This is just my most recent response, and it goes in detail. To enlighten as to the context, he considers himself an intellectual christian, who knows the bible may as well be wrong give or take, and I called him stupid a few comments ago and he insisted on addressing it. Here is my response.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is how I see religion. People came up with excuses and culture to combat disbelief in it over time, and it gets more complicated over time and is adapted into culture. Because it seems normal to make excuses, and everyone starts making their own when other people have faith dilemmas it may get shared by people who are more confident in their use of faith and might try blogging about it or etc. So it gets spread through culture. Then it gets more complex each generation, especially as knowledge against what they believe increases so they need to come up with more logic bypasses. Different people accept different logical bypasses based on their own upbringing, experiences, knowledge etc. Like a more scientific minded person would rationalize it through cherry picking science or re-interpreting stuff from the bible that science could support etc.
And kids can be gullible, as studies can show especially if raised religiously/superstitiously/spiritually. So those kids ask their parents questions parents give them these explanations handed down and evolved throughout the generations.
The kid could be smart and still believe it yeah. But there are still studies suggesting gullibility is tied to comprehension of the world, and how likely you are to get scammed and the like, or believe propaganda etc. Smart kids ask more questions, based on genes upbringing health socioeconomic status etc. So the smart ones have a chance to disbelief, which triggers cognitive dissonance, or they can come up with an explanation to solve the problem that sounds somewhat reasonable. Most kids are not taught logic growing up, or to find evidence for everything they believe or think. But religion does hold people back more, judging from studies, and that half the time psychological defense mechanisms extend to the belief system which ends up more often producing logical fallacies in its defense. That is how it holds people back from being more intelligent. It does require intelligence or time to make more sound defenses, but making defenses in itself is not in favor of new information. Its at the expense of new information, and what we can learn is vast, to habitually cut off chunks of it from our thoughts can be negligent and lead to a less whole understanding of the world. Also using the excuse of god did this or that stunts people's intellectual growth, and they view things as magical or superstitious. Its like every excuse in defense of an old belief is turning off light to not see what lies in the dark that causes the dissonance. This also may be why those who are superstitious get more nightmares studies suggest. Its hiding, which is a fear response, plus something 'in the dark' metaphorically = nightmares and fear of the dark. Or did you ever get a dream where you demolished a demon or anything like that in a dark room where you were hiding? I have. It was when I was a christian, I don't get dreams like that at all anymore. Granted that one is partially due to a game I have played, but either way my mind came up with it. Getting off-topic nearly, lemme see.

 

Basically, with less light you can understand less. And getting into bad habits leads to a reductionist conservative sorta behavior which can lead to unhealthy lifestyle choices, like removing hobbies instead of gaining more. For those who read articles from say the Jehovah's witnesses saying masturbation is a sin. Thats abuse, thats psychological abuse. And people who avoid hell will cut ties to anything new, hence conservative and reductionist. Paranoid even.

 

But I guess there are some exceptions, like those who divide science and god whilst believing in science. I don't have any specific examples to try and show fallacies involved in that.

 

Also, long story short, religion causes poverty for various reasons. Organized religion, and non-organized religion promotes organized religion in the future as well. Sort of how 'good' christians formed different denominations, then one of those denominations formed the WBC off of theirs. You don't have to do 'bad' for bad to be caused directly from what you do, and if you decide technically its not immediately immoral to defend yourself thats still a defense, a possible psychological defense mechanism. You need evidence why yours is different, which its likely not, the more intelligent wouldn't dismiss the idea but would cherry pick ideas and memories from their mind or science for why I must be wrong, without even testing it or examining it to see why I am right first.

 

Atheists rarely convert out of atheism compared to theists converting to another theism. I think its because teaching logic makes it apparent when something is wrong and not worth the time on.

 

So when I see you I see someone who is holding onto something sentimental despite logic suggesting otherwise for what to do in relation to it. Like, post-poning. Procrastinating. By all means I am able to be proven wrong, I don't think very black and white, only if people assert with no explanation or evidence repeatedly or pull shit outta their ass.

 

You have been better than most. But idk if I can get you to see what I do. For all I know you have a room in your noggin still in the dark so to say.

 

But I also lack information to properly conclude.

 

And yes religion can have benefits. Community. Immediate comfort sometimes.

 

But at what cost? Three generations from now you could've set things in motion enough for some intelligent person to be more religious instead of atheistic, then that could delay social progress from some law getting passed. Its not as paranoid as it sounds because of statistics though. If 34 people have a 3% chance their faith will cause someone who would convert to a more logical mindset of atheism, does not thats almost a guaranteed less logical individual. Then you do the math for all the theists like you, and it could be like 2,000 rational atheists less. Which across a certain amount of time could cause say a local town or several to get a little more locally religious, or prevent logical advances like not teaching creationism in schools. Then also, further, because the more intelligent are prone to it first, they might try leading right, they could try becoming a politician, for the opposite side, and that could cause 3-4 laws to change against logic, for poverty, for crime, against education.

 

And for instance, some events like a planet capable of supporting life is something like one in 20k either solar systems or planets, forget might be the wrong number too but it barely matters. When you factor in billions of other planets this means there is almost certainly life out there aside from just our planet. Similarly, theism gives rise to extremism like the WBC.

 

As long as a book contains extremism and preaches for it, even if its only a .0001% chance of it happening, over enough time and individuals it becomes a certainty.

 

You can look it up too, religious communities more often have abuse than non-religious ones, and serial killers have more abuse than normal people in childhood. And community abuses are underreported some studies say. Ever try and see how much people are logical atheists and serial killers? Basically none, but I was trying to find a demographic study on them and couldn't find any, instead came across interviews and studies on psychology. They tend to have prefrontal cortex damage, which is basically the more logical part of the brain. The further back the more instinct and emotion you get because its more primitive and less complex, thus its faster and easier to get into.

 

Which takes us back to why most uneducated are religious, its emotional support at face value. People would be grateful for that and then loyal and defend it. Sort of like cult mentality, I recommend looking up sargon of akkad's video on cult mentality.

 

I can go on and on, Like, why do you think the bible mentions the shearing metaphor for taxation repeatedly, and shepherds? Its because they wanted to manipulate humans like sheep. They wanted them to obey.

 

Ever wonder hm, why did god change his mind and not want to kill the samarians and the roman empire? He was jealous, then suddenly preaches peace. Well turns out, those were times when christianity was not the dominant group.

 

In other words, oh we slaughter villages, excuse it as they were evil we were doing the world a favor, and to instill fear and show their might. Which is why some of those cities were never destroyed but claimed to be, they wanted to look tough right. And even god wanted to look tough apparently, so they find some inane drinking water from a river reason to divide their forces, then slaughter a village without resistance, because they were probably unarmed, then they force the women into marriage, murder their kids, and praise their jealous god.

 

Then fast forward, samaria, rome. Preaching peace? I figure, if humans existed, and not a god, then why would humans do that? Because their group size was inferior, at a disadvantage, smaller, etc.

 

That is when they preached peace. Fast forward. What happens when they are in power? The catholic church being very christian and treating people like property, serfdom being a thing and killing their own people to 'shepherd' them with fear. And they do crusades.

 

I don't see a inconsistency, because its how a war monger would behave, not a god. If it were god he would've been petty and jealous and displayed his might, not on a helpless village he calls evil, but against a more obviously formidable foe.

 

The bible is a load of crap, it has math errors, is a flat earth book, its fucking stupid as all hell. This is why I cannot accept christians at some level who try to say oh well I am a logical christian I am not like the rest. Well your family is like the rest, your future kids will be, your grandkids will be, and they will make another WBC, and believe less intellectually than you. They have different interests.

 

Shit like that. This is why I don't accept anything less, unless you at least have a reason that covers in detail more than what I know. Which you haven't done yet. And I don't see how it can be done, because if I had a book talking that much shit, believing any of it is like taking Mein Kampf and crossing off all the bad parts, and keeping the rest and denying how shit it is. Christianity is basically worshipping hitler, and claiming he is fucking buddha. And thats where they got the martyrdom idea from, the buddhists, the flowering religions which was older than christianity. Noah's ark isn't even original, the epic of gilgamesh.

 

The only way I can respect the bible is how much it adheres incidentally to the Art of War. Deception, discipline, strategy, in times of war for solidarity and success. Including in-group deception. Everything else, anything at face value, is entire horse shit.

 

And you come along saying, I believe in Hitler, but not the Mein Kampf, but yes the Hitler associated with Mein Kampf. Thats how stupid it seems to me.