Vigilante (adult)

[Samurshy 708]

Alright bare with me here, I wrote this at like 4:00 am and am pretty tired. I had a heated discussion with my heroine addict cousin not to long ago. He told me he had connections and knew everyone from meth slingers to tar dealers. It got me thinking, I despise drugs and drug use, yet little is done to actually prevent all this. You imprison theses people more just pop up and take their place. So I had this idea, what if someone created a rag tag group of vigilantes that had connections to the underground and knew everyone. And those vigilantes went around the law to take down criminals who deal and manufacture. Wouldn't that be amazing, just get people together with different skill sets, some hand to hand combat, some guns, some cyber? I think that is what should happen. What do you think?

[Random User 249]

Nothing is done about drugs because drugs are a primary source of income to the CCA (Corrections Corporation of America). Send more people into prisons and they get more money. That's probably why America hosts 1/4th of the world's entire prison population. Drug use earns privately owned prisons like these a lot of money, and so they are likely to remain in America. Actually cracking down on drugs would be bad for business.

 

Vigilantism isn't exactly to best way to regulate drugs. They're usually circulated through gang members and probably government officials, and it'd be quite the dangerous shootout either way.

[Samurshy 708]

Well I was just saying, what if the vigilante's were very skilled, maybe some sharp shooters, and some high tech weaponry. (of corse you would need a Bruce Wayne sized bank account to fund it) But assuming you have all the money couldn't going around the law just put at least a damper on the drug wars? There has to be a way.

[Random User 249]

It'd likely be illegal to start a group of vigilantes in that matter, but if you could manage to deal with that and try to fight against drugs I suppose it'd be worth a shot. I'm not sure how much of a damper it would put on things, but drugs are just something that no one wants to give up. Not the citizens, not the prison system, not the government.

[Ol' Sarge 885]

Nothing is done about drugs because drugs are a primary source of income to the CCA (Corrections Corporation of America). Send more people into prisons and they get more money. That's probably why America hosts 1/4th of the world's entire prison population. Drug use earns privately owned prisons like these a lot of money, and so they are likely to remain in America. Actually cracking down on drugs would be bad for business.

 

Vigilantism isn't exactly to best way to regulate drugs. They're usually circulated through gang members and probably government officials, and it'd be quite the dangerous shootout either way.

 

Wow, really? Conspire much? Sorry, not everything is about the corporate elite and black helicopters.

 

But, your unintentional point is 'Crime Pays', That is one the first things I was taught when I was going to school for criminal justice. However, that doesn't mean that there are agencies that are intentionally not doing their job in order to satisfy CCA or any other entity.

 

 

OP: No vigilantie justice is not the answer. Regardless of the intention, potentially killing other people would really make you just as guilty as the drug people.

 

The problem with drugs, is that it follows the basic supply economics: Supply and demand, as long as we demand it....someone is going to supply it. There is no quick, easy fix. I think education should be turned up a notch and really show people what these drugs do to you. Then again, people are going to find a way to do them anyway. But it's not because the government or big corporations control us.

[Titan Rising 2,156]

Personally... I think drugs are horrible as well, but trying to get them by force doesn't really solve anything. People are still going to want to use them and they will probably find something to fill that addiction eventually if they can't just find another person selling the same drugs.

 

The only way to really stop this kind of drug use is to let people decide if it's a good idea to use them for themselves, and to encourage people not to by helping to fill in the holes that they try to fill in with drugs by being there for them.

 

That's what I think anyway, I think doing it any other way is to make ourselves feel more comfortable rather than to actually help anyone.

[Random User 249]

Wow, really? Conspire much? Sorry, not everything is about the corporate elite and black helicopters.

 

But, your unintentional point is 'Crime Pays', That is one the first things I was taught when I was going to school for criminal justice. However, that doesn't mean that there are agencies that are intentionally not doing their job in order to satisfy CCA or any other entity.

 

Questioning everything isn't exactly a bad thing. People do earn a considerable profit from the amount of people we cram into our over-populated prison system. Hell, the government sold drugs under Ronald Reagan.

 

The White House and other governmental branches are not transparent. In fact, it was recently discovered that our government was selling weapons to drug cartels, and those very same weapons were used against us. I never said that the government certainly does traffick drugs, but who knows what goes on behind the scenes? Certainly not you or I.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Random User

[False Perception 482]

Wow, really? Conspire much? Sorry, not everything is about the corporate elite and black helicopters. The media controls our perceptions.

 

But, your unintentional point is 'Crime Pays', It does. That is one the first things I was taught when I was going to school for criminal justice. I am in no way participating in or have been participating in any illegal activities of any kind. However, that doesn't mean that there are agencies that are intentionally not doing their job in order to satisfy CCA or any other entity. Logic dictates by probability, there definitely is.

 

 

OP: No vigilantie justice is not the answer. Because fire with fire isn't good. Regardless of the intention, potentially killing other people would really make you just as guilty as the drug people. If you steal from someone who stole from you, it would still be stealing to the police.

 

The problem with drugs, is that it follows the basic supply economics: Supply and demand, as long as we demand it....someone is going to supply it. There is no quick, easy fix. Brohoof for the logic. I think education should be turned up a notch and really show people what these drugs do to you. Yeah, but what they show us is usually only the extreme cases. Then again, people are going to find a way to do them anyway. But it's not because the government or big corporations control us. America was founded on a basis that they can't.

 

I'm actually with you on this one.

[Ol' Sarge 885]

Questioning everything isn't exactly a bad thing. People do earn a considerable profit from the amount of people we cram into our over-populated prison system. Hell, the government sold drugs under Ronald Reagan.

 

The White House and other governmental branches are not transparent. In fact, it was recently discovered that our government was selling weapons to drug cartels, and those very same weapons were used against us. I never said that the government certainly does traffick drugs, but who knows what goes on behind the scenes? Certainly not you or I.

 

You are correct to question your government. But do it after thorough research. Someone will always be profiting off of something, that's just life. Do you think the prison system was any better when it was all government run? No, that's why companies like CCA were brought in. I don't care either way, as long as they keep the criminals behind bars.

 

The difference we have here is experience in life. Look, I applaud you for wanting to keep things transparent, but what facts do you have that Reagan's administration sold drugs? I mean really? I was your age during that time, I remember that Reagan was one of the ones that actually stepped up the "War on Drugs" and started the "Just Say No" Campaign.

 

Also, the gun selling bit you mentioned is not new, it's been out there for months now and heads at the DEA have already rolled. It was a misguided attempt to try and track down the cartels by tracing the guns used in violent crimes. Yeah, it blew up in their face. But you have to understand that something like this is being done at the agency level, and not necessarily dictated by the White House.

 

Again, keep asking questions, as that is your right as a citizen, but don't settle for an answer from one source. And don't assume that everything that happens is happening because the White House said to do it.

[Cupcake Ice Cream 436]

Vigilantes are just as bad as the people they kill. In fact vigilantes tend to not research their targets as well as we like to think. Let's take a perfect example from the good ole US of A. George Zimmerman killed Travon Martin. There is good reason to think that he may have killed him on racial grounds. However we can't prove this yet. Now...Spike Lee decided he wanted justice. So he tweeted out the address to George Zimmerman with the purpose of starting vigilante justice since the cops had not arrested him yet. Spike Lee sent all these people to THE WRONG George Zimmerman. It very nearly killed an innocent family. Vigilantes to me are just people who feel they want go around the system and be the police. They wan to take the easy way out. I find them just as despicable as the criminals they supposedly hunt. It all comes down to th question of who gets to police the vigilantes when they go too far?

[Random User 249]

You are correct to question your government. But do it after thorough research. Someone will always be profiting off of something, that's just life. Do you think the prison system was any better when it was all government run? No, that's why companies like CCA were brought in. I don't care either way, as long as they keep the criminals behind bars.

 

The difference we have here is experience in life. Look, I applaud you for wanting to keep things transparent, but what facts do you have that Reagan's administration sold drugs? I mean really? I was your age during that time, I remember that Reagan was one of the ones that actually stepped up the "War on Drugs" and started the "Just Say No" Campaign.

 

Also, the gun selling bit you mentioned is not new, it's been out there for months now and heads at the DEA have already rolled. It was a misguided attempt to try and track down the cartels by tracing the guns used in violent crimes. Yeah, it blew up in their face. But you have to understand that something like this is being done at the agency level, and not necessarily dictated by the White House.

 

Again, keep asking questions, as that is your right as a citizen, but don't settle for an answer from one source. And don't assume that everything that happens is happening because the White House said to do it.

 

I'm fairly certain Obama knew we were selling weapons to cartels.

 

The whole Iran-Contra business with Ronald Reagan was funded in part by 14 million dollars in drug money. This was found written in Ollie North's diary, which had multiple entries regarding drug trafficking. This information was released with the Kerry Committee report and is official.

 

Lastly, I honestly wouldn't mind the prison system if it wasn't crammed chock-full of minor drug offenders.

[Samurshy 708]

I am not just talking about some misinformed people who go in willy nilly guns-a-blazin I talking about people who have the best connections and resources, who go around the law (yes it would be illegal) To take down the biggest drug cartels in the world. This would not be a case of George Zimmerman because the Vigilatnes I am talking about would not be some neighborhood watch guy who up and decides to shoot someone. No, these guys would be educated, these guys would be specialists. These guys would have a member who deals exclusively with information, a data specialist. They would have gps trackers, computers, guns and armaments, police scanners, and each would have an individual set of skills. I honestly think this is the answer, the government and law system is too biased, everyone has their hand in the cookie jar. Call me cynical but I don't think education in drugs and the law system will ever be enough to stop the trafficking of drugs. No, there needs to be an outside source who takes down all the biggest drug manufacturers and are not in it for the profit.

 

 

Vigilantes are just as bad as the people they kill. In fact vigilantes tend to not research their targets as well as we like to think. Let's take a perfect example from the good ole US of A. George Zimmerman killed Travon Martin. There is good reason to think that he may have killed him on racial grounds. However we can't prove this yet. Now...Spike Lee decided he wanted justice. So he tweeted out the address to George Zimmerman with the purpose of starting vigilante justice since the cops had not arrested him yet. Spike Lee sent all these people to THE WRONG George Zimmerman. It very nearly killed an innocent family. Vigilantes to me are just people who feel they want go around the system and be the police. They wan to take the easy way out. I find them just as despicable as the criminals they supposedly hunt. It all comes down to th question of who gets to police the vigilantes when they go too far?

 

Wow, really? Conspire much? Sorry, not everything is about the corporate elite and black helicopters.

 

But, your unintentional point is 'Crime Pays', That is one the first things I was taught when I was going to school for criminal justice. However, that doesn't mean that there are agencies that are intentionally not doing their job in order to satisfy CCA or any other entity.

 

 

OP: No vigilantie justice is not the answer. Regardless of the intention, potentially killing other people would really make you just as guilty as the drug people.

 

The problem with drugs, is that it follows the basic supply economics: Supply and demand, as long as we demand it....someone is going to supply it. There is no quick, easy fix. I think education should be turned up a notch and really show people what these drugs do to you. Then again, people are going to find a way to do them anyway. But it's not because the government or big corporations control us.

 

Edited July 22, 2012 by Bronynonymous

[Cupcake Ice Cream 436]

I am not just talking about some misinformed people who go in willy nilly guns-a-blazin I talking about people who have the best connections and resources, who go around the law (yes it would be illegal) To take down the biggest drug cartels in the world. This would not be a case of George Zimmerman because the Vigilatnes I am talking about would not be some neighborhood watch guy who up and decides to shoot someone. No, these guys would be educated, these guys would be specialists. These guys would have a member who deals exclusively with information, a data specialist. They would have gps trackers, computers, guns and armaments, police scanners, and each would have an individual set of skills. I honestly think this is the answer, the government and law system is too biased, everyone has their hand in the cookie jar. Call me cynical but I don't think education in drugs and the law system will ever be enough to stop the trafficking of drugs. No, there needs to be an outside source who takes down all the biggest drug manufacturers and are not in it for the profit.

 

But there is no way you can promise me that only the guilty ones would be punished. And you can't promise me that they would never push things too far. Besides just like the police and the CIA. You put one down they are gonna come right back. My opinion is that vigilantes are not the way

[Ol' Sarge 885]

I am not just talking about some misinformed people who go in willy nilly guns-a-blazin I talking about people who have the best connections and resources, who go around the law (yes it would be illegal) To take down the biggest drug cartels in the world. This would not be a case of George Zimmerman because the Vigilatnes I am talking about would not be some neighborhood watch guy who up and decides to shoot someone. No, these guys would be educated, these guys would be specialists. These guys would have a member who deals exclusively with information, a data specialist. They would have gps trackers, computers, guns and armaments, police scanners, and each would have an individual set of skills. I honestly think this is the answer, the government and law system is too biased, everyone has their hand in the cookie jar. Call me cynical but I don't think education in drugs and the law system will ever be enough to stop the trafficking of drugs. No, there needs to be an outside source who takes down all the biggest drug manufacturers and are not in it for the profit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Point taken, sorry we got off topic there. I am afraid that you will never be able to find such a group that would be in it for the greater good. And even if you wiped out the big cartels, as long as there are people that insist on using, someone will be there to make and sell it. You would have to create the strictest society ever known; where all of the borders were sealed and drug possession was punishable by death to even have a chance of truly defeating the drug problem.

[ToridAkbolto 170]

I think the best possible solution would be an airborne microorganism that has no noticable effect other than removing the effects of certain drugs. Perhaps multiple microorganisms to cause a widespread pandemic, and all they do is make the human body immune to the effects of certain drugs we deem illegal.

 

This would however. be very dangerous in the event of a mutation and perhaps side effects that cause the body to become immune to actual medicine. However, if done right, this will be the most unstoppable way, and if done in secret, this will be the most undetectable way. It will have virtually no bloodshed and will seem like drugs have suddenly just "stopped working".

[Samurshy 708]

Point taken, sorry we got off topic there. I am afraid that you will never be able to find such a group that would be in it for the greater good. And even if you wiped out the big cartels, as long as there are people that insist on using, someone will be there to make and sell it. You would have to create the strictest society ever known; where all of the borders were sealed and drug possession was punishable by death to even have a chance of truly defeating the drug problem.

 

Hmm you may be right. The way I see it, if a bunch of the manufacturers are gone, the price on drugs would skyrocket to the point that no one would be able to pay for them (except for the 1%). I don't know someone would be able to find a group of such individuals that were not in it for a profit. I personally know 2 out of the 5 specialists mentioned. I know a cyber specialist and a martial arts black belt. I don't know where I would find the others, but I am not too bad with a shotgun or sniper rifle (definitely not a specialist of any sort) I have just been around guns my whole life. I think the main problem would be hiding the vigilantes identities from the government and cartels. I think that is the most impossible part, especially with all the forensics that there are now a days.

 

I think the best possible solution would be an airborne microorganism that has no noticable effect other than removing the effects of certain drugs. Perhaps multiple microorganisms to cause a widespread pandemic, and all they do is make the human body immune to the effects of certain drugs we deem illegal.

 

This would however. be very dangerous in the event of a mutation and perhaps side effects that cause the body to become immune to actual medicine. However, if done right, this will be the most unstoppable way, and if done in secret, this will be the most undetectable way. It will have virtually no bloodshed and will seem like drugs have suddenly just "stopped working".

 

If such a thing existed, I would back it one hundred percent.

[Whiteshade 1,426]

Drug use is a public health issue, not a criminal one. The fact that its illegal and has harsh punishments only increases drug use, because reverse psychology. Remember prohibition? When that happened, MORE people consumed alcohol, not less. Treat the addictions, not the prison industrial complex.

[Samurshy 708]

Treat the addiction with a bullet to the head...

Just kidding..............................................................................................................................................................................

[Ol' Sarge 885]

Hmm you may be right. The way I see it, if a bunch of the manufacturers are gone, the price on drugs would skyrocket to the point that no one would be able to pay for them (except for the 1%). I don't know someone would be able to find a group of such individuals that were not in it for a profit. I personally know 2 out of the 5 specialists mentioned. I know a cyber specialist and a martial arts black belt. I don't know where I would find the others, but I am not too bad with a shotgun or sniper rifle (definitely not a specialist of any sort) I have just been around guns my whole life. I think the main problem would be hiding the vigilantes identities from the government and cartels. I think that is the most impossible part, especially with all the forensics that there are now a days.

 

 

 

But do you realize just how massive the drug trade is? Mexico is practically a Narco-State, I don't care how badass a couple of guys or even a few hundred are, there will always be someone with a bigger gun, a bigger knife, etc. When they brought down Pablo Escobar, one of the most notorious cartel leaders ever, there was a lull for awhile, but now the Mexicans are taking over the business and they make Escobar look like Pinkie Pie.

 

i applaud you for wanting to rid the earth of this vermin, I really do, I just don't see it happening vigilante style.

[Samurshy 708]

But do you realize just how massive the drug trade is? Mexico is practically a Narco-State, I don't care how badass a couple of guys or even a few hundred are, there will always be someone with a bigger gun, a bigger knife, etc. When they brought down Pablo Escobar, one of the most notorious cartel leaders ever, there was a lull for awhile, but now the Mexicans are taking over the business and they make Escobar look like Pinkie Pie.

 

i applaud you for wanting to rid the earth of this vermin, I really do, I just don't see it happening vigilante style.

 

Ah, but vigilante's would have something on their side that the drug trade wouldn't... The element of surprise.......................................................................................................................................................

[Whiteshade 1,426]

The best way to stabilize Mexico as I see it is to reduce US drug demand. That and stop selling guns to the cartels.

 

Ah, but vigilante's would have something on their side that the drug trade wouldn't... The element of surprise.......................................................................................................................................................

 

Not sure if joking or just stupid

 

Also I'm pretty sure the average vigilante isn't also a ninja

Edited July 22, 2012 by Whiteshade

[Cupcake Ice Cream 436]

Ah, but vigilante's would have something on their side that the drug trade wouldn't... The element of surprise.......................................................................................................................................................

 

The drug cartels have a massive reach into communities. People paid off, information gained from hidden sources, and firepower beyond reason. How do you think many of them stay so safe?

[Samurshy 708]

No one is going to suspect people who have nothing to do with the government or drug trade to just show up one day and lay waste to their facilities, its not stupid its a fact. What drug lord is going to say 'Hmm .. I have a feeling that some random people are going to storm my front door' its called the element of surprise.

[Cupcake Ice Cream 436]

No one is going to suspect people who have nothing to do with the government or drug trade to just show up one day and lay waste to their facilities, its not stupid its a fact. What drug lord is going to say 'Hmm .. I have a feeling that some random people are going to storm my front door' its called the element of surprise.

 

right...because they never have other drug cartels try and bump them off with the element of surprise? They always expect people to bust through the door. Hence the massive amount of security they typically have. Try as they might...it is near impossible not to leave a trail when you move. Vigilantes, government, they all have to get their information somewhere. The vigilantes aren't just going to magically know where these cartels are and exaclty how to take them down.

 

And even if all that were magically refuted...you still can't promise me these vigilantes won't go overboard

Edited July 22, 2012 by Cupcake Ice Cream

[Samurshy 708]

right...because they never have other drug cartels try and bump them off with the element of surprise? They always expect people to bust through the door. Hence the massive amount of security they typically have. Try as they might...it is near impossible not to leave a trail when you move. Vigilantes, government, they all have to get their information somewhere. The vigilantes aren't just going to magically know where these cartels are and exaclty how to take them down.

 

Every security has its flaw, no matter how flawless it may seem. There are ways of infiltrating and executing people who seem untouchable. Especially if you have the right connections and a big enough bank account.