Everyone is close minded and or ignorant!

[Oblivion 20,266]

Okay, so hear me out on this, what I mean is that everyone is considered ignorant to someone in some forum or another. Say for instance, and I do hate to bring this up as I have already made myself known as the forums "gun nut", but say I am debating someone about the issue of gun control and I make some  statements based on facts and logic that are indeed actually true, to me and everyone that agrees with me I am 100 percent right, however my opposition would strongly disagree and could even call me "ignorant" for not believing what they believe.

 

Now, I absolutely do not want this to be, or turn into another one of my gun related topics, as that is not the point, what my point is and what I am asking you guys is that do you consider "ignorance", I consider it what the name implies, someone that ignores facts and statistics in order to either obtain a set goal or are just to lazy to find facts to back up their argument.

 

Share your thoughts guys, and remember this isn't a debate!

[Fox 5,330]

We're all different people, so we are all going to have different opinions to things. 

[Oblivion 20,266]

We're all different people, so we are all going to have different opinions to things. 

I know, but if I would have a different opinion than you that wouldn't necessarily make me ignorant , though (and I am not trying to offend anyone) to you I could appear that way, because to you I would be wrong, when two people get in an argument then both sides tend to think that they are right and that the other person is wrong and uneducated on the subject, you see this all the time in the media.

[Arctic Night 884]

I often get called "close-minded" for asking for evidence for credulous claims, whether they pertain to vague spiritual tomfoolery or some idiotic conspiracy theory. It's ironic really, considering that I am the one willing to accept anything as truth if it is proven, whereas my conspiracy friends would never change their minds even if Reality punched them in the face.

 

Me: But why would the aliens want us to embargo Cuban cigars? 

 

Someone else: You're just a close-minded sheep. You wouldn't understand even if I told you.

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

It's been shown in psychological studies that the initial reaction of people being presented with facts that disagree with their opinions is to usually to double down and defend their opinions more strongly.

 

http://www.dailystrength.org/health_blogs/cyndi/article/the-psychology-of-opinion-why-even-facts-wont-change-some-peoples-minds

 

It's kind of depressing, but I suppose it's not an entirely bad thing though. It's pretty easy to cherry pick facts to support any position and not everyone has the time to go and dig for counter examples.

 

So you kind of have to have some conviction in your beliefs, because otherwise you're going to be constantly swinging back and forth when presented with facts.

[Fox 5,330]

 

I know, but if I would have a different opinion than you that wouldn't necessarily make me ignorant , though (and I am not trying to offend anyone) to you I could appear that way, because to you I would be wrong, when two people get in an argument then both sides tend to think that they are right and that the other person is wrong and uneducated on the subject, you see this all the time in the media.

In that case you're more likely trying to enlighten someone of what you think; being modest. Although, if you're pushing really hard that is nothing, but provoking the other one that you're speaking to. 

 

It's really a focus on how others can accept or decline others beliefs. You can't have everyone accepting your views since everyone might not deem it proper to their norms. Some people are mislead by figure heads in terms of a social hierarchy. There's always an alpha for a pack of people that tend to gang up on each other. I mean you can have solo battles, but other people tend to jump in the middle and become involved. For whatever reasons that they feel that they need to be involved. Whether it be defending the person being ultimately prosecuted or if it's someone defending their own beliefs.

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

I've thought quite a bit about this, or at least something akin to it.

 

I agree with the idea that everyone is closed-minded, ignorant, bigoted, or what have you, or at least ought to be. Honestly, "bigot" is one of my favorite terms that people use to describe folks they disagree with. It essentially means stubbornly believing one's own beliefs to be better than other beliefs. But the people who use it the most tend to be the most blatantly bigoted.

 

Now let me tell you something: if you believe anything at all, you're a bigot. Let's take Jim for example. Jim is a staunch atheist, and he doesn't believe it's possible for a god to exist or reasonable to believe in a god. He thinks creationists are nut jobs and avoids them like the plague. Jim is clearly bigoted, as he believes atheism is better than not atheism.

 

Now let's take Joe. (I always seem to use names that start with J for examples. I just realized that. Anyway....) Joe is agnostic, but still an atheist. He doesn't believe in any god, but he doesn't believe it's possible to know for sure one way or the other. He believes one has to be true and the other false, though; either there is a god or there isn't, we just can't know for sure. And he thinks that people who think it's possible to be sure are just plain wrong. Joe is a bigot, as he believes it's just folly to think oneself certain about god.

 

Lastly, let's look at John. John subscribes to a new-agey belief that all beliefs are equally valid and true, and no one's beliefs are better or worse than any others. But if John truly believes that, that ironically means that he believes it's better to believe what he believes than to believe any belief better than another (I know, that was confusing). So really, he's a bigot because he staunchly believes it's wrong to believe any belief is more right than another.

 

The only person who's not a bigot is James, who doesn't believe anything but what he's told, and even then he's iffy.

 

The point is that closed-mindedness/bigotry is an inevitable side-effect of belief. So next time someone calls you a bigot, smile and thank them for complimenting you on your dedication to what you believe.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Henny Penny Benny

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

Oh, also when it comes to talking about guns in the Debate Pit, it seems to just be a really one sided circle jerk of Pro-Gun people swapping conspiracy theories and their plans for the coming revolution.

 

Anyone trying to argue the other side is inevitably going to get real frustrated and have a meltdown.

[Oblivion 20,266]

Oh, also when it comes to talking about guns in the Debate Pit, it seems to just be a really one sided circle jerk of Pro-Gun people swapping conspiracy theories and their plans for the coming revolution.

 

Anyone trying to argue the other side is inevitably going to get real frustrated and have a meltdown.

Like I said, lets try not to even bring up the guns thing.

[Arctic Night 884]

I've thought quite a bit about this, or at least something akin to it.

 

I agree with the idea that everyone is closed-minded, ignorant, bigoted, or what have you, or at least ought to be. Honestly, "bigot" is one of my favorite terms that people use to describe folks they disagree with. It essentially means stubbornly believing one's own beliefs to be better than other beliefs. But the people who use it the most tend to be the most blatantly bigoted.

 

Now let me tell you something: if you believe anything at all, you're a bigot. Let's take Jim for example. Jim is a staunch atheist, and he doesn't believe it's possible for a god to exist or reasonable to believe in a god. He thinks creationists are nut jobs and avoids them like the plague. Jim is clearly bigoted, as he believes atheism is better than not atheism.

 

Now let's take Joe. (I always seem to use names that start with J for examples. I just realized that. Anyway....) Joe is agnostic, but still an atheist. He doesn't believe in any god, but he doesn't believe it's possible to know for sure one way or the other. He believes one has to be true and the other false, though; either there is a god or there isn't, we just can't know for sure. And he thinks that people who think it's possible to be sure are just plain wrong. Joe is a bigot, as he believes it's just folly to think oneself certain about god.

 

Lastly, let's look at John. John subscribes to a new-agey belief that all beliefs are equally valid and true, and no one's beliefs are better or worse than any others. But if John truly believes that, that ironically means that he believes it's better to believe what he believes than to believe any belief better than another (I know, that was confusing). So really, he's a bigot because he staunchly believes it's wrong to believe any belief is more right than another.

 

The only person who's not a bigot is James, who doesn't believe anything but what he's told, and even then he's iffy.

 

The point is that closed-mindedness/bigotry is an inevitable side-effect of belief.

Bigotry

"bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself"

 

I might not agree with the guy who thinks that Obama is going to declare martial law, but that doesn't make me "bigoted" because I still tolerate him. Just because I'm an agnostic atheist doesn't mean that I'm some pompous ******* who takes pride in insulting people's personal beliefs.

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

Bigotry

"bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself"

 

I might not agree with the guy who thinks that Obama is going to declare martial law, but that doesn't make me "bigoted" because I still tolerate him. Just because I'm an agnostic atheist doesn't mean that I'm some pompous ******* who takes pride in insulting people's personal beliefs.

 

Ah, well, I was going off the definition of "bigoted", which included "prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others", not intolerance of those others themselves. I guess my point only works with the word "bigot" by that definition. But the overall point still stands I believe.

[-Nobody- 518]

Everybody is bigoted towards something, whether it's religion, sexualities, etc.

[Oblivion 20,266]

Bigotry

"bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself"

 

I might not agree with the guy who thinks that Obama is going to declare martial law, but that doesn't make me "bigoted" because I still tolerate him. Just because I'm an agnostic atheist doesn't mean that I'm some pompous ******* who takes pride in insulting people's personal beliefs.

Exactly, when I am debating I try my best not to insult the person whom I am debating, even though the other guy may not me quite as nice, though temper and ego plays a large part in it, sometimes it takes everything you have to remain cool headed.

[Arctic Night 884]

Ah, well, I was going off the definition of "bigoted", which included "prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others", not intolerance of those others themselves. I guess my point only works with the word "bigot" by that definition. But the overall point still stands I believe.

I understand the original point, but neither definition always applies. I don't hate the ideas of a god, or of alien abductions, or that vaccines cause autism, I'm just waiting for someone to support these particular propositions. Yes, I have biases. But not all of my opinions are complete biases, because it is not bigoted to say that some things work and some things don't.

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

I understand the original point, but neither definition always applies. I don't hate the ideas of a god, or of alien abductions, or that vaccines cause autism, I'm just waiting for someone to support these particular propositions. Yes, I have biases. But not all of my opinions are complete biases, because it is not bigoted to say that some things work and some things don't.

 

You don't hate the idea of a god, okay. But do you believe it's better not to hate the idea of a god than to hate the idea of a god? Do you believe it's better not to believe in god than to believe in god?

 

Or how about another, much more pointed couple questions: do you believe that brutal, dehumanizing slavery is wrong? Would you be intolerant if people pushed for a return to white supremacy and racial discrimination to the extent of brutal enslavement? Because if so, then you're bigoted about that. But that's not a bad thing; it just means you're dedicated to what you hold to be right and true.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Henny Penny Benny

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Everything is subjective.

 

/thread.

[Kay Dreamer 884]

Everyone is ignorant is some way, shape or form. After all, we've each experienced different lives, and our perspective of the world around us is coloured by our location, gender, race, social situation and wealth. All of these factors change the experiences we're likely to have had, and therefore change the issues we may be ignorant about.

 

As much as we may try, it's impossible to truly see the world through the lens of another person. You can empathise, and you can try to see things from another's perspective - 'walk a mile in their shoes,' so to speak - but you can never completely bypass your own inherent experiences.

[Arctic Night 884]

You don't hate the idea of a god, okay. But do you believe it's better not to hate the idea of a god than to hate the idea of a god? Do you believe it's better not to believe in god than to believe in god?

That depends. I don't know that Jesus or Zeus didn't reveal themselves to one person and zoom back into space, or wherever they come from. 

 

And again, I have some biases. Everyone does. I'm agreeing with you. I like strawberry ice cream better than chocolate, but I can't prove to you that's it's better. I'm simply saying that some things are not biases if they are already a part of Nature, such as that some things seem to work in our Universe, and others not so much. 

 

Nature is not a bigot. 

Edited May 10, 2014 by King Ghidora

[TheSupremeLeaderOfChaos 1,190]

I don't particularly like this topic, because it is practically a breeding ground for arguments and anger, but I'll reply anyway, I guess.

 

Yes, I think everyone is bigoted in a way, shape or form, but some more than others. I guess that makes me a bigot too because of my opinion on this (#1 reason I don't like this topic).

 

Some people are the type that are going to stubbornly cling to their opinions no matter what. Not that that is necessarily a bad thing, if it wasn't for the fact that some people's opinions are dead wrong (Heard about the 276 schoolgirls kidnapped in Uganda?)

 

Others are rather open-minded. I like to think of myself as one of those people, as I try to hear all sides of an argument before judging or coming to a conclusion. However, I know I have my own bigotries as well.

 

When it comes to women's rights being violated, I become quite personally offended. I don't identify as a feminist, as that kinda makes me feel as if I want women to have more power than men, when I really just want us to be equal. But that is one of the things that is really hard for me to see any other side to, as I see any other view as plain wrong.

 

This thread is pretty much a dead end for me. Everyone's going to have their own opinions, and someone else may have a different opinion, and then they're gonna get mad. It is this thread's title in a nutshell.

 

 

That's my two cents, now I'm off to try and find a happier thread.

[Oblivion 20,266]

I don't particularly like this topic, because it is practically a breeding ground for arguments and anger, but I'll reply anyway, I guess.

 

Yes, I think everyone is bigoted in a way, shape or form, but some more than others. I guess that makes me a bigot too because of my opinion on this (#1 reason I don't like this topic).

 

Some people are the type that are going to stubbornly cling to their opinions no matter what. Not that that is necessarily a bad thing, if it wasn't for the fact that some people's opinions are dead wrong (Heard about the 276 schoolgirls kidnapped in Uganda?)

 

Others are rather open-minded. I like to think of myself as one of those people, as I try to hear all sides of an argument before judging or coming to a conclusion. However, I know I have my own bigotries as well.

 

When it comes to women's rights being violated, I become quite personally offended. I don't identify as a feminist, as that kinda makes me feel as if I want women to have more power than men, when I really just want us to be equal. But that is one of the things that is really hard for me to see any other side to, as I see any other view as plain wrong.

 

This thread is pretty much a dead end for me. Everyone's going to have their own opinions, and someone else may have a different opinion, and then they're gonna get mad. It is this thread's title in a nutshell.

 

Eris Shrug.jpg

 

That's my two cents, now I'm off to try and find a happier thread.

Yea, I'm sorry, that was never my intention, and like my grandpa always said, "Opinions are like assholes, everyones got one!"

 

Yea guys really, lets not turn this into a flame war!

[TheSupremeLeaderOfChaos 1,190]

Yea, I'm sorry, that was never my intention, and like my grandpa always said, "Opinions are like assholes, everyones got one!"

Your grandpa was a brilliant man!

Edited May 10, 2014 by TheSupremeLeaderOfChaos

[Arctic Night 884]

Yea, I'm sorry, that was never my intention, and like my grandpa always said, "Opinions are like assholes, everyones got one!"

 

Yea guys really, lets not turn this into a flame war!

I'm sorry. I seem to leave a trail of debate wherever I go.

[Virgil 685]

 

 

Everybody is bigoted towards something, whether it's religion, sexualities, etc.

This actually is a nice summation of an interest quirk about humans, that people seem to be picking up on this topic. Which is this, everyone operates with there own set of "paradigms" about things; which by their very nature cause us to have certain biases which in fact have their own pros and cons. Example: Person A has more of an interest in the humanities and so forth. Person B is much more of an interest in the hard sciences. So if A and B are having a debate; they will each defend their position differently and each will have good points, reflecting their respective disciplines. Likewise if they discuss an issue they agree on. However, A will likely have trouble understanding or seeing the importance of B's points and vice versa, in either the case of something they agree or disagree on. And you've probably seen this play out countless times on this very forum.

Now each in most cases will likely have a perfectly valid approach in most cases, assuming that they are both intellectually honest.

So in my estimation it is not the person who holds a position that they understand everything about their position and it's defense perfectly ( as that is impossible, even if given several lifetimes ), is a bigot or ignorant; but rather the individual who refuses to admit potential weaknesses or things that they have little knowledge of that involve their position that is ignorant, for there's is willful ( which is when I must strive to exhibit patience) .

 

As a personal note: I myself freely admit that as an orthodox ( conservative, traditional, or whatever you might prefer ) Christian, I believe in some rather odd things by most peoples estimation, but I have not arrived at my worldview without intellectual struggle or continue to have questions in certain areas. But for 95% of issues I will argue my points from a secular line of thought. 

[Oblivion 20,266]

This actually is a nice summation of an interest quirk about humans, that people seem to be picking up on this topic. Which is this, everyone operates with there own set of "paradigms" about things; which by their very nature cause us to have certain biases which in fact have their own pros and cons. Example: Person A has more of an interest in the humanities and so forth. Person B is much more of an interest in the hard sciences. So if A and B are having a debate; they will each defend their position differently and each will have good points, reflecting their respective disciplines. Likewise if they discuss an issue they agree on. However, A will likely have trouble understanding or seeing the importance of B's points and vice versa, in either the case of something they agree or disagree on. And you've probably seen this play out countless times on this very forum.

Now each in most cases will likely have a perfectly valid approach in most cases, assuming that they are both intellectually honest.

So in my estimation it is not the person who holds a position that they understand everything about their position and it's defense perfectly ( as that is impossible, even if given several lifetimes ), is a bigot or ignorant; but rather the individual who refuses to admit potential weaknesses or things that they have little knowledge of that involve their position that is ignorant, for there's is willful ( which is when I must strive to exhibit patience) .

 

As a personal note: I myself freely admit that as an orthodox ( conservative, traditional, or whatever you might prefer ) Christian, I believe in some rather odd things by most peoples estimation, but I have not arrived at my worldview without intellectual struggle or continue to have questions in certain areas. But for 95% of issues I will argue my points from a secular line of thought. 

 

Exactly, people tend to frown on views that are not theirs, that is why christians on the internet get so much hate, people just cannot let things go, so they resort to name calling.

[Milky Jade 138]

I never understood what it meant to be to be open- or close-minded.

 

Because if*(edit) openmindedness is tantamount to scepticism, then thank you, but no thank you.

If close-mindedness is anything, then openmindedness is not the solution to it. Being a kilometer wide funnel for bullshit does not solve problems. Choosing to listen to anything while not trying to instantly recognize it as waffle does not solve problems.

 

Similarly, closemindedness is like the position that you have a lease on a specific truth. Whether or not you are right in your position remains to be resolved.

 

I think this entire open/close duality is basically putting tolerance and ignorance in a false dichotomy. So there.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Milky Jade