Now maybe it's my perspective but what is the down side to pandering?

[FNGRpony 655]

Okay I'm looking at this from a diablo 3 perspective.

 

Where the powers that be (IE jay wilson) tossed out what the fans wanted to do with the game and did what he wanted to do with the game.

 

Including an auction house,

no pvp,

a bunch of other things that didn't come into the game until his royal highness was removed from the head from the diablo project.

 

Fans got the things in the game they wanted after he left.  Now there were some people who prefered it the other way,

For the reason it was harder, and it' what the creater of that game "intended."

 

And it's my predispotion with Wilson that I"m skeptical on the whole

"It's not what Lauren faust woul have wanted."

 

People get caught up original intent.

Lets look at Batman.  Harley quinn is the soal creation of a cartoon so much liked by the fans,

she made her way into the comic.

An amazingly thing happened.  No one bitched.  I've never met a single fan who ever said Harley ruined the joker (that's honestly amazing).

 

Isn't Harley quinn fan pandering?  I mean she wasn't cannon.  She was something writers created to give fans something they didn't even know they wanted.

 

your thoughts.  And keep in mind that's from bat man fans. they bitch on a dime.

[Scootalove 10,685]

Harley Quinn was not fan pandering. Warner Bros. just decided to put her in the comics as a henchman or a henchwoman so to speak to the Joker, it's only fan pandering if the fans desperately wanted her in the comics and start begging Warner Bros. to put her in the comics. The downside to pandering would be, the thing that your fans are pandering about actually backfires and becomes a bad idea.

[FNGRpony 655]

Harley Quinn was not fan pandering. Warner Bros. just decided to put her in the comics as a henchman or a henchwoman so to speak to the Joker, it's only fan pandering if the fans desperately wanted her in the comics and start begging Warner Bros. to put her in the comics. The downside to pandering would be, the thing that your fans are pandering about actually backfires and becomes a bad idea.

 

 

That's a matter of excution.  I think almost anything can be done right (or wrong).

I thik fans never thought to ask to have harley in likely assuming that dc wouldn't do it, or couldn't do it right.

 

Okay  I gotta better one than.  KIlling of jason todd.

I defy you to tell me that wasn't fan pandering.

 

They had a phone number to call in to have him killed.

And lets be honest it worked out great ^^

[Scootalove 10,685]

That's a matter of excution.  I think almost anything can be done right (or wrong).

I thik fans never thought to ask to have harley in likely assuming that dc wouldn't do it, or couldn't do it right.

 

Okay  I gotta better one than.  KIlling of jason todd.

I defy you to tell me that wasn't fan pandering.

 

They had a phone number to call in to have him killed.

And lets be honest it worked out great ^^

Yeah it worked well, but it wasn't pandering. The fans probably didn't ask for Harley until DC created her, I could be wrong. Jason Todd's death has nothing to do with pandering, the way they killed him wasn't pandering.

[FNGRpony 655]

Yeah it worked well, but it wasn't pandering. The fans probably didn't ask for Harley until DC created her, I could be wrong. Jason Todd's death has nothing to do with pandering, the way they killed him wasn't pandering.

the fans did want him dead.    http://www.comictastic.com/the-vote-to-kill-jason-todd/

 

The vote was close, but readers let him die, with the final total being 5,343 votes to kill him to 5,271 in favor of his survival.

 

couldn't be more straight forward don't cha think?

[AdmiralZeratul 156]

The problem with fan pandering is that ultimately, the fans are for the most part simple people like you and me who happen to enjoy the show. We are not professionals with years of writing experience. Works like MLP are great because of the effort and genius put into them by their creators.

[FNGRpony 655]

The problem with fan pandering is that ultimately, the fans are for the most part simple people like you and me who happen to enjoy the show. We are not professionals with years of writing experience. Works like MLP are great because of the effort and genius put into them by their creators.

I thought MLP was great because of the fans.

there fantastic shows that come and go all the time after one season.

 

and some of the crazy work fans put into making fan episodes ,

head cannons, analysis, and over all the things around the show creates a whole second fan base on to itself.

 

Fans.. of fans of the show.

 

I think you give the writers to much credit for some of the episodes.

 

I'd take a episode about back ground ponies over say, shinning armor hanging out with twilight and hew new bf LOL.

[FirestormCAN 246]

The more DHX panders to the brony community, the more empowered they become. The more empowered they become, the more likely to annoy its staff and try to "take over" production. It's a problem every project has to go through with its fans. They often forget that there's a target audience that needs attention to. And in this case, the studio has to keep that in mind in order to keep the kids, casual viewers and Hasbro satisfied. It's a hard job to do, but they do the best they can under their circumstances.

[Scootalove 10,685]

the fans did want him dead.    http://www.comictastic.com/the-vote-to-kill-jason-todd/

 

The vote was close, but readers let him die, with the final total being 5,343 votes to kill him to 5,271 in favor of his survival.

 

couldn't be more straight forward don't cha think?

Okay I'm not surprised that they wanted him dead, besides Jason Todd wasn't exactly the forgiving type at all. I'm going to admit, that you proved me wrong my good sir.

[FNGRpony 655]

Okay I'm not surprised that they wanted him dead, besides Jason Todd wasn't exactly the forgiving type at all. I'm going to admit, that you proved me wrong my good sir.

 

well alot fans didn't like the idea back than, notice the close vote.

A show can take alot different directions that can go any number of ways.

 

it's the excutation (no pun intented in Todd's case) that really matters.

 

you could make the main give alicorns and have it be bad ass, but it would take ALottttttttttt of damn good writing.

you could take derpy out of the back ground,

I'm not so sure you would need to work miracles to make that be enjoyable.

 

I kinda don't want the cutie crusaders to succeed cause.... hell it's awesome watching them be them.  that's their chracters.

 

Apple blossum would go from the sad little hyper active pony with no talent to

"I sure do like apples!"

 

Now the writers might have just that planned.  Making apple blossum become apple jacks mini me.

if the fans could keep that from happening I fail to see how that would be a bad thing ^ ^.

[Scootalove 10,685]

well alot fans didn't like the idea back than, notice the close vote.

A show can take alot different directions that can go any number of ways.

 

it's the excutation (no pun intented in Todd's case) that really matters.

 

you could make the main give alicorns and have it be bad ass, but it would take ALottttttttttt of damn good writing.

you could take derpy out of the back ground,

I'm not so sure you would need to work miracles to make that be enjoyable.

 

I kinda don't want the cutie crusaders to succeed cause.... hell it's awesome watching them be them.  that's their chracters.

 

Apple blossum would go from the sad little hyper active pony with no talent to

"I sure do like apples!"

 

Now the writers might have just that planned.  Making apple blossum become apple jacks mini me.

if the fans could keep that from happening I fail to see how that would be a bad thing ^ ^.

I have to agree that the Cutie Mark Crusaders are getting more character development, and we're learning more about them as characters. Working miracles are pretty hard to come by in good writing. I'm a little lost on who this, Apple Blossom pony is.

[FNGRpony 655]

Apple bloom sorry, I guess I don't hear the name enough or see it.

 

Blossom, bloom i was in the ball park.  I recall digi brony reveiw calling her and the rest of the apple family "late bloomers"

so i guess that's why i recalled the name the way i did.

[Katana 298]

"What? Putting Disney songs in the show? Dude, that's not what we came here for! Just have more slapstick and internet-meme fuel!"

(They make songs anyway)

"DUDE, THANK YOU SO MUCH I HAVE TEARS IN MY EYES!"

 

Also, you'll notice that the better of fans with ideas simply execute on them and make comics/videos themselves. There's a saying in the indie game community: Ideas are a dime a dozen. What determines their value is both the time committed to building those ideas, and the quality of execution of the idea itself.

 

To take a favorite company of mine that is always doing something different, and has never made a third game in a series: I would never ever try to tell Valve Software what to do next. If I told them in 2005 or so to forget making Team Fortress Classic Two and focus on an awesome secondary campaign to Half-Life 2 where you play as Alyx, the world would be a worse place. If I told them in 2007 to just use Portal as a show-stopping plot-combiner with Half-Life 2: Episode 3, complete with a few shoehorned Portal puzzles, then today no one would remember that game.

 

Valve is at their best when they're executing on ideas we, the fans, didn't come up with. What's more, their artists and developers tend to feel SO much more passionate and mind-fueled when they're working on their own ideas - the ones they proposed to Gabe at some meeting, who said "That sounds awesome! Can you work on a prototype this week?" I've been fueled by that passion before, and there's really little else that can get you to burn the midnight oil and feel good about it.

 

The point I'm trying to make is not specific to DHX or this show: I just get really, really worried that there was a Scootaloo episode because executives sat people down and said "Fans want a Scootaloo episode!" I mean, maybe it will turn out well (I think it did!) but it's so much better to think of artists and animators working together on a creation of their own, rather than something they were asked to make, to supply a particular demand derived from market analyst charts.

 

Finally: Fans' ideas tend to be derivative. I touched on this a bit, but for instance: People tend to want more episodes of their favorite characters. I feel like each episode where a guest character makes a surprise return tends to feel like a weak one - there's very little in terms of new elements at play, and the episode fails to feel all that unique.

[duidamasterXD 9,626]

It's very true that it isn't good at all when a franchise completely ignores what its fans are likely to enjoy. Not to force people to lose their artistic integrity or anything, but if your goal is in any way to make something for people's enjoyment, it's good not to lose touch with your fans.

 

That said, there is something to be said for not going out of your way to give into fans' demands. If the fans clearly want x couple to be canon, and event y to happen and character z to die, why should a writer have to go along with that if it's contrary to their plans for the franchise, and they think it'd make the series worse overall? Also, if the fans think you did a good job with whatever other direction you took the series, cool. Look at Alicorn Twilight, it was a crazily unpopular concept before it was canon, and now things have gone a complete 180 from then.

 

I think anything that bronies call pandering is really nothing to worry about though. It rarely extends beyond Lyra and Bon Bon having a scene standing next to each other, giving Vinyl Scratch a cameo, etc. I'll start complaining when they add Derpy to the Mane Six, make an episode about Luna's love of video games, or something like that.

[FNGRpony 655]

It's very true that it isn't good at all when a franchise completely ignores what its fans are likely to enjoy. Not to force people to lose their artistic integrity or anything, but if your goal is in any way to make something for people's enjoyment, it's good not to lose touch with your fans.

 

That said, there is something to be said for not going out of your way to give into fans' demands. If the fans clearly want x couple to be canon, and event y to happen and character z to die, why should a writer have to go along with that if it's contrary to their plans for the franchise, and they think it'd make the series worse overall? Also, if the fans think you did a good job with whatever other direction you took the series, cool. Look at Alicorn Twilight, it was a crazily unpopular concept before it was canon, and now things have gone a complete 180 from then.

 

I think anything that bronies call pandering is really nothing to worry about though. It rarely extends beyond Lyra and Bon Bon having a scene standing next to each other, giving Vinyl Scratch a cameo, etc. I'll start complaining when they add Derpy to the Mane Six, make an episode about Luna's love of video games, or something like that.

 

 

Cause luna holding a game controler would ruin anything?  that literally seems like

"I enjoy something less if someone else enjoys it more."

 

I watched the first episode of MLP FIM in a Jpony video, where the cut some stuff out of the episode so they could do a little comercial with a japense girl and twilight sparkle shiling chicken.  (I shit you not LOL)

 

I thought that was so awesome cause it was a giant middle finger to the vegeterian core principles of the oringal intent of the creaters.

 

I just felt so glowy and happy.  Now they didn't do tha to pander, they did it to advertise, but I stil felt placated ^^.

[duidamasterXD 9,626]

 

 

Cause luna holding a game controler would ruin anything? that literally seems like "I enjoy something less if someone else enjoys it more."

 

I was speaking in the sense of there being an entire episode dedicated to it. I mean, I don't know if I'd instantly write off the episode as bad, it'd just have been made solely to do a reference to a popular fandom idea. References are fun, sure. I love Daring Do, for example, but can you really do enough with an episode with Luna coming to enjoy gaming to justify the time spent on it? Luna's a complex character, who has been through a lot and is growing into her role in this time. I just feel that there are so many more interesting things you could do with the character if you're going to give her an episode. That said, if it was just a scene or something I doubt I'd care, so long as it didn't feel out of place or weird. If it did, I'd still feel that it'd be stretching a bit much to make a joke. Though I'm sure I'm biased in that I don't really care much for the Gamer Luna fanon in general. Shrug.

[Lux Klonoa 18]

In response to the replies above... really, I could care less about other fans' demands about the show. Couples? Not into shipping. Derpy? She's had her time to shine in season 2 before the complaints arose. Gamer Luna? That'd be a bit out of character for her, don't you think?

 

The only thing I care about is getting Super Dash into the show. To me, unlike the above, it would fit into the show the most as long as they keep the violence to "A Canterlot Wedding" levels, even if it would make her a step above the rest of the Mane Six. But then again, so is alicorn Twilight, and so its fair enough if there was one other of the six to match her power.

 

Of course, though, that's all up to DHX. If they want to take my idea, let them. If they want to design their own Super form for Dash, let them. If they want to give the rest of them Super forms, let them. If it helps their creativity as was said above, let them.

 

In the end, its all on them. Maybe they'll continue the pandering, maybe not. No one can predict the future. It's all a mystery, and only they know the answer.

[. eris . 1,661]

Okay, let's take these things one at a time, shall we?

 

First off: the definition of 'pander'.

 

pan·der

ˈpandər/

verb

 

1. 1.

   gratify or indulge (an immoral or distasteful desire, need, or habit or a person with such a desire, etc.).

 

Gratify or indulge; see what an ugly word that is now? I like to use it in negative connontations. That's generally why it's called "fan pandering", because that term is generally negative. 

 

And here's why it's negative. Our fandom is wildly artistic and talented. Unlike the Batman fandom, where you can be an active and popular member with zero artistic skill or talent, the Brony community definitely lends its collective ear towards people with immense writing/remixing/songwriting/drawing talents. There is a massive outpouring of fanart and headcanons that range from incredibly gory to heart-wrenching and tragic. Because of this, there are a million different theories as to how Celestia and Luna came into existance. Or even how long they've been alive. Who Scootaloo's parents are. Et cetera. 

 

I have nothing wrong with fan-service. A bit of fan service can instantly endear your fandom to the creators; for instance, Derpy talking. Look at the massive outpouring of love and support Derpy received, because she was the product of Hasbro listening to the fans. We liked Derpy. As a matter of fact, we liked her so much they decided to give her speaking lines. How cool is that? 

 

What was largely wrong with Season 3 is it was trying to balance fan-service and headcanon debunking. Some shows, like Glee, go out of their way to debunk headcanons or popular ships, because they know that ship or headcanon is completely uncharacteristic of the characters. For instance, Fluttershy using "The Stare!" on Discord came right out of nowhere, served absolutely no purpose to the plot, and as soon as it was over, nobody mentioned it again.* It also destroyed the former idea of her not really knowing what it was or how to use it--all of a sudden, she knows enough about it to use it as a legitimate threat. This was used to debunk theories about Fluttershy's "Stare" being able to conquer almost anything. 

 

The main problem, or what I'm trying to get at, is that as a fandom we shouldn't have control over what the writers want to do. Who are we to demand things? We've loved the show for what it is. If the writers keep writing what they want to write, like they've mostly been doing, why should we complain? But when the fans start stepping in between the writers and their thought process, demanding things like, "We want a Scootaloo episode! We want to see more of Pinkie's family! We want Vinyl Scratch to have a song/speaking parts! We want a Derpy episode! Blah blah rawr!" then things get messed up. Because then the noisy majority is winning over the writer's wishes. 

 

That being said, the fandom does need to listen to criticism from fans. Not demands. 

 

I would also like to excuse and apologize for this rambling wall of text, as I'm currently so high on sugar I can smell colors.

 

Good day, and I'm off to eat more Klondike Bars.

[I used to be a stranger 7,989]

The problem with fan pandering is that ultimately, the fans are for the most part simple people like you and me who happen to enjoy the show. We are not professionals with years of writing experience. Works like MLP are great because of the effort and genius put into them by their creators.

Moreover the collective whole of us don't know what we want.

 

The collective whole of us would like to see the show, in no particular order: become more sexualized, avoid sexuality altogether, involve fewer female characters, involve more female characters, have humans, never have humans, have more steampunk, have more references to video games, have more celebrity cameos, have more Princess Luna, have less Applejack, a mission to space, a murder or death of an important character, and so on. Reconciling all these different things to pander would be impossible.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Blue