to be attributed to common sense, ummm Starlight has literally been taught from Filly to full grown mare up to this point that magic is the way, it's how she's taught herself? One could argue by extension she's breaking the chains of others that have her claimed inherently that she can't escape, but the point is her reformation... She just gets even better, we get to see that it isn't flawed intention that causes Starlight to make these mistakes, it's flawed thinking... If anything these mistakes should "humanize her" not start up a witch hunt against her because she's been inherently led to think differently than other ponies? Them giving her a chance makes the most sense, but I can give you all these reasons separately as I'm getting way off topic on the MLP gens post lol...

 

There's just a lot to suggest that Starlight may have never been "evil" on its face, rather misguided and prone to a different belief system that was self justified and by her own emotional competence and experiences... Starlight knows little of Hearrhswarming or the Wonderbolts yet, she can change one of Starswirls spells? She had her own intentions, her own interests, her own priorities, she didn't do what she did merely for power, she just couldn't give up her power to achieve what she wanted

"Starlight Glimmer, a MORAL, retrospective..."

1 minute ago, Props ValRoa said:

It's clear to me Starlight knew what she was doing to those ponies. It was psychotic and cruel. 

The argument isnt that she didn't know what she was doing, it's that she thought it was for the greater good, she wasn't getting a little "head rush" like "yeees yeees the power, they all obey me" no, she was just a bit smug bc she was pretty proud that she was accomplishing what she genuinely thought was right for Equestria, please, actually take the time to read my defenses of Starlight before replying... That or I'll quote myself again with hopes that someone actually will ..

1 minute ago, Courageous Thunder Dash said:

Big pointer here. Just look at how mentally broken those ponies were...compared to the mane 6...like...the mane 6 couldn't even go a second without their cutie marks. That's what makes it so painful...and stirred a hate for Starlight within me, hoping she'd get her dues. But I think the strongest part was how Starlight took revenge...she went as far as trying to alter the timeline of all things. 

She did it to end a friendship circle, not the world, in Starlight's world there would still be an order to things and means to survive, just under an oppressive philosophy THEY CHOSE, I know my insights about Starlight are long, but it's clear to me nobody is taking the time to ACTUALLY read them... 

There's NOTHING to suggest Starlight was threatening them by force, they were brainwashed by their own short minded conformity and inability to ask bigger questions themselves, THEY CHOSE this life because their previous lives were obviously lacking

19 minutes ago, Courageous Thunder Dash said:

The biggest problem for me with Starlight is her weak backstory...her basis and reasons. That's the most vulnerable area when it comes to character development. 

Excellent points here. But all that you said in this blurb alone...gives me an idea about Starlight...begging this question: After the Sunburst incident, would you agree that Starlight had a "fear to anger" moment? What I'm saying is...do you think Starlight was initially driven by the fear of being weak and useless? 

My answer is yes, but what about you?

I think that's an insecurity that drives a lot of characters and villains and isn't all that uncommon, they have a misperception about what "power" actually is. I just have to say thst I think Starlight is obviously very capable and very confident in the training she's been through and knowledge she's acquired, I think it becomes more about being a control freak through this insecurity than being inherently afraid of being powerless... She's bursting at the seam with potential, she could magically subject others to her will largely, there's tons of talents she has that makes her far from "weak and useless" think your projecting a little there, I think she wanted to maintain this power "at large" because I do sincerely believe that in her mind she thought that equality and her grips on its disposal were what was best for Equestria... I think her genuinely being a "control freak" lead her to believe that her will was absolute and made the most sense... But I mean there are COUNTLESS other things Starlight "could do" running with the "she feels weak and useless" thing feels like you are gesturing to me

34 minutes ago, Ring Team said:

This argument can pretty much be boiled down to "that's your opinion" but with... one extra step.

I personally dislike when people do this because, yeah, it's true. But it's also entirely unhelpful. Pointing at my opinion is, of course, my opinion in the comments of some thoughts I wanted to share... It's not some silver bullet that obliterates all of my points.

Let me put it this way. I can articulate why Despicable Me is a bad movie. And your response would be "well, that's just your opinion, just your taste". And that's it.

Also, quick note: Calling Starlight's criticism as "witch hunt" or "hatred" is like those teachers who don’t want to change the behavior of the bully that’s harassing you because “he can’t do nothing, it will look like he’s picking favourites”, and then immediately suspend you just because you tried to defend yourself from that bully. I think you can be calm without trying to verbally degrade other people just because they don't like a character as much as you do. That makes the debate impossible to logically discuss, especially in Derpibooru.

If someone doesn't want to read the problems a certain character has, it's as easy as this writer avoiding these problems. If a writer wants to talk about redemption, compassion and empathy, that's cool. That's why I love the 2017 movie and Crusaders of the Lost Mark. But that writer shouldn't run away from commitment. After all, bad examples are often easier to learn from.

I think you share "some fair criticisms" that don't effect how I see her as a character ultimately, but that I still ultimately concurred with you in, regarding some of the posts I've made, however me calling it a "witch hunt" isn't bullying you? It's protecting the bully from the cynical criticisms that you seem to believe ONLY she in specific has earned the right to undergo, while blatantly ignoring flaws and inconsistencies in some of your favorite characters... The problem boils down to "her inclusion feeling forced" the fans think it happened to quickly, but if we would have taken an entire season for a "reformation arc" on Starlight people would have equally complained that she was getting extra attention for her reformation that their crappy fan favorites like Luna didn't receive or characters like Discord who literally can get away with just about anything and be forgiven countless times... What makes it a witch hunt inherently is the situation she was created in, there was nothing they could have done to soften the blow, one way or another in Starlight cynics would have been dissatisfied by her inclusion in the show because it's the 5th season, their Faust goggles are on tight and their ungrateful expectations are getting higher... 

Had Starlight faced persecution after WILLFULLY conceding it would have been a witch hunt all the same, you want everyone to be forgiven except her? That's what will satisfy you... I just, you have to be real, the writers made "some" mistakes "every little thing that she does" but I mean in your post you are literally trying to invalidate triumphs that add depth and dimensions to her character, like success in leadership without magic? Bc you think "nahhhh my fayverit ponee kant luse tag Chaynglins where Sturrlat can succeed" like I said you have to head Canon a lot of scenarios in this show, especially pertaining to villains, but watching her overcome and put herself at risk to save Equestria being totally vulnerable wasn't enough for you on its face, you had to again compare the situation she's in to that of the mane 6, and it's unfair when she's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT pony...

Not even slightly, the bigger the better usually, except I do have a thing about feeling kind gross about really small girls, it's like if you have the body of an 11 yr old boy it's slightly a turn off to me lol...

12 minutes ago, Ring Team said:

 I can confidently break down how and why she's a bad character.

*Why it is your OPINION she is a bad character

I think you have a little bit of an "expectation clause" going on here and your comparing her personality and standards and behaviors to that of the Mane 6 and other ponies, and the fact that she was one of the only villains they bothered to even attempt to throw in a back story for and it didn't live up to your standards or expectations, I saw on your profile season 1 was your favorite season and that explains a lot to me, tell me what gives any of these villains more depth philosophically based off of CANON ALONE that makes them have more depth than Starlight Glimmer, without bringing up some weird delusional Luna fanfic portraying her as the complete opposite character the shows consistency will tell us she is... You most likely can not do this in a way that can't be easily debated...

Now her as a "reformation character" has it's inconsistencies but the writers are at fault for using her abundant magical talent for plot material, but they just had the ability to do this with her so quickly because of how multi dimensional her character truly was... I mean it's cool if you don't like her, I even lightweight understand on the backstory tip, but nitpicking her emotional and selfish decisions, I mean she's Trixies best friend for a reason? Quit comparing her and pretending like she should be a carbon copy of Twilight, Ember...

2 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

Aren’t cartoons full of that shit these days too ? Good news is: there are signs your post won’t belong here soon 

What you think it will get deleted? Lol and yeah that is happening in cartoons a little to much if you ask me, idk I just, for once want to see a full block of commercials and actually be persuaded to buy something by seeing humans that are actually attractive if you know what I'm getting at...

Permanently no, but if there was some type of two dimensional or four dimensional (like gumball) experience where I could be an animated pony in Equestria and switch back to the human realm, yeah, I think most people would, I would like various perspectives on "different realities"... Lol

1 hour ago, CastletonSnob said:

One criticism I've heard directed toward G5 is “Opaline is a generic Saturday morning cartoon villain!”.

It’s not like the G4 villains were super complex either.

Unless you seriously want to argue, “NO, GUYSH, QUEEN CHRYSHALISH ISH ACKSHUALLY A MULTI-DIMENSHUNAL CHARACTER WITH A TRAGIC BACKSHTORY AND COMPLICATED GOALSH!”.

"Thank you." This is why the characters lacking back stories completely, or that are entirely motivated by self interest aren't less shallow than Starlight, you have to head Canon a lot for ALL these villains.... To even slightly justify/comprehend why they did what they did

12 minutes ago, ZiggWheelsManning said:

Have you ever watched Arrow?  

no i have not

Moments ago, ZiggWheelsManning said:

Very surprised.  That caught me off guard.  

Yeah i love her design in costume and out in her DC Superhero Girls render

Moments ago, ZiggWheelsManning said:

Babs Seed or Babs Bunny?  

Barbara Gordon!

3 minutes ago, ZiggWheelsManning said:

You a fan of the Quake games?  That's rarely something I here.  You ever played Myst?  I look forward to your Batgirl tattoo  

me to, im getting Babs, on one arm and Batgirl on the other lol, and my favorite is Quake 3 Arena

3 minutes ago, Jeric said:

This topic is about criticism of MLPF. Stay focused on that. This isn’t a conversational area. 
 

Debate Pit is for controversial topics to be discussed in a cordial civil manner. Any references outside of debate pit will be moderated. 
 

Debate Pit rules are perfectly fine. If they are not to your liking, don’t engage in there. There is no shortage of places on the internet where you can speak more freely and with a caustic approach. That isn’t the tone we want here. Full stop. I don’t care if that ruffles some feathers. Debate Pit will continue to be a heavily moderated affair. We are Coke. We reject the requests to make us taste like Pepsi. You want Pepsi, you are free to get it elsewhere. 

im glad i got banned keeping up with that echo chamber made me cringe at myself a little to hard