Truffles

It's funny, if Rainbow had gone along with Twilight and Rarity like she did back in season 2, she could have met the dragon in her favorite legend.

Also, no Sphinx. o_O

Lol, Scoots doing her best impression of Spike from just a half hour ago.

The way they said how unusual it was for the Flyders to be this far inland feels like foreshadowing for the finale or the movie...

It was a Spike episode, though he probably did more in the B-side of "The Crystalling" to help solve Starlight's and Sunburst's reunion problem than he did in this episode.

Didn't she encounter snow when she attacked the yaks, though? That comic Arc is supposedly canon with the show.

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 5:25 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Next, Twilight says that "according to Ember's letters, the dragons are trying to be friends, but competing is in their nature, and it's leading to more and more fights", which is why Ember is seeking advice. Does that mean that attempting to be friends is leading to more fights than usual? I'm trying to think how that would happen. Would they normally tend not to interact, but trying to be friends leads to more interactions, which then break down into fights?

I'm thinking the "friendliness" is coming off as awkward between them, and they end up insulting one another instead trying to follow Ember's advice which only makes things worse and ends up in a fight. Hopefully because Thorax's issue is actually getting featured in a few weeks, that means next season we'll get to see what Ember was talking about, too. (Unless ep. 24's title somehow relates to this (though honestly I can't see it myself) and we'll get another Ember appearance before the end of the season.)

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 5:25 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Finally, Thorax's problem of getting other changelings under his rule to respect him is understandable, but I'm not quite sure why he wants to ask Spike specifically for advice on that. Wouldn't he have better chances of getting useful advice from another leader, like Princess Twilight, or, perhaps even better, Princess Celestia or Princess Luna?

Some have even suggested Starlight could have been a better advisor for this, since she ruled a town. Though her rule was through deception and I don't think Thorax would be interested in ruling in that manner. Presumably Spike told him about her history as he liked to do every waking moment last season. XD

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 5:25 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

I might think that the first candidates for "people in Ponyville with a friendship problem" would be Ember and Thorax, who both came to Ponyville to seek advice on dealing with (essentially) friendship problems, but it doesn't seem that Spike, Twilight, and Starlight see it that way.

Yeah, that was my first thought too - that Spike was causing the friendship problem which would escalate into a big problem for Equestria hence the reason the tree decided to step in. Spike and the others not looking their guests being the problem was probably the weakest part of the plot for me. I liked that they showed us it's possible for Spike to be called by the map, but I don't know with all the stuff already going on in this episode whether this was the best time to do it. Honestly, it would have worked better overall if he had been called with Starlight back in "A Royal Problem."

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 5:25 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Previous friendship problems which the Mane Six (or Starlight) were called upon to solve seemed to involve significant time to travel to the location and find them first, so we might think that the friendship problems identified by the Cutie Map aren't super-urgent.

Very true, though for this I blame Twilight. When Spike says he's going to grab the ice cream to get on with his discussion regarding Thorax's problem, she shoots that idea down and forces him to look for the friendship problem instead. If he had just gone ahead with his original plan, it might have led to the real problem being solved sooner.

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 5:25 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Spike says he's "pretty sure" that dragons don't like flowers, but what is that based on?

I think it's from Ember's comment near the end of "Gauntlet of Fire" where she begins with , "This doesn't mean we're gonna pick flowers." So he probably remembered that and decided she's not a fan of flowers, maybe he thinks she thinks they're too "girly" for a tough dragon like herself?

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 5:25 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

When the trumpeters play the entrance fanfare right at Ember, and she doesn't like it, is she on the verge of actually attacking one of them when she's interrupted by Spike? Or was she just doing the intimidation thing?

I thought she was going to attack them. Which would have been an even shorting friendship meeting than there was with the yaks. XD

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 5:25 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

When the Cutie Map called Spike, at first I thought it was the call of the Dragon Lord issued by Ember, similar to the one that called Spike to the Dragon Lands in "Gauntlet of Fire".

Same here. I was (pleasantly) dumbfounded when it turned out it was how the map shows him getting called. His cutie mark is his whole head!

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 5:25 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

When some curious ponies gather around Ember in town, and she announces her title and does a fire-breathing display, I'm not sure why, in that case, the ponies run away screaming in fear.

I got the impression they were falling back into "Luna Eclipsed" mode, namely, they all fear dragons in a similar way to how they feared Nightmare Moon. So just like when Luna is loud and provocative, Ember scared then when she acts in a similar way.

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 11:02 PM, Batbrony said:

That "I just watched a good episode of MLP" feeling...

I swear that shot of Thorax looks like he's posing for a pinup in a calendar. XD

16 hours ago, Justin_Case001 said:

I mean, for Celestia's sake, wasn't Fluttershy probably going to meet Ember at some point?  Spike didn't seem concerned about that.

*Thinks for a moment*

Oh cripes, I totally forgot about Fluttershy! I'm been going on and on in the past that Fluttershy needs Spike to help her with her fears about dragons, and was thinking the first time Ember visits Ponyville would be a good time to do that. It seems the writers didn't think so, I guess... :-/

I suppose we have that as an explanation as to why she wasn't seen, at least. She probably scheduled some time with her animal friends in her Nightmare Night mini-bunker while Ember was in town. I can't find a good reason for the other ponies, however. (Well, maybe Rarity wouldn't either because she and Ember seemed to have a minor rivalry the first time they met.)

47 minutes ago, FizzyGreen said:

So, i liked how this episode tackled an issue that is often present when people make wrong implicit assumptions about their friends. It happend to me and it tackles the "not saying things" issue my former very good friend has. To not say things and keep them implicit or even unconscious.

It is interesting that the premise of this episode is like the flip side to "Maud Pie." There, Pinkie assumed her friends would just get along great with Maud, which wasn't the case. (At least not till much later, and only perhaps with Rarity.) Here, Spike assumes the opposite in that he assumes his friends won't get along. The lessons aren't the same though - in the former, the lesson is it's OK if not all of your friends are going to become besties with one another, as long as they all share the bond between the friend in common. Here, it's not to assume the worst. The interesting part is how they managed to get different lessons out of a similar premise.

48 minutes ago, MegaSean45 said:

Starlight was called this season too, remember?  

Oops, I forgot about that!  Maybe it will be Thorax asking directly, then? That does bode a little better for Spike.

9 hours ago, Driverscissors said:

You summed up my main problem with the episode pretty well.

Also, am i the only one bothered with the fact that no one bothered to correct Amber on how the castle and the silverware( Crystalware?) aren't food? It was a funny gag, but structurally that's not a good thing for the castle and should be addressed.

I figured because they were all already on edge over Ember and Thorax being together, they didn't want to risk triggering her over her eating the castle. At least if I was in that situation, I'd avoid the conflict with a fire breathing dragon especially if the castle repairs itself or can be easily fixed with magic.

But that brings up another point - was I the only one slightly put off by Ember's lashing out at anyone who disagreed with her? Granted, this is only her second appearance so it may be this is just who she is. But I didn't think she'd trigger so easily upon being pointed out when she's wrong. 

15 hours ago, MegaSean45 said:

For Change a Changeling, since Thorax told Spike about the renegade changelings, there is a slight possibility that Trixie being in it was a typo, and it turns out to be a Spike/Starlight combo episode. I could be wrong though! I could be wrong! It's just a speculation! We'll know for sure next week on the promo for that episode!

Wouldn't be the first episode though to have a typo like that! I mean, last year's changeling episode had Sunburst's name in the synopsis instead of Starlight.

I guess it depends on whether Thorax himself asks for help (does he have those neato scarab comm devices like Chrysalis had? ) or whether it's a map episode. If it's a map episode, then Spike won't go with them since he already got called this season and the show never sends anyone but who the map requests.

So I guess we'll know in the first few moments when it airs in 2 weeks!

5 hours ago, Hierok said:

I see, but then I still wonder. We now have an ambasador of the dragons, but shouldn't we also have one for griffons or changelings, for example? This could really become a thing. 

From the dialogue later in the episode, I took it as an explanation by the show runners that he is the ambassador of friendship to all species.

4 minutes ago, MegaSean45 said:

Yunno what I just figured out? This season is really lacking Luna! She only spoke once! XD

Luna and Ember should get together for an episode - Luna could help her out with that overuse of the royal dragonlord voice. =)

11 hours ago, Hierok said:

That's because Lesson Zero fitted in Twilights character, but this didn't with Spike. 

Go back and check out the end of "The Crystal Empire, Pt 2." There you'll find Spike panicking pretty much like he did here while he's waiting for the Celestia's response to Twilight's "test." So while I agree it's rare, it's not like he has never fretted to an extreme before.

The biggest problem with this episode is that, even though it's supposedly a Spike episode, Spike himself here is mostly irrelevant. He's there to kickstart the conflict and move it forward at various points. But as others have said, he didn't really solve the problem. It was stopped for him on its own when Ember and Thorax finally met one another by accident and ended up being friends after an initial misunderstanding.

I guess if I really want to dig deep into plot details (and basically second guess myself), Spike did help solve the problem since he was the one they were fighting over. If they didn't know him and just met on the street, they probably wouldn't have ever become friends.

The episode did develop his character, though - we learned he can be called by the map (which I suspected ever since Starlight was called just a few episodes ago but didn't think it would happen to Spike until S8 - I thought the CMC would be up next) and he did learn a good lesson about the pitfalls of looking only at the bad side of things. (Though I guess if he worked in quality assurance that actually would be pretty helpful.  )

Some additional thoughts:

After reading everyone's comments on various sites and thinking about it all day, I was expecting to not like this episode as much on the second viewing, much like how I felt about last week's episode because the endorphin rush from all the jokes had worn off. Surprisingly, that didn't happen. I guess the jokes between established characters age better than jokes involving one-shot anonymous background ponies? I guess there might be a case for this because Rarity's dressmaking last week was still funny when I saw it again this morning, and has softened my view of "Fame and Misfortune" a bit. Rarity was the best thing about that episode!

I was surprised at Thorax coming to Spike's defense in such an aggressive manner. It was charming and even heroic for him to do that, since even as a bear he probably was the underdog when dealing with a fire breathing dragon. But all the same I didn't think he cared about Spike that much. I knew they were BFF's, but because they've has so little interaction after "TTAaC", I didn't really have a feeling about how far their friendship really went, especially after Thorax befriended Starlight.

At first I didn't get why Ember thought smearing Derpy's muffin on the wall was a good idea. Then I finally realized she was just applying the knowledge she mistakenly thought was the case about decorating the castle with "food" for friendship. Duh on me. 

When Ember interrupted Thorax while they were along together and shouted at him to "stop talking," I swear I thought she was going to lay a big old kiss on him the next moment. 

Thorax looks ridiculously cute emulating Twilight trying to get all comfy in her special chairs!

I still miss the black, sad-puppy-dog version of Thorax, but because his personality is so endearing and hasn't changed his new form is OK with me. Maybe he'll take on his old form temporarily when he has to go negotiate with his brother in a few weeks? 

10 hours ago, Hierok said:

I believe he wants to be, but what has an ambassador to do? 

Spread Twilight's message of friendship is magic across the entire planet, and to all of its multitude of species.

Maybe he's a little small right now to do it full-time, but being a dragon in this role does offer him some protection from any adversaries he might encounter on his journeys compared to a pony. Heck, he was able to safely cross half of Equestria on his own and on foot without Twilight, Rarity, and Rainbow Dash intervening before he made it to the badlands where the dragons were migrating.

I don't know why, but the scenes with Ember claiming Twilight and Starlight are the same tickles my funnybone, especially this part when they start wearing each other's expressions:

Look out Twilight, next thing you know ponies will start thinking you and your student are siblings! 

11 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

This is Owl's Well done better.

1. Spike is portrayed negatively, but the portrayal isn't just there for plot convenience. He helped lead and create a massive, extravagant celebration party for Ember, but made a careless mistake to invite Thorax to Ponyville on the same day. He put a lot of time in it, so when something goes wrong, he worries that he lets Thorax, Ember, and his title down. As a result, he created a friendship problem. Yeah, it does have some cringe comedy, but because he was worried things will go wrong and wants it to go right. He put a lot of pressure on himself.
2. Thorax and Ember are really cute and funny here. Despite being leaders of their respective kingdoms, they still have conflicts to resolve.

So far, not one of my favorites nor near the season's best. Yet, compared to last week's atrocity, it's much better.

"Owl's Well" has been easier for me to watch after S6. Before that, seeing Twilight turn her back on him with all the other stuff that happened to him in previous seasons was just too much.

Here, Twilight and Starlight are completely supportive and even help Spike pull off this scheme to keep his two friends separate. It's what you'd expect friends of his to do for him and not blow off his concerns.

I have to say, however, I got a bit of that bad "Owl's" vibe when Ember and Thorax berated him for assuming how they'd behave. I suppose it's more believable, here, though, since Spike had been ditching the two of them all afternoon. They were likely a little peeved at being treated poorly by their host.

And nothing is ever going to touch "A Perfect Pear" for best episode this season. 

Just now, ggg-2 said:

Another thing I found interesting: before the changelings were referred to as a hive, but here they're a pack?

I guess because they look more like deer now? Though they should be called a herd then... 

1 minute ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

That talk between Thorax and Ember learning from each other is my favorite part.

I think the lesson is best summed up in Spike's words: "I was so focused on how it could go wrong that I didn't think of how it can go right""

This is a lesson that I hope over-critical Bronies learn from. I don't like it when they focus too much on the negatives that they don't see the positives, whether it's about a character or episode.

It was cute seeing them alone together. 

And you just blew my mind about the lesson being meta. Even more so since it is applicable to this very episode and the early predictions based on the premise. Though from the comments above it seems like for at least a few the episode did turn out bad for them.

3 minutes ago, Hierok said:

No far worse then leans in. Spike was just treated as thrash here. There was no reason that they didn't like each other and he only thought: Well, two different species can't be friends.

There's no way this is worse than Fluttershy Leans In. That episode was boring in addition to having writing flaws. This one was hilarious. Also Twilight and Starlight were complicit in enabling his fear of the two of them not getting along, so there is at least a logical reason for him to act this way. Also it's so over the top it did achieve my goal of Spike having a "Lesson Zero" moment.

I agree though his character took a step back from how he's behaved since the first two episodes this season and all of last season. But I'm willing to live with that to see him go off the deep end at least once. And there wasn't really a lot of Spikeabuse, if any - most of the problems he encountered were imaginary and in the end nothing really bad happened to him.

25 minutes ago, Hierok said:

I don't know. @MegaSean45 indeed predicted it, but I don't why he has to be and what he is doing.

It's not a matter of "he has to be" but more like he wants to be. The fact that he's been emulating Twilight for most of the entire series kind of speaks to him wanting to be like the pony who hatched him. It makes sense to me.

2 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

Eh, I wouldn't go that far. I'm just glad we finally have a secondary character appearance where she can't be easily switched out for another.

Not literally, of course. Hence my emoticons. But at least two times during this episode Starlight came across like voice of reason Spike from Lesson Zero and many other episodes.

So this episode went pretty much like those who feared it would be bad would go, though the pacing was a lot quicker than they probably expected.

But it turned out to be a great episode anyway because almost every line of dialogue was hilarious and the revelation of Spike getting called by the map was totally unexpected.

Also, Starlight is apparently the new voice of reason. She's replacing both Twilight and Spike! 

54 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

And how that you know he was? The point is that the only reason Starlight can fill the role she did is because she wasn't in the journal, she didn't even know it existed. They could have given a "different" role to Spike and reshaped the episode around that, but they didn't. 

No, you can't just remove Starlight, her outside perspective was the driving force behind all the changes. Of course they could rework the episode to not include her, but they didn't. 

While I agree Starlight was a good match for this episode, it is possible her role was originally meant for Spike. My understanding is M.A. Larson apparently wrote his episode quite a while ago, and if that is the case, then Starlight wouldn't have been part of the cast yet. So either she replaced Spike's role or the story editors simply added her in from scratch.

1 hour ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I liked "Slice of Life" because there was usually an in-universe joke or at least a degree of surrealism to balance out the fandom references, and "Stranger than Fanfiction" because it kept itself entirely in-universe. I didn't really like "Fame and Misfortune" because the dialogue doesn't match the situation, to the degree that it's clearly an unsubtle allegory for people talking about fiction.

That brings up another thing that I found unusual: There's this one moment where a pony fan says Twilight's "character" was more interesting in Canterlot. His saying that would make sense in the context of their world, since he was referring to her "character" in the journal. But Twilight's response took me out of the story:

She shouts back to him that she's a real pony and not a character, and while that may be true from her perspective, it's not true for us - she is most definitely a fictional character - whose sole purpose is to educate and entertain us viewers. Not a bad calling in life (as far as life of fictional characters go), but she'd be floored if she could see the true nature of her universe. 

50 minutes ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Even if this episode's creators intended for the ponies' harassing and insufferable behavior in the episode to represent only isolated incidents (which I'm not sure that that's the case), there are a lot of people who seem to believe that the ponies' behavior in this episode is a realistic depiction of a large part of the fandom. In other words, they seem to believe that a large part of the fandom, including people who critically analyze the show, really act just like the ponies in this episode.

Many in the fandom hated the portrayal of the Canterlot delegates in "Princess Spike," and that's what I'm using as a baseline in to how I see these journal fans coming at the Mane 6 with questions and insults. Those delegates were the thing I hated most about that episode, and even if it turned out they were based on the interactions with real-life attendees at a pony con, somehow I don't think that would endear them to me any further. (Though like now I guess I'd laugh if I recognized anything that stood out.) They were basically there to bend the plot into a way that worked for Spike to do his thing and be a schmuck in that episode.

So the same goes for the journal fans in this episode here - if any of them had more depth, the plot would have resolved itself sooner than when it did with Toola and Coconut being the only ones who understood what the journal was really for.

1 hour ago, Jeric said:

I wouldn't go that far. Obviously when pressed for time they can't delve into the complexity of each individual fan representation, but what they can do, and what they did do, is take an accurate snapshot of things fans have done or said that have perplexed the staff over the years.

Much if what we saw is accurate. The mare that screamed that they were entitled to know is taken directly from Jim Miller's Twitter page. It's one of the things that has caused him to rant in the past. 

I can't argue that the things they portrayed haven't happened in the fan community. And I admit that as they hit on each one of them, I laughed because I've seen it myself. But it's still a little shallow even if it is an accurate rendering, especially because it's first airing was right after a really fulfilling and emotional episode. It was kind of like following up a full-course meal with a red hot gumball - it's fun at first for the shock value but leaves one feeling a little empty on repeated viewings.

I will say this - the episode did deliver some of the funniest faces we've had from the Mane 6 in a long time. Those at least will last in the memories of the viewers, even if the other details of the episode don't. Also it's interesting how there's been a discussion on where the slapstick has gone in the series and then we get this episode. It proves it hasn't gone away completely, and in fact is pretty much a showcase for such humor. (Twilight taking the brunt of it, much like she did in "Feeling Pinkie Keen," right down to having the same expression after she got a door slammed in her face, originally by Spike and this time by Pinkie.)

13 hours ago, A.V. said:

 

Trust me -- the Take That, Audience! stuff didn't bother me at all (especially since FIM >>>>>>>>> Teen Titans Go! in that regard).

 

What did bother me was the mob being too similar to the Springfieldians in the Simpsons episode "The Boys Of Bummer."

You and @Dark Qiviut hit the nail on the head with the journal fans: They're cutouts and don't seem like realistic portrayals of the real fandom. In fact, they're so one-note they reminded me of another mob of ponies who acted stupid and wouldn't leave a little dragon alone while he tried to do his job of allowing a certain princess some time to rest... <_<

11 hours ago, Lambdadelta said:

Her advantage is her clean proflie  Spike was heavily criticized in Season 1,2,3 and 4, he will become the ultimate butt monkey if he appear in this ep, he cant help anyone because he will be victim himself because of those "Bad Spike episodes". Spike received so much respects in S6, I dont think Spike fan like to see himself being tortured RIGHT!? 

I have no problems with Spike facing serious conflict (and, in fact, have been accused of Spikeabuse in my fanfics... ._. ) and would have laughed if he got entangled with all the fans of the journal with the rest of the cast. I guess being in on the joke is more important than having to stand on the sidelines just watching for me. 

I want to think there was a scene that went on behind the show title sequence where upon finding out Twilight was going to release the journal to the public, Spike suddenly felt a tremor in the force and immediately took off on a visit to Ember -  not wanting to get blamed again like the LAST time mobs of ponies came running to him with inane questions. 

8 hours ago, Compeador said:

this episode is basically our fandom in a nutshell lol

at least they didn't referenced the r34, right?

They could of safely shown ponies selling body pillows of the Mane 6 and Spike; after all, they did that joke once before. 

Seriously, though, I was expecting at least one pony ask the question of whether any of the Mane 6 were dating one another. 

2 hours ago, Jaspers said:

If Spike and Discord would've taken the matters into their own hands like that, maybe they weren't in it just so the episode wouldn't get too intense. 

Spike is to Rarity as Discord is to Fluttershy, so your point is well taken. Maybe Spike would have just sent those ponies off to Celestia just so they would be out of the way for the rest of the day?  (presuming he remembers to use the correct flame... <_< )

43 minutes ago, Dark Horse said:

Alright guys! The poll is live!! Go and share your thoughts!

The last poll question is perfect and is probably a first for this series. *selects*

I must admit, going from being all leaky-faced from rewatching "The Perfect Pear" to THIS episode in span of a few minutes yesterday was more than a bit jarring... =P