Princess Celestia's mercy in MLP

[Dawnshine Wonder 165]

For haters of Princess Celestia who seem to think Nightmare Moon "barely did anything" need I remind you of the episode Princess Twilight Sparkle from season 4, showed their past confrontation where Nightmare Moon attempted to murder Celestia out of jealousy and feeling of not being appreciated as much as her. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate either of them, Princess Luna was sorry and Princess Celestia did forgive her, but this is a topic that has come up recently, and I believe it is a point that needed to be made.

I don't feel like Princess Celestia is to blame for Princess Luna's outbursts, however I do think Princess Celestia could've been more thoughtful in her approach to Princess Luna's feelings of loneliness after the fact. After that problem with Tantabus in season 5, Princess Luna's mental health problems in the show should have been addressed, not just leave it up to Starlight Glimmer to clear up yet another misunderstanding between them both.

As for people who called Princess Celestia a tyrant, you clearly don't know this character very well if you think that, as tyrants are known to rule through fear, misuse of force and lack compassion toward their enemies. She doesn't take the "holier than thou" route like some other leaders would do, she is willing to give others the benefit of the doubt and a chance to make amends, even if they had been punished for an attack from before like Discord was for 1,000 years. Entrusting Twilight Sparkle to deal with Tirek in the season 4 finale was a calculated risk that had to be made with the circumstances they were in, and if you had paid attention to that episode and its context you'd know this. Honestly some MLP fans feel like they are beyond help sometimes, while I won't call out specific names here, let me just say this, I wouldn't trust any of those fans with important military decisions in this fictional world. Not only do they miss the point of the show, where leaders show restraint with the use of force in tense situations in order to maintain peace and stability of their kingdom, but they also show lack of knowledge on a thing called nuance, not resorting to violence every time is important to de-escalate conflict or to not give your society the impression that violence is okay just because you don't like someone, when applied with careful planning, in general, rehabilitation does work, certainly a lot better than the shoot first ask questions later claptrap some people use, if you normalize the use of violence, your crime rate goes up, not down. I was once left with the impression that MLP fandom understood this already, but apparently, some do not.

 

 

Edited January 27 by Dawnshine Wonder

[SidewinderX 21]

On 2025-01-27 at 8:31 AM, Dawnshine Wonder said:

For haters of Princess Celestia who seem to think Nightmare Moon "barely did anything" need I remind you of the episode Princess Twilight Sparkle from season 4, showed their past confrontation where Nightmare Moon attempted to murder Celestia out of jealousy and feeling of not being appreciated as much as her. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate either of them, Princess Luna was sorry and Princess Celestia did forgive her, but this is a topic that has come up recently, and I believe it is a point that needed to be made.

I don't feel like Princess Celestia is to blame for Princess Luna's outbursts, however I do think Princess Celestia could've been more thoughtful in her approach to Princess Luna's feelings of loneliness after the fact. After that problem with Tantabus in season 5, Princess Luna's mental health problems in the show should have been addressed, not just leave it up to Starlight Glimmer to clear up yet another misunderstanding between them both.

As for people who called Princess Celestia a tyrant, you clearly don't know this character very well if you think that, as tyrants are known to rule through fear, misuse of force and lack compassion toward their enemies. She doesn't take the "holier than thou" route like some other leaders would do, she is willing to give others the benefit of the doubt and a chance to make amends, even if they had been punished for an attack from before like Discord was for 1,000 years. Entrusting Twilight Sparkle to deal with Tirek in the season 4 finale was a calculated risk that had to be made with the circumstances they were in, and if you had paid attention to that episode and its context you'd know this. Honestly some MLP fans feel like they are beyond help sometimes, while I won't call out specific names here, let me just say this, I wouldn't trust any of those fans with important military decisions in this fictional world. Not only do they miss the point of the show, where leaders show restraint with the use of force in tense situations in order to maintain peace and stability of their kingdom, but they also show lack of knowledge on a thing called nuance, not resorting to violence every time is important to de-escalate conflict or to not give your society the impression that violence is okay just because you don't like someone, when applied with careful planning, in general, rehabilitation does work, certainly a lot better than the shoot first ask questions later claptrap some people use, if you normalize the use of violence, your crime rate goes up, not down. I was once left with the impression that MLP fandom understood this already, but apparently, some do not.

 

 

Gee, I wonder who you're referring to.

I already said I don't think she's a tyrant, and I honestly don't hate her. She's just bad at her job. And say what you will about my military knowledge, I know that having your capital overrun twice in broad daylight is a sign of serious military failure. I mean, the fact the the Royal Guard stinks is basically universally accepted (see here and here). Celestia disbanded SMILE, the Equestrian intelligence service, because of a single incident. And as many real, actual, qualified generals will tell you—yes, I know I'm not one of them—intelligence and information are critical. To quote Sun Tzu, "It is only the enlightened ruler and the wise general who will use the highest intelligence of the army for the purposes of spying..." The fact that Celestia puts minimal funding and effort into national defense is issue number one, because it puts at risk the same ponies you say she cares for and has great mercy toward. Perhaps she thinks that a small army means Equestria will be left alone, but she should have figured out that it doesn't work by now. Since we know she's not evil, she's either inept or dense. Neither are very good leadership qualities. I agree that violence is not and should never be the first answer, but that's no excuse to not have some kind of competent military force.

Additionally, despite your claims that Celestia is in many ways better than real world leaders (which I don't disagree with, to some extent), we see no effort by Celestia to improve the quality of life for Equestrian citizens. Bullying is evidently a problem in Equestrian schools, but we don't see any kind of program to fight or prevent this. Most real-world countries do have programs and departments to try and handle bullying. There doesn't seem to be a VA/healthcare program or similar for Equestrian heroes and veterans (it took Applejack a year to get enough funding to replace Granny Smith's hip). Real-world nations usually do have some kind of program to pay for the medical care of soldiers, heroes, and their families. And even when they don't, an online collection will usually step up and raise the money anyway.

As one more point, on your 'rehabilitation' point: Yes, rehabilitation is good, barring extreme circumstances. Not giving a darn about the victims and not requiring the perpetrator to provide any sort of compensation or spend time working to earn the trust of the victims is not rehabilitation. It's hand-waving the effects of a criminal's acts because you're 'merciful' and don't seem to care about those negatively impacted or even killed by either the criminal or your (Celestia's) neglect. 

This leads up to my final argument: Celestia is too detached and old to be a good leader who acts for the interests of the people. I mean, Celestia is 1000+ years old and shows no sign of dying anytime soon. She thinks extra-long term. Longer than the lifetime of a pony. This means that, for her, famine/damages/disasters will eventually clear up, and for her it will be the blink of an eye. For her citizens, it could be their entire lifespan or a good chunk of it. A probable reason for the lack of a school bullying program is the fact that, to her, it is a 'minor problem' that will be solved eventually. Add this to the fact that she has nobody who can point out mistakes she makes—I mean, who is going to challenge a being that they think is infallible, and might banish them to the moon or whatever if they step out of line? I'm not saying Celestia would, but her ponies don't know that. Oh, and at her age, she might be getting Alzheimer's. That won't help either.

 

Most of these points are echoed by this blog post.

Edited January 29 by SidewinderX

[Dawnshine Wonder 165]

1 hour ago, SidewinderX said:

Gee, I wonder who you're referring to.

I already said I don't think she's a tyrant, and I honestly don't hate her. She's just bad at her job. And say what you will about my military knowledge, I know that having your capital overrun twice in broad daylight is a sign of serious military failure. I mean, the fact the the Royal Guard stinks is basically universally accepted (see here and here). Celestia disbanded SMILE, the Equestrian intelligence service, because of a single incident. And as many real, actual, qualified generals will tell you—yes, I know I'm not one of them—intelligence and information are critical. To quote Sun Tzu, "It is only the enlightened ruler and the wise general who will use the highest intelligence of the army for the purposes of spying..." The fact that Celestia puts minimal funding and effort into national defense is issue number one, because it puts at risk the same ponies you say she cares for and has great mercy toward. Perhaps she thinks that a small army means Equestria will be left alone, but she should have figured out that it doesn't work by now. Since we know she's not evil, she's either inept or dense. Neither are very good leadership qualities. I agree that violence is not and should never be the first answer, but that's no excuse to not have some kind of competent military force.

Additionally, despite your claims that Celestia is in many ways better than real world leaders (which I don't disagree with, to some extent), we see no effort by Celestia to improve the quality of life for Equestrian citizens. Bullying is evidently a problem in Equestrian schools, but we don't see any kind of program to fight or prevent this. Most real-world countries do have programs and departments to try and handle bullying. There doesn't seem to be a VA/healthcare program or similar for Equestrian heroes and veterans (it took Applejack a year to get enough funding to replace Granny Smith's hip). Real-world nations usually do have some kind of program to pay for the medical care of soldiers, heroes, and their families. And even when they don't, an online collection will usually step up and raise the money anyway.

As one more point, on your 'rehabilitation' point: Yes, rehabilitation is good, barring extreme circumstances. Not giving a darn about the victims and not requiring the perpetrator to provide any sort of compensation or spend time working to earn the trust of the victims is not rehabilitation. It's hand-waving the effects of a criminal's acts because you're 'merciful' and don't seem to care about those negatively impacted or even killed by either the criminal or your (Celestia's) neglect. 

This leads up to my final argument: Celestia is too detached and old to be a good leader who acts for the interests of the people. I mean, Celestia is 1000+ years old and shows no sign of dying anytime soon. She thinks extra-long term. Longer than the lifetime of a pony. This means that, for her, famine/damages/disasters will eventually clear up, and for her it will be the blink of an eye. For her citizens, it could be their entire lifespan or a good chunk of it. A probable reason for the lack of a school bullying program is the fact that, to her, it is a 'minor problem' that will be solved eventually. Add this to the fact that she has nobody who can point out mistakes she makes—I mean, who is going to challenge a being that they think is infallible, and might banish them to the moon or whatever if they step out of line? I'm not saying Celestia would, but her ponies don't know that. Oh, and at her age, she might be getting Alzheimer's. That won't help either.

 

Most of these points are echoed by this blog post.

Some people did say she was though, you were in a different thread where this happened, remember?

[SidewinderX 21]

1 hour ago, Dawnshine Wonder said:

Some people did say she was though, you were in a different thread where this happened, remember?

Oh...duh. Sorry about that. 

[Metemponychosis 1,262]

Is this still a thing in 2025?