The Dazzlings vs Discord

[Nuke87654 1,849]

Actually, comics are considered canon unless contradicted by the show. You're also ignoring energy output in favor of directly destructive feats, which is a poor method of judging character's capabilities.

 

Regardless, Discord still stomps here; magic strong enough to control the sun and moon are way above anything the Dazzlings have done. Scaling from Alicorns magical blasts in the shows puts him stupidly above their speed.

 

Just a question Shimmer 5000, is this calc known for Outskirt's Battledome wiki. If so, what was the response on the forum just so I can be a silly person.

[Fractured 2,684]

What I'm gathering is that if someone fires off a clearly full power blast, it's not actually their full power? That's basically the argument you're making. Nightmare Moon fires plenty of blasts, most of them only being about the level of a stick of dynamite(give or take a little). It would logically take more energy to move celestial bodies, but the fact of the matter is that Discord(via extension of being part of Tirek) has not shown the same ability when it comes to destroying things. There isn't really any good reason for this either, Tirek's blasts should by all common sense be destroying landscapes in an instant.  

 

So tell me, if their destructive blasts don't line up with their other magic, which one do we follow? The one that is actually used in combat? Or the one that is used more for support

What i'm saying is that its a common thing for attacks to carry more energy than what is directly shown. Flash has never had any overly destructive feats, but he can harm Superman level characters. It's because a character's baseline potential is the max amount of energy they can put out or are able to receive. That means Discord, who tangled with Celestia and Luna and moved the sun and the moon casually, is capable of outputting a Solar System level amount energy at a moments notice. Lower ends aren't really relevant, especially when you're debating competitively.

Just a question Shimmer 5000, is this calc known for Outskirt's Battledome wiki. If so, what was the response on the forum just so I can be a silly person.

Nothing yet, still waiting for a response from someone I sent it to to verify it...

Considering the last bit MLP related thing to come out of the OBD(I still have nightmares about the Bookworm fiasco), though, it's not going to be a pleasant week. 

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

What i'm saying is that its a common thing for attacks to carry more energy than what is directly shown. Flash has never had any overly destructive feats, but he can harm Superman level characters

That's not the same thing though, Flash has actually fought with these characters and we've seen him physically affect them. Discord has moved around the Sun and Moon, but it doesn't scale well at all with anything else since every single time they fight, it's mostly building level

 

 

Lower ends aren't really relevant, especially when you're debating competitively.

They can be very important, especially with certain PIS plagued characters(Captain America). Discord hasn't been around long enough to tell what's PIS and what's not though

[Nuke87654 1,849]

What i'm saying is that its a common thing for attacks to carry more energy than what is directly shown. Flash has never had any overly destructive feats, but he can harm Superman level characters. It's because a character's baseline potential is the max amount of energy they can put out or are able to receive. That means Discord, who tangled with Celestia and Luna and moved the sun and the moon casually, is capable of outputting a Solar System level amount energy at a moments notice. Lower ends aren't really relevant, especially when you're debating competitively.

Nothing yet, still waiting for a response from someone I sent it to to verify it...

Considering the last bit MLP related thing to come out of the OBD(I still have nightmares about the Bookworm fiasco), though, it's not going to be a pleasant week. 

 

What feat in the Bookworm arc had did that resulted in OBD going apeshit. If that's the case, then they'll probably be flabbergasting that the MLP series could actually take on something like DBZ now.

[Hive King 2,001]

What feat in the Bookworm arc had did that resulted in OBD going apeshit. If that's the case, then they'll probably be flabbergasting that the MLP series could actually take on something like DBZ now.

If you use the comics for MLP, you can use the English DBZ movies. Which have Broly in his restricted form destroying an entire galaxy with no effort what so ever. And considering how Broly is even weaker than an SSJ2...

 

See, that's the problem I have with using the comics. It's the same thing as using the DBZ movies. It's possible to fit them into canon, but you also have to cherry pick everywhere so that it works

[Nuke87654 1,849]

If you use the comics for MLP, you can use the English DBZ movies. Which have Broly in his restricted form destroying an entire galaxy with no effort what so ever. And considering how Broly is even weaker than an SSJ2...

 

See, that's the problem I have with using the comics. It's the same thing as using the DBZ movies. It's possible to fit them into canon, but you also have to cherry pick everywhere so that it works

 

One problem is that the the MLP comics are considered canon by Hasbro while what you're using is from mistranslation from the original sources saying otherwise, the english dub isn't the original series but the japanese one is, and the Battle of the Gods pretty much confirms the highest destructive power DBZ characters are capable as of this moment are solar system busters.

[Hive King 2,001]

One problem is that the the MLP comics are considered canon by Hasbro while what you're using is from mistranslation from the original sources saying otherwise, the english dub isn't the original series but the japanese one is, and the Battle of the Gods pretty much confirms the highest destructive power DBZ characters are capable as of this moment are solar system busters.

Not true. Whis says that the last time Beers was mad, a solar system "vanished in an instant". So he's quite a bit above it, if just getting irritated was enough for him to casually blow it away. Now, DBZ characters, barring Omega Shenron corruption, cannot do anything near galaxy tiers, but still

 

Regardless, if we go by the movies, then Goku and Vegeta are capable of resisting magic(to an extent) from Janemba, who tore apart the walls between the living and the dead. This is blatantly contradicted by Babidi being able to make Vegeta collapse in pain and Boo's Chocolate Beam being a very real danger. Another weird thing from the movies is that Cooler mentions how "I can see how you defeated my brother"....in regards to base Goku. For this to work, Goku has to be stronger than Freeza in base form in the android arc. The list of these things goes on and on.

 

The MLP comics are just as canon as the movies, which, like the comics, have never outright been stated to be non-canon either. But via the fact that they are there are so many issues of inconsistency, it's better to not cherry pick and just discount the whole thing

[Fractured 2,684]

That's not the same thing though, Flash has actually fought with these characters and we've seen him physically affect them. Discord has moved around the Sun and Moon, but it doesn't scale well at all with anything else since every single time they fight, it's mostly building level

 

 

They can be very important, especially with certain PIS plagued characters(Captain America). Discord hasn't been around long enough to tell what's PIS and what's not though

Energy is energy is energy, and unless it was specifically stated he can't use his magic offensively( which it hasn't), he can manipulate it in any manner he's shown within his obvious limits.

 

And PIS is when a character shows things way over or under their baseline. Discord's baseline was determined in his first episode as being stronger than the two beings who move Celestial bodies. PIS would be anything significantly stronger or weaker than that.

If you use the comics for MLP, you can use the English DBZ movies. Which have Broly in his restricted form destroying an entire galaxy with no effort what so ever. And considering how Broly is even weaker than an SSJ2...

 

See, that's the problem I have with using the comics. It's the same thing as using the DBZ movies. It's possible to fit them into canon, but you also have to cherry pick everywhere so that it works

It's really not. MLP comics are stated canon unless blatantly contradicted by the show itself. None of the DBZ movies with the exception of BOG have been stated to be canon.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Energy is energy is energy, and unless it was specifically stated he can't use his magic offensively( which it hasn't), he can manipulate it in any manner he's shown within his obvious limits.

And yet, he nor Tirek has done anything remotely so impressive, despite Tirek going all out. So in other words, Tirek and Twilight were both dicking around during their battle and Discord can't just blitz the Mane 6 to grab the Element in Keep Calm and Flutter On(he could still physically grab them) 

 

 

And PIS is when a character shows things way over or under their baseline. Discord's baseline was determined in his first episode as being stronger than the two beings who move Celestial bodies. PIS would be anything significantly stronger or weaker than that.

Said princesses fire blasts that are pillar busting at most. Said princess got knocked right out by a blast that doesn't even warp gold. Said princesses quadrupling their power was only enough to tear apart mountains 

 

 

It's really not. MLP comics are stated canon unless blatantly contradicted by the show itself. None of the DBZ movies with the exception of BOG have been stated to be canon.

This was never stated, what was stated was that they are canon if you want them to be.  

[Fractured 2,684]

What feat in the Bookworm arc had did that resulted in OBD going apeshit. If that's the case, then they'll probably be flabbergasting that the MLP series could actually take on something like DBZ now.

Well, MLP top tiers have always been above DBZ, outside of the "getting blitzed to all hell" thing. This would put Discord above BOG Goku, though.

 

And yet, he nor Tirek has done anything remotely so impressive, despite Tirek going all out. So in other words, Tirek and Twilight were both dicking around during their battle and Discord can't just blitz the Mane 6 to grab the Element in Keep Calm and Flutter On(he could still physically grab them) 

 

 

Said princesses fire blasts that are pillar busting at most. Said princess got knocked right out by a blast that doesn't even warp gold. Said princesses quadrupling their power was only enough to tear apart mountains 

 

 

 

This was never stated, what was stated was that they are canon if you want them to be.  

Well, I don't know how many times I can rehash the same general statements; aesthetics never take priority over the amount of energy being exchanged, and what the characters can do isn't always equal to what the characters will do. Whether you choose to accept that or not is up to you, but i'm done finding clever ways to rephrase the same concept.

 

And word from Andy Price:

http://news.everfree.net/2014/07/interview-with-mlp-comic-artist-andy-price/

Andy Price: Since we’re in the middle of this arc and there’s still parts coming up I can’t really reveal anything. I will say that, on that note, a lot of people ask me, “Is the comic canon with the show?” And we’re pretty much of the opinion, and Hasbro is as well, that this is canonical with everything that’s gone before, until the show contradicts it. So we’re kinda second-tier canon.

So if Star Swirl wants to show up on the show and they decide, this design doesn’t work for us for whatever reason, and they decide to use a different design, that’s their prerogative – it’s their baby.

It’s their sandbox, we just get to play in it.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Well, I don't know how many times I can rehash the same general statements; aesthetics never take priority over the amount of energy being exchanged, and what the characters can do isn't always equal to what the characters will do. Whether you choose to accept that or not is up to you, but i'm done finding clever ways to rephrase the same concept

Why does the higher feat take priority over the lower one? Especially when the lower is being used in a far more tense situation

 

 

  And word from Andy Price: http://news.everfree...ist-andy-price/ Andy Price: Since we’re in the middle of this arc and there’s still parts coming up I can’t really reveal anything. I will say that, on that note, a lot of people ask me, “Is the comic canon with the show?” And we’re pretty much of the opinion, and Hasbro is as well, that this is canonical with everything that’s gone before, until the show contradicts it. So we’re kinda second-tier canon. So if Star Swirl wants to show up on the show and they decide, this design doesn’t work for us for whatever reason, and they decide to use a different design, that’s their prerogative – it’s their baby. It’s their sandbox, we just get to play in it.

My apologies, I had heard differently from others.

 

Anyway, it still horribly contradicts with Discord standing with a stupid expression on his face while the Elements charge up

 

 

Well, MLP top tiers have always been above DBZ, outside of the "getting blitzed to all hell" thing. This would put Discord above BOG Goku, though.

The MLP top tiers are only above due to DBZ characters sucking at magic resistance as seen with Babidi and Kaioshin.

 

As for Discord, if you take that statement as true, then he's not even in the same ball park as BOG Goku, no DBZ character is even near lightspeed, especially when Gohan is only Mach 2 

[Fractured 2,684]

Why does the higher feat take priority over the lower one? Especially when the lower is being used in a far more tense situation

 

 

My apologies, I had heard differently from others.

 

Anyway, it still horribly contradicts with Discord standing with a stupid expression on his face while the Elements charge up

 

 

The MLP top tiers are only above due to DBZ characters sucking at magic resistance as seen with Babidi and Kaioshin.

 

As for Discord, if you take that statement as true, then he's not even in the same ball park as BOG Goku, no DBZ character is even near lightspeed, especially when Gohan is only Mach 2 

Lower end feats sit within the higher ends, which means they're automatically a misrepresentation of a character's strength. Lifting a building does not mean you get to judge a character by their ability to lift a car.

 

Competitively, you go by the character's highest ends because it's the fairest and easiest way to do so. Otherwise, it turns into a case where one or both parties try to stack the deck by nitpicking lower and lower ends until it starts to become ridiculous, ending up at the "Goku gets hurt by a rock" statements. It's best to just avoid the fuss altogether.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Shimmer5000

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Lower end feats sit within the higher ends, which means they're automatically a misrepresentation of a character's strength. Lifting a building does not mean you get to judge a character by their ability to lift a car.

So because moving the celestial bodies came first, it's automatically right?  Despite every other showing since then suggesting otherwise?

 

 

Competitively, you go by the character's highest ends because it's the fairest and easiest way to do so. Otherwise, it turns into a case where one or both parties try to stack the deck by nitpicking low-ends until it starts to become ridiculous, ala the "Goku gets hurt by a rock" statements. It's best to just avoid the fuss altogether.

Spider-Man once punched out Firelord, that's high end as Hell and no one uses it. Venom once fought the Juggernaut, really high end and no one uses it.

 

The reverse can happen as well, you know

[Fractured 2,684]

So because moving the celestial bodies came first, it's automatically right?  Despite every other showing since then suggesting otherwise?

 

 

Spider-Man once punched out Firelord, that's high end as Hell and no one uses it. Venom once fought the Juggernaut, really high end and no one uses it.

 

The reverse can happen as well, you know

In-story, much of Discord's actions have been restricted under order of Celestia, as well as his new moral restrictions. That doesn't mean he has any less power than he had before, he just chooses not to use it. Nothing has changed in-story to directly suggest that he's any weaker than he was in his first episodes.

 

And those aren't high ends, those are outliers. That would be an episode where it turns out Discord is a universal being. Moving the sun/moon isn't inconsistent with what we already know, which is Discord both defeated the alicorn sisters and took control of their celestial bodies. That's not an outlier, it's a standard.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

And those aren't high ends, those are outliers. That would be an episode where it turns out Discord is a universal being. Moving the sun/moon isn't inconsistent with what we already know, which is Discord both defeated the alicorn sisters and took control of their celestial bodies. That's not an outlier, it's a standard.

Being MFTL is an outlier though as is time travel.. His feat in the comics is nonsensical with his other showings. 

 

And congratulations if he can move the celestial bodies, he still took the Elements far worse than even Adagio on her own did. Perhaps the Elements were weaker, due to it being remnants(this is a debatabably point, given the whole idea of a spark). Even so, are they really THAT much weaker? You'd think it would be mentioned if they were such a massive amount weaker, because the characters would know that they aren't at full strength and it's causing them to fail

[Fractured 2,684]

Being MFTL is an outlier though as is time travel.. His feat in the comics is nonsensical with his other showings. 

 

And congratulations if he can move the celestial bodies, he still took the Elements far worse than even Adagio on her own did. Perhaps the Elements were weaker, due to it being remnants(this is a debatabably point, given the whole idea of a spark). Even so, are they really THAT much weaker? You'd think it would be mentioned if they were such a massive amount weaker, because the characters would know that they aren't at full strength and it's causing them to fail

Well, possibly the first(though Discord only really has speed feats through scaling, so hard to say), but not so much the second, as he has an actual time machine.

 

And Twilight Sparkle said that it's the leftover magic from when her element was last there, meaning its the remnants of one element. That's not the same as the whole.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Well, possibly the first(though Discord only really has speed feats through scaling, so hard to say), but not so much the second, as he has an actual time machine.

Wait, what? When did he have a time machine? And why didn't he use it to prevent his defeat?

 

 

And Twilight Sparkle said that it's the leftover magic from when her element was last there, meaning its the remnants of one element. That's not the same as the whole.

But it was also enough for it to manifest the giant rainbow in the first EQG, so said Element is rather powerful.

 

This hinges heavily on whether Twilight used plural or singular. If singular, I can accept the Dazzlings lose 

[Fractured 2,684]

Wait, what? When did he have a time machine? And why didn't he use it to prevent his defeat?

 

 

But it was also enough for it to manifest the giant rainbow in the first EQG, so said Element is rather powerful.

 

This hinges heavily on whether Twilight used plural or singular. If singular, I can accept the Dazzlings lose 

It's the main focus of the comic. It's bound by paradoxes, though, so you can't undo established events. You can change things relative to yourself in the past, essentially, but they'll always be the same in the present. It's basically a better working version of what Twilight did in It's About Time

 

And from EQG2

Twilight Sparkle: "My crown was returned to Equestria, but some of its magic must have remained here at Canterlot High. Now that we're all back together, we can use that magic on the Sirens".

Edited October 27, 2014 by Shimmer5000

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

Yeah, the Dazzlings are probably going to lose. One could say they're stronger, but it would require lots of conjecture on how much power Sunset added

 

And fair enough on the time machine 

[~ Dr. Ocsid ~ 690]

He can't affect those that are stronger than him, see his absolute failure to do anything to Tirek

He was surprised, shocked, petrified, when Tirek betrayed him. If Tirek had allowed him a few more moments to let Discord clear his mind and turn his shock into anger, Tirek would be a blobfish-armadillo-platypus-amalgam, and Equestria filled with burping purple rubber ducks and freezing hot molten licorize.

[Hive King 2,001]

He was surprised, shocked, petrified, when Tirek betrayed him. If Tirek had allowed him a few more moments to let Discord clear his mind and turn his shock into anger, Tirek would be a blobfish-armadillo-platypus-amalgam, and Equestria filled with burping purple rubber ducks and freezing hot molten licorize.

Discord's synapses suck, because he had a good few seconds to react. Also, Tirek showed about as much caution around him as a cat with a duckling, Tirek wasn't afraid in the slightest

[~ Dr. Ocsid ~ 690]

Discord's synapses suck, because he had a good few seconds to react. Also, Tirek showed about as much caution around him as a cat with a duckling, Tirek wasn't afraid in the slightest

That could be explained by him being a Psychopath. Psychopaths would tap-dance on a starting nuclear missile. He wasn´t afraid because he couldn´t be afraid. Therefore it was easy for him to make a show to convince Discord they were "Buddies in Bedlam".

Just my headcanon.

 

Also, who says he has synapses? Have you seen his brain? I doubt it actually has them. 

Edited October 31, 2014 by ~ Dr. Ocsid ~

[Darkest 2]

I'm going with The Dazzlings, they rock harder than Discord, and they're going to clean the floor with him.

[~ Dr. Ocsid ~ 690]

I'm going with The Dazzlings, they rock harder than Discord, and they're going to clean the floor with him.

Yes, and this makes the ground turn into fast-solififying concrete, and they are trapped. Classics are best antics.

[Hive King 2,001]

That could be explained by him being a Psychopath. Psychopaths would tap-dance on a starting nuclear missile. He wasn´t afraid because he couldn´t be afraid. Therefore it was easy for him to make a show to convince Discord they were "Buddies in Bedlam".

Just my headcanon.

 

Also, who says he has synapses? Have you seen his brain? I doubt it actually has them. 

A psychopath? Not only is that not what you think it is, but Tirek was crapping himself when the Rainbow Powers Activated.

 

And I don't care if his head is full of cotton candy, if Discord takes several seconds to react, his reactions are awful