movies/tv Alduin vs Luna

[Fractured 2,684]

Faster remains to be seen

 

 

He has to recreate the planet afterwards and it's not like he'd pop out of existence if his destiny was completed either

Perhaps you missed that part, i'm pretty sure I stated her speed right after you stated yours...

Even then, she doesn't need to kill, only incapacitate(unconsciousness, essentially.) If he's still alive, she can just mulch whatever's left through telekinetic force.

To get back on topic, since you didn't specify a period of time where Luna would come to Nirn, allow me to propose a scenario: Suppose Luna stole the heart of Lorkhan from the Dwemer and figured out how to use it to make herself into a proper god like Talos did. While this scenario of events is very unlikely, what if it did happen? Would the massive increase in power be enough to let her defeat Alduin?   

Luna really doesn't need it. The only thing Alduin can do in this fight currently is stay alive; he has no means to hurt her or defend himself against her.

 

Because I don't know who this other character is or what IP it's from?

Because people auto assume MLP loses to every other verse. It makes debates so much harder than they need to be.

[Gatekeeper Giggle 2,902]

Are we talking about the heart of Lorkhan? The thing that basically doomed the entirety of the Dwemer population on all of Nirn to sudden and complete disappearance? Wouldn't it affect Luna in a similar manner? As powerful as she is, she is no deity.

Yes, that did happen to them, but that's because they used it wrong. When the Chimer invaded the dwemer working on the heart panicked and made a mistake when using it. If you use it right, like Talos did, it turns you into a god no questions asked.  

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,164]

Yes, that did happen to them, but that's because they used it wrong. When the Chimer invaded the dwemer working on the heart panicked and made a mistake when using it. If you use it right, like Talos did, it turns you into a god no questions asked.  

 

Fair point.

 

If she could harness that power, then Alduin would have a much tougher fighter on his hands and could possibly lose. Again though, considering Alduin's position in lore and his role in prophecy, it'd still be difficult.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Perhaps you missed that part, i'm pretty sure I stated her speed right after you stated yours...

With conjecture. Alduin's speed is also conjecture, all we know is that he can fly around very well

 

 

Even then, she doesn't need to kill, only incapacitate(unconsciousness, essentially.) If he's still alive, she can just mulch whatever's left through telekinetic force.

You underestimate him. He's fully capable of eating a planet with no problems, hell, his true form is a planet

 

 

The only thing Alduin can do in this fight currently is stay alive; he has no means to hurt her or defend himself against her.

He can break her mind with Dismay, freeze her solid with Ice Form, rip out her soul with Soul Rend, make her look like a slug with Slow time, or just set her on fire or freeze her

 

 

Because people auto assume MLP loses to every other verse. It makes debates so much harder than they need to be

And you auto assume that the MLP verse is more powerful than it really is 

[Fractured 2,684]

With conjecture. Alduin's speed is also conjecture, all we know is that he can fly around very well

 

 

You underestimate him. He's fully capable of eating a planet with no problems, hell, his true form is a planet

 

 

He can break her mind with Dismay, freeze her solid with Ice Form, rip out her soul with Soul Rend, make her look like a slug with Slow time, or just set her on fire or freeze her

 

 

And you auto assume that the MLP verse is more powerful than it really is 

She can fly around very well faster.

 

Physics suggests the telekinetic energy required to move a sun sized object is more than enough to crush a planet sized one. It'd be like smashing a egg between two bricks.

 

If he were faster, At the current, he's really too slow to even see her move.

 

If by that you mean I don't dismiss all their feats and just assume they're talking horses, then I suppose that's true. At least one person has to have respect for the verse.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

She can fly around very well faster.

Nothing proves this

 

 

Physics suggests the telekinetic energy required to move a sun sized object is more than enough to crush a planet sized one. It'd be like smashing a egg between two bricks.

Except that Tirek's telekinesis was just barely enough to knock Twilight into a mountain

 

 

If he were faster, At the current, he's really too slow to even see her move.

There's nothing proving this other than applying science to a world where sonic booms contain rainbows!

 

 

If by that you mean I don't dismiss all their feats and just assume they're talking horses, then I suppose that's true. At least one person has to have respect for the verse.

I can respect them but still not stretch them to the very last possible extent of power. The princesses are high street level, Tirek and Twilight are mountain level. They are not the star destroying badasses you think they are 

[Gatekeeper Giggle 2,902]

 

 

Because people auto assume MLP loses to every other verse. It makes debates so much harder than they need to be.

As Discord once said: "That's a bit harsh." While Luna is very powerful, (And I totally think she could smear Slenderman all over the walls, but that's an argument for another time) Alduin is on another realm of strength entirely. The only conceivable way she could win is if she snuck into alduin's dreams and killed him there, but that's assuming that she's even able to do that. Luna's one of my favorite characters, but at her current power level, she's no match for Alduin. But I admire your moxie for fighting the good fight!           

 

 

Physics suggests the telekinetic energy required to move a sun sized object is more than enough to crush a planet sized one. It'd be like smashing a egg between two bricks.

You underestimate Alduin. Remember when Twilight slammed a large rock on top of Tirek, but it barely scratched him? When gods battle Physics goes right out the window.  

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Slenderman

That's not nice to Luna. Slenderman was capable of throwing a human 25 feet with a casual slap and just looking at him screws your mind over. Not to mention that he can apparently reincarnate through his proxies. No, Luna is better suited to beating on Batman's rogue gallery, Attack On Titan characters, the non-Maiar of LOTR, etc. 

[Gatekeeper Giggle 2,902]

That's not nice to Luna. Slenderman was capable of throwing a human 25 feet with a casual slap and just looking at him screws your mind over. Not to mention that he can apparently reincarnate through his proxies.

I'm not arguing this with you in a Alduin vs Luna topic, but let's just say for now that I politely disagree.  

[Soldier Surplus 232]

as others have mentioned, only the Dragonborn can kill Alduin. So poor Luna doesn't have a chance. DOUBLE LIGHTNING HANDS!!

[Fractured 2,684]

Nothing proves this

 

 

Except that Tirek's telekinesis was just barely enough to knock Twilight into a mountain

 

 

There's nothing proving this other than applying science to a world where sonic booms contain rainbows!

 

 

I can respect them but still not stretch them to the very last possible extent of power. The princesses are high street level, Tirek and Twilight are mountain level. They are not the star destroying badasses you think they are 

Except everything you and I said above?

 

Rarity's fabulous. One has nothing to do with the other.

 

Well, I admit i'm using human reactions for that. According to science, humans are unable to recognize the movement of anything moving 600 mph at close distance.

 

Except for, you know, the whole city level barriers and moving celestial bodies around thing.

 

As Discord once said: "That's a bit harsh." While Luna is very powerful, (And I totally think she could smear Slenderman all over the walls, but that's an argument for another time) Alduin is on another realm of strength entirely. The only conceivable way she could win is if she snuck into alduin's dreams and killed him there, but that's assuming that she's even able to do that. Luna's one of my favorite characters, but at her current power level, she's no match for Alduin. But I admire your moxie for fighting the good fight!           

He's outclassed in every stat.

He's barely the speed of sound, she can move the moon in a second, dodge relativistic lasers and fly from the moon to the earth in a small time frame.

He eats planets, she moves stars.

I... Did I really just lock myself in a self-defeating argument?

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Except everything you and I said above?

Creating an entire planet and breathing life into it would take a lot of energy, especially since Alduin is supposed to do the job really quickly

 

 

Well, I admit i'm using human reactions for that. According to science, humans are unable to recognize the movement of anything moving 600 mph at close distance.

Alduinis capable of interdimensional travel and being forcibly sped through time in a prison only pissed him off. I think that he can deal with it just fine

 

 

Except for, you know, the whole city level barriers and moving celestial bodies around thing.

 

Celestial bodies that follow cartoon and mythological tropes, those being that the sun and moon are smaller than the earth because of their relative size to it. And city level barriers mean nothing when it's explicitly stated that only Shining Armor can make the best shields and that Alduin was able to tear through dimensional walls like paper

[Gatekeeper Giggle 2,902]

 

 

I... Did I really just lock myself in a self-defeating argument?

I believe you have, and unless you have any new arguments to bring to the table, I'm calling this checkmate.   

[Fractured 2,684]

Creating an entire planet and breathing life into it would take a lot of energy, especially since Alduin is supposed to do the job really quickly

 

 

Alduinis capable of interdimensional travel and being forcibly sped through time in a prison only pissed him off. I think that he can deal with it just fine

 

 

 

Celestial bodies that follow cartoon and mythological tropes, those being that the sun and moon are smaller than the earth because of their relative size to it. And city level barriers mean nothing when it's explicitly stated that only Shining Armor can make the best shields and that Alduin was able to tear through dimensional walls like paper

Is it sun level?

 

Being speedbltized and turned to paste? Do tell.

 

Word of god states sun is the same size. The earth and moon were shown to be the same size relative to ours.

 

I believe you have, and unless you have any new arguments to bring to the table, I'm calling this checkmate.   

 Checkmate in my favor right?

I mean, unless Alduin has done something really impressive and you forgot to tell me. Or you want to argue that someone can beat someone much stronger and faster than them. In which case, this is Batman vs Superman all over again, isn't it?

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Is it sun level?

Hard to say as no one's ever seen that. It's not relevant due to Luna not being Sun level

 

 

Being speedbltized and turned to paste? Do tell.

Alduin has no organs, the gods in ES are pretty much made of energy. It's not going to do anything unless he's in mortal form. Also, again, Luna being fast is based on applying science

 

 

Word of god states sun is the same size. The earth and moon were shown to be the same size relative to ours

The scale in MLP is all over the place. The 20 karat ruby would fit on your finger, meaning Rarity could fit in the palm of your hand easily. Then there's the argument that they're the size of actual ponies.

 

End point, the writers have no idea on how to write size, because if the ponies were the size of toys, then things become a lot less interesting when you realize that the mountains being destroyed are mole hills.

 

Also, if the Sun was that big, moving it would require having a gigantic planet so it isn't destroyed. Oh, and you'd have to make the ponies robust enough to survive the gravity. Making the sun that big adds so many problems 

[Gatekeeper Giggle 2,902]

Is it sun level?

 

Being speedbltized and turned to paste? Do tell.

 

Word of god states sun is the same size. The earth and moon were shown to be the same size relative to ours.

 

 Checkmate in my favor right?

I mean, unless Alduin has done something really impressive and you forgot to tell me. Or you want to argue that someone can beat someone much stronger and faster than them. In which case, this is Batman vs Superman all over again, isn't it?

 

Don't mess with me, I control your every word! 

 

 

Alduin is pretty much invincible. Even though I agree that Luna is more agile in flight, all that speed goes for naught when none of your blows can even hurt your opponent. The only reason the dragonborn was able to defeat Alduin was because of dragonrend. An ability which Luna does not possess.    

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,164]

Alduin is pretty much invincible. Even though I agree that Luna is more agile in flight, all that speed goes for naught when none of your blows can even hurt your opponent. The only reason the dragonborn was able to defeat Alduin was because of dragonrend. An ability which Luna does not possess.    

 

Add in the fact that he was weakened not only after he was cheated out of victory by the Elder Scrolls in the first, but also after the battle against the Dragonborn & Paarthurnax on the Throat of the World. There is a reason why it is said that only the Dragonborn can kill Alduin.

[Fractured 2,684]

Hard to say as no one's ever seen that. It's not relevant due to Luna not being Sun level

 

 

Alduin has no organs, the gods in ES are pretty much made of energy. It's not going to do anything unless he's in mortal form. Also, again, Luna being fast is based on applying science

 

 

The scale in MLP is all over the place. The 20 karat ruby would fit on your finger, meaning Rarity could fit in the palm of your hand easily. Then there's the argument that they're the size of actual ponies.

 

End point, the writers have no idea on how to write size, because if the ponies were the size of toys, then things become a lot less interesting when you realize that the mountains being destroyed are mole hills.

 

Also, if the Sun was that big, moving it would require having a gigantic planet so it isn't destroyed. Oh, and you'd have to make the ponies robust enough to survive the gravity. Making the sun that big adds so many problems 

She moves the sun in the comics.

 

Need evidence for the energy thing. And since the moon is the same size as ours, there's no problem with using science.

You're...joking, right?

 

The sun is the same size as our sun, and it is controlled and manipulated by the alicorns, around the earth, with no harmful effects. Why debate fiction if you're not ready to accept that these things happen?

Alduin is pretty much invincible. Even though I agree that Luna is more agile in flight, all that speed goes for naught when none of your blows can even hurt your opponent. The only reason the dragonborn was able to defeat Alduin was because of dragonrend. An ability which Luna does not possess.    

Is he completely immune to damage, like say, something crushing him with the force of Saturn exploding won't move him? Again, like every Wolverine fight, unconsciousness is still a loss unless stated otherwise.

[Gatekeeper Giggle 2,902]

 

 

Is he completely immune to damage, like say, something crushing him with the force of Saturn exploding won't move him? Again, like every Wolverine fight, unconsciousness is still a loss unless stated otherwise.

Yep. Without Dragonrend, Luna's toast.  

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

She moves the sun in the comics.

That's not the point. My point is that she may be Equestrian Sun level, but not Terran Sun level

 

 

Need evidence for the energy thing. And since the moon is the same size as ours, there's no problem with using science.

 

That's like saying that since trees in Skyrim are the same size, then the oversized sabertooth cats must be that size too

 

 

You're...joking, right?

Look up how big a 20 karat ruby is

 

 

The sun is the same size as our sun, and it is controlled and manipulated by the alicorns, around the earth, with no harmful effects. Why debate fiction if you're not ready to accept that these things happen?

I can debate fiction, but with that statement, it throws in so many ludicrous factors. I already listed some of them, others would include stuff like constant flooding and tidal changes from the Sun jerking around all over the place, sharp temperature changes due to how fast its moving, and Equestria's axis being tilted randomly with no seasonal stability.

 

There's no reason to have Equestria's Sun be that big other than the writer's word. For this idea to work, you must have some sort of planet wide shield or physics just outright don't work the same way. First one doesn't fit since Shining Armor's best shield was the size of a city, second makes your argument fall apart like a jenga tower. Are the writers going to say that Equestria is the size of a star now? That there are giant ocean shields? That there is an earth alicorn keeping it stabilized? 

[Fractured 2,684]

Yep. Without Dragonrend, Luna's toast.  

I looked it up...

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dragonrend

And it doesn't do any of the things anybody says it does.

 

That's not the point. My point is that she may be Equestrian Sun level, but not Terran Sun level

 

 

 

That's like saying that since trees in Skyrim are the same size, then the oversized sabertooth cats must be that size too

 

 

Look up how big a 20 karat ruby is

 

 

I can debate fiction, but with that statement, it throws in so many ludicrous factors. I already listed some of them, others would include stuff like constant flooding and tidal changes from the Sun jerking around all over the place, sharp temperature changes due to how fast its moving, and Equestria's axis being tilted randomly with no seasonal stability.

 

There's no reason to have Equestria's Sun be that big other than the writer's word. For this idea to work, you must have some sort of planet wide shield or physics just outright don't work the same way. First one doesn't fit since Shining Armor's best shield was the size of a city, second makes your argument fall apart like a jenga tower. Are the writers going to say that Equestria is the size of a star now? That there are giant ocean shields? That there is an earth alicorn keeping it stabilized? 

Is that your opinion? Because literally everything else says otherwise.

 

No, no it's not at all. Tell me, do Superman arguments with you stop when you flip conniptions a the fact that Superman uses energy from the sun to shoot lasers that are hotter than its core? How about Flash because he's faster than light. Or that it's possible for human sized characters to move planets in DC?

 

...For your sake, i'm going to ignore that argument.

 

Sometimes, fiction just is. I don't know how else to tell you that.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

No, no it's not at all. Tell me, do Superman arguments with you stop when you flip conniptions a the fact that Superman uses energy from the sun to shoot lasers that are hotter than its core? How about Flash because he's faster than light. Or that it's possible for human sized characters to move planets in DC?

That's not the same thing. The same thing would be something like how in Battle Force 5(an obscure show), a single speck of anti-matter in a shadow verse can cause the collapse of the entire multiverse. In this case, the multiverse has to be smaller for this to work.

 

Again, the writers haven't thought about any science here, if they did, then it makes no sense of Nightmare Moon to not even be able to break down a rock entirely 

[Gatekeeper Giggle 2,902]

 

 

I looked it up... http://elderscrolls....wiki/Dragonrend And it doesn't do any of the things anybody says it does.

In the actual game itself or in the lore? In the lore, Alduin was utterly invincible until he was hit with dragonrend. since we're bringing the wiki into this, allow me to quote from it: "It is said that only a Dovahkiin can defeat the enraged god Alduin by harnessing the power of the dragon in the form of dragon shouts to ultimately destroy him in one final battle of titanic proportions, restoring peace to the land of Skyrim and Tamriel at large." The specific shout they are referring to is of course dragonrend. In the game, It just makes dragons land on the ground, so I can see why you would be confused.      

[Fractured 2,684]

That's not the same thing. The same thing would be something like how in Battle Force 5(an obscure show), a single speck of anti-matter in a shadow verse can cause the collapse of the entire multiverse. In this case, the multiverse has to be smaller for this to work.

 

Again, the writers haven't thought about any science here, if they did, then it makes no sense of Nightmare Moon to not even be able to break down a rock entirely 

Which is why we take what happened above all else. The writers can say whatever they want, but if it clearly contradicts what happened in verse, they're wrong. Luna moves the sun- for all intents and purposes, she's sun level.

 

In the actual game itself or in the lore? In the lore, Alduin was utterly invincible until he was hit with dragonrend. since we're bringing the wiki into this, allow me to quote from it: "It is said that only a Dovahkiin can defeat the enraged god Alduin by harnessing the power of the dragon in the form of dragon shouts to ultimately destroy him in one final battle of titanic proportions, restoring peace to the land of Skyrim and Tamriel at large." The specific shout they are referring to is of course dragonrend. In the game, It just makes dragons land on the ground, so I can see why you would be confused.      

Isn't lore Alduin universal?

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Which is why we take what happened above all else. The writers can say whatever they want, but if it clearly contradicts what happened in verse, they're wrong. Luna moves the sun- for all intents and purposes, she's sun level

If you want to pack that, fine, but her destructive force is so much less than that. Chrysalis's laser hit only an inch away from Celestia's gold crown, and didn't even scratch it. Nightmare Moon's lasers struggled to destroy buildings. Twilight felt the need to shield herself from getting slammed into a mountain