Need help with a villain OC

[Dreadmallon 353]

If somepony(-ies) would allow me to PM them about an OC of mine/my ideas for them and give me some feedback, I'd greatly appreciate it

[Midnight Seeker 302]

I'm just heading to bed myself, but if you want to PM me, I'll get back to you tomorrow with what I think and any advice I think I can give.

[HunterTSN 1,444]

Okay, here we go

lesson 1 - appearance:

First make him black. Then make him and alicorn with bat wings. Then give him red eyes. Then make those eyes slits like a snake. Then give him a spiky red mane and tail. Also make him incredibly buff. For clothes give him a red cape and lots of spikes so he looks extra cool. He also needs to glow red whenever he is angry.

 

lesson 2 - abilities:

since hez a villain he needs to be able to shoot lasers from his eyes. He should also have super strength and nopony anywhere is stronger than him. Also he should be immortal and he can't ever lose.

 

lesson 3 - personality

Skip this lesson

 

lesson 4 - show him off

now that you have such an awesome and evil oc you need to make all your friends see him, if they dont like him then do mean things to them until they say they do. then talk about him all the time until pretty soon everyone will love him and praise you on your oC skillz.

 

if you followed all these lessons then your villain will be the coolest one ever and if someone says different hit them.

Edited February 14, 2013 by thesteampunkninja

[Skygunner 352]

why not just post it here and forgo the whole PM thing?  

 

If it's something that isn't really good for the public eye to see, I doubt it's something I want appearing in my PM box....

[Fluttermena 1,223]

I'd be glad to help with the OC if I can, but why do it with PMs? Why not just post your questions directly in the thread? It would make it easier for everyone to share and compare ideas. 

 

 

Okay, here we go

lesson 1 - appearance:

First make him black. Then make him and alicorn with bat wings. Then give him red eyes. Then make those eyes slits like a snake. Then give him a spiky red mane and tail. Also make him incredibly buff. For clothes give him a red cape and lots of spikes so he looks extra cool. He also needs to glow red whenever he is angry.

 

lesson 2 - abilities:

since hez a villain he needs to be able to shoot lasers from his eyes. He should also have super strength and nopony anywhere is stronger than him. Also he should be immortal and he can't ever lose.

 

lesson 3 - personality

Skip this lesson

 

lesson 4 - show him off

now that you have such an awesome and evil oc you need to make all your friends see him, if they dont like him then do mean things to them until they say they do. then talk about him all the time until pretty soon everyone will love him and praise you on your oC skillz.

 

if you followed all these lessons then your villain will be the coolest one ever and if someone says different hit them.

 

Obvious troll is obvious.

[Dreadmallon 353]

why not just post it here and forgo the whole PM thing?  

 

If it's something that isn't really good for the public eye to see, I doubt it's something I want appearing in my PM box....

 

 

You make a good point.

 

To summarize my villain, he's the opposite of Twilight Sparkle, somewhat. As she was taught under Celestia, he was trained under Nightmare Moon.

As the backstory is very rusty (and is open for much change, that's why I'm asking for help), I'll just tell you a small summary that leads up to what I'm planning: He was a former (older; age 12 whilst Twilight was 8) classmate and friend of Twilight, and was killed (not yet determined by what) soon after she became Celestia's student. He was brought back to life by Nightmare Moon, who craved revenge, when she observed his magical ability (she observed this through a group of witches who admired/worshipped her). She tricked him into believing that everyone else was the enemy, and offered him his body back and revenge in order for his assistance. He accepted, and she trained him. It's horrible, I know. But it's one of the only things I can think of at the moment, and that again, is why I'm asking. To become better at writing and getting ideas. (Thinking about him being drafted into the Royal Guards, and that's how he eventually dies, but I don't have confidence in that)

 

Anyway, he's supposed to armor similar to Nightmare Moon's. However, he is smaller (about current-Luna's size) and his helmet covers his whole face, except his eyes (that is something I'm wondering about). And, obviously, because he's a stallion, his body is "different" than a typical character in MLP (mares). He, himself, is a skeleton underneath the armor, however.

Nightmare Moon communicates to him by "transforming" his body in a way, and being a part of his conscience. You see, Nightmare Moon is supposed to give a portion of her power to him, and in doing so, her dark magic acts very similar to "the symbiote" from the Spider-Man franchise. However, rather than just amplifying his power, it is also the only thing keeping him from crumbling to a pile of bones.

New Moon (new alias) is at most, comparable to Cadance or Shining Armor in terms of power. He specializes with illusions and offensive spells. However, he also has similar powers to Nightmare Moon, such as turning into mist (a gray fog for him, though) and manipulation of weather. Remember though that these powers are weaker than what we saw from Nightmare in the first two episodes, as this is a portion of her strength. He has advantages over Twilight, as he knows her strengths and weaknesses, and his identity is not revealed until later on in the story. Also, he was consistently trained by Nightmare Moon, whilst Twilight mainly studies and is with her friends. However, he is very weak to light magic (a type of magic I plan on creating in the story), and he is slightly arrogant, like his trainer.

As somewhat Twilight's school rival, he is also rather intelligent, and will typically rely on plans and strategies rather than fighting.

Personality-wise, I'd like him to be like Mewtwo from Mewtwo Strikes Back. Basically, for those who haven't seen the movie, that means cruel and serious, with a hint of arrogance (as stated before).

 

His goal is to do exactly what Nightmare Moon did: try to bring eternal night. However, he does this differently by trying to access an ancient power within old ruins within the Crystal Mountains (look at Equestrian map).

 

What I've gathered about his role, thus far, is that after he appears, first encounters the Mane 6, and temporarily sides with the Diamond Dogs (who prove to be an unfavorable ally), he meets with Chrysalis, and forges an uneasy alliance after convincing her that he'd be useless to try to capture (as the changelings capture to feed off love). He does this not only as a way to get to the Crystal Mountains without a threat (the changelings in my story are trying to get revenge on SA and Cadance), but also to get the changelings as himself so he can masquerade (with the help of Chrysalis' magic) as a common criminal (who claims to work for "New Moon") with the intention of getting caught within Ponyville. He plans to develop a good friendship with the Mane 6, with the intent of betraying them and hurting them mentally (as he believes they are more of a threat than Celestia and Luna because of the Elements: Oh, and by the way, Nightmare Moon is a literally a shadow of her former self, as she is made up of the darkness that was ripped away from Luna in the first two episodes). However, complications arise when he actually does develop a friendship with them, and is forced to betray them nonetheless by Nightmare Moon, who is in partial control of his body.

 

 

Please don't be too harsh. I know it sounds like a bad OC. Please be sure to add suggestions along with your criticisms.

Edited February 14, 2013 by New Moon

[Pixel Stick 927]

Definitely some interesting ideas there.  I'd been thinking recently about a villain that had something to do with Luna - perhaps her equal in intellect or magic ability, and with a grudge specifically against her for some reason.  (I mean, lots of ponies might have grudges with Luna due to the Nightmare Moon thing, but...)

 

I think you're on to something there, and I don't think it's a bad OC at all.  One thing I might suggest is, since Nightmare Moon is supposedly destroyed now, you might incorporate her absence (or whatever incorporeal shades of her are left) into his personality - perhaps the fact that she was defeated and turned back into Luna might be slowly driving him mad, or have already done so.  Perhaps he seeks revenge for her demise, or perhaps he thinks Luna killed her and that's why he's intent on harming her any way he can.

 

I'm working on a Luna story myself (I have a bare draft up in the fan-fic section already, but I'm in the process of greatly expanding on it), which focuses on her musings about her troubled past and how it affects her present role.  One thing I've been toying with is the idea that Nightmare Moon might not be completely gone - Luna realizes she's always at risk of becoming Nightmare Moon again, and has to stay forever vigilant.  It could be interesting to have a villain perceptive enough to realize that and use it to his advantage.

 

Whatcha think?

[GC13 17]

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

Whoooooooosh!

 

That sound you hear is the sound of the entire point of another post's post going right over someone's head. Amazing.

[Dreadmallon 353]

Definitely some interesting ideas there.  I'd been thinking recently about a villain that had something to do with Luna - perhaps her equal in intellect or magic ability, and with a grudge specifically against her for some reason.  (I mean, lots of ponies might have grudges with Luna due to the Nightmare Moon thing, but...)

 

I think you're on to something there, and I don't think it's a bad OC at all (1).  One thing I might suggest is, since Nightmare Moon is supposedly destroyed now, you might incorporate her absence (or whatever incorporeal shades of her are left) into his personality - perhaps the fact that she was defeated and turned back into Luna might be slowly driving him mad, or have already done so.  Perhaps he seeks revenge for her demise, or perhaps he thinks Luna killed her and that's why he's intent on harming her any way he can (2).

 

I'm working on a Luna story myself (I have a bare draft up in the fan-fic section already, but I'm in the process of greatly expanding on it), which focuses on her musings about her troubled past and how it affects her present role.  One thing I've been toying with is the idea that Nightmare Moon might not be completely gone - Luna realizes she's always at risk of becoming Nightmare Moon again, and has to stay forever vigilant.  It could be interesting to have a villain perceptive enough to realize that and use it to his advantage (3).

 

Whatcha think?

 

1.) Thank you. I appreciate the compliment, as I try to focus on the readers and what they'll like. If they don't like it, I change it.

2.) I somewhat do like that idea. However, New Moon is driven by the death of his parents (which I'm trying to incorporate into the story somehow) and what he saw as betrayal prior to his death. But I do like Nightmare Moon's personal conflicts also having effect on him, as she is somewhat his conscience after she gives him her power. I'll try to include that, but I'd rather not have him being "mad" at all. He is supposed to be a "Darth Vader"-esque character (with obvious modifications). When I say that, I mean personality-wise (combination of Dusk's and Nightmare Moon's), and somewhat role-wise.

3.) I personally like that idea. Dusk is supposed to have that issue as well in a sequel exclusive to him (which I have planned out, but I don't know how to connect it to this story, as I want Dusk to be killed off; I suppose it looks like he is, when he isn't:?)

[Skygunner 352]

I suppose my first question would be,   "why is he evil"

 

 

He's dead...that's cool, I like dead things, my avatars a dead thing,  dead's good.   And Nightmare Moon offers to bring him back to life if he becomes evil yes?   So...he's stronger than Nightmare moon,  right?   Because,  that's why she's bringing him back right?  She wants to use his powers.

 

It doesn't' really seem like anytime when he was alive that he was a vengeance seeking,  hate driven critter.  Does he miss being alive so much that he deems it worth being evil and nefarious?   Logically,  if he's dead....but in a state where ponies such as Nightmare Moon can contact him,  he clearly has some form of "presence".  Is that form really so bad,  and his life really that good that he would take a new life of seclusion and hatred over it?

 

I

[Dreadmallon 353]

I suppose my first question would be,   "why is he evil"

 

 

He's dead...that's cool, I like dead things, my avatars a dead thing,  dead's good.   And Nightmare Moon offers to bring him back to life if he becomes evil yes?   So...he's stronger than Nightmare moon,  right (1)?   Because,  that's why she's bringing him back right?  She wants to use his powers.

 

It doesn't' really seem like anytime when he was alive that he was a vengeance seeking,  hate driven critter (2).  Does he miss being alive so much that he deems it worth being evil and nefarious?   Logically,  if he's dead....but in a state where ponies such as Nightmare Moon can contact him,  he clearly has some form of "presence".  Is that form really so bad,  and his life really that good that he would take a new life of seclusion and hatred over it?

 

I

 

1.) Nightmare Moon sees potential in Dusk, like how Celestia saw potential in Twilight. He is not stronger than Nightmare Moon as Dusk, nor as New Moon. He's more on par with the likes of Cadance or Shining Armor. The reasoning is that, since he's basically a walking skeleton with armor and an artificial coat, his magic is almost completely diminished (however, the power he still has is somewhat "kept alive" and amplified by Nightmare Moon), something Nightmare Moon didn't expect. The magic he uses is from the portion of power Nightmare Moon gave him.

 

2.) I'm trying to work that in. Planning on being cliche on having the death of his parents being a motivation (like Nightmare Moon uses her trickery to make it seem like that was Celestia's/Royal Guard's fault; this would work not because Dusk would look like a gullible idiot, but his parents died early when he was a colt. As a result, he doesn't know how they died, until Nightmare Moon seemingly shows him.

Edited February 15, 2013 by New Moon

[Skygunner 352]

You sorta mention it in your post already,   but I really can not think of a way to make your character go "evil"  unless he's also relatively stupid.   The pony world is relativly black and white,   especially when we're considering Nightmare Moon  vs  Princess Celestia

 

 

you'd have to have the intellect of a sponge to believe anything Nightmare Moon says over Celestia. She's bad,  she's designed to be bad,  her physical look and appearance are all things generally associated with being bad.   Even without conditioning, she's the embodiment of something that most humans (and ponies?) generally are afraid of,   darkness.

 

 

This leads into my next point...Nightmare moon exists in 1 of 3 states.

 

 

 

1 - Physical,   and keeping the moon up,  with all ponies asleep.    

 

2 - On the MOOOOOOON,  banished there by her sister,  allowing all other ponies to go back to a normal day/night cycle

 

3 - Non-existant,  replaced with the not-evil  princess luna.

 

 

 

Where exactly does your pony fit in with this whole scheme?   The only state she exists in that she can really ever want to have her own little  animated flesh bag would be the 1st stage,  but then all the ponies are asleep anyway, so what would she do with a drone anyway?  She's in full "screw you guys I'm going home" mode there,   if she doesn't get to have fun, no one gets too, perpetual darkness for everybody.  And because old time ponies are dumb they fall asleep until the sun rises,  maybe they are rooster driven, who knows.   Point is,   What use is the reanimated pony to her?  

[Pixel Stick 927]

 

This leads into my next point...Nightmare moon exists in 1 of 3 states.

1 - Physical, and keeping the moon up, with all ponies asleep.

2 - On the MOOOOOOON, banished there by her sister, allowing all other ponies to go back to a normal day/night cycle

3 - Non-existant, replaced with the not-evil princess luna.

 

Where exactly does your pony fit in with this whole scheme? The only state she exists in that she can really ever want to have her own little animated flesh bag would be the 1st stage, but then all the ponies are asleep anyway, so what would she do with a drone anyway? She's in full "screw you guys I'm going home" mode there, if she doesn't get to have fun, no one gets too, perpetual darkness for everybody. And because old time ponies are dumb they fall asleep until the sun rises, maybe they are rooster driven, who knows. Point is, What use is the reanimated pony to her?

 

As far as we've seen, those states are correct.  But in the world of fanfic, I posit there's a fourth state: Incorporeal: She's still around, but not in a physical form.  A supernatural fragment left behind from her physical destruction.  One that might have the power to possess another pony.  (Just one of many possible different angles... )

[Skygunner 352]

Yes well...in fan fiction I suppose "anything" is possible,   but if that's the justification then what point does it matter to make a firm believable back story?  

 

The issue still seems to revolve around,   "why this particular pony".   Yes, he is a talented one.....but is he more skillful than Nightmare moon?   If he's not then he'll be of little use to her, regardless of form as Celestia has already taken top trump over Nightmare Moon. Basic logic states that he won't be able to do much to Celestia,  at least nothing major like liking her away in the sun and freeing Nightmare Moon. 

Edited February 16, 2013 by Skygunner

[Circadian 1,273]

if you followed all these lessons then your villain will be the coolest one ever and if someone says different hit them.

 

 

Perhaps with the help of his new symbiote friend he can enter dreams as well? To plant false information, spread fear via nightmares, etc.

 

A motivation could possibly be anger at the current inaction of Celestia and Luna. I mean, they really do put all of Equestria's problems on Twilight and friends. Maybe they have no other choice because they're no longer connected to the Elements but don't want to reveal how weak they've actually become. I suppose Celestia could have been bluffing about her power for 1000 years. 

 

Anyway, Dusk is a kewl name.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Circadian

[Limey 524]

Okay, here we go

lesson 1 - appearance:

First make him black. Then make him and alicorn with bat wings. Then give him red eyes. Then make those eyes slits like a snake. Then give him a spiky red mane and tail. Also make him incredibly buff. For clothes give him a red cape and lots of spikes so he looks extra cool. He also needs to glow red whenever he is angry.

 

lesson 2 - abilities:

since hez a villain he needs to be able to shoot lasers from his eyes. He should also have super strength and nopony anywhere is stronger than him. Also he should be immortal and he can't ever lose.

 

lesson 3 - personality

Skip this lesson

 

lesson 4 - show him off

now that you have such an awesome and evil oc you need to make all your friends see him, if they dont like him then do mean things to them until they say they do. then talk about him all the time until pretty soon everyone will love him and praise you on your oC skillz.

 

if you followed all these lessons then your villain will be the coolest one ever and if someone says different hit them.

 

 

 

But, in all seriousness:

Maybe a misunderstood inventor (not properly evil), he builds some stuff for ponies, said inventions go wrong, he gets booed or chased out of town. Bitter, he builds up an army of robots to attack ponyville (robotic copies of the mane 6 for bonus points)

 

Mane 6 fights their way through the horde and teach the inventor the magic of friendship. Happy ending for all.

 

-Beating up emotionless robots, awesome fighting scenes but still child freindly.

-Villian gets rehabilitated in the end, Discord style.

 

Win win in my book.

 

Anyway, hope this helps!

Edited February 16, 2013 by Spess

[Dreadmallon 353]

 

 

 

But, in all seriousness:

Maybe a misunderstood inventor (not properly evil), he builds some stuff for ponies, said inventions go wrong, he gets booed or chased out of town. Bitter, he builds up an army of robots to attack ponyville (robotic copies of the mane 6 for bonus points)

 

Mane 6 fights their way through the horde and teach the inventor the magic of friendship. Happy ending for all.

 

-Beating up emotionless robots, awesome fighting scenes but still child freindly.

-Villian gets rehabilitated in the end, Discord style.

 

Win win in my book.

 

Anyway, hope this helps!

 

I'll be completely honest with you...I'm planning for something similar to that to be the antagonist in Dusk's personal sequel... mad scientist, jealous of Dr. Whooves....

 

But that's a different story.

 

Anyway, I like your idea, Circadian of him being angry that the duo's inactivity. I'll try to work some of that in there, maybe. And Skygunner, your asking questions I am asking myself about this. I am trying to find a legitimate reason for Dusk to turn evil, without him looking like an idiot. Also, he impresses Nightmare Moon with his magic, and she believes that, with a combination of her own magic and training, and his magic, he'd be able to carry out her goal with ease. However, she forgets that his own magic is mostly gone because he's been dead.

Edited February 18, 2013 by New Moon

[Dreadmallon 353]

I'm also curious, what is the limitations of the villain, besides being too OP. For example, goal. NMM's was to bring the night forever (I suppose NM will do the same), Discord wanted to bring chaos to Equestria forever, Chrysalis wanted to control Equestria, and Sombra wanted the Crystal Empire back (anything more I do not know). However, I'm wondering what's the limitations to how they achieve it. Like what's the thing about an OC villain's plan that is typically frowned upon by the reader(s)?

[Pixel Stick 927]

I'm also curious, what is the limitations of the villain, besides being too OP. For example, goal. NMM's was to bring the night forever (I suppose NM will do the same), Discord wanted to bring chaos to Equestria forever, Chrysalis wanted to control Equestria, and Sombra wanted the Crystal Empire back (anything more I do not know). However, I'm wondering what's the limitations to how they achieve it. Like what's the thing about an OC villain's plan that is typically frowned upon by the reader(s)?

 

I don't know that there are necessarily "limitations" on this.  As a writer, though, I try to always make my characters believable - they can have super powers, sure, but you need to be able to visualize those super powers and think through what the character can do with them.

 

I'll give a really vague example here: Suppose I have the power to teleport.  People generally understand what that means, so if I use my teleporting ability to, say, dodge an incoming fireball, great.  I'll end up about ten feet away.

 

Now, does that ability let me teleport through solid objects (eg. walls)?  Is it a matter deconstruction/reconstruction thing, like the transporters in Star Trek?  Is it simply an extremely fast movement?  How much energy does it require?  How much "lead time" does it require?

 

In a story I'd write with a teleporting character, I'd internally know these things, and when appropriate I'd express them (eg. "Harvan attempted to dodge the fireball, but ended up slamming at ultra-high speed into the nearby wall.  He was dazed and exhausted, and thus unprepared for the second attack.")  But in the context of a story, I wouldn't necessarily spell out these things for your readers - part of writing a good character is to only reveal what you have to.

 

I don't know that answering "Would my OC be overpowered?" is really possible without knowing specifically what powers you're talking about.  But my initial thought is that "overpowered" is relative.  If your character is an omnipotent god, chances are he's overpowered for everyone in the MLP universe.  If he's more powerful than, say, Luna, then relative to her he'd be overpowered.  BUT: That's not necessarily a bad thing - that could be a catalyst for involving more heroes than just Luna to defeat him ("By our powers combined...!").  It's a common mechanic.

 

Also, keep in mind that your audiences are going to vary, and no matter how you write your story, it's going to appeal to some and turn off others.  My own opinion is that a good villain won't be shallow - he'll have a backstory, a motivation and a means, and all of them should be both believable and reasonably well thought-out.  Beyond that, the sky's the limit.

[Dreadmallon 353]

I don't know that there are necessarily "limitations" on this.  As a writer, though, I try to always make my characters believable - they can have super powers, sure, but you need to be able to visualize those super powers and think through what the character can do with them.

 

I'll give a really vague example here: Suppose I have the power to teleport.  People generally understand what that means, so if I use my teleporting ability to, say, dodge an incoming fireball, great.  I'll end up about ten feet away.

 

Now, does that ability let me teleport through solid objects (eg. walls)?  Is it a matter deconstruction/reconstruction thing, like the transporters in Star Trek?  Is it simply an extremely fast movement?  How much energy does it require?  How much "lead time" does it require?

 

In a story I'd write with a teleporting character, I'd internally know these things, and when appropriate I'd express them (eg. "Harvan attempted to dodge the fireball, but ended up slamming at ultra-high speed into the nearby wall.  He was dazed and exhausted, and thus unprepared for the second attack.")  But in the context of a story, I wouldn't necessarily spell out these things for your readers - part of writing a good character is to only reveal what you have to.

 

I don't know that answering "Would my OC be overpowered?" is really possible without knowing specifically what powers you're talking about.  But my initial thought is that "overpowered" is relative.  If your character is an omnipotent god, chances are he's overpowered for everyone in the MLP universe.  If he's more powerful than, say, Luna, then relative to her he'd be overpowered.  BUT: That's not necessarily a bad thing - that could be a catalyst for involving more heroes than just Luna to defeat him ("By our powers combined...!").  It's a common mechanic.

 

Also, keep in mind that your audiences are going to vary, and no matter how you write your story, it's going to appeal to some and turn off others.  My own opinion is that a good villain won't be shallow - he'll have a backstory, a motivation and a means, and all of them should be both believable and reasonably well thought-out.  Beyond that, the sky's the limit.

 

 

   Yes, I understand where you're coming from. I'm just trying to say, would my character be a main villain or a side villain, and if the way I plan to execute his planning is over-the-top for his role (criminal affiliations in the beginning, changeling alliance later).

  

   You see, I just want my character to be a villain (in this story), but at the same time have something similar to a typical pony. You know, that bit of (pony) humanity. We haven't seen that in MLP:FiM's villains yet, as none of them seemed to be average ponies in the past. However, with New Moon, who was a normal stallion in the past, he is now more powerful, and unlike the other villains who's downfall was their arrogance, New Moon doesn't underestimate anypony, especially Twilight, because he knows what they can bring to the table (not individually, of course, but generally-speaking; these assumptions are wise, but sometimes inaccurate. For example, he faced off with Rainbow Dash and lost because he didn't know about her speed).

  

   Despite this policy which seems to give New Moon a factor in becoming a main villain, I want him to maintain this similarity by being more of a side-villain (an important one, but one nonetheless). Someone who comes to mind when trying to give an example is Shadow the Hedgehog from Sonic Adventure 2, whom I admittedly did base some of the rivalry with Twilight Sparkle off of, along with the role of New Moon. He was quite important to the plot of the story (especially the backstory), even fighting Sonic off to a standstill twice (forcing some events), but he seemed to be Eggman's henchman (with his own, personal motives).

 

   Oh, and I believe I should mention that New Moon is supposed to be as powerful as Cadance, Shining Armor, and/or Twilight (as of now; I am unsure however whether or not I'm going to incorporate her alicorn-self).