Slightly altering the Banning System

[Nohbdy 4,108]

If I may, I'd like to add my two cents to this discussion.
 
A permanent ban is never something to be taken lightly. It's only after a string of serious offenses that users are banned. We only ban those who have made it abundantly clear that they will not maintain a positive presence within the community. The rules are, as one member stated, designed to promote a positive experience for as many members as possible. However, this "positive experience" cannot be maintained if we are to condone behavior contrary to this goal. Those who threaten to disrupt the experience for others will have disciplinary action--up to and including permanent suspension--taken against them.
 
The users who were banned in the past few weeks? They weren't banned for any isolated incidents. We gave them second chances. Many second chances, in fact. Prior to their bans, they were each warned repeatedly for unsavory behavior. A steadfast defiance of the rules tells us that a user is clearly unwilling to be a positive influence in the community. Moreover, those who continuously push the rules and toe the line will inevitably cross the line. Once that happens, the staff will have very little sympathy to bestow. A thousand points do not come easily. If you get there, then you probably screwed up big time, many times. 
 
The guy who was supposedly banned for disliking Feld0? There's way more to that story. He sent him and other staff members highly abusive PMs. He continually attempted to spam posts. When we disabled his ability to post, he sent messages, which basically talked shit about Feld0, to as many members as he could. Yes, Feld0 is an important figure in this community, but that's not why this user was banned. If he had done this to any other member, he would have been banned, too. 
 
And in fact, this did happen. One former member was recently revealed to have abused another member for months on end. The perpetraor spread lies specifically made to defame this member and soil his reputation. He attempted to get the victim banned by regularly sending (unsubstantiated) reports of offenses that he did not commit. This kind of behavior is both disgusting and absolutely unacceptable. It certainly doesn't help that the perpetrator was warned several times beforehand. 
 
Here's a little secret: when it comes to the vast majority of bans, the banned users play the victim, and aren't telling you the whole story. Yes, we have made mistakes before. We do our best to rectify them. For most cases, however, the staff know exactly what they're doing. Many members don't see what goes on behind the scenes, but we can. It's rarely pretty. 
 

I've been checking the Warning Points system and a case like Cyber Bullying is not listed as far as I noticed. Of course it is a very terrible thing to do and I would instantly try to resolve it as soon as possible because Bullying is the worst thing to do but let's say: The bully recognizes what he has done and apologizes and regrets, has eventually changed, shouldn't he get a second chance by then? As far as I heard about it, Cyber Bullying was registered as Permanent Ban so there is no 2nd chance included in there.

 
Cyberbullying is considered a serious form of abusive behavior, and is dealt with as such. Whether or not it's automatically a permanent ban depends on the severity of the issue. In this member's case, he would have pushed himself over the 1000-point limit even if we didn't aim for a permanent ban. Essentially, his ban was multiple abusive behavior warnings rolled into one, and then stacked on top of his existing points. 
 

I could get behind an appeals system of sorts, although I think it should be strict (to a degree) so that only those users who genuinely want to be a member of the community will follow through with the process.

We do have an appeal system in the form of moderation disputes. On a few occasions, members have been unbanned as a result. Word of warning, though: public drama has no positive influence on the appeal process. If anything, it will only hurt the appealing member's chances. 
 
Appeals may be sent to disputes@mlpforums.com.
 

It may interest you to know, however, that we are indeed working on improvements to our moderation system. While the stance on permanent bans remains unchanged, we have been experimenting with more personal approaches to moderation. We recognize that there are many flaws in the system, and much effort is being focused toward improving the moderation experience for the community. 

 

And with this post, I officially accept the fact that I'm utterly screwed for my final in a few hours 

[Twilight Sparkle ✨ 8,529]

Couple of things I want to point out:

 

I've been checking the Warning Points system and a case like Cyber Bullying is not listed as far as I noticed. Of course it is a very terrible thing to do and I would instantly try to resolve it as soon as possible because Bullying is the worst thing to do but let's say: The bully recognizes what he has done and apologizes and regrets, has eventually changed, shouldn't he get a second chance by then? As far as I heard about it, Cyber Bullying was registered as Permanent Ban so there is no 2nd chance included in there.

 

The community rules and the FAQ are intentionally designed to avoid enumerating an exhaustive list of possible offenses that will ultimately be too long for anyone to read through or stay aware at all times. "What I did isn't forbidden by the rules!" never has and never will be accepted as an excuse for behaviour that hurts the community. The system exists to streamline the moderation process, not enslave forum staff to it.

 

Contrary to popular belief, the rules are not intended to forge a hivemind of obedient zombies and brutally mutilate non-conformists; they're designed to nurture an environment in which people act as rational human beings and are accountable for their actions, good and bad. Your warnings are "forgiven" at a regular weekly rate, and the point values are balanced so as to prevent any one "misstep" from sending you out the door. If it is clear beyond any doubt that someone is not making missteps, but is well and truly up to no good, the staff will act in the best interests of the community. These cases are exceptional; the staff do not conspire to remove people's personal friends from the community. That would honestly be sickening if it were the case. 

 

Now, with all that said, I don't think the system is perfect. It certainly works, but some good points have been brought up here and elsewhere. Though our core values as a community remain sound and are unlikely to change, the system in its current form sometimes instills more resent than reform when it is used to administer what should amount to a minor slap on the wrist. Internal discussions about this are ongoing, and it is something the moderation staff are aware of.

 

 

Hey we're all friends here aren't we? I'm sure if you ask a high member of staff politely and tell them the whole situation up to now then maybe they could give the banned ponies we are talking about a second chance.

 

Such a channel exists. If someone has been moderated, suspended, or banned, they can reach the administration directly with an email to disputes@mlpforums.com and state their case.

 

It should be noted, however, that you can only file disputes for actions taken against you. You can't file appeals for your friends, and they can't file one for you. Moreover, filing an appeal will only result in the overturning of an action if it was actually determined to have been in error. The dispute system is there to give the forum staff a chance to recognize and undo any mistakes they make (it can happen; staff are humans, too), not a place to talk an admin into excepting you from the consequences of your actions.

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,674]

Well those were some pretty encouraging posts above. Good to know that the staff understand the scope and responsibilities of their positions and take it seriously.

 

 

 

When people have a grudge against certain staff, they will only see things their way, and when other staff attempt to help settle the issue, it will make them feel like they are being backed into a corner which creates an even bigger problem. Sometimes, you just can't help them, they set themselves on a path to a ban and moderators don't have the time to nurse people back into good understanding when they have the other 18000 members already here. 

Well, that is a problem, certainly. Though I am left wondering how such users are approached. I'll take your word for it that such users tend to respond in that manner but what I'd like to know is what are the things that happen that lead to such an outcome as I might be able to give an explanation on why the dominoes fell the way they did as well as how a better result may have been attained. I'm not really saying that you should do that, what I'm really trying to say that it's a very delicate process and that I have some experience in talking with troubled people myself.

 

Alright, now I'm going to give an explanation on how I go about doing this. By that I'm saying that this is strictly about how it's been working for me.

Keep in mind what this is all about; being a caregiver to the troubled person. In my eyes, being a caregiver is kinda like a leadership position in itself and I see it as being for the long haul. 

It starts with your posture and by that I mean implicit communication. The fact that all communication happens through text here is a double-edged sword. On one hand, I have more control of the wording and the phrasing but I can't be sure about my "tone" from the perspective of the other person. What I want to implicitly communicate is something like this; "hey there, I know what kind of problem you have and I am your best bet!" In effect, I'm kinda making myself out to be the one the other person looks up to. Like a child-to-parent kind of way. This implies two things; 1) shining a badge isn't going to cut it and 2) forming a bond or attachment to the other person becomes necessary. When the other person looks up to me, it means that he or she trusts me and accepts my leadership to some degree depending on how strongly I am being looked up to by that person. When this is the case, I can begin to talk to the other person about more personal subjects. Of course, it's also important that I provide positive guidance while I'm at it. This is something I HAVE to be genuine about. This is NOT something that can be forced! Can't emphasize that enough... Oh and being affectionate to the other person also helps. Apply according to the mutual bond shared.

 

Before you think I've been getting off-track here, let me tell you about what this does to the other person as I do this as previously, I've only been describing what I've been doing.

For one, the other person tends to feel more tranquilized as one feels protected at an emotional level. To know there's someone there who will always listen when you feel ignored, someone who will hold you when you feel dejected, someone who will provide warmth when everything feels so cold and someone who will provide you company when you feel all alone... it makes you feel more comfortable in the world. Most importantly, it makes you feel like you don't have to fend for yourself all the time because the feeling that you are completely on your own is quite alarming and that feeling of alarm, in turn, tends to make people more aggressive. By doing what I've described, you can tranquilize someone close to their very core and believe me that the person will be very grateful for it. 

 

Another thing I need to let you know before closing is that while this is a long-term endeavor, there comes a time when the other person can start to take care of themselves again. That usually happens when the worst of their troubles have been put to rest.

 

So yeah, that's what I have been doing. As for what the staff can take from this, yeah, I would agree that it is indeed extremely labor-intensive (kinda depends on the person being taken care of) but... looking at how well the MLP Forums staff is organized today, I doubt it happened overnight. Even that was a whole process and learning curve unto itself, wasn't it?

 

The reason why I think this would be, in this form anyway, incredibly difficult to execute is that it may require a better understanding of topics such as parenting and human nature. Everything I'm doing is the result of over a year of researching said topics......

Edited December 16, 2013 by SunBurn

[)O( Scarlet )O( 1,259]

I for one like and appreciate the system the way that it is now, and agree with pretty much everything everyone else has said. I mean I've gotten a few warnings myself, and for mostly little things, but I've never argued about them or dulled, I saw them as a wake up call and a chance to see what I did wrong and better myself. While it is up to the staff to ensure we have a safe and enjoyable time on here, I believe it is up to us, the users/members to make it as safe and enjoyable for everyone, sure we may have different opinions on certain things, but that is no reason to break the rules. How about we help make it a safe and enjoyabl place to visit. Not to mention, it would make it easier for the staff to do their jobs, if we just stop and think about how our words and actions effect others...

 

I hope that made sense...