Truffles

One other thing that's worth mentioning is how this episode showed the growth of Rainbow Dash's character since season 1. If she were like how she was in "Fall Weather Friends," she would have insisted on doing the second race with Garble for the artifact, even though Spike had already won it fair and square.

It surprised me even more when she used her noggin and actually tricked him into giving her the shield, avoiding a waste of time (and potentially another double-cross) and simply flew off with it! It was amusing to say the least.

2 hours ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

Perhaps a little bit of all 3.

I definitely see him being a combination of the three side characters:

- He has Sunburst's penchant for being studious but not good at performing magic.

- He seems to be their go-to guy like Spike whenever they need assistance with something.

- And he clearly has Starlight's hurt feelings that led her to becoming evil.

1 hour ago, Aethylynn said:

Technically he is not one of the pillars, so he wouldn't necessarily have a counterpart. He was sort of like their manager.

You know, the one who books their appearances, and pays off the hotel when they trash their room.

Heh, I guess he really is like their own version of #1 assistant Spike, then. XD

54 minutes ago, CloudMistDragon said:

No, not the scene of Pinkie hugging AJ’s ass and possible implications of Garble being a pedo (HE HAS TO LET ME GIVE IT TO HIM)

Wait, wut? Usually I don't miss an opportunity to note saucy humor, but somehow I did this time. XD

10 minutes ago, Jeric said:

Honestly, Discord's reformation might well be the worst thing to happen to the show from a narrative point of view. Not for me, but certainly for many others who can't seem to get past the fact he isn't going to be Voltron's Blazing Sword like they seemingly want.

This. I was thinking the same thing while watching the movie. Fluttershy was in danger but Discord wasn't around to lift a finger to help her during that conflict. But it would have been completely unsatisfying to have him swoop in and save the day or have some sort of macGuffin around to nerf his powers (though I do wonder if the cage and orbs that trapped the princesses was made of the same stuff Chrysalis' throne was made of), so unfortunately having him be reformed and at full power really is like the proverbial concrete block weighing the whole series down due to his fans complaining about the lack of logic of him being there to set things right, at least for Fluttershy. 

So as I type this I am sitting in my car getting internet where I can because my modem bricked itself and won't be back online until sometime next week, so these will probably be my only other comments on the episode for a little while, aside from the ones I made in the leak thread a few weeks ago while traveling.

On the plus side, DirecTV finally added the HD feed of Discovery Family, so I got to see this episode in glorious high-definition. 

Anyway, I mostly like the finale just as well as when I saw the leaked version. I do agree some some of the comments, however, that it would have been good if they had included a bit more of the Shadow Pony wreaking havoc to make it clear why everyone's instinct would be to banish him again. Also, I wonder if the dark force that gave him his power was somehow related to the same one that gave Nightmare Moon her power? It would have been fantastic if they had been able to link the two, but the episode still did an amazing job with juggling all the characters in the limited time it had.

I wonder if they'll make Flash Magnus an honorary Wonderbolt? Either way, the shipping fuel between him and Rainbow is already large enough to catch fire as it is now...

Apologizes in advance for the wall of text... 

I finally got to see the movie yesterday morning at the local theater. It's a small theater, but it was packed nonetheless. I am surprised the movie fell to 15th over the weekend - by the crowd I thought it would do better!

It could have been a better moviegoing experience, however. The image on the screen was a bit out of focus. Also the theater seemed to be completely filled with families and their kids, and while the kids didn't cause any problems, the father sitting to the left of me was annoying. He insisted on texting with his cellphone and even fell asleep 2/3rds of the way into the movie and started snoring. Fortunately, he got some important text that woke him up and he had to leave the theater, leaving his kids with their mom. It sucked for them but he really didn't belong in there if he wasn't going to be a courteous audience member. =P

As for the movie itself, it was... okay. That was my one-word reaction following the closing credits as I left the auditorium. If I were to rate it based on the voting scale we use here on the forums, it would sit somewhere between "meh" and "liked", and I would probably bump it up to "liked" for at least trying to say something important and not screwing up any of the characters in a big way. On a 10-scale it's a 7 - not bad but not great.

It's funny, this movie reminds me so much of how I felt after seeing "An American Tail 2: Fievel Goes West." It has the same squishy characters and same style of villain mostly played for laughs. (Cat R. Waul was a more complex villain than the Storm King, however. <_< ) A couple of really good songs but many others that were just meh. A mixed bag.

The film's biggest problem is it plays everything so safe there isn't much for the audience to feel anything. There is some sympathy for the characters and some funny moments but the really evocative scenes are few and far between. It's a problem when the biggest "feel" I got during the movie was when Derpy ran to try and save her favorite princess - that scene actually got me choked up because it was something I never knew about Derpy - she is really devoted to Twilight. There have been hints from her dressing up as her in "Scaremaster" but I never knew she idolized her so much. It's a nice detail, though I suspect the scene was meant to be funny and instead I had the opposite reaction and found it really sad.

Speaking of the jokes, I agree with those that say they are mostly corny. Some of them brought out a chuckle but others left me and the rest of the audience without a reaction or even doing a facepalm. And that leads me into my next problem: Twilight.

So I've read everyone's comments about Twilight's desperation move and the split it causes with her friends, and while I agree there were signs she was under stress, the aforementioned attempts at humor and the musical numbers undermine any of that feeling for the audience. I certainly didn't feel like she was particularly bothered by Pinkie and Rainbow's actions (and let us be fair here - they were the only two friends really causing any issues - Rarity, AJ, Fluttershy and Spike were blameless for the bad things that happened during their journey) and in fact it seemed like Twilight's eye-rolling over their shenanigans was just the usual "Pinkie being Pinkie/Rainbow being Rainbow" reaction we've seen over 7 seasons.

In fact I was just as shocked as her friends when she was caught trying to steal the pearl. I suppose it gets credit for being one of the few moments in the movie that wasn't predictable (yeah the predictability of so much of the story was also an issue, but I seem to have become desensitized to such things) but she really needed to show some subtle hints she was falling apart on the inside. Heck, she showed more anxiety over the party planning in the opening scene than she did after Canterlot was invaded! So while it's not an OOC moment and I like the idea that she decided to follow Capper's lead and basically become like one of the Klugetown denizens and take the pearl, the movie fails to deliver the necessary emoting to counteract all the lighthearted moments that would make the scene fully believable. If they had done it correctly, few (if any) viewers would have complained.

Of the musical numbers present in the actual movie (not the credits) I only really enjoyed two of them - "I'm the Friend you Need" being my favorite and "Open Up Your Eyes" being my second. I will admit "Time to be Awesome" is pretty catchy and has grown on me since I first heard the preview of it and wrote comments about it making me feel uneasy. RD's lyrics are still clunky, but I loved the parts where Celeano got to sing. The rest of the songs were kinda were meh for me.

"Open Up Your Eyes" still sounds pretty reminiscent of Snowfall Frost's number in "A Hearthswarming Tail", but I liked it nonetheless.

Of the new characters, Capper and Celaeno are my two favorites. Tempest was good as well, but she has the unfortunate circumstance of following in Starlight's hoofsteps. She's Starlight - good with powerful magic but with a tragic past - with a better backstory. I can understand how a unicorn would feel if they lost the part of their body that allows them to use magic effectively. It would have been interesting if she had had a scene with Scootaloo - her situation with her wings is similar in nature and it would've been an evocative scene if the two of them had a chance to chat at the end of the film.

However, I'm not sure adding all these new characters was for the best. As others have stated, the movie spends precious little time in each location before it has to move on to introduce new characters. The fake seaponies just seemed to be in there as fanservice or to sell toys. If they had concentrated on just the Mane and Crested 7 (my new term for that group, lol) I think it would have been a better film. All these new characters were there to allow the use of big-name talent, but did it really help with box office sales? I suppose they were hoping to bring in a wider audience, but from the box office results I don't think it worked and in retrospect probably wasn't worth it. I don't think fans of the show or parents with kids came to see the movie just for the big-name stars. I suppose it's possible Lionsgate would have refused to greenlight the movie at all if it didn't have any well-known actors, which is unfortunate.

Let's talk about Spike for a bit. While it was awkward to suddenly see Twilight throw her friends under the bus, the scene we got right after made it mostly worth it. Though I have to admit, that scene caused me to panic a bit because I was shouting in my head, "Spike! Don't you dare leave Twilight! She needs you right now!" I loved how he had to decide, and it was reminiscent of "A Canterlot Wedding" - except they got it right this time. I always thought it was a mistake for him to leave with the others when she accused Cadance of being evil. I do wish he had more than one line of thoughtful commentary before getting caught by the big goon.

And that's the other big moment in the film for me. If you've seen my episode comments, I've occasionally wished Spike would act less like a pony and more like a dragon. Well, he gets to shine in his role as a dragon here. The scene of him biting and then breathing fire on the goon is actually more important than the scene later where Capper uses him as a flamethrower. (I have to admit, he now has a really impressive range and accuracy compared to when he ran away and found that green dragon in the cave.) There, it is mostly Capper's decision to use his offensive capabilities. But with that goon, he decides for himself to attack the bad guy, even if it was a move made out of desperation. It also marks the first time we've ever seen him bite someone, and knowing how hard and sharp his teeth are, it wouldn't surprise me if the wound was really deep. Nice of him to follow up and catch him on fire at the same time to cauterize the wound I guess? XD

It was refreshing to see him use his flame at all, actually. Not only was he using it like a regular dragon would, he also inflated the hot air balloon and was the candle on the trojan cake. The show seems to have forgotten he can send messages or can breathe fire at all, so seeing it here for the first time in a while made me cheer.

What else? I already alluded to me not caring for the Storm King. He was just a bit too hokey, though Liev Schreiber does a good job working with the script he was given. Tempest was good and those that have said she should have been the main villain is something I can agree with. I guess they wanted to kill someone off and it would have been a big downer to kill off a pony with a tragic past. I don't know what to say about Grubber. He's mostly innocuous but didn't really add anything since the Storm King was already a goofball.

I still don't like the film's pony designs - the eyes are too big and the snouts are too small. The three princesses and Tempest all have heads like the show, why couldn't like make the Mane 6 look like that? Marketing to little girls, I guess - but it's a distraction for me to see these cutesy versions of the characters I know and love.

While I like Celeano a lot she needed to be more emotive. It's true the character animation in general is very expressive, but when her and a few others are talking in excited, anxious tones the facial expressions are instead flat and unemotional. Some of that is personal preference - being raised on classic Disney and Don Bluth films - but it seems like whoever was doing the keyframes for Feathers there needed to go back to the drawing board (as it were XD )

The underwater city didn't seem like impressive to me. Maybe it's because it was a static 2D background and much of everything else was 3D? The music builds and then open up on their home and it left me underwhelmed.

Speaking of that music, the background music Daniel Ingram came up with for those scenes is my favorite of the film. It has a soaring, ethereal sound to it and reminds me of the background music in a typical Miyazaki animated flick.

I think I'll end it there. It's not a bad movie but like others have said it doesn't take any chances, save for killing off the big, bad guy and showing minions running around after getting toasted by dragonfire. (And putting a dick joke in an MLP film - but they already did that when Spike poked Garble in a sensitive area back in S2. XD ) I wish they would have pushed the envelope further than they did, or at least made it more cerebral like "Zootopia."

It would have been interesting to see the original draft with the evil alicorn as the bad guy on the screen, though that too would have been another characters-on-a-journey story, and such stories are difficult to get right many times because of their inherent nature of constantly introducing new characters that disappear after the end of the chapter, rarely tying everything together in big "aha" moments that I have a personal preference for. While it's true everyone came together for the climax in this film, they didn't really do much with them other than be part of a Cavalry of sorts.

Agreed that Fluttershy's fear of dragons is one of those loose threads the show needs to tighten if not tie up entirely before the end of the series. It's not necessary to have her go to the Dragonlands to meet Ember, but some sort of meeting at some point between the two of them would make for an interesting premise.

Aren't Fluttershy and Discord already a semi-official couple? It seems like the show is already okay with an interspecies pairing.

18 hours ago, The Artist Formerly Known As A.V. said:

I've noticed that whenever a group of Dragons are anti-Pony, Garble seems to be the one egging them on -- e.g., Dragon Quest and Shadow Play.

This.

We don't really know much about how dragons really feel about other species since Garble is the one driving the negative opinion. If dragons were really bigoted about ponies you would think they would have acted more aggressively during the Great Migration instead of just flying overhead.

It would be cool if the ponies and Torch would have a face-to-face in a future episode (sans disguises). Learning how the former Dragon Lord feels about ponies might be a better indicator of any inherent specism than what we've seen so far.

Seeing the kind of crying Twilight did in "Zeppelin" is not something I'm sure I'd like to see a lot of. That kind of pain is just bit too difficult for me to watch as a regular occurrence, among any of the characters and not just Twilight.

@Twilight Kyle bringing up "AF" is a good example of the kind of crying I like to see. Moondancer's tears of joy was very effective (and made audiences like me feel happy instead of sad), and Twilight didn't need to show tears for how devastated she felt after realizing she messed up since the voice acting portrayed her sadness perfectly.

Another example is Spike - I felt more emotion when he sadly walked away after Twilight told him she lit the torch for him in "Equestria Games" than when he teared up after betraying Thorax in "TTAaC". (Though the latter was also admittedly fairly effective.)

Most of the things already discussed are things I'd like to see too, but I'd like to add the following:

Since we already had a Sparkle family epsiode last weekend, instead of a Sparkle family flashback in S8 (in the vein of Where the Apple Lies) like I originally envisioned it would be more focused on Shining and Spike. Shining needs more development and having a flashback where he shows off Spike to his O&O friends and becomes a popular curiosity (stealing time away from their gaming sessions in the process) which upsets Shining.

55 minutes ago, Jeric said:

It was a joke referencing the fact it was recently destroyed. I wasn't being serious.

Ah, my bad. clearly I have joined the ranks of the humor-impaired this morning. 

8 hours ago, Jeric said:

She'll be like ... "hey this statue seems kinda newish. What happened here?"

Would she? I don't recall the episode stating they built the statue before she disappeared. But I might be wrong...

I would think she'd be more dismayed they got so bent out of shape over the destruction of the statue rather than simply rebuilding it in the first place - and forgiving the pony that just rescued their town from disappearing forever.

20 hours ago, GrimGrimoire said:

I may not like Star Tracker getting in Twi's personal space so heavily, but I do and can understand it. Any hardcore fan would be just as awkward in the same situation,

I felt like it would have been just as easy to portray Star Tracker in a negative light compared to the sympathetic way they did eventually go with. Halfway through the episode, I was still left guessing whether he was just an awkward fan with personal space issues or would give us a big reveal where his bunk ceiling and walls were wallpapered with photos of his favorite alicorn. <_<

The fact that I couldn't predict his character is was what made it really interesting!

5 hours ago, The Artist Formerly Known As A.V. said:

 

At least they stuck with GOF's retcon that the ones from Dragon Quest were only bad because of Garble, and that most Dragons are actually a lot more down-to-Equestria than that.

True, that. I guess I just enjoyed learning dragons like to sleep on soft pillows just like every other species of this world and I really didn't learn anything new about them. The lava surfing was neat, but I'd expect dragons to be into that. At least Haber remembered dragons treat lava like it was water. 

5 hours ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

In Castle-Mania, the one playing the organ throughout the whole episode was Pinkie Pie, who thought everyone came to the castle to play a game. 

The Pony of Shadows was never really there. A.J. flat out said it was just a uncomfirmed legend that it may or may not still be hanging around the castle.

As for the Glowing eyes at the end, that was an weaked Tirek that would strike at the end of Season 4.

 

I remembered Pinkie was the one playing throughout most of the episode; it was that last shot that is causing the confusion. I agree with @The Artist Formerly Known As A.V. - I figured that was just Zecora trolling the Mane 6 after seeing TPoS was trapped all this time. But if you say the show runners have canonized it as Tirek, then I can accept that. Is there a link to a source or was it said at a con?

Just watched the last 4 episodes. My brief first impressions:

Secrets and Pies: @Dark Qiviut is right, this is a premise that went on for far too long. The episode needed to switch things up halfway through to keep it interesting. It has it's funny moments, but I was tired of it all by the second act.

Uncommon Bond: Geeze, Twilight - why don't you and Starburst get a room already? XD I loved how they geeked out over antiques. That is something I never knew about either of them. Leave it to Starlight to unseal the Mirror Pool to use it again.  Loved that they wondered whether any of the Pinkies were still roaming around down there right when it was revealed Maud's home really was part of the same cavern system. I was frustrated with the ending (of course) that they set up a life size version of Dragon Pit and didn't think to invite the actual real live dragon living in the castle to play. 

Shadow Play: This was the finale it seems we have been dreaming of for the last several seasons - a story that involves the entire Mane 6 again. But not only that, it also included Spike, Starlight, Starburst and even Celestia and Luna got involved. (Though I would think they should have been present to help send The Pony of Shadows back to Limbo.)

I geeked out when Spike got paired with Rainbow Dash for the first time ever in the series, and they both took on Garble of all dragons. I guess his hugging task was completed? XD The dragons were a bit too cardboard cutout compared to how they were in GoF, so that was a bit of a bummer.

I don't know how to reconcile the discontinuity between the villain here and the end of "Castle Mania." How could he be playing the organ if he was trapped in Limbo? 

It was way too predictable Starlight was going to be the one to solve the problem, and that's why I liked pt 1 better than pt 2. It was painful to see Twilight's idol treat her with such disdain. Hopefully they explore their relationship further next season, maybe in an episode where Twilight tries to explain to him what she did to fix his spell and give MMC a pseudo pt 2 like it deserves.

I like how everypony managed to stay. That and the movie (which I have yet to see) should give the series a lot of new stories to tell. Hopefully we'll get an episode where Celestia and Luna catch up with their beloved teacher again, though I guess they've shot down any fanon that Luna and Starswirl were romantically involved.

6 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Zeppelin debuted a new writer, but it's not Demers. It's Brittany Jo Flores.

Heh, I imagine Big Jim must have gotten production order mixed up with air order or something. I'm traveling for the next few weeks so I had to watch a stream and missed the writer. Well, then Ms Flores deserves the credit - here's hoping we see more of her!

5 minutes ago, Buttonmash1973 said:

And so the remains of S7 had been leaked.

Oy. Not sure how I'm going to be able to comment on all these episodes from a mobile device. I find these virtual keys difficult to operate and prefer to wait until I can get to a desktop computer...

On 10/2/2017 at 8:48 PM, Dark Qiviut said:

Pardon for the bump, but Zeppelin will debut a brand-new writer!

I hope he gets some more work in S8. He had a really good feel with all the characters' personalities in OUaZ.

59 minutes ago, MegaSean45 said:

Well, I do apologize for saying Spike is neglected. That clearly isn't the case. Turns out he just likes spending time alone.

Why though? That's the only question now. He's been really anti-social alot. I mean ever since Starlight, Ember, and Thorax came to the picture.... hmm... 

He just really cares a lot about Twilight, even if they do argue and compete from time to time. He really loves being her #1 assistant and he had no qualms over taking over her Princess duties to give her a break.

I just hope he didn't go overboard with it like that other time...  There's probably a fanfiction buried in there. 

Loved this episode. Shining and Flurry were hilarious. Never expected to see Iron Will be the antagonist. Stalker pony redeemed himself in the end. If he were a Pegasus he'd have a wingboner when Twilight hugged him. XD

If Starlight had somehow gone along, Iron Will would have found himself encased in crystal by the end of the first act. 

I loved the fanponies weren't written to be thoughtless and stupid like they were in F&M. They handled fandom a lot better here while still making an effective statement about us.

Excellent use of Spike here. A simple explanation of why he didn't go on the trip is all I need and wish they had done that the other few times this season his disappearance was noticable.

Also, he's an awesome friend as well as family member. 

15 hours ago, Mesme Rize said:

Then cry about it for all i care. He isn't and he never will

Holy shit did you ever get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning or something. 

That statement about him not being family is an opinion I'm diametrically opposed to as I can imagine. Besides numerous examples that show otherwise, they even stated it explicitly at the end of "Dragon Quest."

If there's a feeling lately like he's not part of Twilight's family, then that's a writing problem and should be brought to the attention of the show runners.

The thing with Spike is this: Past experience has taught us complaining works. The complaints over what was happening to his character is what brought the new and improved Spike in S6. If it feels like he's slipping into obscurity, it's fair to take notice of it.

Having said that, I'm not sure complaining here or any forum is the best place for it. It would be better to bring it up at a con Q&A since it's not clear whether anyone who needs to see it is ever going to read about it. Though I suppose a bit of venting is therapeutic.

Of course, if S8 ends up being the last season it's too late anyway since I'm pretty sure all of the S8 scripts are pretty much locked in at this point. <_<

The movie looks like it's going to be a really good animated flick to go see. Anyone complaining about the lack of cinematic 2D animation these days now has a chance to put up or shut up - from the scenes shown there isn't anything there to scare those audiences away.

On 9/24/2017 at 2:01 AM, Music Chart Fan said:

Twilight tries to recruit Fluttershy to give a second opinion for the cook-off between her and Spike, but who was the first opinion - each other? Can Twilight and Spike trust themselves and each other to objectively judge whether their own food or their competitor's food is better?

I have to believe they would draft Starlight into this role under normal circumstances - after all, she's living right there in the castle with them. She seems like she'd be pretty objective judge. (Though I suppose the cooking she allowed back in her village might be an argument against that! XD ) If the two of them relied on each other to judge each other's food, you're probably right that it would mostly end in a stalemate with each of them proclaiming their submission was better. They may love each other, but I'd like to think they still have the intense rivalry hinted at in earlier seasons.

On 9/25/2017 at 4:51 AM, Justin_Case001 said:

I'm glad they at least made a fair effort to explain away the magic conundrum.  I.e. they attempted to explain why Twilight couldn't instantly solve the honey problem with magic.  This was definitely another one of those cases where I kept asking, "Why can't Twilight just freaking teleport the honey out of there?!"  I would hope that if they ran out of time for Zecora and Fluttershy, Twilight would have said "f*ck it" and just killed the bees with magic and teleported the damn honey.

Even though I was also glad they tried to explain the failures, I still didn't get why she couldn't grab a glob of honey from a bunch of bees - angry and magical or not. But you hit on something really interesting: How far would have Twilight gone to save Fluttershy and Zecora's lives? If she couldn't teleport the honey out, she could have certainly used levitation to drill a hole in the bottom of the hive and drained it into a container. It would suck for the bees, but better than the alternative that you brought up - killing all of them to get the honey.

Now that would have been an interesting moral dilemma for Twilight: Does she kill the bees so her friends can live even though doing so might alienate her from Fluttershy forever? You would think she would be angry at Twilight for condemning an entire hive of bees to death just so she wouldn't turn into a tree, but then again Flutters did have no problem killing some of her fish friends to feed her other animal friends back in S1, so it's not quite as black and white as one might think - especially how motivated she was to get a cure for Zecora. Interesting possibilities to consider had the episode decided to go that route!

27 minutes ago, PathfinderCS said:

Apologies for that. Overslept and missed half the ep. Working on that now. ^^;;

I was almost - almost - expecting to see a "Where was Diamond Tiara?!? :v" response in the poll just like the Spike one in "Fame and Misfortune." XD

It's too bad Diamond Tiara didn't go along to help the CMC with their camp. It would have been funny to see her lose her stuff over Rumble's anti-cutie mark mutiny. XD

I liked the episode, it pretty much followed "To Change a Changeling" terms of depth - no deep messages about individuality but didn't make the antagonist fully conform. Like in that episode, Rumble saw the other side's POV but wasn't forced to change who he was personality-wise.

I just love that song. I'll probably be humming it all day.

Also this:

SB: What just happened?

S: Has everypony gone mad?

AB: In a word: Yes.

Sounds like me last November. 

5 minutes ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

Actually Thunderlane and his brother Rumble has one line of dialog each in the only episode where they had a line, S2's Hurricane Fluttershy.

(Paraphrased)

Thunderlane: (after a cough) It wasn't me; it was Blossomforth

Rumble: [Thunderlane] is in the hospital with the feather flu!

6 minutes ago, ggg-2 said:

Nope, he had dialogue in Hurricane Fluttershy. So did Rumble for that matter.

I remembered Rumble's dialogue, but I forgot Thunderlane had a line, too. Thanks!

Also:

Rumble the mutineer, lol. XD