Are the human Mane 5 really good for Sunset Shimmer, as friends and role models?

[ManaMinori 4,145]

I dunno. She claims to have made friends with the mane 5 after the first movie, but from then on- in the second movie, and even the holiday special comic, they seem to treat her poorly. Staring with the second movie (Rainbow Rocks), Sunny is supposedly 'forgiven' of her past mistakes by her 'friends', the mane 5, but they keep making it a point to bring up her past errors, in conversation, whenever she's around, continuously reminding her of how awful she was- whether it's intentional or not. (And I hardly believe that it's unintentional, unless the mane 5 are completely unaware that Sunny's part of their group and follows them everywhere, and if she's in immediate line of vision and close proximity to them- and she is 99 % of the time, then there's really no excuse for that). To say “no offense” when you continuously drag up someone's past bad behavior and throw it in their face, isn't an acceptable apology.

 

And while Sunset Shimmer's just has SO much fortitude, and is SO strong to just take all the constant reminders – not only from the entire school (including the Principal and vice, but from her so-called FRIENDS) and just grin and bear it, we can see the constant reminders exasperating, embarrassing, and just plain making poor Sunny feel so bad and riddled with guilt. ): And that's the last thing she needs from the people she calls her '”friends”, now that she's opened herself up to try learning about friendship, as Twilight has.

 

Now in the 2014 EQG holiday special in the IDW comics- which takes place after Rainbow Rocks, Sunset Shimmer's “friends” still treat her horribly, after Sunset proved herself changed to such a degree that she was able to transform with the elements of harmony and help the Mane 5 save the world from the sirens. The Mane 5 turn on Sunny; judging her at the drop of a hat, and leaving her sobbing on the floor (not to mention none of them notice Sunny being homeless and living in the library, or offered to take her into their home, as they did with Twilight)

 

But even after all that, Sunny quickly (perhaps TOO quickly) forgives them, while none of them apologized to her.

 

Would YOU stay with a group of people who you call friends, but treat you in that same way, as the Mane 5 do with Sunny, as seen by the aforementioned examples? Should Sunny, herself, continue to ally herself with the Mane 5, under such treatment? Or would she be better off back in Equestria, given her current circumstances, in the presence of so-called “friends” who continue to accuse her, judge her, drag up her past, and make her feel bad about herself, after they've claimed to “forgiven” her? Are these the kind of friends Sunny really should be keeping around, as supposed "role-models" to help her better learn about friendship?

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

I don't read the comics, and the canonicity of the comics is dubious at best. I don't consider them canon.

 

I did mention the constant reminders of "the incident" as one flaw with the movie, but there's another flaw that will provide evidence to my theory that the HuMane 5 are not as similar to the ReMane 5 as one would think; the movie's Flanderized portrayal of some characters, most notably Rainbow Dash.

 

It's there that I believe that the EqG counterparts of the main characters are not as mature and have not had the same life experiences as their counterparts on four legs. The main giveaway is the intrinsic differences between the EqG society, which more accurately mirrors our own, and Equestrian society, which is more idealized. Equestrian society offers ponies at the emotional and mental equivalent of a human's mid-to-late teen age many more adult freedoms, responsibilities, and real-life experiences than our/EqG's world does. On top of that, the differences inherent between a fantasy world and a quasi-realistic world make some events that happened in Equestria in episodes we are familiar with nearly impossible in the human world.

 

For example, take "Hurricane Fluttershy". Of course, we know such an event happened in Equestria. But we don't know whether or not an equivalent or parallel event ever happened at Canterlot High. We don't know if Fluttershy definitively got over her past demons the way she did in Equestria or if Rainbow Dash ever showed the maturity, restraint, and competence as a leader to push Fluttershy to improve without breaking her. Of course, it could not have been "tornado duty" as these versions of Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy do not have these powers and abilities. Could a similar event have happened in the past at something else like a community event? The movie does not give us any hints toward that, so that theory is completely open to speculation without even a hint at a definitive answer.

 

Thus, my main point is that the HuMane 5 might not be as mature and responsible as the ReMane 5 we're used to seeing in the 91 episodes of the main series. We don't know if they've had the same kind of real-world experiences to build character. On the flip side of the coin, Sunset Shimmer has experience in both the human world and Equestria as a former student of Princess Celestia, one of the wisest characters that world has. Sunset Shimmer, although newly adjusting to a normal life after villainy, seems to have been more composed and mature than the ReMane 5 going off their actions in Rainbow Rocks.

 

So, the short answer is, they're good for friends, but not really for role models. I think Sunset Shimmer should actually be looking to older characters, particularly adults, for guidance in this aspect. However, that doesn't completely rule out Sunset learning from them either way. They'll experience life's challenges together no matter who's mentoring who. It's just that for Sunset, in the position she's in, she needs to look up to someone who has had definitively more life experience than her in their setting. She needs that kind of adult guidance. Ideally, if they fleshed out VP Luna's backstory in parallel to her Equestrian counterpart in line with my theory (where Princess was corrupted by Nightmare Moon, maybe VP Luna may have been a vagrant thief or a dishonest swindler in the past), she would make a great role model to help Sunset Shimmer through her newfound role in life.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Wind Chaser

[Arctofire 227]

Yeah maybe Luna should play a bigger role in the third one.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

I don't read the comics, and the canonicity of the comics is dubious at best. I don't consider them canon.

 

I did mention the constant reminders of "the incident" as one flaw with the movie, but there's another flaw that will provide evidence to my theory that the HuMane 5 are not as similar to the ReMane 5 as one would think; the movie's Flanderized portrayal of some characters, most notably Rainbow Dash.

 

It's there that I believe that the EqG counterparts of the main characters are not as mature and have not had the same life experiences as their counterparts on four legs. The main giveaway is the intrinsic differences between the EqG society, which more accurately mirrors our own, and Equestrian society, which is more idealized. Equestrian society offers ponies at the emotional and mental equivalent of a human's mid-to-late teen age many more adult freedoms, responsibilities, and real-life experiences than our/EqG's world does. On top of that, the differences inherent between a fantasy world and a quasi-realistic world make some events that happened in Equestria in episodes we are familiar with nearly impossible in the human world.

 

For example, take "Hurricane Fluttershy". Of course, we know such an event happened in Equestria. But we don't know whether or not an equivalent or parallel event ever happened at Canterlot High. We don't know if Fluttershy definitively got over her past demons the way she did in Equestria or if Rainbow Dash ever showed the maturity, restraint, and competence as a leader to push Fluttershy to improve without breaking her. Of course, it could not have been "tornado duty" as these versions of Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy do not have these powers and abilities. Could a similar event have happened in the past at something else like a community event? The movie does not give us any hints toward that, so that theory is completely open to speculation without even a hint at a definitive answer.

 

Thus, my main point is that the HuMane 5 might not be as mature and responsible as the ReMane 5 we're used to seeing in the 91 episodes of the main series. We don't know if they've had the same kind of real-world experiences to build character. On the flip side of the coin, Sunset Shimmer has experience in both the human world and Equestria as a former student of Princess Celestia, one of the wisest characters that world has. Sunset Shimmer, although newly adjusting to a normal life after villainy, seems to have been more composed and mature than the ReMane 5 going off their actions in Rainbow Rocks.

 

So, the short answer is, they're good for friends, but not really for role models. I think Sunset Shimmer should actually be looking to older characters, particularly adults, for guidance in this aspect. However, that doesn't completely rule out Sunset learning from them either way. They'll experience life's challenges together no matter who's mentoring who. It's just that for Sunset, in the position she's in, she needs to look up to someone who has had definitively more life experience than her in their setting. She needs that kind of adult guidance. Ideally, if they fleshed out VP Luna's backstory in parallel to her Equestrian counterpart in line with my theory (where Princess was corrupted by Nightmare Moon, maybe VP Luna may have been a vagrant thief or a dishonest swindler in the past), she would make a great role model to help Sunset Shimmer through her newfound role in life.

I'm well aware that the human mane 5 haven't gone through the experiences that the pony mane 5 have, to become better and mature as they should, but isn't that all the more reason why that proves they're not good role-models for Sunny (because they haven't become like the pony mane 6, who certainly are in a MUCH better position to guide Sunset along the path of friendship, herself), AND be better friends to her, in the process (because, again- the human mane 5 just continue to treat poor Sunny like shit), so they suck as friends, as well. And because many, arguably, in the human world  don't prioritize the value of trust, friendship, and all that stuff like Equestria does, Sunny's going to have a hell of a more difficult time learning friendship there than she would, if she were learning back where she rightfully belongs- Equestria.

 

I also have to disagree on the adult role model- Principal Celestia or VP Luna, in particular, as both have seen acting as nothing but foils, near antagonists to the human cast, being quick to back them into a corner, suspecting them, and such, to where the mane 6 seem to have to constantly defend themselves against the adults' accusations, when they try to put them in a bad light. So I don't think Sunny should be running to them any time soon. (in fact, I think she'd be much better off back in Equestria, making up with her old mentor, and being put under the supervision and guidance of pony Luna- for them to learn and grow off each other, since both are/ and or have been in similar circumstances, and could use more grown and learning on both their parts)

[Ziltoid the Omniscient 286]

Sure. I mean, they're pretty much her only friends at Canterlot High after the shit she pulled.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Sure. I mean, they're pretty much her only friends at Canterlot High after the shit she pulled.

but would you REALLY call someone who does the stuff the mane 5 did- and still does to Sunset (as listed in the op) your friends?

[NiceTryGuy 5]

I dunno. She claims to have made friends with the mane 5 after the first movie, but from then on- in the second movie, and even the holiday special comic, they seem to treat her poorly. Staring with the second movie (Rainbow Rocks), Sunny is supposedly 'forgiven' of her past mistakes by her 'friends', the mane 5, but they keep making it a point to bring up her past errors, in conversation, whenever she's around, continuously reminding her of how awful she was- whether it's intentional or not. (And I hardly believe that it's unintentional, unless the mane 5 are completely unaware that Sunny's part of their group and follows them everywhere, and if she's in immediate line of vision and close proximity to them- and she is 99 % of the time, then there's really no excuse for that). To say “no offense” when you continuously drag up someone's past bad behavior and throw it in their face, isn't an acceptable apology.

 

And while Sunset Shimmer's just has SO much fortitude, and is SO strong to just take all the constant reminders – not only from the entire school (including the Principal and vice, but from her so-called FRIENDS) and just grin and bear it, we can see the constant reminders exasperating, embarrassing, and just plain making poor Sunny feel so bad and riddled with guilt. ): And that's the last thing she needs from the people she calls her '”friends”, now that she's opened herself up to try learning about friendship, as Twilight has.

 

Now in the 2014 EQG holiday special in the IDW comics- which takes place after Rainbow Rocks, Sunset Shimmer's “friends” still treat her horribly, after Sunset proved herself changed to such a degree that she was able to transform with the elements of harmony and help the Mane 5 save the world from the sirens. The Mane 5 turn on Sunny; judging her at the drop of a hat, and leaving her sobbing on the floor (not to mention none of them notice Sunny being homeless and living in the library, or offered to take her into their home, as they did with Twilight)

 

But even after all that, Sunny quickly (perhaps TOO quickly) forgives them, while none of them apologized to her.

 

Would YOU stay with a group of people who you call friends, but treat you in that same way, as the Mane 5 do with Sunny, as seen by the aforementioned examples? Should Sunny, herself, continue to ally herself with the Mane 5, under such treatment? Or would she be better off back in Equestria, given her current circumstances, in the presence of so-called “friends” who continue to accuse her, judge her, drag up her past, and make her feel bad about herself, after they've claimed to “forgiven” her? Are these the kind of friends Sunny really should be keeping around, as supposed "role-models" to help her better learn about friendship?

I believe Sunset Shimmer is dam lucky to have friends like the Human Five. Just consider the following: Sunset has spent several years make the lives of everyone at Canterlot High a living hell, broke up the Friendship between the Human Five by turning them against each other and did something pretty bad to Rarity who was competing with her during the Spring Fling. All in all she was pretty horrible person and that was before they learnt about her plan of conquering another dimension. They had every reason to be mad at her, yet after Twilight ask them to help Sunset Shimmer they did it. They could’ve refused. They could’ve threaten it as a chore they had to do because of Twilight. But instead the befriended Sunset and help her on her path to become a better person. They included her into the group and hang around with her all the time – even after school.

 

You said that they constantly bring up her past errors in conversations whenever she’s around, but that’s not true. It only happened two times and that was during a crisis were a group of magical creatures from Equestria turned the students against each other. And both times the apologized immediately – yes, I’m pretty sure this was genuine unless you believe someone like Fluttershy is the kind of person who intentionally tries to make other people feel guilty – and never did it again for the rest of the movie. Interestingly the third time the demon incident was mentioned it was done by Princess Twilight herself so according to your logic that would make her a terrible friend, too.

 

As for the comic, yes the comic was pretty horrible and portrayed them as bad friends. However, the comics might be based on FiM and EQG but they are hardly canon. Like someone else said once: It’s just licensed fanfics. Some of them are pretty good like the first EQG comic while others are really horrible. Just look at Issue #25 & #26 from the main series where they turned Twilight into a huge hypocrite who refuses to use magic to stop some criminals that harass and rob people in broad daylight because they are citizens of Equestria.

Edited January 8, 2015 by NiceTryGuy

[flutterfan12 20]

I personally hated the holiday comic because like you pointed out, the Humane Five treat Sunset terribly and that is supposed to take place after RR. As for my take on the movie's portrayal, I think that the girls are still trying to figure out how to include Sunset in their group. Which is no easy feat for all involved, when you consider that she is the one that drove a wedge between them but also at the same time, it seemed that Sunset while trying to be a part of the group was keeping her distance as she still didn't feel comfortable with the idea of freinds.