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[Steel Accord 6,660]

And that's simply due to my upbringing, many years across many churches and denominations have given me very confusing and different perspectives

 

Funny, many years across many churches, in different countries, and whole different religions have given me a more or less consistent impression of the Divine. 

 

Eye of the beholder, I guess.

[Virgil 686]

@@Steel Accord, If you don't mind me asking, you take different stances on things than I normally encounter ( but you've described yourself as 'Unorthodox' so maybe you'll forgive my curiosity); but what is your stance on Christ's becoming human while maintaining his deity ( the whole 100% God 100% Man topic of the Incarnation) and for what reason he died precisely in your view?

[Misty Rose 3,217]

Funny, many years across many churches, in different countries, and whole different religions have given me a more or less consistent impression of the Divine.

 

Eye of the beholder, I guess.

Yeah in the religious rollercoaster that is my life when it comes to the churches me and my mom had gone to, most had the philosophy you do. However the last "religion" we formed a part of before she died was pretty strict. I had to go along with what my mother did and we had to believe God was still very strict as well -_-

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Yeah in the religious rollercoaster that is my life when it comes to the churches me and my mom had gone to, most had the philosophy you do. However the last "religion" we formed a part of before she died was pretty strict. I had to go along with what my mother did and we had to believe God was still very strict as well -_-

 

Again, I'm so sorry for your loss.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on our interpretations of the Divine, but I'm sure your mother is watching over you right now.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Misty Rose 3,217]

Please, I welcome such curiosity!

 

I believe Jesus was man and divine. God downloaded a small fraction of His true mind into the artifice that is the physical world. I believe Jesus was tempted, as we all our. That temptation, with that power though, is why I worship Him.

 

Consider, His time in the garden. He asked His disciples to stay awake with Him and none did. He prayed, "please, take this cup from me!" Jesus was afraid, as any of us would be if we knew people were coming to arrest us. When the authorities came, Jesus could have waved His hand and said,

 

"I am not the Christ you're looking for." They would have left . . . . but He didn't.

 

He knew what He had to do. The night before His death, when everyone had seemingly abandoned and denied Him after everything He taught them. Jesus could hardly be blamed to say, "you know what? Screw this and screw all of you, you deserve to be damned!" The wall of His cell would have blown up and Jesus would've marched off to an opium den . . . but He didn't.

 

The fact that Jesus could have averted His suffering, that He was in the very human and understandable position of thinking He'd be in the right to damn those who would kill one who only offered peace, yet still chose to save us is why I choose to worship Him.

 

Because He was man, that I call Him, God.

 

 

Again, I'm so sorry for your loss.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on our interpretations of the Divine, but I'm sure your mother is watching over you right now.

*sigh* It's still very tough for me, especially now

 

Yeah And I like to think that once people get to Heaven they don't really watch over the living. I mean who would want to check on boring old Earth when you can spend time with the Savior?

[Steel Accord 6,660]

*sigh* It's still very tough for me, especially now

 

Yeah And I like to think that once people get to Heaven they don't really watch over the living. I mean who would want to check on boring old Earth when you can spend time with the Savior?

 

I would! Especially if I still had loved ones in the materium! I have faith all the time that those of us who've moved on reach into our lives in subtle ways, in the same way I said God does.

 

Really, Ms. Mist, you almost seem to be purposefully not allowing yourself any favors when it comes to your relationship with the Divine.

@@Steel Accord, If you don't mind me asking, you take different stances on things than I normally encounter ( but you've described yourself as 'Unorthodox' so maybe you'll forgive my curiosity); but what is your stance on Christ's becoming human while maintaining his deity ( the whole 100% God 100% Man topic of the Incarnation) and for what reason he died precisely in your view?

 

Please, I welcome such curiosity!

 

I believe Jesus was man and divine. God downloaded a small fraction of His true mind into the artifice that is the physical world. I believe Jesus was tempted, as we all our. That temptation, with that power though, is why I worship Him.

 

Consider, His time in the garden. He asked His disciples to stay awake with Him and none did. He prayed, "please, take this cup from me!" Jesus was afraid, as any of us would be if we knew people were coming to arrest us. When the authorities came, Jesus could have waved His hand and said,

 

"I am not the Christ you're looking for." They would have left . . . . but He didn't.

 

He knew what He had to do. The night before His death, when everyone had seemingly abandoned and denied Him after everything He taught them. Jesus could hardly be blamed to say, "you know what? Screw this and screw all of you, you deserve to be damned!" The wall of His cell would have blown up and Jesus would've marched off to an opium den . . . but He didn't.

 

The fact that Jesus could have averted His suffering, that He was in the very human and understandable position of thinking He'd be in the right to damn those who would kill one who only offered peace, yet still chose to save us is why I choose to worship Him.

 

Because He was man, that I call Him, God.

[Virgil 686]

I see, thank you but...

 

 

God downloaded a small fraction of His true mind into the artifice that is the physical world.

Would you mind elaborating upon this statement please? Although, I suppose for the sake of clarity, it might be better for me to ask, "who or what is God, in your position?"

[Yellow Diamond 7,579]

Would you mind elaborating upon this statement please? Although, I suppose for the sake of clarity, it might be better for me to ask, "who or what is God, in your position?"

 

I second this inquiry. Meaning no disrespect, but the statement in question sounds slippery to me -- as if it's code language that isn't accessible to all believers.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

 

I see, thank you but...

 

 

Would you mind elaborating upon this statement please? Although, I suppose for the sake of clarity, it might be better for me to ask, "who or what is God, in your position?"

 

 

All of what I said and that's what you focus on? Honestly I feel a tad slighted.   (Just a tad.)

 

Before I answer your question properly did anything I say satisfy you?

 

@,

 

Good Lord, what are you guys the Inquisition?

 

"In the name of Jesus Chis, amen."

 

"He left out the T!"

 

"Heretic!"

Edited February 24, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Misty Rose 3,217]

I would! Especially if I still had loved ones in the materium! I have faith all the time that those of us who've moved on reach into our lives in subtle ways, in the same way I said God does.

 

Really, Ms. Mist, you almost seem to be purposefully not allowing yourself any favors when it comes to your relationship with the Divine.

 

Please, I welcome such curiosity!

I believe Jesus was man and divine. God downloaded a small fraction of His true mind into the artifice that is the physical world. I believe Jesus was tempted, as we all our. That temptation, with that power though, is why I worship Him.

Consider, His time in the garden. He asked His disciples to stay awake with Him and none did. He prayed, "please, take this cup from me!" Jesus was afraid, as any of us would be if we knew people were coming to arrest us. When the authorities came, Jesus could have waved His hand and said,

"I am not the Christ you're looking for." They would have left . . . . but He didn't.

He knew what He had to do. The night before His death, when everyone had seemingly abandoned and denied Him after everything He taught them. Jesus could hardly be blamed to say, "you know what? Screw this and screw all of you, you deserve to be damned!" The wall of His cell would have blown up and Jesus would've marched off to an opium den . . . but He didn't.

The fact that Jesus could have averted His suffering, that He was in the very human and understandable position of thinking He'd be in the right to damn those who would kill one who only offered peace, yet still chose to save us is why I choose to worship Him.

Because He was man, that I call Him, God.

What favors exactly? And even if my mom were watching over me, it would only be painful for her. She would only watch me suffer with no ability to help anymore -_-

[Yellow Diamond 7,579]

All of what I said and that's what you focus on? Honestly I feel a tad slighted.   (Just a tad.)

 

Before I answer your question properly did anything I say satisfy you?

 

@,

 

Good Lord, what are you guys the Inquisition?

 

"In the name of Jesus Chis, amen."

 

"He left out the T!"

 

"Heretic!"

 

An inquiry for clarification on one's views regarding the ontology of God is neither reactionary nor trivial. I'm genuinely curious because the terminology you offered as the preface is extremely vague. It isn't common to most Christian parlance with which I am familiar.

 

So no, this isn't akin to lambasting someone who believes Jesus was beardless. I never suggested you were a heretic, either.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

An inquiry for clarification on one's views regarding the ontology of God is neither reactionary nor trivial. I'm genuinely curious because the terminology you offered as the preface is extremely vague. It isn't common to most Christian parlance with which I am familiar.

 

So no, this isn't akin to lambasting someone who believes Jesus was beardless. I never suggested you were a heretic, either.

@@Steel Accord, 

 

My sincerest apologies. That was more meant as a joke rather than an attack. Looking back it is clear it doesn't look that way. Again, I'm sorry.

 

To answer both of you, I don't claim to know the Divine's nature. My only concrete belief is that Jesus is the messiah and is Himself a part of the Divine. All else, I assume nothing. For what human mind can comprehend that absolute immensity for an intelligence like God?

[Virgil 686]

@@Steel Accord, You make me sound like I'm grading a paper. I do give you credit for talking about Christ's humanity ( I would disagree on the 'why' Jesus was afraid; e.g. the crucifixion in and of itself would be nothing compared to a just God's wrath upon Sin after all). But I'm simply asking for a clarification on your position. If someone were to ask me a detailed view of my position on such matters, I would readily provide a link to a statement of Faith or Confession (in my case the London Baptist Confession of 1689 to be precise). If we were discussing educational policies, would it be wrong of me to ask how you felt about private schools and if any assistance should be given to them?

 

We are having a civil discussion after all, and sometimes major disagreements are inevitable. But such can only take place if one is willing to state ones position.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

What favors exactly?

 

You just seem to be making your personal struggles so much harder than they have to be. I know your situation is far from idyllic, but I think God wouldn't mind in your situation if you choose to see Him as more benign and less strict. Let the sunshine be like a hug from Him.

 

 

 

And even if my mom were watching over me, it would only be painful for her. She would only watch me suffer with no ability to help anymore

 

She can help you in other ways. Every time her memory brings a smile to your face, that's her. Even if she's gone, her love for you endures.

@@Steel Accord, You make me sound like I'm grading a paper. I do give you credit for talking about Christ's humanity ( I would disagree on the 'why' Jesus was afraid; e.g. the crucifixion in and of itself would be nothing compared to a just God's wrath upon Sin after all). But I'm simply asking for a clarification on your position. If someone were to ask me a detailed view of my position on such matters, I would readily provide a link to a statement of Faith or Confession (in my case the London Baptist Confession of 1689 to be precise). If we were discussing educational policies, would it be wrong of me to ask how you felt about private schools and if any assistance should be given to them?

 

We are having a civil discussion after all, and sometimes major disagreements are inevitable. But such can only take place if one is willing to state ones position.

 

I'm sorry. My bad.

 

Is there any further you'd like to ask? I said I welcome such inquiry, and I meant it. 

 

I was under the false impression you and Spoon were being harsher than you truly were. Again, my mistake.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Virgil 686]

@@Steel Accord, No problem, I have to be rather thick skinned being online and all .

 

But I was curious, because you said Jesus was "part of the Divine". Am I to take this as meaning you do not believe Jesus was fully God? As the Trinitarian view would hold? Or am I misunderstanding your position?

[Steel Accord 6,660]

@@Steel Accord, No problem, I have to be rather thick skinned being online and all .

 

But I was curious, because you said Jesus was "part of the Divine". Am I to take this as meaning you do not believe Jesus was fully God? As the Trinitarian view would hold? Or am I misunderstanding your position?

 

I certainly believe Jesus was fully God.

 

God in three persons, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

[Yellow Diamond 7,579]

@@Steel Accord, 

 

My sincerest apologies. That was more meant as a joke rather than an attack. Looking back it is clear it doesn't look that way. Again, I'm sorry.

 

To answer both of you, I don't claim to know the Divine's nature. My only concrete belief is that Jesus is the messiah and is Himself a part of the Divine. All else, I assume nothing. For what human mind can comprehend that absolute immensity for an intelligence like God?

 

I'm glad to know we've taken a step back from at least one ledge.

 

I must reiterate, however, my previous question, as you did not directly address my curiosity stemming from the following statement:

 

I believe Jesus was man and divine. God downloaded a small fraction of His true mind into the artifice that is the physical world.

 

I haven't any idea what "downloaded a small fraction of His true mind [emphasis mine]" is meant to describe. For reference, the basic Christian confession goes as follows: Jesus Christ, the eternal Son of God, was conceived by the Holy Spirit and was born of the Virgin Mary, assuming from her his true humanity. At face value, your description and that which I provided do not seem to clearly connect. Can you elaborate?

[Steel Accord 6,660]

I haven't any idea what "downloaded a small fraction of His true mind [emphasis mine]" is meant to describe. For reference, the basic Christian confession goes as follows: Jesus Christ, the eternal Son of God, was conceived by the Holy Spirit and was born of the Virgin Mary, assuming from her his true humanity. At face value, your description and that which I provided do not seem to clearly connect. Can you elaborate?

 

I certainly can.

 

What I meant was more of a metaphor than meant to be taken literally. Hence my, still inappropriate, defensiveness to being seriously queried about what I thought was just clever wordplay.

 

My metaphor was meant to illustrate that God is something so ineffably beyond human comprehension (as of now anyway), that Jesus was truly divine in that He was God but He was God in the same sense that looking through a homemade telescope is observing a supernova.

 

The Transfiguration of Jesus in the Book of Matthew is when Jesus lets His disciples get a glimpse of His true nature.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Virgil 686]

@@Steel Accord, Thank you very much for clarifying your position on that. I remember you mentioning in a post somewhere at some point that you identified yourself as... I think it was 'Gnostic Catholic' if I remember correctly. Which from a historical perspective don't really go together. So if I was remembering that right. I'm assuming you are using the term 'Gnostic' in different way than is typically used? (Otherwise you would have given Spoon and I very different answers.)

Edited February 24, 2015 by Virgil

[Steel Accord 6,660]

@@Steel Accord, Thank you very much for clarifying your position on that. I remember you mentioning in a post somewhere at some point that you identified yourself as... I think it was 'Gnostic Catholic' if I remember correctly. Which from a historical perspective don't really go together. So if I was remembering that right. I'm assuming you are using the term 'Gnostic' in different way than is typically used? (Otherwise you would have given Spoon and I very different answers.)

No you are remembering correctly on all accounts.

 

The fact that the Gnostic sect has no formal organization anymore since the actions of my Church, has allowed me to pick through it's ideological ruins and see what I could piece together. What I found was actually quite compelling and it made a great deal of sense to me. To the point that I wondered why the Church excommunicated them in the first place, then I remembered the timeframe of which this took place and stopped wondering.

 

So yes, I would still say I'm a practicing Roman Catholic, I go to Mass, beleive Mary was the Mother of God, consider the Pope my highest (but still human and fallible) spiritual leader and until a Priest says something in mass that directly contradicts what I've read on Gnostic teaching, I see no reason why I can't be both.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Misty Rose 3,217]

You just seem to be making your personal struggles so much harder than they have to be. I know your situation is far from idyllic, but I think God wouldn't mind in your situation if you choose to see Him as more benign and less strict. Let the sunshine be like a hug from Him.

 

 

 

 

She can help you in other ways. Every time her memory brings a smile to your face, that's her. Even if she's gone, her love for you endures.

 

I'm sorry. My bad.

 

Is there any further you'd like to ask? I said I welcome such inquiry, and I meant it.

 

I was under the false impression you and Spoon were being harsher than you truly were. Again, my mistake.

But if God is so benign than why am I suffering and why will I continue to suffer until I'm free, but the people who hurt me are blessed and happy?

 

I guess, but I try not to think of her because right after that smile come the tears

Edited February 24, 2015 by Pink Mist

[Rebel the Wolfgirl 5,619]

But if God is so benign than why am I suffering and why will I continue to suffer until I'm free, but the people who hurt me are blessed and happy?

 

I guess, but I try not to think of her because right after that smile come the tears

I have a grandfather who's in Heaven right now, watching over me. I pray that he is watching over you, too.

 

...Personally, I hope you get over this.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

But if God is so benign than why am I suffering and why will I continue to suffer until I'm free, but the people who hurt me are blessed and happy?

 

Your suffering isn't due to God's will, it's only due to the will of those who inflict such upon you. God gave us free will, some abuse that gift. Would you rather we not be able to choose our own fate?

 

Those who hurt you, their happiness is fleeting. It's like a drug. They need a constant fix. That's not happiness, that's a excitement and it's like a firecracker; a sparkling spatter and then it dies.

 

There is something inside them that they loathe and they see you, for whatever twisted reason, as a reminder of what they lack. It's envy, nothing more.

[Misty Rose 3,217]

Your suffering isn't due to God's will, it's only due to the will of those who inflict such upon you. God gave us free will, some abuse that gift. Would you rather we not be able to choose our own fate?

 

Those who hurt you, their happiness is fleeting. It's like a drug. They need a constant fix. That's not happiness, that's a excitement and it's like a firecracker; a sparkling spatter and then it dies.

 

There is something inside them that they loathe and they see you, for whatever twisted reason, as a reminder of what they lack. It's envy, nothing more.

Actually no, the person who hurt me has nothing to be jealous of. He has friends, both parents, is going to college and will most likely get a job soon. This wasn't due to envy at all -_- He is way more fortunate than I will ever be.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Actually no, the person who hurt me has nothing to be jealous of. He has friends, both parents, is going to college and will most likely get a job soon. This wasn't due to envy at all -_- He is way more fortunate than I will ever be.

 

Don't say that. You don't know what your future holds. You could also get a job and go to college. Or do something else that will also lead to a happy life.

 

Don't think just because someone has everything means they are happy or satisfied, or that such is true happiness. As I said before, there's a difference between a firecracker and a roaring, well kept fire.