Season 5's 'finality'

[Them's Seeing Ponies 282]

Having recently committed to rewatching the entirety of the series as a build-up to the inevitable conclusion on the 12th, I was able to return to numerous older episodes (and entire previous seasons), some of which I had barely watched since their original airdates years ago, with a fresh perspective, and came to a surprising conclusion regarding the oft-acclaimed season 5.

Admittedly, I don't exactly consider it the best season, or my favorite, but I happen to find season 5 kind of fascinating on a number of levels, largely in its uniquely recurrent notes of finality - the CMC finally acquiring their marks, Twilight gaining an apprentice in Starlight Glimmer, the M6 (on a theoretical level) confronting the emerging unfortunate realities of their previously revered ambitions, use of frequent references to previous seasons as major (if not consistently logical or effective) plot points (think Moondancer, Gilda's flashback, Luna lapsing into guilt from her tenure as NMM, 'sequel' episodes presenting different takes on Nightmare Night, HWE and the Sisterhooves Social). This does have a contextual basis in that S5 represents the departure of the remaining key members of the show's crew from the Faust seasons en masse (Jayson Thiessen, Meghan McCarthy (to an extent, her input on S8-9 is minimal, if Nicole Dubuc's word is anything to go by), AKR, Larson, Cindy Morrow, Dave Polsky (kind of) and the like) with members of the show's current creative team emerging onto the scene or rising through the ranks (Haber, Confalone and the Lady Writers), which in turn allows S5 to adopt the air of a transitional season marking the conclusion of the 'old' Faust-run FiM's remnants (most notably through AKR and Larson's episodes, which, while more dour and dramatic and (on average) less charmingly meta than S1 and S2, both contained elements of the sensibilities  and vestigial charm which defined the earlier seasons of the show - for example, Pinkie's quirky wordplay quotient has plummeted dramatically since AKR's departure) and the 'new' FiM dominated by the likes of Haber, the Lady Writers and Big Jim (with a more extroverted style of comedy, more snark-heavy dialogue and a greater tendency towards conceptual intricacy). Resultantly, to me at least, S5 has a specific air of a 'beginning of an end' or an 'end of a beginning' in the sense of its amalgamation of episodes concluding specific aspects of its preceding seasons (most notably through Larson and AKR's episodes) whilst offering suggestions of the direction the show would soon veer into (Party Pooped offers the earliest glimpse of the style of comedy that the later seasons would draw from continuously). Add this to Thiessen passing the torch to Big Jim as 'supervising director' halfway through the season (which becomes apparent through a subtle-but-noticeable shift in visuals - Thiessen's style seems to tend towards more far shots and 'flat' perspectives (as if he's more self-aware of the show's stylized appearance) whereas Big Jim favors parking the camera in a closer and broader style akin to Ed, Edd N' Eddy  in a sense - a comparison I can actually buy given Jim's work on the latter for virtually its entire run) and S5 in general has the bizarre air of a 'final season' to it at times, to the extent of arguably competing with S9 (regardless of comparisons between the overall quality of the two's episodes) in that regard. It leads me to wonder if anyone else had noticed this sense of 'finality' and could offer any further thoughts and observations in the weird mixture of old and new that is S5. 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Them's Seeing Ponies

[Latecomer 439]

59 minutes ago, Them's Seeing Ponies said:

Having recently committed to rewatching the entirety of the series as a build-up to the inevitable conclusion on the 12th, I was able to return to numerous older episodes (and entire previous seasons), some of which I had barely watched since their original airdates years ago, with a fresh perspective, and came to a surprising conclusion regarding the oft-acclaimed season 5.

Admittedly, I don't exactly consider it the best season, or my favorite, but I happen to find season 5 kind of fascinating on a number of levels, largely in its uniquely recurrent notes of finality - the CMC finally acquiring their marks, Twilight gaining an apprentice in Starlight Glimmer, the M6 (on a theoretical level) confronting the emerging unfortunate realities of their previously revered ambitions, use of frequent references to previous seasons as major (if not consistently logical or effective) plot points (think Moondancer, Gilda's flashback, Luna lapsing into guilt from her tenure as NMM, 'sequel' episodes presenting different takes on Nightmare Night, HWE and the Sisterhooves Social). This does have a contextual basis in that S5 represents the departure of the remaining key members of the show's crew from the Faust seasons en masse (Jayson Thiessen, Meghan McCarthy (to an extent, her input on S8-9 is minimal, if Nicole Dubuc's word is anything to go by), AKR, Larson, Cindy Morrow, Dave Polsky (kind of) and the like) with members of the show's current creative team emerging onto the scene or rising through the ranks (Haber, Confalone and the Lady Writers), which in turn allows S5 to adopt the air of a transitional season marking the conclusion of the 'old' Faust-run FiM's remnants (most notably through AKR and Larson's episodes, which, while more dour and dramatic and (on average) less charmingly meta than S1 and S2, both contained elements of the sensibilities  and vestigial charm which defined the earlier seasons of the show - for example, Pinkie's quirky wordplay quotient has plummeted dramatically since AKR's departure) and the 'new' FiM dominated by the likes of Haber, the Lady Writers and Big Jim (with a more extroverted style of comedy, more snark-heavy dialogue and a greater tendency towards conceptual intricacy). Resultantly, to me at least, S5 has a specific air of a 'beginning of an end' or an 'end of a beginning' in the sense of its amalgamation of episodes concluding specific aspects of its preceding seasons (most notably through Larson and AKR's episodes) whilst offering suggestions of the direction the show would soon veer into (Party Pooped offers the earliest glimpse of the style of comedy that the later seasons would draw from continuously). Add this to Thiessen passing the torch to Big Jim as 'supervising director' halfway through the season (which becomes apparent through a subtle-but-noticeable shift in visuals - Thiessen's style seems to tend towards more far shots and 'flat' perspectives (as if he's more self-aware of the show's stylized appearance) whereas Big Jim favors parking the camera in a closer and broader style akin to Ed, Edd N' Eddy  in a sense - a comparison I can actually buy given Jim's work on the latter for virtually its entire run) and S5 in general has the bizarre air of a 'final season' to it at times, to the extent of arguably competing with S9 (regardless of comparisons between the overall quality of the two's episodes) in that regard. It leads me to wonder if anyone else had noticed this sense of 'finality' and could offer any further thoughts and observations in the weird mixture of old and new that is S5. 

Rather than "finality", which indicates an end, shouldn't you be looking for a word which indicates a middle or turning point? As you point out, it (and Season 4, perhaps) are the transitional period of the show.

Now I do tend to see Season 5's two halves as being of opposite quality, which could tie into my preference for older seasons... except that 7 is one of my favourites, and as you point out, the "old-style" and "new-style" episodes are quite jumbled together.

[Megas 27,761]

I don’t know, S5 has a pretty awful finale, but otherwise it’s still a pretty great season, whereas S9 as a whole has left me completely sour. I’d still rather have the movie or one of the specials be the finale, or even just S7, S8 if i’m Feeling generous 

[Latecomer 439]

1 hour ago, Kiryu-Chan said:

I don’t know, S5 has a pretty awful finale, but otherwise it’s still a pretty great season, whereas S9 as a whole has left me completely sour. I’d still rather have the movie or one of the specials be the finale, or even just S7, S8 if i’m Feeling generous 

It's true it might have been better to finish sooner - great as Frenemies is, dunno if it's worth the rest of the season - but I would have much the same feeling if it closed at the end of Season 5 and no subsequent season has had a suitable ending. I suppose you could cut out the Pillars and whip up something for 7, but I wouldn't want to lose 8. Ultimately, the show needed Season 9 - it just needed it to be better.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Beside the finale, some episodes of S5 feel like they should belong to season 9, even some of them feel more "finale" than some episodes of season 9 (I can compare between Lost Mark and Last Crusade, Castle Sweet Castle vs Uprooted).

[Latecomer 439]

2 minutes ago, Lambdadelta said:

Beside the finale, some episodes of S5 feel like they should belong to season 9, even some of them feel more "finale" than some episodes of season 9 (I can compare between Lost Mark and Last Crusade, Castle Sweet Castle vs Uprooted).

Lost Mark is debatable (it depends on whether you think a CMC that isn't seeking their marks is still the CMC) but Castle Sweet Castle is absolutely a transition episode.

[Thrond 3,263]

Even at the time I noticed that it had that vibe, and it's clear that the intention in a lot of episodes is to suggest the main characters had completed a "journey" and shift them to more of a "mentor" role - something that I think a lot of people (though not myself) wish season 9 was doing, especially given that the show pretty quickly turned its back on that idea. The big notes of finality come pretty frequently, even in episodes like "The Mane Attraction" which don't really conclude anything. At the time I complained that it diminished the power of the finale a bit, though I dunno if I'd still consider that the case. It definitely still serves as a transition of a sort, as it introduces the kind of storytelling ambition and tighter plot structures that would become frequent later on. The main characters had already had their roles disrupted in season 4, when they started to be consistently shown as an inspiration to secondary characters, and season 5 doubles down: in many stories, they are the ones teaching someone else a lesson, and they all directly approach their goals at some point, which left the next four seasons to reconcile that with the show's moralistic storytelling. So yeah, it has a strong air of finality to it, but it leaves the door open for the show either to end there or to change into something different. 

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

I think season 5 feels like the true beginning of FiM mark 2, which means it wouldn't have happened if there were no early seasons, and it relies on the early seasons to a certain extent.

It feels more meta and has more direct fanservices, it has callbacks and connections to the earlier seasons. I is more spicey. These aspects rejuvenized the whole series and made it feel fresh and energetic again, but it also lacked originalities, nuances and the fable-like qualities of early seasons. Once you start to mix strawberries to the yogurt, you can't get plain yogurt anymore.

I think it is an inevitable phase not just for FiM but also for many serieses, but I do prefer the early season's charm and it's less frequent, less blatant ways of fandom recognition and continuity.

Edited October 13, 2019 by Sepul-Coloratura