Deleting tracks permanently

[Twilight Sparkle ✨ 8,529]

Personally, I hope that you're going to leave your music up on Pony.fm forever, but artists will rightfully reserve the right to remove their tracks from the site at any time... it would be extremely shortsighted to not provide for that.

 

 

However, I'm a bit split on whether to actually provide an artist-facing way to physically delete a track. If the "delete track" button immediately and permanently removes your music from Pony.fm, it will certainly give you the most control over your content, but it will come at the price of making a recovery from an unintended deletion much more difficult (it would be to the point where unless you can present irrevocable proof that your account was compromised, requests to "undelete" content would likely not be accommodated, as they will necessitate a very laborious manual backup restoration process).

 

The other option is to treat the "delete track" button as more of a "trashcan" - when you delete a track, it will be marked as such and added to a deletion queue. A set amount of time after you "deleted" the track, it will physically be erased from Pony.fm. Up until the moment the track "expires", it will be recoverable with just a couple of clicks. If I go this route, I'm still not sure whether artists should be given the ability to restore tracks themselves or whether it is an ability best limited to moderators or even admins.

 

I must admit that the first option will allow me to add some perfectly placed Pinkie Pie to the delete confirmation window (seen above). 

 

 

 

So, which method of deleting tracks would you prefer?

• Complete Control - Delete means delete, and there's no going back after the deed is done, short of extraordinary circumstances.
• Trashcan System - Chuck a track in the trash. It can be pulled back out until the garbage man comes by to pick it up.

[Arkane 270]

Second one!!

I've done many many MANY mistakes where my songs get deleted instantaneously. So it would be very beneficial if the song weren't deleted immediately. Maybe 2 days then delete.

[letterone 1,204]

Second choice for the win. There's nothing more annoying than uploading something, feeling like it sucks, deleting it, then realizing "HEY! It didn't really suck! Dang it!"

[CloudFyre 848]

Second choice, by far and away. Everyone else has already voiced why.

[Marcato 2,143]

Yeah, I would most definitely lean towards the second choice. There's nothing more upsetting than making a mistake like deleting it and never being able to get it back. In the end I don't see why this should be a "Moderator/Admin" only feature. Considering the circumstances I don't see what harm deleting a track and letting it stay a bit.

 

Perhaps when the user chooses to delete the track, it becomes invisible to the public eye, but the author can still see it there? Might not be necessary, but it could still be a good idea.

 

Or maybe even better, when they decide to delete, they are given the choice of permanent deletion, or to make it invisible for a time before it vanishes. Perhaps even a choice as to when it gets removed automatically?

[Twilight Sparkle ✨ 8,529]

Wow, I'm honestly surprised that I'm the only one in favour of "delete means delete" option!

 

Just to be clear, I don't want people to take the removal of content lightly, and deleting your music should not be something you do without thinking it through properly first. Frankly, I'm not responsible at the end of the day for getting your stuff back if you told Pony.fm you wanted it gone the day before. The main thinking I had behind making a track deletion reversible in any manner whatsoever was as a safety buffer of sorts in the unlikely event that your account was compromised.

 

 

Are you all really that likely to change your mind about "deleting" your music?

 

 

Perhaps when the user chooses to delete the track, it becomes invisible to the public eye, but the author can still see it there? Might not be necessary, but it could still be a good idea.

The idea of "deleting" a track (whatever the button ends up actually doing) is to remove it from the site, not to hide it from public view. So, to that end, I think removing access to the track even for its creator is necessary to hammer it in that the track is on its way out.

 

The most access an artist will have to their track is that they'll see it in a "deletion queue" list, which may give them the option to restore it.

 

Or maybe even better, when they decide to delete, they are given the choice of permanent deletion, or to make it invisible for a time before it vanishes. Perhaps even a choice as to when it gets removed automatically?

 

It's either permanent deletion or "trashcan-style" deletion. Offering both options is going to confuse users - and honestly, I expect it to completely defeat the purpose of a trashcan-style system if permanent deletion is also available. Artists may fully and truly believe they want to permanently remove a track and thus hit the perma-delete option, only to change their mind ten minutes later. The virtue of the trashcan system is that it completely removes the ability of the artist to actually remove the track themselves.

 

Allowing an artist-set "expiry date" isn't going to happen, either. I really don't think it's necessary, and the timeout is something I'd rather control myself. Depending on variable factors like the amount of disk space available at a given moment in time, I'd like to be able to easily adjust the timeout for technical reasons. Keep in mind, merely providing a trashcan option at all is already offering a feature that most SaaS's honestly do not.

[CloudFyre 848]

Just to be clear, I don't want people to take the removal of content lightly, and deleting your music should not be something you do without thinking it through properly first. Frankly, I'm not responsible at the end of the day for getting your stuff back if you told Pony.fm you wanted it gone the day before. The main thinking I had behind making a track deletion reversible in any manner whatsoever was as a safety buffer of sorts in the unlikely event that your account was compromised.

 

 

Are you all really that likely to change your mind about "deleting" your music?

 

The idea of "deleting" a track (whatever the button ends up actually doing) is to remove it from the site, not to hide it from public view. So, to that end, I think removing access to the track even for its creator is necessary to hammer it in that the track is on its way out.

 

The most access an artist will have to their track is that they'll see it in a "deletion queue" list, which may give them the option to restore it.

 

 

It's either permanent deletion or "trashcan-style" deletion. Offering both options is going to confuse users - and honestly, I expect it to completely defeat the purpose of a trashcan-style system if permanent deletion is also available. Artists may fully and truly believe they want to permanently remove a track and thus hit the perma-delete option, only to change their mind ten minutes later. The virtue of the trashcan system is that it completely removes the ability of the artist to actually remove the track themselves.

 

If you're that worried about it, then don't include it. If I have reservations about something I have uploaded, I have one of two options here: 1) I use your feature to "undelete" as it were, or 2) I simply upload the track again.

 

It may be that artists are inherently lazy in that respect. I don't think SoundCloud offers an undelete feature, so you wouldn't really be out anything to not add it as a feature. Besides, most of the time that I delete a track, it's because I'm uploading a new, fixed, or remastered version of a song, and for that I'll need to physically upload a new version instead of "undelete" the last one.

 

Honestly, it might be a better use of time just to have delete mean permanent deletion, and if someone wants it back up, to simply re-upload it. (The only real reason I could see wanting something like what you're offering is if we want to republish an erased song and keep the viewcounts/favorites/whatever other stats are being tallied.)

 

 

[Twilight Sparkle ✨ 8,529]

If you're that worried about it, then don't include it. If I have reservations about something I have uploaded, I have one of two options here: 1) I use your feature to "undelete" as it were, or 2) I simply upload the track again.

 

It may be that artists are inherently lazy in that respect. I don't think SoundCloud offers an undelete feature, so you wouldn't really be out anything to not add it as a feature. Besides, most of the time that I delete a track, it's because I'm uploading a new, fixed, or remastered version of a song, and for that I'll need to physically upload a new version instead of "undelete" the last one.

 

Honestly, it might be a better use of time just to have delete mean permanent deletion, and if someone wants it back up, to simply re-upload it. (The only real reason I could see wanting something like what you're offering is if we want to republish an erased song and keep the viewcounts/favorites/whatever other stats are being tallied.)

 

It's the control aspect of it that I'd like to discuss - I'm actually surprised that no one has demanded the ability to instantly delete their music from Pony.fm. This isn't a matter of what's easiest for me to scrap together in code; it's a matter of what is truly the best option for the artist.

 

It should be noted that while the physical audio files of a track are removed, all the other data associated with it will not be (ie. pageview logs, download logs, comments, moderator logs, etc.). This data will never be deleted as it is needed for administrative, managerial, and promotional purposes; however, because all this data is already there, putting a "trashcan" feature together is actually easier than you might think. Really, I just need to put together a cronjob that wipes the files from existence if their "expiry date" has passed.

 

 

Thanks for explaining your reasoning, though. You did not mention before your need for a way to "replace" a track with a new version. I actually plan to add the ability to upload a new audio file to replace a track's current audio, for this exact purpose, because the alternative - deleting the track and uploading a new version as a brand new track - will mean that the "new" track has to start over with all of its statistics and comments, not to mention that it'll also have a new ID number (and therefore, a new URL - links to the old version will 404 or 410 it is removed).

 

Audio replacement will not be an initial alpha feature, but it's definitely on the way. Until that's ready, if you'd like to upload a new version of your track, just get in touch with me personally and I'll be happy to SFTP it in manually. No artist should need to endure link breakage just because they have a new version of their track (unless, of course, the idea is to publish it as a completely new release that does not replace the original).

[PhonyBrony 275]

I personally think that deleting should mean deleting. I dont wish to make PFM into another soundcloud or whatever, but the point of a deleting tool is to delete. I think when someone decides to delete something, the site should allow the user to make that decision. If they delete the song a few days after they actually press the delete butt (if you understand what i mean) then they're thinking about the deleting after they actually delete it... argh i think I'm confusing myself.

 

However, I understand what some people are saying. It is very important to clearly let users know that the site is about to delete their song if they accidentally delete their song. You know, big bolded text, a radio button to "confirm deletion," that sort of thing.

 

the Phony Brony

[Apple-Jack 312]

welll idk deleting should be instant as im thinking alot before i press the delete button,,,plus the fact that if im adding a track to pony.fm im keeping a ...backup