Christian bronies: meet, greet, and mingle!

[Steel Accord 6,660]

But you haven't proved that Jesus actually existed and walked on Earth and said what he did and did what he did and was God and so on. If the Bible is true, then of course Jesus is true and is believable. But I'm not going to believe something because some book says so. Prove the book is true, prove that Jesus is true, and then your argument makes perfect logical sense. Until then, I could make the same argument for any other religion. Feeling does not dictate proof.

 

So MY belief, my personal belief that I hold in my heart must conform to your standards?

 

And as Kenton says, there are extra-biblical accounts of Jesus' existence.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Sunwalker 981]

But you haven't proved that Jesus actually existed and walked on Earth and said what he did and did what he did and was God and so on. If the Bible is true, then of course Jesus is true and is believable. But I'm not going to believe something because some book says so. Prove the book is true, prove that Jesus is true, and then your argument makes perfect logical sense. Until then, I could make the same argument for any other religion. Feeling does not dictate proof.

On a previous post I gave some arguments and posted a link with more. Here I give yet another: http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/resurrection-evidence.htm

 

For more, I can recommend this book:

Who is Jesus?: An Introduction to Christology

Thomas P. Rausch, SJ

(a good portion of it is available on Google Books)

 

---

 

Edit:

 

 

 

So MY belief, my personal belief that I hold in my heart must conform to your standards?

 

I think that this wasn't what he said. The question was just about evidence that the events you described occurred.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Sunwalker

[Knight Hadron 372]

So MY belief, my personal belief that I hold in my heart must conform to your standards?

This is the second time that I have thought that you were giving me a REASON for your beliefs, a logical reason. Instead, you were just stating why you FELT that your belief was true. Since your feelings do not "prove" anything, I disregarded your feelings because I thought we were debating, not you sharing your testimony. I'm sorry for offending you.

 

@@Sunwalker, If I ever find the time, I'll check out that book. And, I'll try to remember to check out your links. Thanks for the info.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

This is the second time that I have thought that you were giving me a REASON for your beliefs, a logical reason. Instead, you were just stating why you FELT that your belief was true. Since your feelings do not "prove" anything, I disregarded your feelings because I thought we were debating, not you sharing your testimony. I'm sorry for offending you.

 

@@Sunwalker, If I ever find the time, I'll check out that book. And, I'll try to remember to check out your links. Thanks for the info.

 

No it's all right. I've been debating on another thread and I'm a little wound up because of it.

 

I'm not sure, but I think I've seen your problem. You're having a crisis of faith at the most basic level. You are trying to logically justify a reason to believe. That can only take you so far though because of the very nature of not just Christianity, but ALL religions . . . faith itself.

 

You have to meet the Divine halfway, you have to take at least a small risk (even if it's just being wrong), "you have to take a leap of faith."

[Knight Hadron 372]

No it's all right. I've been debating on another thread and I'm a little wound up because of it.

 

I'm not sure, but I think I've seen your problem. You're having a crisis of faith at the most basic level. You are trying to logically justify a reason to believe. That can only take you so far though because of the very nature of not just Christianity, but ALL religions . . . faith itself.

 

You have to meet the Divine halfway, you have to take at least a small risk (even if it's just being wrong), "you have to take a leap of faith."

Then what makes Christianity worthy of that faith leap over any other belief system, theism or atheism? Why would God create a religion that required suppression of logical thought to believe in, and therefore, be saved? And why in the world would I want to make a leap of faith in the first place other than Pascal's Wager?

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Then what makes Christianity worthy of that faith leap over any other belief system, theism or atheism?

 

I never said it was, only that all religions and a good deal of theistic or atheistically indifferent ideals, at some point, must be taken on faith. I feel Christianity to be worth that chance . . . as well as Buddhism, but of course that doesn't stand up to your paradigm.

 

 

Why would God create a religion that required suppression of logical thought to believe in, and therefore, be saved?

 

 

Why would He create religion(s) you mean. In short, He didn't, humans did. Religions are how we grapple with faith, make that leap easier to do, like a bungee cord.

 

 

And why in the world would I want to make a leap of faith in the first place other than Pascal's Wager?

 

Well for one thing, Pascal's wager isn't true faith. It's acting in accordance with divine guidance on pain of it's equivalent punishment being true. Taking a leap of faith that, for instance, the "Gilda like" apparent jerk is truly good at heart can net you a lifelong friend (speaking from experience here.)

 

One can't live life playing it %100 safe, they'd go mad. You yourself clearly aren't enjoying the state you are in. No one's saying you have to abandon logic or your worldview, just build trust that when you fall back, someone will catch you.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Sunwalker 981]

Then what makes Christianity worthy of that faith leap over any other belief system, theism or atheism?

 

The difference with Christianity from all other religions is the direction in which the relationship with God happens. In Christianity it is God who comes down to Earth to us. Are limited humans capable of reaching God Himself? It is necessary for Him to come to us so otherwise we would not be able to reach it.

  

 

Why would God create a religion that required suppression of logical thought to believe in, and therefore, be saved?

 

To abandon logical thought? This is denying all Theology and Christian Philosophy. And also you got rational answers here.

 

There is nothing wrong with learning about God, and you can do it as much you want. This is one of the reasons he gave us intelligence and the Bible even say for you to be ready to explain the reasons of your faith (1 Peter 3:15). This is the opposite of abandoning logical reasoning.

 

But God is not a puzzle, he is a person. Just having theoretical knowledge is not enough, though it is not wrong. You still need to relate with him. Faith means to trust in God, and Faith requires the Grace of God, which means you need to be open for it and even ask for it. 

 

  

And why in the world would I want to make a leap of faith in the first place other than Pascal's Wager?

 

One cannot know everything about all things, at some point you will have to trust. But it is not wrong to seek learning more, though.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Sunwalker

[Royal Bro-nee 36]

Trying to understand here. Was Knight being offensive against Christianity or was he just looking for answers? Correct me if im wrong for the first part. (the offending Christianity part) please correct me if im wrong about that.

[Sudo Krenton 243]

I was gonna post this last night, but I couldn't find my notes on them until just now... and it was getting late anyway. Anyhow, here they are. I'm not sure exactly why, but the conversation from yesterday reminded me of them.

 

Christianity is strange; it bids man to recognize that he is vile and even abominable, and bids him to want to be like God. Without such a counterweight, his exaltation would make him horribly vain or his abasement horribly abject.

 

No other religion has proposed that we should hate ourselves. No other religion therefore can please those who hate themselves and seek a being who is really worthy of love. And if they had never heard of the religion of a humiliated God, they would at once embrace it.

 

 

 

Trying to understand here. Was Knight being offensive against Christianity or was he just looking for answers? Correct me if im wrong for the first part. (the offending Christianity part) please correct me if im wrong about that.

He's trying to prove to himself that what he believes in is true, i.e. God exists, and so on. He is not being offensive against Christianity.

 

 

 

Then what makes Christianity worthy of that faith leap over any other belief system, theism or atheism? Why would God create a religion that required suppression of logical thought to believe in, and therefore, be saved? And why in the world would I want to make a leap of faith in the first place other than Pascal's Wager?

Well shoot. x'D I was going to quote Pascal's wager, but you already know. I personally don't that it is a suppression of logical thought(Sunwalker put it better), I more think of it as something hard to follow due to the assumed "lack of miracles." Miracles that happen over and over again get discredited as not being miracles, stuff like that. In my opinion, it's just as big a leap of faith for atheism, as you have a good portion of the world worshiping gods, and you're not. You're risking that you could be wrong. It's just that with atheism, it's not really considered a "leap of faith."(that would make it sound like atheism is a religion) 

[Sunwalker 981]

Trying to understand here. Was Knight being offensive against Christianity or was he just looking for answers? Correct me if im wrong for the first part. (the offending Christianity part) please correct me if im wrong about that.

He was just looking for answers.

 

By the way, @Royal Bro-nee, I have also replied to your yesterday's questions, but they got quickly buried by other posts. Here are them in case you missed: https://mlpforums.com/topic/44444-christian-bronies-meet-greet-and-mingle/?p=4010876

[Royal Bro-nee 36]

Thank you Sunwalker ! Btw I love your avatar lol. I should start watching more eps of that show >_< lol.

[Sunwalker 981]

Thank you Sunwalker ! Btw I love your avatar lol. I should start watching more eps of that show >_< lol.

You are welcome!

 

I chose this avatar because I identify myself with Wander's personality . By the way, Lord Hater is best pony villain!

 

[I used to be a stranger 7,993]

This post has been redacted by the author.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Blue

[Steel Accord 6,660]

You're poisoning the waters of discussion by framing the word "faith" with "suppression of logic".

To be fair, I was the one who framed the question of "faith." Knight was just continuing off of what I started.

 

@@Knight Hadron,

 

 

 

Faith means confidence in a belief. Beliefs can be held with lots of evidence, some evidence or no evidence, which means faith works independently of proof.   It is obvious that your understanding is that there is insufficient basis to assume that Christianity is true as per evidences and substantiations for faith in Jesus. Compare the fact that I think there is overwhelming evidence for Jesus and his claims about himself, as well as insufficient basis for other truth-claims of equatable strength.   Unless you're presuming your perception is the be-all end-all of knowledge on the matter, it looks like you're asking us to start from the beginning. "What proof is there for Christianity?"

 

 

Nevertheless, Blue does have a point. 

Edited August 12, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Royal Bro-nee 36]

But you haven't proved that Jesus actually existed and walked on Earth and said what he did and did what he did and was God and so on. If the Bible is true, then of course Jesus is true and is believable. But I'm not going to believe something because some book says so. Prove the book is true, prove that Jesus is true, and then your argument makes perfect logical sense. Until then, I could make the same argument for any other religion. Feeling does not dictate proof.

Edit: I haven't read all ur posts, im srry XD now I understand (super late edit, meant to do this a month ago)

Edited September 6, 2015 by Royal Bro-nee

[Steel Accord 6,660]

I shall pray for you Knight. I shall pray that someday you will learn that Jesus DOES exist. Usually I would get kinda mad at people that keeps asking for proof like that but you don't know any better. If someday you DO believe in Jesus then please ask for his forgiveness. He will forgive you... (guys I hope im saying the right things here >_<). Feel free to look up Jesus quotes to. Jesus be saying some very good things! Have a nice day and God Bless.

 

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

-Jesus Christ

@@Knight Hadron, 

 

Knight isn't doubting the existence of Jesus Christ dude, he's looking for a reason to follow Christianity as a religion. He has been Christian for as long as I've known him and his faith is just shaking. He's not someone from the outside trying to take us down, he's one of us, a brother and brony in Christ (like many whether they admit it or not). He is just going through a hard time right now.

 

By all means pray for him, but make sure they are for the right reasons.

 

"(guys I hope im saying the right things here >_<)"

 

The parts I highlighted betray a haughtiness you may not (or may indeed) have intended. "You don't know any better?" "He will forgive you?" Can you think of anything that makes people feel marginalized faster than condescension phrased like support?

Edited August 14, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Royal Bro-nee 36]

@@Knight Hadron, 

 

Knight isn't doubting the existence of Jesus Christ dude, he's looking for a reason to follow Christianity as a religion. He has been Christian for as long as I've known him and his faith is just shaking. He's not someone from the outside trying to take us down, he's one of us, a brother and brony in Christ (like many whether they admit it or not). He is just going through a hard time right now.

 

By all means pray for him, but make sure they are for the right reasons.

WOW! Im very sorry Steel >_< I had no idea thats all it was. Wow... x_x can you forgive me Steel? I probably shouldn't jump to conclusions. God forgive me. Steel..Knight...can yall forgive me? Im very sorry >.< I feel kinda mean.... Steel and Knight I hope that yall can forgive me. But I shall still pray for Knight. Again im sorry. I gotta stop doing that x_x.

[Sunwalker 981]

WOW! Im very sorry Steel >_< I had no idea thats all it was. Wow... x_x can you forgive me Steel? I probably shouldn't jump to conclusions. God forgive me. Steel..Knight...can yall forgive me? Im very sorry >.< I feel kinda mean.... Steel and Knight I hope that yall can forgive me. But I shall still pray for Knight. Again im sorry. I gotta stop doing that x_x.

 

I will pray for you! But you do not need to feel this bad. You meant well, you understood your mistake, and you apologized for it; there is no more need to feel bad

 

You are forgiven!

[Royal Bro-nee 36]

I will pray for you! But you do not need to feel this bad. You meant well, you understood your mistake, and you apologized for it; there is no more need to feel bad

 

You are forgiven!

Yayy! I still need to stop jumping to conclusions over things like this though. And thanks for the prayer . Im gonna go relax for now..its 1 AM but I usually go to bed at 3 AM. Ill talk to yall later!

 

God Bless

[Sunwalker 981]

Yayy! I still need to stop jumping to conclusions over things like this though. And thanks for the prayer . Im gonna go relax for now..its 1 AM but I usually go to bed at 3 AM. Ill talk to yall later!

 

God Bless

 

You are welcome. By the way, it is 2:20 AM here .

 

See you later, God bless!

[Sudo Krenton 243]

Hey guys,

 

So a friend of mine in one of the skype chats I'm in told us(the people in the skype chat) yesterday that he was going to, essentially, estrange himself from his family(he is of legal age to live by himself). Today, he has apparently has disappeared(about 6 hours ago by now), saying something along the lines of "we may meet again in a new world."

 

It sounds like he left his computer open, because one of his friends was trying to find out where he had disappeared to via the skype account left open to our chat. Yesterday, he had made it seem that he would still keep in contact with us, regardless of his decisions, but seeing that he abandoned skype and did not tell us that he was leaving already or his plans, none of us know what has become of him. We don't know when we will hear from him or if he will change his mind in the future and return home. At any rate, his parents from what I have heard are disinclined to reach out to the police or others, and none of his real life friends know where he is or his plans.

 

Keep him in prayer. He's been going through a lot.

 

Edit: He was found(alive) a few blocks away hiding out at a house. His family and him (grammar?) are still at odds with each other though, as far as I know.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Sudo Krenton

[Sunwalker 981]

Edit: He was found(alive) a few blocks away hiding out at a house. His family and him (grammar?) are still at odds with each other though, as far as I know.

 

It is good to hear he is alive. I am still praying for him

[Guest90210 3,568]

I found another story about Jesus, this time while reading some Baha'i literature, that I think you guys will like.

 

"One must see in every human being only that which is worthy of praise. When this is done, one can be a friend to the whole human race. If, however, we look at people from the standpoint of their faults, then being a friend to them is a formidable task.

 

It happened one day in the time of Christ—may the life of the world be a sacrifice unto Him—that He passed by the dead body of a dog, a carcass reeking, hideous, the limbs rotting away. 

 

One of those present said: “How foul its stench!” And another said: “How sickening! How loathsome!”. To be brief, each one of them had something to add to the list.

 

But then Christ Himself spoke, and He told them: “Look at that dog’s teeth! How gleaming white!”.The Messiah’s sin-covering gaze did not for a moment dwell upon the repulsiveness of that carrion. The one element of that dead dog’s carcass which was not abomination was the teeth: and Jesus looked upon their brightness.

 

Thus is it incumbent upon us, when we direct our gaze toward other people, to see where they excel, not where they fail. Praise be to God, thy goal is to promote the well-being of humankind and to help the souls to overcome their faults. This good intention will produce laudable results."

 

 

It is good to hear he is alive. I am still praying for him

 

As will I. Hope he's doing well

[Inactive01 5,299]

Well I've had to live with anxiety and sadness for the whole summer, and while I'm recovering, I'm still hurt inside. Can you guys pray so I can learn to rely more on Jesus? Thanks.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Well I've had to live with anxiety and sadness for the whole summer, and while I'm recovering, I'm still hurt inside. Can you guys pray so I can learn to rely more on Jesus? Thanks.

 

Yeah, no problem Sterling. Just hang in there, okay buddy?