Starlight's Impulse control

[Megas 27,765]

I'm certain at this point people who dislike Starlight this much is never gonna be happy no matter what they did with her

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

9 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

It worked out well here, but I'm troubled by the fact that this was done without the sisters' consent, and Starlight only got positive reinforcement for it. Compare to "Every Little Thing She Does," where both Twilight and the mane six express displeasure with her actions. I think she was punished for her misdeeds in that one, whereas in this one she's gonna be inspired to cast more spells on other ponies without their consent. It was the right move this time, but switching cutie marks appears to mean switching specialized magical skills (which is still confusing to me, admittedly), and that could have been serious. Starlight has no reason to be more careful next time, because nothing went wrong. She's probably gonna dismiss that nightmare as just being her worrying about nothing. If anyone else had done this I might have raised an eyebrow, but this doesn't seem that different from what Starlight did in earlier episodes where she was definitely in the wrong. 

Because she would not have gotten consent. They would have just kept bickering on and on, each one positive they were right and the other was wrong. Was it extreme, yes... but Starlight had the actual ability to force them to walk in each other shoes, which is what they needed. If only we could force others to sometimes see what someone else has to go through before they write them off or belittle them or disrespect them. How many here have had someone treat them like somehow inferior or less than what they felt they are, and have said to themselves "If only you could see things from my point of view" or "If only you had to deal with what I have to for a single day"? A whole hell of a lot considering some of the stuff i see and how many on here feel about their day to day lives.

And no she is not. She is more likely going to be inspired that her magic can help people with their problems if anything. She has already learned how using her magic to harm others or mistreat them or control them can work out and against her, so unless she specifically does it in show, as far as I am concerned it is in the past. As for the whole "without their consent" thing.... I dunno... I don't see her running around swapping cutie marks or bewitching townspeople this season. This was an extreme circumstance she fell back on when words were not working. Sure she could have tried talking more and and pushed harder, but hey, maybe the writers wanted to do that but got told to trim that 33 minute episode into a 23 minute episode. I am not saying she won't use her magic anymore, but let's quit the whole assuming she is out to be malevolent and take over the world.

Yes she does. Because she knows the consequences of her actions. She dreaded doing it this time, but as stated, she saw no other options and felt this was the right course of action. And all things considered she was very careful this time.. the spell had a fail safe... 24 hours. She has earned the others trust, and their friendship, and she does not want to break that. That is a whole lot of motivation. Sometimes people make tough choices, it is important to look at it from every angle instead of having a knee jerk reaction and just throwing that choice in a simple good or bad pile to not have to deal with thinking about it.

Good. I hope she does dismiss it and stop worrying so much and be confident in herself and her abilities. She can have powerful magic and use it the right way, to help others and protect those she cares about. She will always have the potential to make mistakes.... just like very other character.... she is not perfect and should not have to try to be. As long as she is learning from those mistakes and learning how to use her magic wisely and honestly, I don't see a problem.

And finally, just give it a rest.... it is no where near the same damn thing and everyone knows it. She did not control anyone, or enslave anyone or screw someone over... she cast a spell that made them see each others jobs for what they were, and as a result created a new found respect between them. She used her magic to directly help them when it looked like nothing else will. The biggest difference is in the past the magic she cast benefited her alone, and no one else, this time she got nothing out of it except the acknowledgement she helped them solve a problem they could not solve themselves. And before people drop the whole crap about talking it out.. it is a 23 minute cartoon show... we don't have enough time for a 30 part series where they talk about their feelings and solve them through rigorous counseling. And anyone in counseling knows this does not always work anyway.

It is fine if you dislike her, no problem at all. I think it is great if someone dislikes her or even hates her... but quit defining the episodes of TODAY by what happened YESTERDAY. She is evolving as a character and as such it is time for the people that dislike her to dislike the Starlight in the show right now, instead of the Starlight that pissed them off last season.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

35 minutes ago, GrimGrimoire said:

Because she would not have gotten consent. They would have just kept bickering on and on, each one positive they were right and the other was wrong. Was it extreme, yes... but Starlight had the actual ability to force them to walk in each other shoes, which is what they needed. If only we could force others to sometimes see what someone else has to go through before they write them off or belittle them or disrespect them. How many here have had someone treat them like somehow inferior or less than what they felt they are, and have said to themselves "If only you could see things from my point of view" or "If only you had to deal with what I have to for a single day"? A whole hell of a lot considering some of the stuff i see and how many on here feel about their day to day lives.

And no she is not. She is more likely going to be inspired that her magic can help people with their problems if anything. She has already learned how using her magic to harm others or mistreat them or control them can work out and against her, so unless she specifically does it in show, as far as I am concerned it is in the past. As for the whole "without their consent" thing.... I dunno... I don't see her running around swapping cutie marks or bewitching townspeople this season. This was an extreme circumstance she fell back on when words were not working. Sure she could have tried talking more and and pushed harder, but hey, maybe the writers wanted to do that but got told to trim that 33 minute episode into a 23 minute episode. I am not saying she won't use her magic anymore, but let's quit the whole assuming she is out to be malevolent and take over the world.

Yes she does. Because she knows the consequences of her actions. She dreaded doing it this time, but as stated, she saw no other options and felt this was the right course of action. And all things considered she was very careful this time.. the spell had a fail safe... 24 hours. She has earned the others trust, and their friendship, and she does not want to break that. That is a whole lot of motivation. Sometimes people make tough choices, it is important to look at it from every angle instead of having a knee jerk reaction and just throwing that choice in a simple good or bad pile to not have to deal with thinking about it.

Good. I hope she does dismiss it and stop worrying so much and be confident in herself and her abilities. She can have powerful magic and use it the right way, to help others and protect those she cares about. She will always have the potential to make mistakes.... just like very other character.... she is not perfect and should not have to try to be. As long as she is learning from those mistakes and learning how to use her magic wisely and honestly, I don't see a problem.

And finally, just give it a rest.... it is no where near the same damn thing and everyone knows it. She did not control anyone, or enslave anyone or screw someone over... she cast a spell that made them see each others jobs for what they were, and as a result created a new found respect between them. She used her magic to directly help them when it looked like nothing else will. The biggest difference is in the past the magic she cast benefited her alone, and no one else, this time she got nothing out of it except the acknowledgement she helped them solve a problem they could not solve themselves. And before people drop the whole crap about talking it out.. it is a 23 minute cartoon show... we don't have enough time for a 30 part series where they talk about their feelings and solve them through rigorous counseling. And anyone in counseling knows this does not always work anyway.

It is fine if you dislike her, no problem at all. I think it is great if someone dislikes her or even hates her... but quit defining the episodes of TODAY by what happened YESTERDAY. She is evolving as a character and as such it is time for the people that dislike her to dislike the Starlight in the show right now, instead of the Starlight that pissed them off last season.

the ability to FORCE them to walk in each others' shoes wasn't needed, when it could've been SUGGESTED, without magical macguffin ness. what happened to talking problems out, or proposing ideas, not -boom, magic. now here you go. no choice. Deal with each other's lives-?

also: " She has earned the others trust, and their friendship, and she does not want to break that."

yet she throws thing like cutie mark switching spells around, without prior notice, and basically tells the princesses to "deal with it". You expect trust NOT to be broken?

Edited May 21, 2017 by Nightmare Muffin

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,162]

As I said in another thread, I will say here again: NO MORE BACK AND FORTH, and enough with the baiting! The focus on this thread is apparent, so keep to that before we resort to further actions. We had to hide posts as a result.

Thank you.

[Thrond 3,263]

1 hour ago, GrimGrimoire said:

quote

 

I've thought about this more, and I'm going to retract some of my more extreme statements, but I'm still a little concerned by Starlight's first impulse being to cast a spell which has major effects on the target. She was also well-intentioned in "No Second Prances," and that wasn't viewed as an excuse. Mostly, though, I find myself viewing it in that light simply because so many of her episodes involve her using magic in an improper manner. In "A Royal Problem," she casts a pretty significant spell on the princesses without so much as warning them, and is praised for it later. I guess she's learned enough lessons about casting stuff on others that this does seem like a very extreme case, but I dunno, I'm not entirely convinced that it was a proportional response. Having the wrong cutie mark has been a cause of discomfort in the past, and Starlight literally swapped the princess's magical abilities, so this spell seems kinda serious. Stuff like this would be easier to accept for me if Starlight had more episodes where she wasn't impulsively doing something this significant with magic. Mostly, it's that she was praised without the sisters saying something like "warn us next time" that nags at me a little. I did like the episode quite a bit, though. 

However...

1 hour ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

the ability to FORCE them to walk in each others' shoes wasn't needed, when it could've been SUGGESTED, without magical macguffin ness. what happened to talking problems out, or proposing ideas, not -boom, magic. now here you go. no choice. Deal with each other's lives-?

also: " She has earned the others trust, and their friendship, and she does not want to break that."

yet she throws thing like cutie mark switching spells around, without prior notice, and basically tells the princesses to "deal with it". You expect trust NOT to be broken?

4

Not long after she casts the spell, we see both that Starlight isn't entirely certain of her decision, and that the princesses ultimately decide they can handle the change. And, yes, that change is temporary, so it appears some caution was taken with it. Plus, I do think the fact that she had a nightmare about it later is enough to show that she had doubts, and probably wouldn't do it again under less strenuous circumstances. I mean, she didn't cast that spell until it was clear that getting the sisters to talk wasn't gonna work. Unlike in "Every Little Thing She Does," casting a spell was Starlight's last resort, and it does matter that in the end the sisters were glad she did it. Plus, impulsiveness as Starlight's main flaw isn't necessarily that much worse than others' main flaw, and the map clearly deemed that impulsiveness to be important for solving the sisters' friendship problem. 

Edited May 21, 2017 by AlexanderThrond
wrong episode title

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

46 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

the ability to FORCE them to walk in each others' shoes wasn't needed, when it could've been SUGGESTED, without magical macguffin ness. what happened to talking problems out, or proposing ideas, not -boom, magic. now here you go. no choice. Deal with each other's lives-?

also: " She has earned the others trust, and their friendship, and she does not want to break that."

yet she throws thing like cutie mark switching spells around, without prior notice, and basically tells the princesses to "deal with it". You expect trust NOT to be broken?

Glad you like boring 30 part counselor sessions. I don't. I prefer a 23 minute cartoon show. See my point in my last part of my comment you quoted.

Yes I do. Because apparently in your viewpoint the princesses are abominable liars. Glad you think so highly of them to not trust what they themselves say. What you see as malignant, they were pleased with.... and it is rather tiring to have someone rewrite what they want to over what is already written right there on the screen. Either way, I am not going to argue about it, since nothing I can say will change your dislike for her character, and that is fine, I am not trying to change your mind... I repeat you are free to dislike Starlight, but please do not dislike her for something she is not doing this season. Quite talking about abuse and enslavement and all that other nonsense and stick to the facts of what the episode is about. You don't like that she used magic, cool... that is great. I am sure a lot dislike it, no harm no foul there, however, quit with the whole repeating stuff from S6 and saying she has not learned her lesson when they are night and days apart.

 

[Marimo 555]

13 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Unlike in "No Second Prances," casting a spell was Starlight's last resort

Every Little Thing She Does. No Second Prances was the Trixie episode.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Marimo