Is Twilight becoming a princess considered sexist?

[Dreadmallon 353]

   Wait...are people actually thinking this? Are people really asking if the main character of a television show aimed for young girls becoming a princess is sexist? I initially posted thinking this wasn't a serious thread. But now that I've looked into it...

Edited May 30, 2013 by Alkryn

[Anadu Kune 668]

MadPointer, on 29 May 2013 - 7:26 PM, said:

MadPointer, on 29 May 2013 - 7:26 PM, said:

 

@@Anadu Kune,

 

Can you give some real life examples of rewards which change someone's status and physical appearance without person's consent? Even your bass can't rise your your pay without your signature. Are you going to argue that MLP:FIM is set in the medieval setting so that that ruler can do anything to their subjects?

 

1) Do you think scientists should be rewarded for their hard work by promoting them to celebrities on social events?

5) Why do you think it was about sacrifice while forgetting Applejack sacrificing herself in Spike at Your Service? Twilight wasn't even in immediate danger there. I also find it strange that she would try follow Celestia's arbitrary condition without questioning it. She used to be more skeptical.

6) We know that even writers can't tell the purpose of the spell which makes it meaningless.

 

You often write long and detailed posts but I still don't know how you see princess's duties and how you think they're treated. I showed multiple examples to demonstrate that they take part in ceremonial events and ponies bow to them which is similar to the real life princesses. The mane and Celestia six bowed to Twilicron. Do you remember the "Behold" song?

 

You can't easily say that the transformation is akin cutie marks, the episode showed it as something special and Rarity said that she didn't think it was even possible.

 

Miss America was promoting MMC which sends message that girls should be concered about their looks. Twilicorn's growing wings and a few inches reinforces idea that girls should care about their appearance to the point of doing a plastic surgery because otherwise they wouldn't get the wanted status.

Well it should be noted that according to Commander_PonyShep the writter of the article aggrees that Princess Twilight is not sexist. Though Im going to elaborate on your points regardless.

 

The whole point of the scene was one of growth. Reaching a new stage of life. That was one of the themes of Celestia's ballad. That and the love and support of a mentor and mother figure. Celestia guided a process Twilight had already started. This is indicated by said theme and the various visual indicators. The magic that transformed Twilight was the color of Twilights magic and came from within Twilight herself. There is also the burned in image of Twilights cutie mark on the floor and in the sky. Its not about consenting to a new position its about growing up and moving into a new phase of life. Twilight had always been moving toward something grander, always bettering herself. She had always been meant to succeed Celestia in some manner and in some ways already had.

 

A ponys life is very different from the one we live. In reality it is quite normal for someone to spend much time in one profession only to switch to a new one, and many wont know what to do fro quite some time flondering about for decades. This is not so in Equestria every pony is destined to find what they are meant to do and continue down that path for the whole of their lives. the basic lesson or meaning to derive from the cutie mark is not to rush or force yourself into a position in life, and that with patience you will find your place. Of course this isn't completely true in reality, but that is the basic lesson. With Princess Twilight the basic lesson is that through hard work you can do great things, you can become more than you are. It dosnt apply to a real world senario and if you try to apply pony life to real life senarios your going to find a lot of discrepancies.

 

We know that Celestia's duties include dealing with foreign dignitaries such as the Saddle Arabians. Dealing in the local politics of towns such as discussing things with the mayor of ponyville. She also controls the rights of certain lands as she gave Grannysmith's family the land that would be ponyville. Then the extreme task of Raising the Sun to bring forth the day. Luna has to maintain night and it would seem the dreamscape. They are also at the forefront when it comes to making or decisions regarding massive threats to ponykind. Even in the field of in-acting the plans. Before Twilight and the other ponies had control of the Elements it was the royal sister's job to wield them in times of crisis. Cadence took on the responsibility of protecting the crystal empire and it seems continues to do so. As for Twilight we will just have to wait. though she seems to have been doing princess like things for a while now. Saving the world, organizing major significant events such as the Summer Sun Celebration, and Winter Wrap Up ect.

 

5.) Im pretty sure being trapped in a wall of dark crystals that seems to sap your magic whilst a dark ethereal wizard is headed directly in your direction is immediate danger. Not to mention she was willing to potentially sacrafise her standing as Celestias student in her eyes. Which as we know means a lot to her. When has Twilight ever truly questioned Celestias orders before that point. The only time I can recall in Keep Calm and Flutter On.

 

6. I dont think so. We may not know the absolute specific purpose of the spell. What we do know of it is very significant. We know it was made to alter the Elements of Harmony in some way as both it's incomplete and completed version effect the elements. We know that it wasnt meant to swap the Elements of Harmony and that star swirls spell was incomplete. What is shown is that an understanding of friendship is needed to do so. The spell is presented as the one thing Starswirl could not do. The major thing the most legendary magic user in Equestria failed to complete. Twilight however did. That alone is very significant. Also we dont know the writer dont know the purpose of the spell. All we know is that they expressed they did not know. It may indeed turn out that it may be elaborated upon.

 

Yes it is special and it is rare. I never claimed otherwise. However the means seem very similar. Twilight reached it through the full realization and application of the magic of friendship. Just as a pony generally receives a cutie mark by realizing and applying their special talent.

 

What? Now that seems a bit of a stretch to me.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Anadu Kune

[Righteous Fury 344]

it felt as though Twilight becoming a princess was a huge payoff in a very short time

 

 

I think this is the main problem here. It was strongly alluded to TCE, but it still seemed to happen rather quickly. Ironically this an idea Faust had from the very start.

 

I have to disagree with that 'rags to riches' interpretation. Twilight's definitely earned this. I think that was the whole point of that scene with Celestia, to show that this was the culmination of all the episodes' lessons. I agree it could've been implemented better, but it's still clear what they meant.

 

Interesting point about Twilight becoming a princess instead of the next Starswirl. From one angle it's implying Twilight can't take on the male scientific/academic position like you said. Or it could be a 'why not both' situation, depending on whether or not you consider Twilight to already be her generation's Starswirl. It could go either way really, but I think it's telling that Twilight only fulfills the feminine princess role when she succeeds in the more masculine studious role. Twilight's rank may be a bland female stereotype, but she achieves it by succeeding in what appears to be a male-dominated or neutral field of study. So I think the show's saying it's alright to be a princess, as long as you prove yourself as a magician/scientist first. Which fits into the overall message of the show: that being girly/feminine doesn't mean you can't be smart/tough/strong as well, in fact it's more important.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Righteous Fury

[Commander_PonyShep 349]

 

 

I think this is the main problem here. It was strongly alluded to TCE, but it still seemed to happen rather quickly. Ironically this an idea Faust had from the very start.

 

I have to disagree with that 'rags to riches' interpretation. Twilight's definitely earned this. I think that was the whole point of that scene with Celestia, to show that this was the culmination of all the episodes' lessons. I agree it could've been implemented better, but it's still clear what they meant.

 

Interesting point about Twilight becoming a princess instead of the next Starswirl. From one angle it's implying Twilight can't take on the male scientific/academic position like you said. Or it could be a 'why not both' situation, depending on whether or not you consider Twilight to already be her generation's Starswirl. It could go either way really, but I think it's telling that Twilight only fulfills the feminine princess role when she succeeds in the more masculine studious role. Twilight's rank may be a bland female stereotype, but she achieves it by succeeding in what appears to be a male-dominated or neutral field of study. So I think the show's saying it's alright to be a princess, as long as you prove yourself as a magician/scientist first. Which fits into the overall message of the show: that being girly/feminine doesn't mean you can be smart/tough/strong as well, in fact it's more important.

 

At the part where you said "doesn't mean you can be", you should've made it "doesn't mean you can't be."  Just correcting a grammatical error.

 

Also, when you look at the title of "princess" in the context of the show, it's not as girly as Disney's usual interpretation of a princess. Rather than be portrayed as damsels-in-distress, princesses like Celestia, Luna, Cadence, and Twilight are often strong, charismatic, and wise leaders on the level of a more masculine kind of leader, like a U.S. President in our real world, or Prime in the context of Transformers.  That means as princess, Twilight can take all of that strength and charisma she developed from learning about friendship, and apply it to leading not only her friends, but also all of Equestria to a better future.

 

Technically, the show proved that the word "princess" doesn't always have to equal "weak and stupid."

[Righteous Fury 344]

 

 

Also, when you look at the title of "princess" in the context of the show, it's not as girly as Disney's usual interpretation of a princess. Rather than be portrayed as damsels-in-distress, princesses like Celestia, Luna, Cadence, and Twilight are often strong, charismatic, and wise leaders on the level of a more masculine kind of leader, like a U.S. President in our real world, or Prime in the context of Transformers.  That means as princess, Twilight can take all of that strength and charisma she developed from learning about friendship, and apply it to leading not only her friends, but also all of Equestria to a better future.   Technically, the show proved that the word "princess" doesn't always have to equal "weak and stupid."

 

You might know Faust originally had Celestia and Luna as queens. Which certainly implies more power than princess. So I think you're right, the princesses in the show have little in common with real world or Disney princesses, just as their ponies have little in common with ours.

[GenderIsAnIllusion 2,177]

^{My question for you is how exactly is twilight gaining wings, and new found responsibilities Sexist?....... Personally it seems as shes been empowered. At least they didn't turn her into a house wife or something like that}