Is the Equestria we saw back in season 1, the same as in season 3, onward?

[ManaMinori 4,149]

The Equestria we were introduced to in the very first episode of MLP the same Equestria seen in season 3, 4, and 5? Many would answer, yes, without a doubt, but is it, really? Going back to the episode “Too Many Pinkie Pies”, upon discovering the mirror pool, Pinkie enters it and upon exiting it, the camera does a complete 180. This leads me to believe that the mirror pool is not only a portal, but Pinkie goes to this other universe, and the narrative NEVER returns to the original world. Thus showing that everything in the show from that point on is a different AU than the one we were originally introduced to, since the camera never reverses that narrative. We already know that mirrors to alternate worlds exist in Equestria- the portal in Equestria Girls, and the portal to other worlds that Starswirl and Celestia went through. So it's also possible that from that in the original Equestria we left behind at that precise point in season 3, when the camera pans as Pinkie steps out the mirror pool, that Twilight remained a unicorn in that Equestria, or that many other occurrences we see from that point in “Too many Pinkie Pies” ever really occurred in the original Equestria at all, either.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Well we can never know for sure, but this question sounds similar to thought experiments like "is this all a dream" or "are we in the Matrix?"

 

Just as much as the Pinkie clones could be argued to being just as much Pinkie Pie as the original, a thought that sends her into an existential crisis, a similar question could be raised here. Even if the Equestria we're in is not the same Equestria we started in, does it matter?

 

Hell, play Bioshock Infinite again sometime, Booker and Elizabeth go into three or something different realities. All of them change based around one outcome happening differently and even then, things are very different but not so different that they are completely unrecognizable. In one Booker is dead, in another the Vox Populi have guns, in one Mrs. Comstock is dead, and another she's not, etc. etc. It never occurs to Booker to return to the Prime reality. He still assumes that those who sent him will still be there, and will still clear his debt if he brings them the girl in whatever new reality he appears in.

 

The same could be said here. If the events of the episode still hold sway, then whatever reality Pinkie left got "Pinkie" back by the end. In that case, the only difference would be Too Many Pinkie Pies did not happen in that universe. Talk about butterflies all you like, but I don't see the events of that episode rocking the foundations of Equestria whether they happened or not. What if Twilight still becomes an Alicorn in all possible realities? Going back to Bioshock Infinite Elizabeth talks about multiversal constants, "there's always a man, a city, and a lighthouse; only the details change." (Something I personally wish they had more games to space out over to make that idea more meaningful but we can't all have Elizabeth's gifts.) So maybe something like that happening is always meant to happen to Twilight, especially if we apply the concept of destiny more literally. It may not be canon, but those who read Fallout Equestria might remember some credence to that point, even if not all "details" of that destiny are necessarily good ones.

 

So to turn the question back around "if the Equestria we're in is not the same one as season 3 onwards . . . does it really matter?"

Edited April 22, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,306]

Rampant speculation.  Your entire argument hinges on a 180 degree camera rotation that existed purely to be visually interesting.  The mirror pool creates duplicates of whoever enters it.  There's no reliable indication in-show that entering the mirror pool transports you anywhere, and a camera flip that occurred merely to follow the original Pinkie into the pool and the clone out of the pool in a creative way doesn't suggest alternate universes.

 

What if every time you came out of the pool you were in a different universe?  Have you done that since you first watched "Too Many Pinkie Pies?"  If you re-watched "Too Many Pinkie Pies" since, were you re-watching the episode you originally watched?  Or were you seeing a different universe "Too Many Pinkie Pies" for the first time?

[Pinkamena-Pills 6,840]

This scene?

....

full scene..

 

It was just a camera trick to put emphasis on the clone Pinkie coming out of the pool. That's it...The Pinkie that first came out of the pool after the first chant, during the 180 camera spin, was a clone..this is indicated by the Pinkie furthest from the pool(The real Pinkie obviously) saying "Wow, the legend is true--it really works!" The clone(Pinkie closes to pool) then goes loony, and makes itself obvious to the viewer its a clone.

Unless your implying the original Pinkie started to act like a loony clone for no reason, and for the rest of the show after this 180 camera pan and entering this new AU(which you have to be since your saying she apparently stepped through the pool into another AU). Even then, it would make no sense character wise.. 

 

 

Yes, she was still chanting the first time, yes, their might've had to have been a time delay between her going into the pool, waiting for the clone to come out, or the fact that the 2nd time the clones just came out of the pool without going in first. Honestly, its the mirror pool, its broken to begin with. To imply that the writers switched into a alternate reality out of the blue for no reason, removing Pinkie from that universe, and possibly never sending her back(or possibly sending her back at the end due to Twilight) is far too complicated.

Your grasping at phantoms. 

Edited April 22, 2015 by Pinkamena-Pills

[Steel Accord 6,660]

@, @@Pinkamena-Pills,

 

All right guys, no need to be so cruelly dismissive. If you don't think that's the case, just say you don't think that's the case, no need to pile on.

 

Before you say anything, I didn't say Muffin was necessarily wrong in my argument, only that right or wrong, the difference is largely academic. Further, I extrapolated using the world's internal logic and comparing it to a similar fictional source, not dismissing it outright with meta knowledge. (Which I personally view as cheating with these sorts of questions.)

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,306]

All right guys, no need to be so cruelly dismissive.

The OP's argument holds no water, and - if it did - we've punched enough holes in it to drain it.  It appears as though the OP stopped examining the scene immediately following the camera flip.  And then just ran with that one thing.  There's a moment in that same scene that essentially defeats his own argument.  It's imaginative, sure, but it doesn't make sense on any level.  I'm not willing to latch onto every baseless bit of head-canon that the fandom introduces, and I'm sure that - were Pinkie traveling between universes - there'd have been mention of it in that episode.

 

And this matters to some of us.  The Rainbow Dash that appears in the first episode?  Same Rainbow Dash that appears in season five.  Guess why I care.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

The OP's argument holds no water, and - if it did - we've punched enough holes in it to drain it.  It appears as though the OP stopped examining the scene immediately following the camera flip.  And then just ran with that one thing.  There's a moment in that same scene that essentially defeats his own argument.  It's imaginative, sure, but it doesn't make sense on any level.  I'm not willing to latch onto every baseless bit of head-canon that the fandom introduces, and I'm sure that - were Pinkie traveling between universes - there'd have been mention of it in that episode.

 

And this matters to some of us.  The Rainbow Dash that appears in the first episode?  Same Rainbow Dash that appears in season five.  Guess why I care.

 

Well I know why you care. You literally worship her! (Not to my disapproval, just emphasizing.)

 

My only point was that you shouldn't make someone feel bad about being wrong. If I wasn't punished for every time I said the wrong answer in math class, and merely gently corrected, I might have learned my times tables.

 

I don't accept or agree with any head canons that make Celestia anything other than the fair ruler She's depicted as, especially those that try to color Her as outright malevolent, but I don't try tell the speaker they're "thinking too much." That just comes off as disrespectful.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,306]

My only point was that you shouldn't make someone feel bad about being wrong. If I wasn't punished for every time I said the wrong answer in math class, and merely gently corrected, I might have learned my times tables.

I understand that it was something of a massive slap-in-the-face when the Spider-Man clone arc was introduced; suggesting that the Spidey comic book-enthusiasts knew and loved and collected wasn't the original Spidey.  For me, even considering the OP's scenario is similar in nature.  But, again, it simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

 

I think if you're going to earnestly put forth your head-canon you should be mindful of how it might affect others, and you should expect some contention / make the scenario as bulletproof as possible before positing it.

 

 

 

but I don't rage against the speaker for holding them.

If you think that was "rage," you don't know me at all. x3  That was "OP, you so silly" level replying.

[Pinkamena-Pills 6,840]

I didn't say Muffin was necessarily wrong in my argument, only that right or wrong, the difference is largely academic.

 

 The OP is presenting that during the episode Too Many Pinkie's, that during this 180 camera pan, Pinkie leaves her original reality into a new one, and according to the OP, never to return(because the 180 camera spin never happens once more). 

 

'Too many Pinkie's' was Season 3 Ep.3

'It's about Time' was Season 2 Ep.20 

What am i getting at?

We find out later that because of what happened in 'It's About Time', Tirek showed up at the end of Season 4. 

How was Tirek defeated? Rainbow Power. How was Rainbow Power acquired? The keys. How do you get the keys? Well, you needed to be one of the Elements of Harmony, among other things. 

My point is, since in the OP's assumption, Pinkie is removed from the original Equestria, inserted and stays in another AU forever, the old Equestria is doomed, because the element of Laughter no longer exists, thus, giving no way to beat Tirek in the way he was beaten, if at all, as we have no idea if Twilight could've actually won the battle, despite how fierce she was.

I say that's pretty somber for the original Equestria Pinkie came from.

 

Im not being mean or anything, im just stating that what the OP is stating, is just not possible, and the writers would not do such, as they have no reason to.  And i think such would have had a large impact on the Equestria Pinkie had been removed from.

 

Unless the writers want to give the subtle message of 'Hey, if you wanna have fun with all your friends, go clone yourself, while inadvertently leaving your universe behind, and your land to possible certain doom' 

[Steel Accord 6,660]

 

 

I understand that it was something of a massive slap-in-the-face when the Spider-Man clone arc was introduced; suggesting that the Spidey comic book-enthusiasts knew and loved and collected wasn't the original Spidey.  For me, even considering the OP's scenario is similar in nature.  But, again, it simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

 

Well I personally liked the Clone Saga. I mean this goes back to my original post, if I found out I was only two years old and was cloned from someone else and placed into his life, it would be odd certainly but I really wouldn't see much of a difference. I'm living the life of the original and his memories and personality are mine as well, so that makes me Anthony. (Although I would like to know what happened to my predecessor.)

 

So if Peter had all of his memories and all of the experiences that shaped him, and was still being Spider Man on top of being with Mary Jane, why would it matter if Ben was the original? It's pretty clear who "won."

 

That's just me though, you're of course free to not like the Clone Saga for your own reasons.

 

 

 

I think if you're going to earnestly put forth your head-canon you should be mindful of how it might affect others, and you should expect some contention / make the scenario as bulletproof as possible before positing it.

 

Disagreement though does not have to be combative though. Nor does the idea control how you see Equestria. Nor me for that matter because I do disagree with the OP as well. 

 

 

 

If you think that was "rage," you don't know me at all. x3  That was "OP, you so silly" level replying.

 

Hence the edit, I do know what your rage looks like. 

 

Even still "OP, you so silly" implies a level of condescension that can be just as insulting.

 The OP is presenting that during the episode Too Many Pinkie's, that during this 180 camera pan, Pinkie leaves her original reality into a new one, and according to the OP, never to return(because the 180 camera spin never happens once more). 

 

'Too many Pinkie's' was Season 3 Ep.3

'It's about Time' was Season 2 Ep.20 

What am i getting at?

We find out later that because of what happened in 'It's About Time', Tirek showed up at the end of Season 4. 

How was Tirek defeated? Rainbow Power. How was Rainbow Power acquired? The keys. How do you get the keys? Well, you needed to be one of the Elements of Harmony, among other things. 

My point is, since in the OP's assumption, Pinkie is removed from the original Equestria, inserted and stays in another AU forever, the old Equestria is doomed, because the element of Laughter no longer exists, thus, giving no way to beat Tirek in the way he was beaten, if at all, as we have no idea if Twilight could've actually won the battle, despite how fierce she was.

I say that's pretty somber for the original Equestria Pinkie came from.

 

Im not being mean or anything, im just stating that what the OP is stating, is just not possible, and the writers would not do such, as they have no reason to.  And i think such would have had a large impact on the Equestria Pinkie had been removed from.

 

Unless the writers want to give the subtle message of 'Hey, if you wanna have fun with all your friends, go clone yourself, while inadvertently leaving your universe behind, and your land to possible certain doom' 

 

See though, I agree with all that. I disagree with the OP and believe that this Equestria is Equestria Prime. Your argument proves that. Huzzah!

 

Thing is, I approve specifically because you used continuity and the setting's internal logic to prove your point as opposed to out of universe mandates.

 

Guys, keep in mind here, I agree with both of you and not the OP, I just took issue with the manner in which you both posted not the actual message or intent.

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,306]

Even still "OP, you so silly" implies a level of condescension that can be just as insulting.

Was the OP insulted?  We're only hearing from you. xD

 

 

 

Nor me for that matter because I do disagree with the OP as well.

Join us.  Join us, Steel.  Tell the OP you disagree with them; they even sounded as though they expected people to tell them they were wrong.

 

And when you introduce affection into an equation, it damn well matters.  I've actually thought of this a number of times: Were I to lose someone I care about, would I want them to be cloned?  Even if the clone was 100% certain they were the original?  No the hell I wouldn't want that; nor would I automatically love the clone.  That's unfair to me and them both.  The original would not have returned.  Being cloned would not benefit the original in any way, shape, or form.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

 

 

Was the OP insulted?  We're only hearing from you. xD

 

Maybe, maybe not, the principal is the same.

 

 

 

Join us.  Join us, Steel.  Tell the OP you disagree with them; they even sounded as though they expected people to tell them they were wrong.

 

Ummm I'm already on your side with this one. You can re-read my original post, it's critiquing the OP as well.

 

 

 

And when you introduce affection into an equation, it damn well matters.  I've actually thought of this a number of times: Were I to lose someone I care about, would I want them to be cloned?  Even if the clone was 100% certain they were the original?  No the hell I wouldn't want that; nor would I automatically love the clone.  That's unfair to me and them both.  The original would not have returned.  Being cloned would not benefit the original in any way, shape, or form.

 

 

Are you talking about Peter and Ben, Rainbow, or someone else in this case? I'm confused.

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,306]

Are you talking about Peter and Ben, Rainbow, or someone else in this case? I'm confused.

Whosoever I care about.  Even if YOU'RE the clone, it still sucks for the original and their loved ones.  And, ultimately, will begin to suck for the clone should they learn that they were cloned. xD  I imagine it's more Earth-shattering than finding out you were adopted.

 

PSA: Cloning hurts; don't do it.

 

And no one was being cruel.  Thoroughly debunking an argument from the get-go can be an act of mercy.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

 

 

Whosoever I care about.  Even if YOU'RE the clone, it still sucks for the original and their loved ones.  And, ultimately, will begin to suck for the clone should they learn that they were cloned. xD  I imagine it's more Earth-shattering than finding out you were adopted.   PSA: Cloning hurts; don't do it.

 

Well agree to disagree on this one, I support the advancement of cloning in life science.

 

 

 

And no one was being cruel.  Thoroughly debunking an argument from the get-go can be an act of mercy.

 

Again, agree to disagree, it's in how one debunks.

 

"Not quite true, here's why . . ." gives off a very different message than, "you're being silly, here's why . . ."

[colt_following 169]

Wow guys. Come on... It's been explained enough I think. Don't be rude and DON'T continue that side of the argument if you don't have to.

 

I for one contemplated the possibility, but for me the OP's theory is not emphasized/explained made known at all at any point. Interesting theory.