Can clichés turn into archetypes?

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

My questions are

1. Can a cliché stay long enough to become an archetype? Are they even connected or not?
2. If so, what is the line between them? I think an archetype is a much more big scaled matter, but where is the line?
3. Are all archetypes came from clichés? (even though Jung said something about collective unconscious, but aren't clichés are also formed by collective unconsciousness?)
4. Can an archetype turn into a cliché?
5. Is it just a matter of numbers of common clichés to be considered as an archetype?
6. Can genres turn into archetypes? (like zombies or slashers, harem animes etc.)

As far as I know, what I think is

1. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. For example, orphan hero.
2. I think archetypes are like soils where others can grow, clichés are yet to turn into something that others to grow on it. Clichés are tools on a parallel level.
3. Some of the oldest ideas like something related to the most basic things (like the mother figure) can be an archetype before a cliché.
4. If you write a shitty story based on an archetype and do nothing original, it becomes clichéd. An empty frame.
5. I think it's about how deep it sinks into human common consciousness. It's like a feedback between mind that creates stories and stories affect minds.
6. I think certain sub-genres are too specific to be an archetype. They need to be chopped down into smaller elements and permeate into other stories.

 

I want to know what you think.

[BornAgainBrony 2,398]

Archetypes were originally a creation of a somewhat wild-minded psychologist, Carl Jung. Those archetypes were derived from stereotypes that already existed. And while a lot of Jung's work is outdated or disregarded, the archetypes he created are a tool that nearly every writer uses (sometimes whether they realize it or not).

Anyway, Archetypes describe personalities. I think the word you're looking for is tropes.

Edited October 19, 2018 by BornAgainBrony

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

2 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Archetypes were originally a creation of a somewhat wild-minded psychologist, Carl Jung. Those archetypes were derived from stereotypes that already existed. And while a lot of Jung's work is outdated or disregarded, the archetypes he created are a tool that nearly every writer uses (sometimes whether they realize it or not).

Anyway, Archetypes describe personalities. I think the word you're looking for is tropes.

Tank you for your explanation. I’m most curious about if they are able to evolve into each other / if they are interchangable and has a same root in some degree. Are those archetypes were built in our nature (instincts and brain structure) or just stuck that way (cultural creation by relatively pure and free intentions). I am curious where the line is between mechanical structure of the brain and cultural-historical creations human minds have made. I want to know how pure human creation can be without being steained  by reality.