Villains, Antagonists, and redemption/change

[Rainblow H. Ash 5,091]

@...

 

I disagree that Sombra was worst than Chrysalis. Both of them want to rule and enslave ponies, but for different reasons. Sombra does it because he wants them to mine crystals for him to feed his... crystal lust, or whatever, and Chyraslis wants to cocoon and drain ponies of their love, even going so far as to replace a pony and rip apart her wedding and split her apart from her true love.

 

To me, both of these beings are very evil. Just because one is "more" evil in your eyes doesn't make a difference. Some would argue that murder is more evil than torture, but they're both evil and they both deserve to be despised.

 

 

I just don't like to excuse Chrysalis's behavior is all. If it is an ego problem, then that's one serious ego problem that she needs to solve since it led to her trying to conquer an entire species and eat their love for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. A truce would be nice, and Chrysalis being redeemed isn't something I'm against, but I am against making excuses for evil actions that she herself did, even if it was in the name of feeding her people.

[Jeric 46,890]

I didn't understand a thing here. What do you mean?

I was just saying that people in the linked thread probably know the difference between a villain and an antagonist, but lumped the two together because it felt more natural to do so.

[IridscentNionios 1,422]

@, Neither am i but as we talked about earlier with the other dude this might just be in her nature. So while it partially can be excused it can't be completely excused. 

I am just thinking "Why the fuck not?" why couldn't they just choose her over Discord? He tried to enslave ponies too right? Or downright make their lifes miserable as his puppets aka enslavement... so why is he so special? That's my point... he ISN'T! It's just a choice Hasbro did out of the random because they thought they could use his character in the future and hell even his own voice actor didn't want him reformed. There... done...

Thing is it doesn't matter if Chrysalis would make a better redeemed villain than Discord... if Hasbro finds ways for her to return, or to be good she will return and be good and the fans are just gonna have to deal with this. 

I was just saying that people in the linked thread probably know the difference between a villain and an antagonist, but lumped the two together because it felt more natural to do so.

That's exactly what i don't like....

[The Crimson Cross 7,533]

Okay everypony is suddenly coming out saying that Chrysalis could be turned good and everything and how she really isn't evil because she and her kind need to eat love just to survive...

 

But she clearly is pretty darn evil. She tore apart Shining Armor from his loved ones, obviously wants to rule Equestria, loves to belittle others, and takes pleasure in the pain of others. There's a difference between getting food and being cruel to your food, after all.

 

We all would oppose a hunter who tortures animals before eating them, so we should also oppose Chrysalis as that is just what she's doing, in addition to wanting to rule over her food source and coccoon them up and replace all of them with her Changelings.

 

She's pretty evil. Just because in the comics there's an alternate universe where the villains are "good" doesn't mean that the real Chrysalis or Sombra are anything but cold-hearted evil.

 

I'm pretty sure Chrysalis' evil maniacal laughter was a dead giveaway 

There was some serious mature ideas in "A Canterlot Wedding".

[IridscentNionios 1,422]

@,That's the problem... if you ask me with Chrysalis they're trying too hard. Too hard is in wanting to make sure nobody gives her a chance for redemption.

Edited May 22, 2014 by nioniosbbbb

[Jeric 46,890]

Redemption arcs can be used effectively for someone who is portrayed as evil. In film you have Darth Vader. Here is a guy who can murder women and children, attack his pregnant wife, torture, stand idly by as millions are destroyed, and a penchant for killing his loyal officers. Yet he was redeemed.

 

In literature I can't throw a cat without hitting a redemption tale. Crime and Punishment's character of Raskolnikoff is one that deftly explores the concept after he murders a woman out of greed.

 

Les Miserables is another, but tackles the theme by constantly challenging the once innocent protagonist to redeem himself AFTER he feels he was redeemed.

 

The common thread is that they are usually sympathetic characters who failed at a moral choice, usually of their own making.

 

Bringing thus back to Pony, Chrysalis can be redeemed, provided some additional backstory and development is done. I would prefer a more uneasy complex truce over a Discordian change. In other words she isn't too evil to have a redemptive arc.

 

Gilda should not be made to be more sympathetic since it pisses on a perfectly good lesson in her only appearance. But those are personal tastes ... and she can likewise be redeemed. Gilda is a bitch, but not evil. Same for Lightning Dust. Note that both Rainbows foils shared similar characteristics ... but were emphasized. Would softening these ruin that?

 

Sombra on the other hand can't be turned. Sombra was not allowed any real persona to allow a conversion of any sort. You can't redeem Sauron for similar reasons. The audience was not given much to relate or identify with.

[Darker 1,352]

Tirek in G1 was supposed to be an archetype of Satan, to be just pure evil. He's a true villain. The others might not be evil at 100%, but Tirek absolutely is.