Guest February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 Alright, I'll start by saying let's be mature about this and keep the "PC Master Race" Stuff out of here even if it is a joke. It's a serious discussion and we want people to look at it seriously and objectively. Now that has been said let's move on. I've been a PC gamer for a long time, and in the past year or so I sort of fell off of the bandwagon due to not having funds to upgrade for so long (still rocking that GTX 560 Ti) but I have to say... PC gaming has changed a bit from five years ago. When I got my card even as a low level or even mid range card I was playing the highest end games at max settings for many years to come, that time has sort of changed now. The market at the moment is sort of trash. Unless you are only into indie titles and don't like playing the latest AAA titles when they come out, currently PC gaming is the worst option for you unless you have deep pockets. Now I am not bashing PC, and I recognize these problems are not the result of the platform itself and they may be temporary problems, but let's try and be objective here and admit that PC gaming right now is at its worst time. The market is shot currently: RAM prices are just finally stabilizing and falling after a good year or so of being high priced. The cryptocurrency mining craze has show graphics card prices up sky high. The GTX 1070 at the time of writing this is ranging between $800-1500 on some sites! This card launched for $379. This price hyke has been going on for well over a year now. Game developers are racing to the newest tech way too early. Many cames launching in 2017 and early 2018 are actually more or less requiring current gen cards to even get a moderate gaming experience. Final Fantasy XV is one of the price examples, now ignoring its misleading benchmarks due to HairWorks, the game still basically requires a GTX 1070 or higher to get 1080p60FPS, more if you want to get that 4K30FPS experience. If you were to build a new PC to play FFXV this year you'd be looking at a GTX 1070 or higher which will run you like $800+ on its own. If you wanted to be future proof for when next year rolls around and they have a game that requires higher to max out then you are looking at the 1080 or even the 1080 Ti which will put you out even more. This is becoming a common problem with PC gaming, games more commonly are requiring more and more recent parts. Go back to 2004: Half-Life 2 comes out and the system requirements could run on devices from like... 2001 with ease. Now we've entered an age where if you're 3 years old you need to upgrade unless you were on the top of the line hardware from back then. Look I love PC gaming, but we need to really stop this mantra of it being "cheaper" especially right now. Right now if you want a similar or better experience than the PS4 Pro for Final Fantasy XV you would need to pay well over twice if not 3 times what the PS4 Pro AND the game cost. Now these are temporary problems, full disclosure. The GPU market can normalize again and developers can get their heads out of their asses and stop making games to only run on GPUs from the previous year, but currently we have no idea when that'll happen. PC gaming is great, but right now it's the worst time to get into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simcity11100 772 February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 (edited) I agree, it's a pretty bad time to be upgrading or getting into pc gaming. My guess is that this will go on for another 9-18 months about because as long as there are miners still trying to buy cards then the stores whether online or not will keep the inflated prices up. We'll just have to wait and see what will happen and whether this will actually have a negative or positive effect in the long run. Edited February 4, 2018 by Simcity11100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiLLiE.247 55 February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 I agree, it really does look bleak if you're outside the range of purchasing only the smaller indie games and wish to play more of the high-priced extremes such as just about any triple-A title. But I have some hopes in humanity when it comes to this sort of thing when I see actual businesses begin to see the worst in it and profit. This in turn churns our desire to change things ourselves and put an end to such undesirably horrid natures. Sure some companies such as Micro Center allowing to sell their gcards at cost when you buy the necessaries in building a proper gaming PC than to use it for monetary gain such as the whole bitcoin fiasco can be seen as a ploy to ring in more customers and sell, sell, sell and that even game publishers such as EA may never really listen when it comes to.. well, gamer opinions (if anything they have done in recent years show anything about what they really care about have any ground whatsoever) but it's enough to get us PC gamers more and more into it by standing up for what we think is wrong with using those graphic cards for bitcoin mining and gaming companies who wish to do anything but please anypony but themselves. In my opinion it might not be that bad of a time to be a PC gamer. Sure it's pretty horrible to pay and play as one but we're all slowly starting to get upset with companies and their hiked prices and practices and how that will affect about everything else it is not. From hardware to software we're all in this circle of pain and yet.. balance. And slowly we're starting to rally more together. Better than ever. Sure things are at a snail's pace if not stalled at all but think of it this way when it comes to where we stand in terms of technology and ingenuity, especially when it comes to the PC, we've all been there before and we can take other things such as the consoles to example it by. The consoles too had their pretty bad years to the point they could nearly crawl out of it. But they bounced back and there are just too many people engaged in personal computers in comparison and the life it gives to truly let it even come to that different of a pace, certainly never letting it die. Anyway.. I know I sound like I'm just trying to medicate the situation than actually dive in and discuss about things I am honestly very vague in knowledge about as a whole but the moral of it is that it's been said it's always darkest before the dawn. As for everything else, I have been thinking more about the whole situation. Done some research (albeit not enough), had some talks, and flat out gave what I could in terms of how I can actually help. For the problems at hand for us as PC gamers.. it really is a matter of time before some of the things we hold dear in our own practices start to bounce back to normal. I would like to think that the bitcoin situation would turn around in time for the worse in those few that it would technically affect. And games that are too advanced for just about anyone to use right away has never been a good thing but I can't see developers choosing to look in the opposite direction when our rants and negative responses to their games start slowly affecting their bank accounts. It is honestly how you look at it in short. We've got a bumpy road ahead but I wouldn't mind talking more about it to get others on board that boat of change. .. If this sounds like way too much of empty filler than cream of the crop then let me know. I kinda get a little carried away sometimes XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megas 27,563 February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 (edited) Had a ton of people telling me this at work, since i’ve been considering going PC for a while, but the current crypto currency craze has seriously inflated prices for graphics cards, making it really difficult to make the jump. Graphics card companies really need to step in and address the issues because the fact that graphics cards are selling 5x the MSRP is insane, and will lose them tons of customers Edited February 4, 2018 by Whompy Whomperson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarWave 106 February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 It's pretty tame right now. You can play a lot of games on minimals, and they still look rather good, unless they are a cantsole port. You should've seen the leaps tech was moving in late 90s/early00's. Card you bought a year ago might not play anything that came out this year at all, and they didn't exactly cost nothing back then. I have 750 (first cheap one with shadowplay) right now, and it's not exactly bottlenecking anything if you keep your settings low. My CPU might be as it's an antique, and it's OCd to the point that even a small bump makes the whole system unstable, and that's what needs an upgrade. The reason why getting into gaming as a newbie in general doesn't make sense are those sharks in Tripping Aye industry that fleece the sheep of all their cash. Some MTs can cost more than those fancy cards anyway. ,# <- click the tip of the banana to add me on steam! \ `-._____,-'=/ ____`._ ----- _,'_____ My sig seem to be too good for Poniverse, so here's a banana `-----' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 Just now, LunarWave said: It's pretty tame right now. You can play a lot of games on minimals, and they still look rather good, unless they are a cantsole port. Except here's the thing, why would people want to pay the same price or possibly more to play games on minimal settings? If you are going to pay the money you want to have a comparable or better experience than the PS4/X1. Just now, LunarWave said: You should've seen the leaps tech was moving in late 90s/early00's. Card you bought a year ago might not play anything that came out this year at all, and they didn't exactly cost nothing back then. I was there. Yes, the market stablized after that though. 2001-2011ish was a golden age for PC gaming, where requirements remained fairly low. Just now, LunarWave said: I have 750 (first cheap one with shadowplay) right now, and it's not exactly bottlenecking anything if you keep your settings low. But that's the thing. If I want to play say... Doom 2016... I could get that on the PS4 and it looks medium-medium high settings. Why would I want to pay the same price or more to play it on low? 1 minute ago, LunarWave said: The reason why getting into gaming as a newbie in general doesn't make sense are those sharks in Tripping Aye industry that fleece the sheep of all their cash. Some MTs can cost more than those fancy cards anyway. Definitely! First time gamers should NOT be dumping a lot into PC. Make sure you actually like gaming before making the jump and anyone making the switch from console to PC... Either be ready to pay a lot or wait for the market to stabilize. I think a drop in prices is coming because outrage is happening so it will pressure devs and card manufacturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarWave 106 February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 If you just want to play with maximum (relative, because of forced firmware upgrades, crappy infrastructure and extortionate online play fee)convenienence, sure, cantsoles might be a better choice. You want Steam sales and freedom - drop'em like a sack of dirt. ,# <- click the tip of the banana to add me on steam! \ `-._____,-'=/ ____`._ ----- _,'_____ My sig seem to be too good for Poniverse, so here's a banana `-----' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here No Longer 5,276 February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 PC is still in a better state of affairs than consoles in general. Consoles have been basically garbage for a long time now (with a few exceptions). Though nonetheless, it isn't a good time to get into it really. Though you could just buy a laptop and all of these problems would come to pass. There's literally a laptop that can stream 1080P on absurdly demanding games available for only $1100. Aside from that, it's absurdly costly to get into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kaeya Simp 13,988 February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 I've actually been concidering moving to the PC gaming scene because console gaming is getting overpriced. TBH I'm trying to way the positives and negatives of both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Sherbert Music-Guard said: I've actually been concidering moving to the PC gaming scene because console gaming is getting overpriced. TBH I'm trying to way the positives and negatives of both Full disclosure: if you want the best graphics, most freedom and most options PC is the way to go. But at this current time of writing... Get ready to pay for it. That isn't to say it won't go down again, but if you want to get into PC and you are on a budget... I say wait until later in 2018 to see how the prices look. Also goes without saying but if you want portable, you may as well just get the Switch because you are not going to find a portable PC as capable for nearly the same price at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarWave 106 February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 GPD Win 2 is pretty close though. ,# <- click the tip of the banana to add me on steam! \ `-._____,-'=/ ____`._ ----- _,'_____ My sig seem to be too good for Poniverse, so here's a banana `-----' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kaeya Simp 13,988 February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 Just now, LunarWave said: GPD Win 2 is pretty close though. Yeah... The GPD Win (2) might be a decent option for me... I've heard it's to cost like 700$ (1000£) which is a decent price for PC Gaming because I've looked at the components and added them on a spreadsheet and I've seen numbers of 10k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarWave 106 February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Sherbert Music-Guard said: Yeah... The GPD Win (2) might be a decent option for me... I've heard it's to cost like 700$ (1000£) which is a decent price for PC Gaming because I've looked at the components and added them on a spreadsheet and I've seen numbers of 10k It's not actually that impressive, but with 8 gigs of RAM, good CPU and active cooling, it can pack some punch. And another point for PCs is that you can stream your desktop PC games to other devices, and use things and accessories you want. Right now, I'm typing this on my Windows tablet with a mechanical keyboard I jacked from my normal PC. And if I want, I can plug in USB hub, get a mouse and a gamepad and stream some games from PC while being in my bed, sipping cocos, and not tied with any wires whatsoever. Heck, I could go have a bath and play some Portal with a gamepad without risking electrocution or severe damage to my stuff Actually, that sounds like a really splendid idea, I'm gonna start fillinh my bath right now. Edited February 4, 2018 by LunarWave ,# <- click the tip of the banana to add me on steam! \ `-._____,-'=/ ____`._ ----- _,'_____ My sig seem to be too good for Poniverse, so here's a banana `-----' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 10 minutes ago, LunarWave said: GPD Win 2 is pretty close though. I have the GPD Win 1 and I can honestly say... The 2 is a joke. Yes it's nicer and can play slightly better games... But the price is ridiculous. At that price the Switch is EASILY a far better value. Also good news everyone... Microsoft continues to be scummy! Microsoft windows SKUS for 2018 are being revealed and guess what? Remember when we were told we never had to buy another version of Windows after Windows 10? Yeah, Microsoft is going the way of Apple and now will be charging us for service upgrades according to the info. Furthermore new versions of Windows 10 will require you to buy higher end versions to use higher end hardware. This will effectively inflate the prices of PCs and laptops even more. Read more here: https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/151578/new-windows-10-consumer-sku-roadmap-revealed In other words... PC gaming just got shittier thanks to Microsoft. Part of why I REALLY REALLY want the Linux revolution to happen. Microsoft is effectively ruining owning a PC almost every year it seems. 4 minutes ago, LunarWave said: Right now, I'm typing this on my Windows tablet with a mechanical keyboard I jacked from my normal PC. And if I want, I can plug in USB hub, get a mouse and a gamepad and stream some games from PC while being in my bed, sipping cocos, and not tied with any wires whatsoever. Heck, I could go have a bath and play some Portal with a gamepad without risking electrocution or severe damage to my stuff. I can literally play a full fledged game on my Nintendo Switch. It's a lot less hassle for many people and far cheaper. It doesn't require owning the gaming PC to stream from or a good router either. You have to consider that there are costs to these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiLLiE.247 55 February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Key Sharkz said: I have the GPD Win 1 and I can honestly say... The 2 is a joke. Yes it's nicer and can play slightly better games... But the price is ridiculous. At that price the Switch is EASILY a far better value. Also good news everyone... Microsoft continues to be scummy! Microsoft windows SKUS for 2018 are being revealed and guess what? Remember when we were told we never had to buy another version of Windows after Windows 10? Yeah, Microsoft is going the way of Apple and now will be charging us for service upgrades according to the info. Furthermore new versions of Windows 10 will require you to buy higher end versions to use higher end hardware. This will effectively inflate the prices of PCs and laptops even more. Read more here: https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/151578/new-windows-10-consumer-sku-roadmap-revealed In other words... PC gaming just got shittier thanks to Microsoft. Part of why I REALLY REALLY want the Linux revolution to happen. Microsoft is effectively ruining owning a PC almost every year it seems. I can literally play a full fledged game on my Nintendo Switch. It's a lot less hassle for many people and far cheaper. It doesn't require owning the gaming PC to stream from or a good router either. You have to consider that there are costs to these things. Would it be disappointingly natural to say that even what all I said just made little to no effort in protecting me from that in any positive fashion? TO THE DEPTHS WITH MICROSOFT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, WiLLiE.247 said: Would it be disappointingly natural to say that even what all I said just made little to no effort in protecting me from that in any positive fashion? TO THE DEPTHS WITH MICROSOFT! Microsoft clearly is upset over lost profits for the Xbox which is not selling as well as they'd hope so now they are trying to make that money back on their windows customers. Linux can't take over fast enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarWave 106 February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 Yeah, there are costs, sure. Though, switch still costs more, and that's without the games even. I already have a big Steam library that I won't lose if I move to a different PC, or (at least partially)even if I move to Linux. ,# <- click the tip of the banana to add me on steam! \ `-._____,-'=/ ____`._ ----- _,'_____ My sig seem to be too good for Poniverse, so here's a banana `-----' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 Just now, LunarWave said: Yeah, there are costs, sure. Though, switch still costs more, and that's without the games even. How do you figure that? The Switch costs $300 and maybe another $60 with the SD card and a screen protector... Please show me the math on how you got the Switch costs more than your solution which requires owning a windows tablet, and a gaming PC to stream from... How did you manage to get both of those things for under $400 total? Like you're talking from a perspective of someone who already is invested in the platform, we're talking someone who is not. Someone who is not a PC gamer yet won't have a Steam library or a PC to stream from already. If we are talking someone not invested yet... They are going to be paying a lot more than what the Switch would run them for that portable experience. Also the Switch can be brought with them outside their home too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarWave 106 February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 (edited) My tablet is like $150-200 (or evne less at his point) Desktop PC, maybe around $300, if you exclude the luxiries like dual monitors, mechanical keyboard, SSD, and such. Those aren't prices of new hardware, of course, you can't even get some of it new anymore. Also, from what I read, prices for lower-end hardware Windows wil lbe cheaper, higher-end, a bit like it used to. Nothing to panic over. Edited February 4, 2018 by LunarWave ,# <- click the tip of the banana to add me on steam! \ `-._____,-'=/ ____`._ ----- _,'_____ My sig seem to be too good for Poniverse, so here's a banana `-----' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, LunarWave said: My tablet is like $150-200 (or evne less at his point) Desktop PC, maybe around $300, if you exclude the luxiries like dual monitors, mechanical keyboard, SSD, and such. Those aren't prices of new hardware, of course, you can't even get some of it new anymore. So your idea of a "cheaper" machine to get that experience than the Nintendo switch... Is a setup using older and thus less reliable hardware most of which you might have to buy second hand and thus get no warranties or even 100% certainties that it would work for very long to play games on very low settings and be unable to play most new games....? How exactly is that a better value than the Switch exactly? The Switch is getting AAA titles from current gen that won't run on a set up like you're describing. Basically you're using the argument "PC gaming is cheaper... So long as you don't want to play new games, play on decent settings, have warranties, not have to buy products second hand and are willing to deal with a more convoluted setup"? Like how is that a "better" experience if to get the price down you basically have to remove everything that makes the experience better? Sounds a bit contradictory if in order to enjoy the "cheaper price" I have to not have the "best experience" to do so... 10 minutes ago, LunarWave said: Also, from what I read, prices for lower-end hardware Windows wil lbe cheaper, higher-end, a bit like it used to. Nothing to panic over. Except we will be paying for this upgrade according to the site. Meaning in a world where Apple gives away their OS upgrades for free now... Microsoft is still charging us. All of Microsoft's competitors are doing it for free now. Edited February 4, 2018 by Guest added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarWave 106 February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 PC gaming is cheaper in any case, because you don't overpay for games and get to keep them when the platform inevitably keels over. My setup is old, and probably far from optimal, it's just a sample of how cheaply you can do it and how long it lasts. I made it almost 6 years ago now, added a new card 3 yrs ago, and I can easily see people spending on game markup than I spent on my whole setup. If I create a new PC now, with a budget of $400, it will play everything released recently on high settings, while I won't lose any games I got before, to the point where I can play 2001 games if I so desire, and I get to keep my old PC as a hardware for home server. Similar situation with consoles usually either forces you to keep it to play older stuff, or forces you to scrap it entirely. ,# <- click the tip of the banana to add me on steam! \ `-._____,-'=/ ____`._ ----- _,'_____ My sig seem to be too good for Poniverse, so here's a banana `-----' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, LunarWave said: PC gaming is cheaper in any case, because you don't overpay for games and get to keep them when the platform inevitably keels over. Pretty sure looking at my shelf... Yup... Still have PS2 games that I still own even though the platform is officially dead... Yeah not seeing it. Also can buy used games for reduced prices as well. 9 minutes ago, LunarWave said: My setup is old, and probably far from optimal, it's just a sample of how cheaply you can do it and how long it lasts. I made it almost 6 years ago now, added a new card 3 yrs ago, and I can easily see people spending on game markup than I spent on my whole setup. Yeah I'm sorry but if you wanted to play a game on similar or better settings than a modern console made in 2013 you would be paying more. 10 minutes ago, LunarWave said: If I create a new PC now, with a budget of $400, it will play everything released recently on high settings Yeah and what build is that? What build are you proposing that costs less than the PS4 Pro that can play games on the same or higher settings for the same lifespan? The PS4 Pro likely will have another 4-5 years before it's retired. What build are you making that can play Doom 2016 today and will be able to play the latest AAA title at high settings in 2019 for less than $400? Please enlighten me because I'm quite confident it doesn't exist. 12 minutes ago, LunarWave said: while I won't lose any games I got before, to the point where I can play 2001 games if I so desire, and I get to keep my old PC as a hardware for home server. Pretty sure I can still play my PS2 games sitting on my shelf and the hardware doesn't magically disappear... 12 minutes ago, LunarWave said: Similar situation with consoles usually either forces you to keep it to play older stuff, or forces you to scrap it entirely. So the "Advantage" is not having to keep the old stuff to play. Got it. Not really an advantage I see as super valuable to most. Humoring you let's look at one of these budget builds: https://pcbuildsonabudget.com/best-400-dollar-gaming-pc-build-2018 So out of the gate it's already more expensive than $400. However if we take off the CD drive we can knock the price down a little. But if we are talking starting from scratch we have to treat both sides like starting from nothing. So if I am a buying a PS4 Pro to play games here is what I need: PS4 Pro - $400 PSN - Optional if I don't want to play online, but for the sake of argument $60 We won't go over games yet because that's sort of another category. If I want to build this PC: Looking at maybe $400 total Keyboard and mouse not included in price so if we're thrifty maybe $20 for both combined? So now let's look at longevity. Sony has a track record of 7-10 years of support for their systems so that PS4 Pro will likely last you 5 years without upgrade. A GTX 1050 however ALREADY has trouble playing some AAA games. So you will likely need to upgrade in 1-2 years. Upping your costs more. Now when we get into game prices... Used games negate costs a bit, and PSN does have digital sales too. In the end you're only paying a tiny bit more than Steam would offer. Again I stress that PC gaming is ONLY cheaper if you are a specific customer, but not for all customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celli 4,337 February 4, 2018 Share February 4, 2018 Cryptomining will have a negative effect on PC gaming if it isn't fixed soon. Signed, a PC gamer with a gtx 1070 and i7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure Envy 1,092 February 10, 2018 Share February 10, 2018 I'm just amused my 980 Ti is selling for $200 more than I paid for it two years ago. I'd sell it, but... games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrubbed user 3,416 February 10, 2018 Share February 10, 2018 On 2/4/2018 at 10:45 AM, Celli said: Cryptomining will have a negative effect on PC gaming if it isn't fixed soon. The best we can hope for is mining-specific cards that have no ports on them, maybe with a slightly card. Unfortunately, these may not be so great as they would lack ports. If the market crashes, which it does because of everlasting volatility, it would be difficult to sell second-hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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