Truffles

1 minute ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

*sigh* Fine! Sorry for sounding angry!

I'm just sick of people focusing on the negative like this Damsel in Distress moment instead of the positive like the lesson of Hope in that awesome middle part!

I hope you understand my view.

I do, I saw your 10/10 comment. It's an OK episode for me. I liked the message and I like the legend. I guess that one part was so egregious it ruined the end for me. (Though Caballeron conveniently walking through the middle of town with the stolen goods didn't help, either. It was another of those "rough spots" in the story that expose the contrivances required to write fiction.) Even now, instead of the message all I can think about is, "WTF, Rainbow?!?" =|

It wasn't so much about her being a "damsel in distress" as it was a totally OOC moment for her - OOC right down to her core beliefs. If they had done something like explain that the whole town has a magic field around it that prevents pegasi from flying and RD was in real danger, it would have gone a long way to sustaining the believability, even if she was still pretty much a damsel in distress. Again, it's another contrivance but writing good fiction relies on trying to keep them hidden from the audience.

Just now, RulesofRarity said:

Oh so it wasn't leaked? 

Apparently someone at Hasbro accidentally uploaded this episode to their pay YouTube channel instead of "To Change a Changeling." I seem to recall this episode and Saturday's being swapped at the last minute in the schedule. If that's the case, then I could see how the mistake could have been made if the uploader guy didn't have the latest info.

19 minutes ago, Jeric said:

And the fact that she was yards away from Daring and Pinkie ... 

Y'know, since both you and @Whompy Whomperson brought it up, I didn't even realize how close AK and Pinkie were to that situation unfolding because I was so taken aback by Rainbow not putting up any resistance. I give that part a bit of a pass, however, because the two of them didn't seem to be paying attention since Pinkie turned away to stop AK from running off. But I agree AK at least should have been able to catch up and help stop the kidnapping. She apparently forgot she could fly, too. Unless AK's alter-ego is supposed to be an Earth pony?

3 minutes ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

@Truffles @Jeric

Rainbow was so saddened by the fact that her actions made the situation worse for Daring that she just simply forgotten to fly away. It can happen to anyone.

Dash wasn't an idiot. The villain just took advantage of crushing our heroes' spirit and captured her when her guard was done. In my opinion, it makes Dash more identifiable.

I can't buy that. Once she knew who the "poor villager" really was, she got angry and was no longer sad. Furthermore, the story all began with her trying to fix Do's reputation - a huge task to accomplish. She was still willing to defend her idol and was upbeat, even with that knowledge. I don't see how Caballeron revealing the whole evil plot would cause her to give in. If anything, she would have been even more determined to take him on.

Not too bad of an episode, I'll say more after it airs properly. Rainbow and Pinkie pairings still work out great. A few rough spots during the second half. The legend of Sonambula was just as good as Mistmane's.

My reaction however to Rainbow getting captured without a fight?

I mean how could she forget to fly? I never thought I'd see the day Rainbow Dash would give up so easily to bunch of grounded Earth ponies! At least throw a few kicks at them before getting captured. That one scene really bugged me in an otherwise decent episode. 

1 hour ago, Jeric said:

What I like is that they showed this fairly early on, and Thorax was keenly aware of this fact. In a lesser approach this would have been revealed late in the episode in a 'talk it out' scene.

The better episodes seem to be more successful at this. I felt the same way about "Equestria Games" in that one of the best things it did was not let Spike go on for more than a minute thinking he had somehow lit the fire with his mind. The plot could move on and get to the real conflict.

1 hour ago, Jeric said:

Pharynx is endearing to me because that sense of being left behind and having your identity and purpose threatened can push someone into a dark place, but throughout the episode he was depicted as more than a one-note soldier/warrior type who was sensitive to the needs of the hive and how others felt about him

We can generalize his plight even further to not just that of a warrior looking for a purpose, but anyone who, either due to technology or culture, has been left behind from the rest of society.

MLP already visited this back in "TSSCE6K," and one could envision Pharynx as a version of Applejack who lost the contest to Flim and Flam and became bitter as mass-produced fruit products put her and many other farmers out of business. However that theme is executed better here, IMO. There's far less contrivance in the characterization of the new changelings and Pharynx compared to Flim & Flam and the Apple family.

25 minutes ago, Ryanmahaffe said:

What we know is that Pharynx had pride in his previous position in the hive and he preferred it, technically that is all we need in the episode, but there are many possibilities about other reasons he thought the hive was better back before the great coloring book transformation.

I can understand Pharynx's position. Whether or not Chrysalis was feeding her most trusted warriors more love likely didn't matter. In the end, having pride in the job he was doing was more important than being hungry.

It's even shown in the episode how useless he feels in the new order and that is probably the biggest reason he wanted to go back to the old ways.

2 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Pharynx couldn't have skimmed love off the other changelings before they transformed, however, so surely he'd realize something is different. 

I misinterpreted your original comment. I see now you were referring to how things were under Chrysalis. I'll have to see the episode again, so you may have a good point there. My inclination is to say he liked everything about the old ways other than the starving.

Or maybe pony love just tastes better than changeling love and starving for the chance to suck off them was worth the pain? 

51 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I was under the impression that the changelings chose to share love because they were always nearly starving and were desperate for any alternative, so why would Pharynx prefer the old way? That's another thing which I found unconvincing. 

My guess is Thorax was letting his brother skim some of the excess love off of him and the rest of the hive so he wasn't starving. if they were as enlightened as they say they are, I would think they wouldn't mind. (Though they did seem to mind his negative attitude.)

1 hour ago, Ganondox said:

This sentence needs to be put and life support and reconstructed, because I still can't parse what you were attempting to say. I assume it's supposed to say "she wasn't as bad in "All Bottled Up" as she is here", but I'm still not sure. 

That bad, huh?  It seems readable to me, but then again I know what I mean to say. I guess it's a side-effect of reading messages all day long. My brain is fried. =P

But you surmised correctly - I liked her better in "ABU", but that isn't saying much because she exhibits many of the same annoyances there that I didn't like in "To Change a Changeling."

2 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

Also have to wonder how much a threat to the hive the mole monster actually was; prior to their glitterbug conversion, the changelings apparently had a rather negative effect on the vegetation around their hive, and I don't really see what significant use they have for it now. If the mole monster was largely interested in the vegetation, it may well have simply eaten the better growing areas then moved on to somewhere where there were more - it must take a fair bit of vegetation to keep a creature that large fed, and you would presume mole monsters that have lived to reproduce in the past are the ones that have learned to avoid changeling hives whenever possible.

In general, Pharynx is not wrong - the Hive needs to be able to defend itself, and even against elements that are intelligent enough to talk past grievances out with, will probably need to negotiate from a position of defensive strength - but I suspect this particular threat is more of a nuisance...

 

Indeed, the monster didn't seem interested in them as much as it was interested in their landscaping. It seems like the initial plan to lure it away by strategically placing those plants would have worked and your point that is was more of a nuisance than a real threat is correct.

Which makes me wonder why Pharynx even bothered to go off an fight it since it was actually doing him a favor by making the hive look more like that of the old one he loved so much. I guess he went because of his last remaining bit of loyalty to the hive, even if he had none for the individuals in it. (And perhaps it was just plain fun for him to fight a big monster, lol.)

4 minutes ago, Jeric said:

Narratively, there's an opportunity cost, and the potential to undermine the lesson by including Spike.

Indeed, a writer on their toes with Spike in the episode would have remembered he already went through this exact same thing where he threw a "bad" changeling under the bus, and would have stopped that complication right then and there.

It might be fun for the audience, however, to do a thought experiment where he does stop Starlight from trying to get Pharynx out and see whether any of the ideas presented after that point in the story could still have been achieved with the backend of the story undergoing such a radical change. Something fun for me to do after I go to bed tonight! =D

50 minutes ago, MegaSean45 said:

Yunno it's bad enough they got rid of Spike's pet! How about we DON'T give Starlight one?

If they allow Peewee to return to Spike now that he's had some time to be raised by his parents, I'm all for giving Starlight her own pet. In fact, Peewee's return could be the catalyst that gets Starlight interested in wanting one of her own.

Or is Trixie already her pet?  

Correction, RD: That should be "not so-secret pony adventurer of all time."

Thanks, friendship journal! XD

47 minutes ago, Music Chart Fan said:

I don't know, the idea that a society should maintain some means of protecting its members and property from external threats doesn't seem too hard to accept, unless the changelings are complete pacifists.

My thinking was the changelings that follow Thorax did become complete pacifists because he was a pacifist and was their leader. He likely told them how he stood aside during the attack on Canterlot, not wanting to resort to any violence. If they trust them as their leader, they could have adopted that stance for how they lived their own lives.

Admittedly, once the monster attacks started happening, it doesn't seem plausible - with Pharynx around to offer an alternative - they would continue to keep wanting to sit around and do artsy stuff and talk about their feelings with their hive getting destroyed. There seems to be a disconnect in the initial set-up of the plot we are supposed to overlook, I guess.

I suppose if Pharynx's rhetoric was so over-the-top and xenophobic, they might just dismiss everything he says. But he didn't seem that extreme in the episode. I'll have to watch it again to see if I feel any differently about him on a second viewing.

47 minutes ago, Music Chart Fan said:

I would think that national defense could be achieved (and even achieved better) without doing such things.

I guess there is a balance between spying on your enemies (and friends, apparently <_< ) and allowing the wool to be pulled over your eyes because you as a country aren't paying attention to what other countries are doing. I don't have the answer to what the balance is; there is an argument to be made by how things work in nature that aggressive posturing works to avoid greater conflict, but then again we're not bears or wolverines or such. Certainly it doesn't make you popular on the world, there would be no terrorism if the jihadists could point to and embellish examples from the past.

It's the age old question - is it better to rule by fear or rule by being respected? The old and new changeling cultures certainly are a working example of this dilemma.

56 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

And the beginning stated they both agreed to visit Thorax as a surprise, suggesting it was impromptu.

49 minutes ago, Jeric said:

but in general those organic and spontaneous moments happen frequently enough for me to not see anything wrong with Spike not being there. Now to someone who is a Spike fan, of course they would be more likely to be upset he wasn't included. 

33 minutes ago, Jeric said:

Ha! That fits the joke I was going for in my OP ...

Indeed, as soon as they said they were doing a surprise visit to Thorax's hive, I assumed they ditched Spike just like you kidded about. 

26 minutes ago, Jeric said:

That speech is really interesting, because it may be the first time we have seen signs of Starlight being an inspirational leader to a larger group, something she would have had to be decent at to have pulled off her Cutie Mark free cult. It was kinda refreshing to see that slightly different side of her, as she used her ability to convince a group for something decent

Absolutely. It made the most sense for Starlight to give the speech here. She can be incredibly charismatic when she really wants to be.

10 minutes ago, Stardust Balance said:

Again, unlike the mares, Spike's a kid with a child's mind. Evidently he's not gonna mentally develop as much like the others.

I generally see him differently. He's a kid with an adult mind. He hangs out with and relates to adults far more often than he does with the foals around town. If anything, his mind is advancing faster than his physical age.

However, I still put him at a young to middle teen by now in the series. Unless they specifically state his age in an episode, no one is ever going to convince me otherwise. 

21 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

In ABU, Trixie had an alibi. Trixie's style of magic is notoriously weak for a unicorn, and Starlight helped her study more complex magic. Transfiguring items into teacups and magically relocating the castle round table were such huge accomplishments for her, she got overexcited.

---

 

Yes, that's true. How poorly she treated Starlight bothered me nonetheless, at least after she lost the map table, anyway. Before that her antics didn't seem so mean, and all I could think about was how much of a jerk she came off as, with her being so self-centered around her supposed best friend. Even to the point of having the audacity to complain about not getting any of the snacks she herself ruined or her "You never get mad at me" comment. =P

2 hours ago, Steve Piranha said:

I think the charm about Trix is that she knows she's annoying, so she rolls with it. You know, that bestie that always annoys you, but you annoy back... It's fun  

I felt like it was over the top this time out, but if it's a joke she's playing up that her fans like, it's going right over my head. 

I think they had her dialed in perfectly in the S6 finale, and she's been getting a little more grating as S7 has gone on. For example she wasn't as bad as she was here as she was in "All Bottled Up," but even then I remember thinking during that episode she was starting to get on my nerves. At one point in this episode the thought of "with friend's like this..." crossed my mind while she was busy throwing Starlight under the bus.

If this is how Trixie really is, I can't say she'd be a close friend of mine in real life. People who's modus operandi is to talk about how great they are all the time (especially at my expense) end up on the short list of getting cut off. Needless to say you can probably guess I'm not a fan of the current US President for that reason alone, among others.

And speaking of politics, I didn't miss the subtext of showing that lefty, peace-loving types still have to have some kind of military to keep them safe. As has been stated already there are a multitude of themes presented here, and digging deeper it may be one of them is this episode is crying out for a return to middle-of-the-road politics, with Pharynx and Chrysalis' former group representing far right xenophobes and the new changelings representing far-left tree-hugging pansies. They portrayal is stereotypical, at least for the reformed changelings, but I think the episode did that to make sure it got the point across.

Though honestly I watch this show to escape politics, so I'm not entirely sure it's a good thing... <_<

And I have to agree with those that say Starlight was nerfed here for the sake of the plot. I could think of a couple of spells she might have used, like the crystal entrapment spell she used on Twi and Spike in the S5 finale. Or maybe mind control the beast? (Though maybe it only works on sapient creatures?) Or if nothing else teleport it with her far, far, away and then she could teleport back.

I didn't like he changed at the end, either. I was hoping there was room for both forms of changelings, especially if he could just be convinced to be closer to how his brother Thorax was before he was transformed. That is, give him the sparkly wings so he's not hungry and a include the better attitude, but keep his warrior-focused mindset.

And Spike couldn't be there, even though I really wanted him to be and would have made sense for him to visit his friend. (Maybe Starlight can only teleport one other being that far of a distance?) The scene with Starlight throwing Pharynx under the bus would have had Spike step in and not give up so easily, just like he did with Ember in GoF. Of course, it depends on which Spike you get: S6 Spike where he stood his ground almost every time or "Triple Threat" Spike. He really is like a box of chocolates, isn't he? 

It seemed jarring at first when Starlight suddenly thought he had to be told to leave, but @Jeric is correct that she was under a lot of peer pressure from all the other hive members to get rid of him, so I'm okay with it - though I myself wouldn't have given up so easily since it did come out of nowhere for me at first. Time constraints of the episode, I imagine.

The irony of Starlight giving a speech to convince a group instead of Spike is not lost on me, nor is the fact that her throwing Pharynx under the bus paralleled what Spike did to Thorax last season.  (And yes that was his one time last season he wimped out, but like Starlight, he had a really good reason to cave in.)

I'm torn once again whether to vote for liked or loved. I loved the thought-provoking aspects of the episode and there were a lot of funny moments and dialogue, but there are a few negatives and plot contrivances that are really noticeable. The message I was hoping to see in regards to retaining one's identity is there, but it's a lot more subtle than I hoped and is buried under some of the more prominent themes. I'll have to watch it a few more times - it's certainly worthy of that. 

OMG baby Thorax had a Spike doll. Spooky. But a fun Easter Egg nonetheless. 

This episode managed to do what "Slice of Life" could only hope to achieve - tell a story completely without any of the Mane 6 or Spike. 

On 8/27/2017 at 2:41 PM, Jeric said:

Third wheel? Ouch. Peanut butter cracker snarfage is the least of her worries:

Great and Powerful ponies should know better than to mess in the affairs of small purple dragons for they can send all your most personal correspondence to your beloved leaders where much mirth shall be shared. 

On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 0:07 AM, Justin_Case001 said:

Your joke made me think of another crossover/reference.  So...um, well, here, I'll see your captioned pic and raise you one:

Rarity would be horrified to have to trade her purple mane in for a white one, however. 

2 hours ago, MegaSean45 said:

Advisory role, maybe, but I wanna see a little more development than that! Does the Sparkle family consider him family? I mean, he's got nobody else as his family! He never met his! If this isn't the case, how is Spike so damn content with his life? Not knowing his family doesn't seem to bother him one bit. It's so weird! Is he hiding something and is doing a good job hiding it?

I hope he's prevalent in the vacation episode as well and will be interested to see how he relates to Twilight's parents - if he gets to come along. That's my point - this season he's been so scarce I can't even be sure he's going to go along with Twilight on her trip, even if it would make sense for him to do so. What I was alluding to earlier was I've kind of thrown my hands in the air at this point and will take any kind of positive role for Spike for the rest of the season, even if it's just being Twilight's sensible advisor again and hope things get back to S6 levels next season.

As for whether knowing his family bothers him or not, I think it does - or at least it did. It certainly bothered him in "Dragon Quest," and I've theorized his greatest fear of Twilight abandoning him relates in some way to him wondering whether his parents were killed or if they gave his egg up of their own free will. Neither is particularly healthy for his state of mind, though if he worries his parents didn't love him, then that bears directly on that abandonment fear.

It's true he's been doing better since he tangled with Sombra's dark magic, and I suppose a lot of that is his newfound celebrity as the hero of the Crystal Empire. But I hope they don't forget his earlier issues and revisit them someday, especially if word of his origins becomes known.

7 minutes ago, MegaSean45 said:

I'm hoping for that more than anything else he's getting this season! He is owed in season 8 though!

I'll be happy if he at least gets to be in his usual advisory role at this point for the rest of this season. He's been mostly irrelevant after "A Flurry of Emotions." It's like someone flipped a switch starting with the S5 finale giving Spike the respect he deserves and flipped it off after the 2 S7 openers. Josh Haber might be the best thing for Spike in S8. =)

On 2/16/2017 at 10:10 PM, MegaSean45 said:

What's going to be his part in season 7?

Seeing this thread bumped reminded me of a dream I had a few nights ago. I dreamed you posted a tweet from Jim Miller who had responded to your question as to whether Spike had any more episodes this season. His response was Triple Threat was the only one

What a weirdly specific dream. So much so I woke up thinking it had actually happened. Hopefully it's not true but it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

Also you can see how exciting my life is in that I dream about the Internet when I'm not online, lol.

Starting with "Fame and Misfortune," they no longer seem to be showing teasers during the episode for the following episode. Instead they get released several hours later. Not sure why, but I guess as long as it's still a week ahead of when the next episode airs then I'm OK with it.

Hopefully Spike has some role in the episode, even if he doesn't go along with Starlight and Trixie. If he's completely missing like he was in "Fame and Misfortune." it will be a slap in the face to his character if he's seen as not important enough to even offer the two of them advice before they leave. =P

Also, I hope Pharynx does more than smash stuff like the yaks. This is the episode I was most looking forward to because I wanted to see the show delve into what amounts to changelings having feelings about being "the bad guys" and how they identify with the rest of the world. What they showed in the promo worries me a bit, but hopefully that was not indicative of the arc of the episode as a whole.

I enjoyed this one more on the second viewing. I had already given it a "liked" rating, but seeing how Scootaloo and Rainbow Dash really bonded after the last story really connected with me emotionally. I think that's why I liked Mistmane's story the best as well - I felt more of an emotional connection with her character than I did with the other two legends. Also Rarity is best narrator, but that's mostly in part to her VA. 

While the second viewing helped, it's still not enough to switch in into the "loved" category. But a fun watch, nonetheless.

On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 1:30 AM, Music Chart Fan said:

..

Rainbow Dash can apparently punch and kick swarm clouds of the flyders and they make a smacking sound as though they're a single solid unit.

I'm a bit surprised by both the sheer number and the aggressiveness of the flyders. They don't just want to eat the food, they bite the ponies and shoot webs at them with the apparent intent of keeping them from running away. Do they normally travel in a large predatory swarm like that? Did the ponies inadvertently disturb a nest of them or something?

...

I'm not so sure that Rainbow's rock slide would actually prevent the flyders from getting in the cave if they were determined to do so. I wouldn't necessarily expect the rock slide (with various, mostly large rocks) to create a perfect barrier with no gaps large enough for any flyders to get through.

I had to combine all your comments into a single quote and edit that, because I haven't figured out how to multi-quote from the same message once it's on a previous page... <_<

RD can punch them because pegasi can punch at clouds, so maybe a cloud of bugs is just another cloud susceptible to pegasi magic?

It could be the flyers were aggressive because they were so far from their natural habitat and where stressed, causing them to because aggressive. Though the flaw my logic is they seemed to have no problem with capturing and eating ponies, so they are clearly carnivorous and could thrive in any part of Equestria - in fact unchecked they could likely become a plague on the land, no matter where they originally came from because they don't seem to have any natural predators to keep their numbers in check. I wonder what Fluttershy thinks of these bugs? Are they her friends, too, or does she feel more about them like she feels for dragons since they have no issues with making her into a meal?

I thought about the gaps in the rocks, too. I guess dirt collapsed with the rocks, filling the gaps and they just didn't bother to animate it? Of course, by sealing the cave well enough to keep the flyders out meant she may have sealed their only source of air and they were all doomed to suffocate if they didn't clear the opening again. So to me it seemed like some of Scootaloo's fears about being trapped were justified. In any case, since there was another way out it didn't really matter.

5 hours ago, StrawCherry said:

I really liked Scootaloo's line, "Big scary dragons… or more like Spike?" too much for some reason.

I didn't even notice this line until the second viewing. I wonder how Scootaloo reacted to Ember last week, since she's a dragon somewhere in-between the two extremes of Spike and Torch?

1 hour ago, Justin_Case001 said:

OK, that ref cracked me up silly. Thanks! 

57 minutes ago, Batbrony said:

Holy cheese... this episode is already off to an amazing start!  Great continuity?  Check.

While I liked the continuity, they did mess up the timeline by implying the time they did this last year was the time Scootaloo was having all the bad dream issues, which actually took place a number of years ago. If the Crusaders didn't have their marks, one could say this episode took place in the past, but the foreshadowing doesn't really allow for that, either.

Just now, Jeric said:

I think it's safe to assume it was him since Dragons are extremely long lived. 

Plus, it's just more fun to connect the characters in these stories to the existing continuity of show. It's a win-win situation!