Jump to content
  • entries
    47
  • comments
    105
  • views
    8,734

Lil Pip

817 views

I am an ex-Christian. When I was a Christian I was engaged by wanting to avoid going to hell in any way I could so I did research and eventually found out it was false, but my point is I'm not ignorant on religion. I also grew up with some final fantasy, and it was incredibly engaging and confusing but motivating and sorta inspiring.

 

But yesterday I recognized more similarity between fiction and religion. Namely the Abrahamic religion is so popular its essentially a no contest, and that means its doing something right other religions are not. Final Fantasy was a best seller so it too was doing something right, and recently I was looking up theory sorta final fantasy videos then I realized, the greater the cost to not adventure in Final Fantasy, is the greater the motivator to adventure. I realized religion is similar, the threat of eternal hell, an apocalypse, muddled history and conflicting messages. Jenova of ff7 was also confusing, being controlled through Sephiroth to take on his form, and you are actually chasing Jenova the majority of the time. And yes Jenova sounds alot like Jehova. But then how about mentioning the epic of Gilgamesh and Gilgamesh's role in the final fantasy world.

 

Anyways. I come to the accurate conclusion that the greater the cost, the more willingness to be invested. And what greater cost is there really? This could be incredibly useful for fictional writing. If we look to tv shows their stakes are high if they are popular. Or at least are acted as if they are high. Like it could be a lower stake but presented more dramatically or meaningfully.

 

Its due to value, you threaten everything a person is or can have, then it motivates them to charge ahead. But what motivation is it? In a story that is popular its the force behind communicating about it like a fanboy, discussing it after because you feel motivated by it. Sort of like those who understand the risk and consequence of hell better who are Christian tend to try educating themselves more to see what is the way to ensure heaven over hell (and then the bible says only 144,000 can go to heaven lol and being the logical person you are you realize the odds are basically extremely low so you need to find out even more and cannot rely on assuming your god has your back. Eventually there are things in the bible that contradict reality and itself enough so one day a flood of realization occurs after one new fact then you are like desensitized briefly cathartic and numb and can't think due to being stunned, that it was really so obviously fake in hind-sight.)

 

So anyways, sorry but this is a blog I'm allowed to get personal. Anyways I think its a great theory for story writing, even if its basic in a way. Its basically like saying certain shows or forms of media or stories thrill us due to the subconscious risk we associate with it, and because it motivates us it seems fun. But something feels off about it, that's where final fantasy throws in a Sephiroth being a loony so you feel off right when you should, it seems more natural even.

 

There is a saying about logical studies that is something like, if you are confused it means you heard something that doesn't match up with what you currently believe. Religious bypass that with faith to ensure their long term confusion and doubt are buffered against.

 

But another thing they have in common is mystery and limited information. The only source of information in the story you get is through the conflict, like in religion. It sorta sets up a batman and joker complex, you rely on the enemy for something. It might even be similar to Stockholm syndrome.

 

And thing is, with so many other religions, or at the time the idea of heaven and hell were made Christianity wasn't entirely in power, so what do they do is make you feel important because you don't feel empowered. Its your source of power, this psychologically forces your new neurons and brain expenditure to be filtered through that first. Its a type of conditioning. Its exactly like gratitude to a hero. You want to see if you can support their cause. And the heaven vs hell thing applies even more because if you are a minority in the world you can be tricked into thinking you are the one of the few elite. This is an appeal to egotism, just like playing hero in a story is an appeal to egotism. Just like being a martyr can be satisfactory because it still says you were important and persecuted and if anything is a confirmation bias proving you were better than them.

 

Its a really anti-social mindset if you look at it in one way. 'Them'. This just means psychologically speaking your neurons associate pain with 'them' which increases aggressive and antisocial attitudes. This is why in the bible it says the world is evil, that's why in ff7 the world is practically run by shinra. It makes you hate reality, doubt humanity irrationally. You vs the world.

 

That's what fervor is. And I recognize fanboying is rather similar. They can defend their fandom to the death and are eternally hyped.

 

Heroes in stories are tremendously popular, and also an aspect of alot of modern and pre-modern religions. Like Celtic religions had alot of bloodshed and battles and heroism, then there was complex plot for Rome and Greece religions because of how many mixed cultures it was. Even final fantasy is western due to Japan practicing a combination of religions including some Christianity Shintoism Buddhism and I forget the fourth.

 

And there is a game theory on how ff is anti-organized-religion but pro spiritual, and I can def see that just look at half the stuff Aerith says then Shinra is a corrupt organization in power. Look at the history of the catholic church, its literally impossible the rulers actually believed what they were saying, AND they had more information which implies they knew a god didn't exist the whole time which is why they feel free to be hypocrites at the top levels. Because they both know more, and decide that means god isn't real, and continue telling you to believe, and they built the Vatican off of their greed and to this day are eating til they are fat. They aren't monk-like or humble, they are disgusting and the most popular organized religion of the world yet. And they force others to submit to fear more often because they are more aware of how one can feel low, to be forced to serve through them. Like showing submission in their churches asking to be forgived in their churches already psychologically causes an inferiority complex similar to master slave relationships. Please god forgive me [or eternal torture] please don't [send me to hell] I'm sorry for everything [you deserve pity, feel graced I will allow you to be forgiven then serve me more in the future due to gratitude that I won't eternally torture you today].

 

Then in final fantasy 7 you feel powerless and such. At one point Sephiroth gives you a materia by throwing it at you with force and then your character can barely stand up (Cloud) then you take the materia after anyways. And Sephiroth is motivated by being the chosen one (just like in Christianity you are the chosen line of people, reminds me of the teacher's pet sorta deal).

 

Idk I guess I said it all already and am half rambling due to lack of feeling like a strong conclusion occurred. Post your thoughts below.

3 Comments


Recommended Comments

As someone who took an introductory course on the History of Western Civilization, I feel that I should clarify a few points that you made.

 

Each Abrahamic religion gained power and influence due to reasons specific to it.  For the first iteration, Judaism, it loosely translates to "The Way of Life of the Jewish People".  The Old Testament explains more than just what their religion is about, it also describes the way society is structured, what the social hierarchy is, what the laws are, etc.  From this, scholars are able to get a glimpse into what ancient Israelite society looked like.  I saw you mentioned Gilgamesh, and it's funny you bring that up.  Aside from the Great Flood that was taken from the epic, the Old Testament also seemed to have taken inspiration from Sargon of Akkad, who claimed that he had been found in a basket of reeds on the banks of the Tigris.

 

Christianity, on the other hand, had its own appeal amongst Roman citizens and those colonized by them.  For those who had been colonized, it gave them a reason to stand up to the establishment, to give witness to Jesus' martyrdom, and refuse to accept the power of the Roman state.  Even amongst the Romans, themselves, it found a following amongst women and the poor, who found themselves at the bottom of the ladder in their society and saw the accepting nature of the Christians as a way to be something more.  Of course, this was all reversed once Emperor Theodosius I made Christianity the official religion of the Empire, but when it was still an underground cult that was being relentlessly persecuted by the Pagan authorities, it held an allure.

 

As for your talk of Heaven and Hell motivating people to accept the word of God, well of course.  Why else should people worship you if they have no reason to?  How do you convince someone to shirk the traditions of his/her forefathers without making the claim that his old ways are wrong and your new ways are right?

Link to comment
Hazard Time, on 16 Aug 2016 - 10:34 PM, said:

As someone who took an introductory course on the History of Western Civilization, I feel that I should clarify a few points that you made.

 

Each Abrahamic religion gained power and influence due to reasons specific to it.  For the first iteration, Judaism, it loosely translates to "The Way of Life of the Jewish People".  The Old Testament explains more than just what their religion is about, it also describes the way society is structured, what the social hierarchy is, what the laws are, etc.  From this, scholars are able to get a glimpse into what ancient Israelite society looked like.  I saw you mentioned Gilgamesh, and it's funny you bring that up.  Aside from the Great Flood that was taken from the epic, the Old Testament also seemed to have taken inspiration from Sargon of Akkad, who claimed that he had been found in a basket of reeds on the banks of the Tigris.

 

Christianity, on the other hand, had its own appeal amongst Roman citizens and those colonized by them.  For those who had been colonized, it gave them a reason to stand up to the establishment, to give witness to Jesus' martyrdom, and refuse to accept the power of the Roman state.  Even amongst the Romans, themselves, it found a following amongst women and the poor, who found themselves at the bottom of the ladder in their society and saw the accepting nature of the Christians as a way to be something more.  Of course, this was all reversed once Emperor Theodosius I made Christianity the official religion of the Empire, but when it was still an underground cult that was being relentlessly persecuted by the Pagan authorities, it held an allure.

 

As for your talk of Heaven and Hell motivating people to accept the word of God, well of course.  Why else should people worship you if they have no reason to?  How do you convince someone to shirk the traditions of his/her forefathers without making the claim that his old ways are wrong and your new ways are right?

 

Hm I'm glad whom chose to respond is informed. And yeah I know how it happened wasn't unintelligent or anything. Just I think ignorance is a large problem these days so it comes to my mind alot lately as its a source of quite some fallacies, or motivator for some as well/rather.

 

So why did Nero think Christianity was evil? Was it just disrupting his order, or were they like executing people who didn't obey Sabbath or something, or are you unaware of what exactly it was that prompted Nero to act as he did?

 

And for the audience, Nero is '666' spelled from I think it was Hebrew's alpha-numerical system? Or roman? Anyways scholars found the book of revelations was essentially written in code to warn of Rome's persecution of them at the time.

Link to comment

Hm I'm glad whom chose to respond is informed. And yeah I know how it happened wasn't unintelligent or anything. Just I think ignorance is a large problem these days so it comes to my mind alot lately as its a source of quite some fallacies, or motivator for some as well/rather.

 

So why did Nero think Christianity was evil? Was it just disrupting his order, or were they like executing people who didn't obey Sabbath or something, or are you unaware of what exactly it was that prompted Nero to act as he did?

 

And for the audience, Nero is '666' spelled from I think it was Hebrew's alpha-numerical system? Or roman? Anyways scholars found the book of revelations was essentially written in code to warn of Rome's persecution of them at the time.

 

When Christianity first began popping up, the Romans had no idea what to do with it.  Roman culture revolved heavily around the idea of mos maiorum, or "Ways of the Ancestors".  In this way, one could consider them to have made an ideology out of cultural conservatism, looking up to that which was old and steeped in tradition as righteous.  As such, the Romans had a considerable respect for the Jews of Judea, and even after they were reduced to a colony under the direct control of Rome, the Romans never meddled with their way of life in the way the Greek Seleucids did (Banning the Torah, outlawing circumcisions, desecrating the temple of Jerusalem by sacrificing swine to Zeus, etc).

 

As such, when Christian communities appeared throughout the modern day Levant, North Africa, and Turkey, the Roman authorities had no respect for their rites or traditions.  In fact, up to that point, there hadn't been a precedent in Roman law that dictated how entirely new religions would be treated.  However, if there was one thing about Christianity the Romans disliked, it was the sort of "civil disobedience" it demanded.  For example, Christians refused to make sacrifices before the statues of the Roman emperors, and when threatened with torture and execution, they gladly accepted it with open arms.

 

In case it wasn't abundantly clear, despite their claims of being civilized folk, Roman culture was founded on violence and bloodshed.  The various provinces and colonies of the empire were kept in line by fear, as anyone who openly declared rebellion against them could expect to be tortured and executed in a public manner if they allowed themselves to be captured.  What Christianity encouraged, a desire to bear witness to the martyrdom of Jesus Christ, challenged Roman authority, and that was something they could not allow.  As such, the persecution of Christians devolved into a witch hunt as people turned on their neighbors, denouncing them to the authorities who simply asked them nicely if they were Christian.  If they said no and promised to make an offering to the emperor, they were let go, as very few Christians in those days would denounce their faith or make sacrifices to the emperor.

 

However, the more the Romans persecuted the Christians, the larger their population grew.  Eventually, some Christian theologists hatched the brilliant idea to try and grant their movement legitimacy and even protection under mos maiorum.  How did they hope to do this?  By co-opting Jewish heritage of course!  They opened up the Old Testament, pointed to all the passages that referred to the Hebrew people, and said, "Look!  Does it say anywhere in here that the Hebrews were Jews?  Of course not!  They were Christians!  You've been persecuting the wrong guys!"

 

This claim was met with mixed results, to say the least.  Still, it was just one of several events that would later widen the schism between Jews and Christians, culminating in almost two millennia of persecution and oppression.

  • Brohoof 1
Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Join the herd!

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...