Equestria's portrayal in the fandom: Cruel, Authoritarian and Racist/Speciesist

[Magic Man 222]

"Equestria has more love than any place I've ever encountered." - Queen Chrysalis

 

The fanbase doesn’t seem to agree with you on that regard, Chrysi.

 

This is something that has been bugging for quite a while now. I could not really put it into words until I read about it on Tvtropes on MLP. Equestria, as we know, is supposed to be a land of peace, love and harmony, a near enough utopia ruled over by the benevolent Princesses Celestia and Luna.

 

However, from what I've seen in a LOT of fanwork and what seems to be accepted in the fanon is Equestria being portrayed as this one of the following, if not all: Cruel, Authoritarian and Racist/Speciesist.

 

 

CRUEL

 

A lot of fans believe Equestria is rampant with bullies and cruelty, including family. A lot of fans seem to believe that when Twilight was growing up studying under Celestia, she was constantly bullied by the other students or other upper-class fillies; Rainbow Dash, whenever she's portrayed as a lesbian, is constantly discriminated against, being called a 'filly fooler'; that Derpy has been bullied as a filly and even as an ADULT by almost EVERY SINGLE pony in Ponyville supposedly for being different (to a lot of people it would seem, being ditzy is equivelent to being mentally retarded, she is the former. People, it would seem, assume the later in an attempt to woobify her as much they can); that Fluttershy had violently abusive parents, the list goes on.

 

Now yes, there is some bullying in Equestria, we've seen it with Diamond Tiara, Silver Spoon, the jock Pegasi, etc, but even so, it's shown to not be the norm or seen as acceptable, and what's more, it's never gone to the extreme levels as it has in the human world or in the fanfiction. It's pretty much entirely just name-calling and teasing by KIDS, who are known for being little jerks and having little empathy, pony OR human. Ponies, as a whole, are shown to be loving and accepting of each other, and I do take this as a fact.

 

 

 

AUTHORITARIAN

 

Okay, we all know where this is going, so I’ll keep this brief. Princess Celestia has time and time again been thought of by the fandom as this evil tyrant, when it’s been proven time and time again that this is simply not the case. I mean, how many times has it been argued how she banished Luna (Nightmare Moon at the time) because she HAD to, or how she didn’t believe Twilight in ‘Canterlot Wedding’ because she was genuinely fooled? The last one shows how she has flaws like other ponies, but apparently to viewers that is just as bad as showing her as absolutely perfect. She can’t get a break no matter what she does; she even gets guff for turning Discord to stone! Celestia, by definition, is a dictator, but so were a lot of old European monarchs who are looked upon favourably, and what’s more, she’s a BENEVOLENT dictator. She cares about all her subjects like they were her children, Twilight especially. I don’t know what the real basis on the ‘trollestia’ or ‘tyrant Celestia’ lies, but it’s seriously got old and fast, and it seems a lot of people are acknowledging it and letting it die. Only time will tell.

 

 

 

RACIST/SPECIESTIST

 

Now this is my biggest problem with the way Equestria is portrayed in fanwork. It’s not as common as with the bullying or authoritarianism, but whenever it does appear, it just infuriates me. Be it with Zebras, Griffins or most commonly Changelings, there are fanworks which portray ponies as a rule as blind, fiery-eyed racist/speciesist bigots. Again, I just want to emphasis this is not the most common element, but in those cases, it’s almost always played up to eleven; I’m talking lynch mobs, executions and pogroms. The species that this is almost always done with is the Changelings. Anyone who knows me on here knows that I have done a lot of discussion on Changelings and their relation with ponies, but as much as I like them, I can simply sick to death of the way they have increasingly been victimized and woobified in fanwork and at the same time, the ponies utterly vilified simply for defending themselves against an invasion. If you want my detailed opinion on the Changeling-Pony issue, here: http://mlpforums.com/topic/31266-can-the-changelings-be-justified-for-their-actions-or-not/ , http://mlpforums.com/topic/29534-speciesism-episode-for-season-3/ , http://mlpforums.com/topic/35967-the-nationality-basis-of-changelings/#entry848925 , http://mlpforums.com/topic/25015-cold-war-scenario-equestria-vs-changeling-kingdom-s3/ but what I’m getting at here is that wherever there is a fanwork that tries to portray the Changelings in a good or sympathetic, in said works the ponies are almost automatically portrayed as the ones in the wrong. Using the aftermath of the Changeling invasion as a basis, the ponies become the most hate filled creatures possible in these works, going as far as instigating a genocide like that in 1990s Balkans against Changelings with CELESTIA of all ponies openly backing or supporting it, again, part of the whole tyrant Celestia schtick, pretty much putting here on line with certain historical figures and warlords I don’t think need to be referenced by name here.

 

If we’re talking realistic, then yes, I can perfectly imagine the ponies of Equestria not being the Changelings’ biggest fans after the invasion, but guess what, that’s entirely natural and justified! The Changelings INVADED their country with every intention of sucking them dry! Of course the ponies are going to be a little peeved. The fanworks really seem to drive home that apparently it’s abhorrent for the ponies to even be the slightest bit resentful on the matter, and show them as the complete opposite of why the Changelings invaded their country in the first place. I mean, these are the ponies of Equestria for goodness sake; kindness, tolerance and love are their whole deal. If it were ever brought up in the show, the most it would realistically be shown as is a justified general distrust that would be resolved within a few episodes.

 

Zebras and Griffins are not as tackled in this issue as much as Changelings, due to less justification canon-wise, but there are still a few. I mean, in the first Zecora episode, it wasn’t even racism/speciesism; they were weary of Zecora because they had never met a Zebra before and unaware of her customs; they weren’t trying to lynch or burn her at the stake simply for being a Zebra, for crying out loud!

 

 

 

OVERALL

 

I just don’t get where this dour, horrible portrayal of Equestria in fanworks originates from. I mean, it’s kind of par for course like with the portrayal of other peaceful worlds in their respective fanworks, but what’s the source? A theory on tvtropes which I find myself agreeing with is that many of the writers or creators of these works are portraying their experiences in the world onto Equestria, which is quite plausible and saddening.

 

I doubt this portrayal is ever going to completely cease, but that doesn’t change the fact how irritating it’s become by its commonplaceness and acceptance. I just want to remind everyone here of the quote above by Queen Chrysalis, "Equestria has more love than any place I've ever encountered." Let’s really think about that; why else would Chrysalis declare war and invade Equestria for its love, unless there was a whole lot of love there in the first place? That line alone pretty much emphasises what Equestira is; a harmonious land, free from many of the vices of our own world. Just wish the fandom would agree with that.

 

 

Update: My main issue is just how people become so used to this portrayal of Equestria in the fandom that some lose sight of what it truly is. Equestria should not be 100% perfect and peaceful, that'd be boring, but then some fans see the remedy to that being to make it the absolute extreme opposite.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Wormtail96

[Akemi Homura 7,680]

Remember that this show was created by humans living in a world filled with all of that shit you just described and mentioned on your OP. It becomes natural to point fingers and match real world stuff up with a seemingly peaceful land, but from what I've seen from some episodes, Equestria isn't totally harmonious or peaceful as people make it out to be. Granted, those problems are definitely not as rampant as the ones we're used to seeing on a daily basis in our everyday lives, but the idea is still there. You cannot really expect to make something and let people implement some rather dark ideas into it, right?

 

It's why you have stories like Fallout: Equestria, in which, really - is a piss-poor representation of the future of Equestria all things considered. Celestia's sun suddenly blowing up one day has a better chance of occurring than a post-apocalyptic setting ravaged with nuclear warfare.

[Starshine 16,333]

However, from what I've seen in a LOT of fanwork and what seems to be accepted in the fanon is Equestria being portrayed as this one of the following, if not all: Cruel, Authoritarian and Racist/Speciesist.

Stopped reading there

 

You know fanon and canon material is different right?

 

The fanbase doesn’t seem to agree with you on that regard, Chrysi.

That critter feeds on love. She knows about love more than you could ever hope for, because she would be able to tell which individual give out more love from the deliciousness.

[Magic Man 222]

Remember that this show was created by humans living in a world filled with all of that shit you just described and mentioned on your OP. It becomes natural to point fingers and match real world stuff up with a seemingly peaceful land, but from what I've seen from some episodes, Equestria isn't totally harmonious or peaceful as people make it out to be. Granted, those problems are definitely not as rampant as the ones we're used to seeing on a daily basis in our everyday lives, but the idea is still there. You cannot really expect to make something and let people implement some rather dark ideas into it, right?

 

It's why you have stories like Fallout: Equestria, in which, really - is a piss-poor representation of the future of Equestria all things considered. Celestia's sun suddenly blowing up one day has a better chance of occurring than a post-apocalyptic setting ravaged with nuclear warfare.

 

Of course not, I actually like some of the dark elements that have creeped up, canon or fanon-wise, but what I don't like is how some fans seems to take that darkness as fact and lose sight of what Equestria is in favour of how its interpreted.

[Twiliscael 3,960]

It's why you have stories like Fallout: Equestria, in which, really - is a piss-poor representation of the future of Equestria all things considered. Celestia's sun suddenly blowing up one day has a better chance of occurring than a post-apocalyptic setting ravaged with nuclear warfare.

 

I LOVED FALLOUT EQUESTRIA AND I TAKE PERSONAL OFFENSE.

 

In all seriousness, I really don't care how others portray Equestria in the fandom. The way they do it is what makes their stories and art and everything so interesting. It wouldn't be very fun to read a 15 chapter story about happiness and perfection, would it?

[Yellow Diamond 7,569]

This thread appears to be related to the My Little Pony franchise and/or the Bronydom in general. Thus, it has been sentenced to Sugarcube Corner.

 

This is an automatically generated message, by the way.

[Magic Man 222]

I LOVED FALLOUT EQUESTRIA AND I TAKE PERSONAL OFFENSE.

 

In all seriousness, I really don't care how others portray Equestria in the fandom. The way they do it is what makes their stories and art and everything so interesting. It wouldn't be very fun to read a 15 chapter story about happiness and perfection, would it?

 

I agree with you, that would be boring, but it's just how people then make it the extreme opposite, which then doesn't make a lot of sense in how much it forms the basis of the show. I don't mind there being flaws in Equestria and it not being perfect, but some fanworks go to the absolute extreme opposite.

[duidamasterXD 9,627]

"Equestria has more love than any place I've ever encountered." - Queen Chrysalis

 

 

The fanbase doesn’t seem to agree with you on that regard, Chrysi.

 

This is something that has been bugging for quite a while now. I could not really put it into words until I read about it on Tvtropes on MLP. Equestria, as we know, is supposed to be a land of peace, love and harmony, a near enough utopia ruled over by the benevolent Princesses Celestia and Luna.

 

However, from what I've seen in a LOT of fanwork and what seems to be accepted in the fanon is Equestria being portrayed as this one of the following, if not all: Cruel, Authoritarian and Racist/Speciesist.

 

 

CRUEL

 

A lot of fans believe Equestria is rampant with bullies and cruelty, including family. A lot of fans seem to believe that when Twilight was growing up studying under Celestia, she was constantly bullied by the other students or other upper-class fillies; Rainbow Dash, whenever she's portrayed as a lesbian, is constantly discriminated against, being called a 'filly fooler'; that Derpy has been bullied as a filly and even as an ADULT by almost EVERY SINGLE pony in Ponyville supposedly for being different (to a lot of people it would seem, being ditzy is equivelent to being mentally retarded, she is the former. People, it would seem, assume the later in an attempt to woobify her as much they can); that Fluttershy had violently abusive parents, the list goes on.

 

Now yes, there is some bullying in Equestria, we've seen it with Diamond Tiara, Silver Spoon, the jock Pegasi, etc, but even so, it's shown to not be the norm or seen as acceptable, and what's more, it's never gone to the extreme levels as it has in the human world or in the fanfiction. It's pretty much entirely just name-calling and teasing by KIDS, who are known for being little jerks and having little empathy, pony OR human. Ponies, as a whole, are shown to be loving and accepting of each other, and I do take this as a fact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

AUTHORITARIAN

 

Okay, we all know where this is going, so I’ll keep this brief. Princess Celestia has time and time again been thought of by the fandom as this evil tyrant, when it’s been proven time and time again that this is simply not the case. I mean, how many times has it been argued how she banished Luna (Nightmare Moon at the time) because she HAD to, or how she didn’t believe Twilight in ‘Canterlot Wedding’ because she was genuinely fooled? The last one shows how she has flaws like other ponies, but apparently to viewers that is just as bad as showing her as absolutely perfect. She can’t get a break no matter what she does; she even gets guff for turning Discord to stone! Celestia, by definition, is a dictator, but so were a lot of old European monarchs who are looked upon favourably, and what’s more, she’s a BENEVOLENT dictator. She cares about all her subjects like they were her children, Twilight especially. I don’t know what the real basis on the ‘trollestia’ or ‘tyrant Celestia’ lies, but it’s seriously got old and fast, and it seems a lot of people are acknowledging it and letting it die. Only time will tell.

 

 

 

RACIST/SPECIESTIST

 

Now this is my biggest problem with the way Equestria is portrayed in fanwork. It’s not as common as with the bullying or authoritarianism, but whenever it does appear, it just infuriates me. Be it with Zebras, Griffins or most commonly Changelings, there are fanworks which portray ponies as a rule as blind, fiery-eyed racist/speciesist bigots. Again, I just want to emphasis this is not the most common element, but in those cases, it’s almost always played up to eleven; I’m talking lynch mobs, executions and pogroms. The species that this is almost always done with is the Changelings. Anyone who knows me on here knows that I have done a lot of discussion on Changelings and their relation with ponies, but as much as I like them, I can simply sick to death of the way they have increasingly been victimized and woobified in fanwork and at the same time, the ponies utterly vilified simply for defending themselves against an invasion. If you want my detailed opinion on the Changeling-Pony issue, here: http://mlpforums.com/topic/31266-can-the-changelings-be-justified-for-their-actions-or-not/ , http://mlpforums.com/topic/29534-speciesism-episode-for-season-3/ , http://mlpforums.com/topic/35967-the-nationality-basis-of-changelings/#entry848925 , http://mlpforums.com/topic/25015-cold-war-scenario-equestria-vs-changeling-kingdom-s3/ but what I’m getting at here is that wherever there is a fanwork that tries to portray the Changelings in a good or sympathetic, in said works the ponies are almost automatically portrayed as the ones in the wrong. Using the aftermath of the Changeling invasion as a basis, the ponies become the most hate filled creatures possible in these works, going as far as instigating a genocide like that in 1990s Balkans against Changelings with CELESTIA of all ponies openly backing or supporting it, again, part of the whole tyrant Celestia schtick, pretty much putting here on line with certain historical figures and warlords I don’t think need to be referenced by name here.

 

If we’re talking realistic, then yes, I can perfectly imagine the ponies of Equestria not being the Changelings’ biggest fans after the invasion, but guess what, that’s entirely natural and justified! The Changelings INVADED their country with every intention of sucking them dry! Of course the ponies are going to be a little peeved. The fanworks really seem to drive home that apparently it’s abhorrent for the ponies to even be the slightest bit resentful on the matter, and show them as the complete opposite of why the Changelings invaded their country in the first place. I mean, these are the ponies of Equestria for goodness sake; kindness, tolerance and love are their whole deal. If it were ever brought up in the show, the most it would realistically be shown as is a justified general distrust that would be resolved within a few episodes.

 

Zebras and Griffins are not as tackled in this issue as much as Changelings, due to less justification canon-wise, but there are still a few. I mean, in the first Zecora episode, it wasn’t even racism/speciesism; they were weary of Zecora because they had never met a Zebra before and unaware of her customs; they weren’t trying to lynch or burn her at the stake simply for being a Zebra, for crying out loud!

 

 

 

OVERALL

 

I just don’t get where this dour, horrible portrayal of Equestria in fanworks originates from. I mean, it’s kind of par for course like with the portrayal of other peaceful worlds in their respective fanworks, but what’s the source? A theory on tvtropes which I find myself agreeing with is that many of the writers or creators of these works are portraying their experiences in the world onto Equestria, which is quite plausible and saddening.

 

I doubt this portrayal is ever going to completely cease, but that doesn’t change the fact how irritating it’s become by its commonplaceness and acceptance. I just want to remind everyone here of the quote above by Queen Chrysalis, "Equestria has more love than any place I've ever encountered." Let’s really think about that; why else would Chrysalis declare war and invade Equestria for its love, unless there was a whole lot of love there in the first place? That line alone pretty much emphasises what Equestira is; a harmonious land, free from many of the vices of our own world. Just wish the fandom would agree with that.

 

Well with regards to the cruelty, one of the only things we can conclude from flashbacks to flight camp was that it was rampant with bullying. Both Fluttershy and Dash were deeply affected by what happened there although Dash hides it better.. Twilight's first thoughts of magic kindergarten involved laughing taunting children, so we can assume an element of bullying existed there and Twilight was adversely affected by it. Finally, Putting Your Hoof Down, in which the ENTIRE town terrorizes Fluttershy doesn't help this. The fandom does blow the cruelty out of proportion of course. There is a lot of scumbaggery in Equestria even in canon, but there is definitely more love than I see in fan works

 

Celestia is a victim of the Ron the Death Eater trope and the fandom loves to leatherpants Nightmare Moon, Discord, Trixie, Gilda, and Chrysalis/the changelings. It's that simple. I don't like it and I fervently fight it when I see it, but if it's in a fanfic or something then that then it's harmless. If they actually drew these conclusions from the show I generally try to disprove them

Edited October 23, 2012 by DashForever

[Magic Man 222]

This thread appears to be related to the My Little Pony franchise and/or the Bronydom in general. Thus, it has been sentenced to Sugarcube Corner.

 

This is an automatically generated message, by the way.

 

I apologize. I had a feeling that the topic may be a little misplaced, so I do see this a wise decision. Again, my apologies. (sorry, needs to be 100 figures)