Something I really want to see in the distant future...

[Ganondox 899]

1 hour ago, Sun Ray said:

Ohhhhhhhh. I gettcha. I missed something...darn

Yeah, by mature I mean more complex, not like crude jokes. Sorry for any confusion. 

[Steve Piranha 29,432]

I'd prefer a spinoff over a reboot. Same world, but at a different time (likely in the future), new setting and mostly new characters

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

14 hours ago, Ganondox said:

Being a kids show, everything is pretty straightforward. I didn’t say it was confusing, I said it’s a mess. The problem isn’t that things are left unexplained, it’s that there is nothing to be explained. The lore is completely ad-hoc, being constructed not to fill in holes, but to provide branches to new ideas, often forgetting about central cohesion. It can be assembled into something semi-coherent if you make an effort, just like the Zelda timeline, but it’s obvious either case is forced and had next to no factor in the creative process. 

Yes, it’s a completely different show to some degree, but making be about something different completely defeats the purpose of it. The purpose is refine the lore of Equestria and give new purpose to beloved characters, not to be another random fantasy series, or to be a random adventure in an already broken world. It doesn’t mean FiM needs to die, any more than the existence of the show means the comics must end or visa versa. It’s just exploiting the softness of the franchise canon to let something crystallized form in it’s nurturing solution, free from the usual influences that lead to mythos entropy. It want to see this because I love the show, and want to see what could have been done with it if they took another path because it has so much potential. Aside from the nessecary resource investment required to produce such a series and the related opportunity cost, I think it’s completely harmless.

Well, the only way I could really see a show like this happening is later down the road after FIM is long over. Having it made now while FIM is still going might end up being weird, as while I called it a different show...It's also still the same show in a lot of ways. Using the same major characters, set in a very similar world, likely using a lot of the same story elements. It'd be a little strange to have two versions of the same thing coming out and producing new episodes at the same time. Maybe it'd work better if this Adventure focused Alternate Universe story was produced in a different medium, like the comics or something.

 I guess I also just don't see what's so "Broken" about the current MLP's world that couldn't really be fixed? I don't see at all how a spin-off that goes more in-depth with the current series lore couldn't potentially fix a lot of the issues you have with it, without having to toss a bunch of stuff out. Anyway, your idea is fine, and if it did come out alongside FIM without interrupting the main show, or if it came out long after FIM's end where there's no chance of it getting any more episodes or movies of it's own, it would indeed be harmless. I just don't see myself caring very much about a reboot that changes the focus of the show and retells me a different version of FIM's story like this. It's a fun idea for a fanfic, just not an official thing to me.

[Ganondox 899]

5 hours ago, BasementSparkle said:

Well, the only way I could really see a show like this happening is later down the road after FIM is long over. Having it made now while FIM is still going might end up being weird, as while I called it a different show...It's also still the same show in a lot of ways. Using the same major characters, set in a very similar world, likely using a lot of the same story elements. It'd be a little strange to have two versions of the same thing coming out and producing new episodes at the same time. Maybe it'd work better if this Adventure focused Alternate Universe story was produced in a different medium, like the comics or something.

 I guess I also just don't see what's so "Broken" about the current MLP's world that couldn't really be fixed? I don't see at all how a spin-off that goes more in-depth with the current series lore couldn't potentially fix a lot of the issues you have with it, without having to toss a bunch of stuff out. Anyway, your idea is fine, and if it did come out alongside FIM without interrupting the main show, or if it came out long after FIM's end where there's no chance of it getting any more episodes or movies of it's own, it would indeed be harmless. I just don't see myself caring very much about a reboot that changes the focus of the show and retells me a different version of FIM's story like this. It's a fun idea for a fanfic, just not an official thing to me.

Ideally this would happen after the original series concludes, I just have no idea how long FiM will run. 

You can always make some convoluted explanation to try to smooth out what exists, and that’s the messing solution. The clean solution is to back the groundwork and never dig yourself into a hole in the first place. It’s more painful, because people don’t like losing things, but from a writing perspective it is the much better solution. Better to go back to the simple days when there was only two alicorn princesses than devising a complex alicorn system with countless footnotes that just gets another wrench thrown into it when Hasbro demands another toy. 

[Steve Piranha 29,432]

28 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

Ideally this would happen after the original series concludes, I just have no idea how long FiM will run. 

You can always make some convoluted explanation to try to smooth out what exists, and that’s the messing solution. The clean solution is to back the groundwork and never dig yourself into a hole in the first place. It’s more painful, because people don’t like losing things, but from a writing perspective it is the much better solution. Better to go back to the simple days when there was only two alicorn princesses than devising a complex alicorn system with countless footnotes that just gets another wrench thrown into it when Hasbro demands another toy. 

Not necessarily. It may help on occasion knowing how the pony lore has grown, but it's not completely mandatory to at least understand your average slice of life episode. Same thing can happen in a spinoff, set in the same world, there are five alicorns and stuff, the Mane6 saved the world many times, but such things stabilized hardly have a direct influence on the core setting

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

2 hours ago, Ganondox said:

Ideally this would happen after the original series concludes, I just have no idea how long FiM will run. 

You can always make some convoluted explanation to try to smooth out what exists, and that’s the messing solution. The clean solution is to back the groundwork and never dig yourself into a hole in the first place. It’s more painful, because people don’t like losing things, but from a writing perspective it is the much better solution. Better to go back to the simple days when there was only two alicorn princesses than devising a complex alicorn system with countless footnotes that just gets another wrench thrown into it when Hasbro demands another toy. 

I can't at all agree in this case that rebooting the show would be preferable to what we have now. I could see how that might be better in cases where a story has gone way, way out of hand, but I don't at all think MLP is in any state like that, or even in a bad state at all, and I think losing so much would heavily outweigh any positives for me. I'll stand by what I said earlier, the show you want is a totally different one that just uses the same characters and world. That's fine, nothing wrong with it, but I likely won't ever agree to a reboot like this being better.  If what you want ever happens, I hope you enjoy it, and I'll totally try it, but I won't be surprise if I turn into some old FIM brony talking about "Back in my day..."

[Ganondox 899]

7 hours ago, Steve Piranha said:

Not necessarily. It may help on occasion knowing how the pony lore has grown, but it's not completely mandatory to at least understand your average slice of life episode. Same thing can happen in a spinoff, set in the same world, there are five alicorns and stuff, the Mane6 saved the world many times, but such things stabilized hardly have a direct influence on the core setting

I don’t see what you’re getting at. From any sort of writing perspective, it’s best to go back to the basics when things get too complicated instead of just trying to tack on more patches, doesn’t matter if you’re doing adventure or  Slice of Life or whatever else. And I completely understand that a well-structured is not important for the series as it is now, but that’s not what this idea is about. 

5 hours ago, BasementSparkle said:

I can't at all agree in this case that rebooting the show would be preferable to what we have now. I could see how that might be better in cases where a story has gone way, way out of hand, but I don't at all think MLP is in any state like that, or even in a bad state at all, and I think losing so much would heavily outweigh any positives for me. I'll stand by what I said earlier, the show you want is a totally different one that just uses the same characters and world. That's fine, nothing wrong with it, but I likely won't ever agree to a reboot like this being better.  If what you want ever happens, I hope you enjoy it, and I'll totally try it, but I won't be surprise if I turn into some old FIM brony talking about "Back in my day..."

And I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, you don’t have to loose ANYTHING. In theory, the reboot could be identical to the original. You wouldn’t do that though, because you’re going to try to make it BETTER. The question isn’t if pony did things bad or not, but if it could have been done better, or if not better, then differently in such a way that it would have qualitavely different but still valuable nature. Fact of the matter is that even though they did their best to retroactively patch the series, it has plenty of bad moments in terms of writing. For example, A Canterlot Wedding. Now, you don’t even have to get rid of the wedding, would you agree it would have been better if they at least established that Twilight had a brother and that a third alicorn exists before the episode? That’s the idea. And if you don’t like the new direction, you can just ignore it. The old series would still exist, and it would be just as valid as anything else. That’s one of the nice things about having a soft canon. 

Also, never claimed that this idea would be better than the show we have now, just that pulling back is a better approach to writing than tacking on new ideas (in practice you’d tend to do this BEFORE you publish, so it wouldn’t be making a reboot, but that’s not the way an unbounded series works). This show is supposed to be better from a central coherence standpoint, but it would definitely have disadvantages from the current format in other areas. 

Edited October 29, 2017 by Ganondox

[Steve Piranha 29,432]

46 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

I don’t see what you’re getting at. From any sort of writing perspective, it’s best to go back to the basics when things get too complicated instead of just trying to tack on more patches, doesn’t matter if you’re doing adventure or  Slice of Life or whatever else. And I completely understand that a well-structured is not important for the series as it is now, but that’s not what this idea is about. 

And I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, you don’t have to loose ANYTHING. In theory, the reboot could be identical to the original. You wouldn’t do that though, because you’re going to try to make it BETTER. The question isn’t if pony did things bad or not, but if it could have been done better, or if not better, then differently in such a way that it would have qualitavely different but still valuable nature. Fact of the matter is that even though they did their best to retroactively patch the series, it has plenty of bad moments in terms of writing. For example, A Canterlot Wedding. Now, you don’t even have to get rid of the wedding, would you agree it would have been better if they at least established that Twilight had a brother and that a third alicorn exists before the episode? That’s the idea. And if you don’t like the new direction, you can just ignore it. The old series would still exist, and it would be just as valid as anything else. That’s one of the nice things about having a soft canon. 

Also, never claimed that this idea would be better than the show we have now, just that pulling back is a better approach to writing than tacking on new ideas (in practice you’d tend to do this BEFORE you publish, so it wouldn’t be making a reboot, but that’s not the way an unbounded series works). This show is supposed to be better from a central coherence standpoint, but it would definitely have disadvantages from the current format in other areas. 

Nah, I'm against the idea of retelling the whole show again. It won't work. Way better to make a whole new show from scratch. But I'd still rather have a spinoff show. You want a couple of examples? Rugrats and All Grown Up. Same characters, but ten years in the future. OR, a show within the same world, but mostly a new setting and characters. Want an example of the latter type of spinoff? Remember Totally Spies!? It had a spinoff with new protagonists and the same old Jerry as a regular character in  The Amazing Spiez! (yes, with a "Z"  ). I think FiM's spinoff could work like that: new characters, and an old acting as a mentor or guide (I vote for Starlight), and have occasional appearances of the old Mane6

[Ganondox 899]

55 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

Nah, I'm against the idea of retelling the whole show again. It won't work. Way better to make a whole new show from scratch. But I'd still rather have a spinoff show. You want a couple of examples? Rugrats and All Grown Up. Same characters, but ten years in the future. OR, a show within the same world, but mostly a new setting and characters. Want an example of the latter type of spinoff? Remember Totally Spies!? It had a spinoff with new protagonists and the same old Jerry as a regular character in  The Amazing Spiez! (yes, with a "Z"  ). I think FiM's spinoff could work like that: new characters, and an old acting as a mentor or guide (I vote for Starlight), and have occasional appearances of the old Mane6

I don’t think it would be best to retell the whole show either, just that you could do it. You say it won’t work, but it certainly could, and you don’t know if it will until you try. Anyway, only parts of it would really be worth keeping and fleshing out more. 

Rugrats has a completely different type of setting than MLP, the comparison is nonsensical. The point is Equestria is it’s own world that could be better served. A spin-off won’t be satisfactory because it would still require forced acceptance of elements of canon which were poorly handled and exist just to sell toys. It would just be pointless adventures because they aren’t building to anything as the main show’s purpose isn’t to build to anything. It’s just like the comics, they could be independent to the show, but instead they are slave to it, and as such their attempts at greater continuity always fail because the show makes no effort to respect it. The core idea of this plan is NOTHING is set in stone, it’s all imaginary and anything goes, and by freeing the writing from the idea of a canon which already violates principles of cohesion, it’s possible to create a new canon which actually follows them. Frankly I don’t if you think a spin-off would be better, as it defeats the entire purpose of the reboot. It’s not to do adventure episodes, it’s to take the original premise into a more focused direction. 

Edited October 29, 2017 by Ganondox

[Ganondox 899]

Just watched Hanazuki's first season. THAT'S the sort of show I'd like this reboot to be. Some Slice of Life spread in, but with an overarching plot, and a very well developed original world. Only thing is I want it to be aimed at a slightly more mature audience, Twisted Unicorn starts to loose his intimidation once you realize he can't actually do any permanent damage with her his horn. If there is no risk of failure, than success is meaningless. 

[Steve Piranha 29,432]

5 hours ago, Ganondox said:

Just watched Hanazuki's first season. THAT'S the sort of show I'd like this reboot to be. Some Slice of Life spread in, but with an overarching plot, and a very well developed original world. Only thing is I want it to be aimed at a slightly more mature audience, Twisted Unicorn starts to loose his intimidation once you realize he can't actually do any permanent damage with her his horn. If there is no risk of failure, than success is meaningless. 

Maybe that's one of the reasons I became so enamored with the movie, because the bad guys weren't afraid to resort to that. Sure, ponies didn't get any permanent damage, but the intention was here, and clear as day, even to lethal levels. It'd be hard to get to that in-show, specially after seven years, but if a spinoff focus get the stakes higher, maybe we'll see more of those.

PD: I don't think a reboot it's possible unless they change of generation, and I don't think we'll see that in less than a half decade

[Ganondox 899]

On 11/14/2017 at 9:46 AM, Steve Piranha said:

Maybe that's one of the reasons I became so enamored with the movie, because the bad guys weren't afraid to resort to that. Sure, ponies didn't get any permanent damage, but the intention was here, and clear as day, even to lethal levels. It'd be hard to get to that in-show, specially after seven years, but if a spinoff focus get the stakes higher, maybe we'll see more of those.

PD: I don't think a reboot it's possible unless they change of generation, and I don't think we'll see that in less than a half decade

Apparently generation is going to change much sooner than that...