Theory of Mind

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Theory of mind (often abbreviated ToM) is the ability to attribute mental states — beliefs, intents, desires, pretending, knowledge, etc. — to oneself and others and to understand that others have beliefs, desires, intentions, and perspectives that are different from one's own.

 

For many years we have been studying the mind of humans, and more recently, gorillas and apes. We communicate with them using sign language, and ask them questions, but never has it been recorded that an ape asked a question. The idea is, can a primate of sufficient intelligence be taught to have a theory of mind, or is this something that only humans can develop?

 

Michael talks about it in part in this Vsauce video.

 

What are your opinions, and do you think that we can get a member of another species to develop a ToM?

[Sunny Shimmer 259]

Of course the strawberry looks different to me. I'm colorblind.

[Fender 1,283]

That title of that video is a question I have asked (among a plethora of others,) since childhood. I have never known it to have a name, but Theory of Mind is something I have always wondered about and been fascinated by.

[Vemillia Nightshade 2,247]

That is rather interesting. I think I've heard the Theory of Mind thing thrown around before but this covers stuff that I myself haven't exactly even questioned. Honestly that video makes allot of sense about how similar but yet oh so different we are from each other. Just wow... I need a bit of time to process this.

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Now, I'd like to know more of how you all feel about being able to share information with another species on their point of view, to philosophize with them, and to learn from each other. If we could do this, even with someone (apes are people too) with the intelligence of a toddler, I would still be satisfied. Human toddlers have interesting views, so why wouldn't a gorilla or orangutan?

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

Apparently there was an experiment done with dolphins where they were able to identify a human's false belief of where an object was or something. I've read overall that dolphins seem to be the smartest non-human animal, so if anyone has a theory of mind, it's them.

[Justin_Case001 4,889]

I LOVE THIS STUFF.

 

I've have thought about all of this kind of stuff from a pretty young age.  I remember a family vacation when my older brother and I were pretty young--I forget what age, but obviously well past ToM age.  My brother posed the idea that colors could look different to everyone out of the blue.  (HA!  See what I did there?)  He had to explain it a few times before I got it.  He's fives years older than me, remember.  He insisted that what I call red, he might call blue, and to me the sky could appear what he would describe as blood red, and we'd never know it.  I insisted that we both still agree that red is red.  I don't call it something different than him.  But he explained that my red might look like his blue, but we both call the colors the same thing, and we agree that they're "hot" or "cold", simply because that's what we've been told, but they could look completely different to each of us.  If we could switch brains, maybe I'd shout, "Holy crap, you see the sky as red?!"  And he would say, "So do you!"  It blew my mind.  And he just came up with this on his own.

 

I've continued to ruminate on these sort of subjects all my life.  The ToM is such an important thing--what makes us human.  It's why I have never been comfortable or good at talking to pre-ToM children.  I don't like being around kids who haven't yet devoloped the ToM.  I've always heard it referred to as the "age of reason".  Same thing, I believe.  Like animals, young children can be curious, emotional, can communicate, etc, but the difference is being able to stop and think, "That other person has their own thoughts and feelings, too.  My actions have consequences.  What I do and say might help or hurt them."  I just have trouble communicating with a person who can't yet do that.

 

I'm not sure if any other species on Earth does or can ever develope a ToM.  It would be great if we could one day prove that dolphins or apes do.  Wouldn't it be awesome if one of these sign language gorillas asked some deep question?  I'm talking like, if a gorilla asked, with sign language, "Why am I here?"  And the trainer goes, "Um...because I drove you in my car?"  And the gorilla replies, "No, no, I mean, why are any of us here?  Why do I exist?"  That would just be like...BAM, the whole universe just exploded.

 

I wonder when/if we'll ever make contact with an extraterrestrial race, and how these theories will affect communication.  On Star Trek, aliens are always just humans with pointy ears or forehead ridges.  There's not much of an explanation gap.  I would think that the odds are that irl, an alien race would be much more different from us, and trying to understand each other may be like trying to explain color to the blind.  I hope we're able to do it, though.

 

All such fascinating stuff, though.  Alone with our perceptions and all...  Colors could look different to everyone, food could taste completely different.  That may be why one person thinks the color of these clothes is beautiful, and this food is delicious, and another person thinks it's hideous and starts to gag.  Perhaps someday we will have the ability to jump into someone else's conciousness and perceive everything as they do.  Somehow I think that that would solve all the world's problems.  Not just the Point-of-View Gun, but the Mental Perception Gun.

[s.slug 218]

philosophy vs. science.  I like the idea that we may all see colors differently, but i can't help but take into consideration how incredibly similar we are to one another.  We all share so many genetic similarities, why should 'the way we see things' be any different?  Unless of course there's a defect or mutation.  That's the way I think of it. 

Gorillas and monkeys, gorillas and monkeys...it's all about gorillas and monkeys.  Does anybody know who Dr. Irene Pepperberg is?  She studies avian intelligence.  Chances are you've seen some of her work/videos somewhere at some point.  She's done a bunch of work with the theory of mind in birds.  The books she has written are full of some really jaw-dropping stuff, including Alex the parrot(he was one of her birds) asking questions.  I'm a huge Alex fan, and he was featured in this video at 5:41.  I just had to comment.