Season 7 finale

[Guest]

Wow that's some huge discussion here on my thread, am proud of myself.

*grabs popcorn*

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

15 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

They're accessories to Starlight proving her moral superiority.

I can’t really agree with this, mostly because I don’t think Starlight was in any sort of moral right. 

Stygian might have been wrongly treated by people that were his friends, but becoming host to a darkness god and trying to steal all light and hope from the world, (whatever that actually means) is not an appropriate response, just like going back in time to destroy someone’s friendships isn’t. Starlight isn’t trying to give Stygian a chance because he deserves one, she wants to give him a chance because she knows that sometimes a chance (or two, or three) is all you need to be a better person.

If Twilight had decided to banish Starlight, or put her in prison, Tartarus, etc. I don’t think that anyone would say she didn’t deserve it. And by the same hand, banishing Stygian wouldn’t have been a wrong thing to do, he was trying to do something evil. Banishing him wouldn’t have been any more wrong than banishing Luna to the moon, or turning Discord to stone, or sealing Tirek in Tartarus. 

Starlight was right in the end, and giving Stygian a chance did lead to a better outcome for everyone involved, but that doesn’t mean everyone else was really wrong to consider banishing the Pony of Shadows. 

[Nature Tune 8,392]

21 minutes ago, Cyraonubite said:

Wow that's some huge discussion here on my thread, am proud of myself.

*grabs popcorn*

lol, I love when that happens to me 

[Thrond 3,263]

2 hours ago, Lambdadelta said:

What is it? Why is one certain difference comics and the show speak about what's wrong with this show? Are comics better? I dont read them often. You know the show has more restraints than the comics, right!? Under some toy promotion agenda by a billion-dollar company, the writers still try to make some good things out of it, i think it is admirable.  

Starswirl in the comics is goofy and eccentric. Starswirl in the show is humourless and domineering. The latter, to me, reads like a character written to suit the plot.

1 hour ago, ShootingStar159 said:

I can’t really agree with this, mostly because I don’t think Starlight was in any sort of moral right. 

Stygian might have been wrongly treated by people that were his friends, but becoming host to a darkness god and trying to steal all light and hope from the world, (whatever that actually means) is not an appropriate response, just like going back in time to destroy someone’s friendships isn’t. Starlight isn’t trying to give Stygian a chance because he deserves one, she wants to give him a chance because she knows that sometimes a chance (or two, or three) is all you need to be a better person.

If Twilight had decided to banish Starlight, or put her in prison, Tartarus, etc. I don’t think that anyone would say she didn’t deserve it. And by the same hand, banishing Stygian wouldn’t have been a wrong thing to do, he was trying to do something evil. Banishing him wouldn’t have been any more wrong than banishing Luna to the moon, or turning Discord to stone, or sealing Tirek in Tartarus. 

Starlight was right in the end, and giving Stygian a chance did lead to a better outcome for everyone involved, but that doesn’t mean everyone else was really wrong to consider banishing the Pony of Shadows. 

I don’t remember this being discussed much in the episode. We see Starlight suggesting they try to understand the Pony of Shadows, then Starswirl says no, then she briefly doubts herself before quickly going back to learning more and trying to convince others. We barely see Twilight discuss, and Starswirl’s justifications don’t amount to anything more than “but he’s bad.” And because part 2 is focused on Starlight’s point of view. Starswirl just becomes another obstacle to overcome. So much time is wasted on exposition and object collecting which might have been used to further explore the human side of this. 

[CypherHoof 26,483]

13 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Starswirl in the comics is goofy and eccentric. Starswirl in the show is humourless and domineering. The latter, to me, reads like a character written to suit the plot.

Could still be the same character. A lot of arrogant people didn't start out that way - but somewhere along the line, they were so used to being "right" all the time, and being looked up to for advice, they lost the ability to accept they could themselves be wrong, or can still learn.

In addition it is possible that Starswirl, having made a snap judgement on Stygian, didn't want to face the possibility that he had wrongly condemned the unicorn who had brought them together and planned their missions, doubly so after Stygian was cast out and was tempted then consumed by the Pony of Shadows. Denial, rather than arrogance.

 

13 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I don’t remember this being discussed much in the episode. We see Starlight suggesting they try to understand the Pony of Shadows, then Starswirl says no, then she briefly doubts herself before quickly going back to learning more and trying to convince others. We barely see Twilight discuss, and Starswirl’s justifications don’t amount to anything more than “but he’s bad.” And because part 2 is focused on Starlight’s point of view. Starswirl just becomes another obstacle to overcome. So much time is wasted on exposition and object collecting which might have been used to further explore the human side of this. 

The idea that the hosts to dark forces could be more a victim than a culprit is explored fairly well in the EqG movies - both Sunset and SciTwi were tempted by an easy path to power, then overwhelmed - and were as much rescued as defeated.  Stygian may well have walked a similar path.

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

16 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I don’t remember this being discussed much in the episode.

It wasn’t, that’s kinda my point. Starlight wanting to talk it out is never treated like the only “morally superior” option, only a different one. You’re claiming that the rest of the characters are only there to make Starlight look like a saint, when I don’t agree that banishment was an evil decision to begin with, only one that ultimately turned out to be unnecessary. 

And it’s only unnecessary because... well, honestly, this has been gone over often enough, you know it’s because Starlight sympathized, etc, etc.

2 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

Could still be the same character. A lot of arrogant people didn't start out that way - but somewhere along the line, they were so used to being "right" all the time, and being looked up to for advice, they lost the ability to accept they could themselves be wrong, or can still learn.

I’ve wondered if it could have been Stygian’s “betrayal” and turn to the Pony of Shadows that made him adopt such a hardened outlook.

[Thrond 3,263]

2 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

The idea that the hosts to dark forces could be more a victim than a culprit is explored fairly well in the EqG movies - both Sunset and SciTwi were tempted by an easy path to power, then overwhelmed - and were as much rescued as defeated.  Stygian may well have walked a similar path.

I do feel that “Friendship Games” does most of what “Shadow Play” does better.

[Sketchy Tune 964]

I really like the finale. I love how they elaborated on how the elements came to be, and that they brought back Starswirl. I loved seeing how things came together and how Friendship prevails again, It was interesting in many ways but there were somethings that bothered me. Stygion's jealousy of the Pillars rivaled too much to Luna's to Celestia. They the who taken over by darkness... Luna anyone? Another thing... We were told of the pillars in legends. Weren't they in totally different areas, and TIME? Unless I'm wrong but I things they should have never met in the first place if this is true. Twilight was more like her Season 2 self. She has gone so far and to not listen to Starlight, that wasn't really Princess of Friendship-like. The episode was more like a Starlight episode and, I didn't mind! Bu, I think the Mane 6 shouldn't have been so lowered to the point where they actually agreed to do the banishing spell. 

[Thrond 3,263]

3 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

It wasn’t, that’s kinda my point. Starlight wanting to talk it out is never treated like the only “morally superior” option, only a different one. You’re claiming that the rest of the characters are only there to make Starlight look like a saint, when I don’t agree that banishment was an evil decision to begin with, only one that ultimately turned out to be unnecessary. 

And it’s only unnecessary because... well, honestly, this has been gone over often enough, you know it’s because Starlight sympathized, etc, etc.

I think that’s a large part of why I don’t like this episode. Its main conflict is resolved from the moment it begins, and the rest of the episode is waiting for everyone else to catch up. 

 

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

7 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I think that’s a large part of why I don’t like this episode. Its main conflict is resolved from the moment it begins, and the rest of the episode is waiting for everyone else to catch up. 

 

Maybe, but on the other hand, there were no magical macguffins or deus ex machinas as is usual with season finales. I appreciate the attempt at a different solution for a change.

Edited January 2, 2018 by ShootingStar159

[Thrond 3,263]

3 hours ago, ShootingStar159 said:

Maybe, but on the other hand, there were no magical macguffins or deus ex machinas as is usual with season finales. I appreciate the attempt at a different solution for a change.

The main conflict isn't solved by MacGuffins, but the entire first part is dedicated to collecting one set, and then the second half briefly features a second set. That first half doesn’t even contribute to anything more than setup.