BalanceBrony

Okay, so back when the first teaser was released, y'all might have seen me skitzing out a bit on a couple of threads. Many people said "wait and see before making a judgement call." Well, now I've seen the new teaser- and this is literally the absolute worst way they could have handled Princess Flurr Fart. Or now as I'd like to call her, Princess Plot Device. Her special talents include being OP, and serving as a Deus Ex Machina, MacGuffin, or other literary device.
 
Back at the first teaser, I was telling people that babies are inherently problematic in storytelling. And I have had long discussions on how this could be dealt with as best as possible. There were some paths that could have been taken that wouldn't have been as bad. But they went the path of the OP baby with uncontrollable powers. And this is bad, bad, badddd.
 
Princess Fartface is OP. She has more power than all of the other Princesses combined it seems. Which is terrible. That teaser singlehandedly made it clear that she is just going to be a walking plot device, to serve whatever purpose is needed, including being the driver of the conflict.
 
To everybody who was "hyped" what are your thoughts now that we're going to have a Fairly OddBaby-tier plot, all about this "special" baby who is OP and causes all kinds of silly accidents because she was born with great power. Are you excited now that it's clear what path the writers are taking? Do you see any way they can clear up this godawful premise? Do you actually like  the idea of an OP baby who just does whatever the story needs her to do?

My concerns were justified. The only thing that could make the show passable now is if Princess Plot Device doesn't do anything outside of the opener. Or if they completely get rid of her powers for good. Ways that it could be made even worse is if she becomes a Deus Ex Machina.
 
Here's the godawful promo for anyone who hasn't seen the atrocity at work.

UPDATE:

My fears have been confirmed. We have OP baby incoming. I'll watch the opener, but I am very concerned.

We're in trouble Guys. The writers pulled a Poof. RIP MLPFIM. Princess McFlurry Fart of MacGuffin is here to stay.

Nononononononononononononononono

I just saw the hoofdarned preview. they literally did this in the absolute WORST possible of ways. The uncontrollable magic, OP baby Alicorn.

Making a darn OP Alicorn baby was the WORST option. Congrats everypony, introducing Princess Plot Device. Her special talents are MacGuffin and Deus Ex Machina. Now give us all of your money!

The "chosen one from birth" stuff has been part of FIM ever since they started Shilling twilight's background more.

 

She had a cutie mark that was the tree of harmony's symbol after all, showing her to be destined from the start; Her Element started from the get-go as her Cutie mark's shape, unlike the others which were generic shaped and only changed later to be the other 5's cutie mark. (as per S4's retconning the element of magic being on the tree of harmony and the EOM being her shape when celestia wielded it)

 

 

So FIM already has the idea that a pony can be special before earning anything, so Princess flurry heart being an alicorn isn't really much different than twilight having the tree of harmony's symbol on her flank, it just means that flurry heart is pre-destined in the same way twilight was.

(not that I like that, but its already how things seem to work in FIM)

True. And I never denied that Twilight is "special". But she is the protagonist. The story follows her. etc. Adding another inherently special pony is blegh. Because Twilight is a "chosen one" archetype, that's why Flurry Heart can't be either of these.

They are special, in the sense of royalty, not in the sense of some kind of deities. They seem like deities to us because what they do is far beyond our capabilities sure, but if you look in the context of equestria they are not revered or worshiped like gods nor do they really have the powers of such. Like I said, a group of Unicorns could do what Alicorns can do (at least in terms of of the raising the sun and moon). Alicorns were chosen as a ruling class because of their connection to the three tribes, and it seems to of worked for the most part. Hell Sombra was a Unicorn (or something else in the IDW comics, but I forget what they called it) and he ended up with enough power to match Celestia in that alternate universe.

 

She may not be. Even if she was she is an infant, so the likelihood of her even doing anything besides your typical baby antics isn't that high. She didn't come out of the womb speaking like Stewie Griffin...Although that would of been hilarious now that I think about it.

 

"Mother, I am going to take over Equestria, Muahahaha!"

"That's nice dear"

 

Anyway I digress. The point is she is a baby, and is probably not even going to be a thing for the majority of the season. It would offer a chance to have a time skip to when the baby is a filly (probably a following season deal), which would lead to a whole bunch of interesting shifts in the status quo.

 

Like I mentioned before, EVEN IF she wasn't born an Alicorn, she would of STILL been a princess because her mother is royalty. No matter if she were an earth pony, a unicorn, or a Pegasus, she would of still been a princess. The power dynamic, again, really isn't as big of a part of the equation that people try to make them out to be. This isn't like Dragon Ball Z, where "super Saiyans" were cheapened because every body could do it. DBZ is a predominantly action centered show, and one of its greatest flaws has always been "power creep", or the the increasing of the powers of the characters to the point where there isn't even any realistic threat for them that isn't some super powered deity or demon from another dimension. The reason this isn't the same is because MLP isn't focused on "power levels", despite the whole threats from thousand year old enemies of equestria on the premiers and finale's of nearly every season. In fact, not a single threat was ever defeated purely with Alicorn magic.

 

I'll repeat that: No serious enemy in the entire series either past or present, as far as the show is concerned, has ever been defeated purely by Alicorn magic. The closest thing they had was a stalemate with Tirek. It has always been the Tree of Harmony and the things that come from it like the elements, map, and castle that always ends up ending the fight once and for all, every single time it intervenes. Even in the instances that The Tree of Harmony didn't intervene on affairs, their still isn't an example of pure brute force from an Alicorn solving any threat. Sombra was Defeated by the Crystal heart returning to its proper place (I do recall reading an IDW comic saying that the Crystal heart is actually enemies with whatever crystal that gave Sombra his powers. Makes me wonder if there are more of these sentient Crystals out there like the Tree and the Crystal heart). The closest thing to an Alicorn winning by her own power was against Chrysalis, but if you recall, she had touched horns with Shining Armor and lent him power specifically so he could use HIS spell to send her away. It was a joint effort, not just her.

 

In terms of proving herself, right now Flurry Hearts is just a baby; the only thing she needs to prove herself on right now is potty training and being able to eat her food properly. Given we've already had episodes following such escapades with the Cake twins, I doubt it would be much of a gripping episode to retread those steps. I'm thinking they may go the route of Cadence trying to learn how to take care of a foal, maybe even seeking advice from the Cakes.

 

 

And the presence of another born Alicorn could lead into world building on what happened to the Alicorn tribe! A lot of the problems with Alicorn lore is that its largely unexplained. This could give them a reason to expand and solidify what the nature of Alicorns really are, which I'm all for. Sure they could screw it up, but from what I've seen out of the writers of the show, including larson, is that they love what they do and enjoy the stories they tell. If they were lifeless and just doing it for the cash like Teen Titans Go I'd be right there with you on the concern thing.

 

Like I mentioned earlier, She'd of been a princess regardless of what she was born as. Being born into royalty doesn't cheapen royalty or females, its just a fact of life in an Autocracy. I also wouldn't say its losing its pro woman message, its part of why I love the show. So many females in media, even stuff aimed at "adults" have characterization as thin as wafers. This show isn't perfect in that regard, some characters are pretty under developed on this show; However that has more to do with Hasbro intervention than the writing staff. For instance in Party Pooped, Cadence was originally going to go with Pinkie to the Yak kingdom (instead of just standing there and pointing in a general direction like a living sign) and more things were supposed to happen in that episode, but last minute changes from on high prevented that from happening.

I'm sure though, to the best of their ability, and despite limitations that may be placed on them, that they are going to treat the show with the same care as they have this whole time.

 

I think the show learned from Flash Sentry on the dangers of walking plot devices. That is Flash in a nutshell, and the poor reception seems to of staved off characters like that since then. Even if she were as strong as the other alicorns, I would again point out that the "specialness" of the Alicorns lies more in their connection to the three tribes and their royal status, not so much in their powers. Like I've previously stated, No major threat to equestria had ever been been brute forced by an alicorn's power alone. Now if the baby was Taking down big time baddies with a flap of her wing and a spark of a horn, THEN we'd be wandering into bad fanfic territory. I highly doubt this is the case though.

 

I doubt the show would become the "Flurry Hearts show, featuring my little pony characters" , If they did do that it would probably be a spin off series aimed at an even younger audience. The main series would not suddenly switch gears just because of a baby. I also don't think the show will retread a chosen one angle, that has been reserved for the mane six. Also, Tropes aren't inherently bad, but you have to make them your own. Undertale for example is Filled to the brim with tropes, but the spin that it takes WITH those tropes are what make it what it is. Its when there is nothing there besides tropes that it becomes just another thing you've seen before.

 

 

Not necessarily, for many of the points I've already stated.

 

 

This is a valid point. Hasbro is notorious for mucking up the works in the series, and some of the most maligned episodes can have their transgressions traced back to intervention from on high. HOWEVER, considering how well they've managed to keep the quality going despite this should be enough to give the writers some credit. Hasbro keeps its proverbial hooves out for the most part, but the show is ultimately a high quality commercial for their toys. The writers have been able to work with this pretty well so far. They've handled baby characters alright so far as well considering the cake Twins.

 

I say, considering the writers track record, and the pretty uniform quality of the show up to this point, Lets give them a chance to prove themselves like the way you say Alicorns had to prove themselves.

 

On the point of the Alicorn mane six: That would be something that would lead to a series finale. I am very much in favor of the idea that Celestia and Luna eventually retires and the Mane six ends up taking their place as the six rulers of Equestria, each taking care of a specific aspect instead of everything like the two sisters had to do. It would be interesting to see how their characters would handle such responsibilities.

1) True, but it drained them of their power. Celestia and Luna did not get sapped in doing it. Also, they are connected to the Tree of Harmony, so there's more towards their significane than just their alicorn-ness.

2) You mention it at a later point- but typical baby antics are also an undesirable thing. As for time skipping to Fillihood- I couldn't give half a darn, because it stands that a being that is born powerful and significant is boring. If she is important enough to change the status quo, even at a later date, then I'm not going to be too happy. If there's going to be another damn Alicorn, i don't want it to change the show much. That's literally the best that cna be done. Besides, both EQG and the CMC stand as far more interesting story premises for spin-offs imho.

3) And who says royalty should work the same in MLP as the real world? All of the Princesses earned their title. And being born makes it so like "Oh, you don't need to actually do anything. Just get born lucky and you're special!" The whole notion of being born special is ugh. Especially in MLP.

4) True. But they are still inherently more powerful within the current lore. More raw power. If Alicornhood is not inherent power, then that is the best solution for this point. But if it is, ugh.

5) Boring foal-sitting is just about as bad as OP Mary Sue. maybe a bit better in this case, because maybe Cadence will finally get flaws.

6) Agree on the fact I want Alicorn lore. But there would have been much better ways then a stupid baby. I'm on board if the twerp gets as little attention as possible.

7) See point 3

8) Yeah, but what can a baby really become? Also, royal status and alicornhood are not inherently linked. The royal status of these specific alicorns is related mostly to what they've done, more than anything else, and a bit of the alicornness. But mostly what they've done.

9) Tropes are not inherently done. But the same one should not be used too much in one story. Especially the Chosen One trope.

10) Yeah. And that is probably one of the biggest sources of outrage here. Hasbro meddling. It was going to be a dang unicorn until they stepped in. Removing all of these issues. Babies are horrible for storytelling. "Special" ones are even worse.

11) Eh. It was supposed to be Twilight succeeds the Princesses and the others are her advisers. According to the original story layout. Confirmed by several writers.

Holy fuck.... that second link...that's some head canon demolishing stuff right there...

I mean, Zecora has a cutie mark. Granted, she is Equine, whereas Griffons are part lion, but it's not that much of a stretch.

So, I want to try and do my best to address all of @@Buck Testa, points.

First off, the books are considered canon by many now more than ever, because all of the writers of the books have now written for the show, and the books are officially licensed. Stories made by people who work for the show count as canon.

That said, here goes the main arguments.

1) The show makes it very clear that Alicorns are supposed to be special. It's complete and utter break of continuity if too many Alicorns join the cast. If everyone is special, nobody is.

2) There are indeed two kinds of Alicorns, born and ascended. That's why I stopped complaining about that aspect. But, it is worth noting that most of the Alicorn tribe vanished (source: Book of Two Sisters, written by show staff).

3) However, the show makes it clear that the Two Sisters, Twilight, and Cadence are special even among Alicorns. The first 3 are connected to the Tree of Harmony, and Cadence to the Crystal Heart. Those 4 are special even among Alicorns. So, Flurry Heart should not be on their level. And giving her some grand destiny is a major risk to telling a good story. More on that later.

4) Born Alicorns are a thing, but the fact that she is a special Princess without earning the title puts her in a different status from the other 4 Princesses. Celestia and Luna had to prove themselves to the population of Equestria, even though they were elected into power by a council solely because of their Alicornness. The population was not completely in support, so they had to prove their right to rule over all ponies by uniting Equestria. Cadence saved the villlage by fixing the Crystal Heart Spell. Twilight mastered the Magic of Friendship. All of them did things before earning the full title of Princess of Equestria.

5) The earned title of the 4 Princesses was a major part of the show's intended feministic message. That females can earn powerful positions with hard work and determination. Strong females. Flurry Fart was born a Princess, which cheapens that message.

6) There are several issues related not only to her Alicorn and Princess status, but here status as a "special" baby. "Special" babies are notorious for being walking plot devices. If they don't give her any significant power, then this will be headed off. But if she is "special" and powerful, the risk for bad writing skyrockets.

7) If I were to use the example of Poof from Fairly OddParents, Poof was a MacGuffin and Deus Ex Machina at the same time. He was a walking plot device, existing only to serve as both conflicts and solutions. Given the general difficulty of writing a baby (since how deep and interesting can the character of a baby be?) it is all too easy for them to become a mechanic, rather than a character.

8) Further, if they do something stupid like a "Chosen One" type of story- not only has that been done already in this show- but it is an overused trope. And it's all the worse if you have a baby be the "special" character. Because a baby, lacking in reason or autonomy, can only be shallow. And if they make the baby smart, and/or powerful, it changes them into a character, sure. But that kind of OPness and Precociousness makes them a borderline Mary Sue/Gary Stu on TOP of being a walking plot device.

9) Babies are one of the worst characters to add to a show, and are notoriously easy to mess up. If she isn't special or powerful, then fair enough. Flurry Heart would then be in the same class as Cadence and Shining- just kind of there. But if she is made special and/or powerful, it would be horrible.

10) Regardless of whether she is special or not, the chances of her being anything other than a stupid plot device is very low. In all likelihood, she'll be more of an object than a character.

11) Underneath it all, it can't be forgotten that a historically bad character type was forced into the show by a toy company that cares about profits way more than writing a cohesive story. No sane writer would add one of the worst archetypes to a show if they weren't forced to. Babies are an inherently easy character to mess up, because their inferior capacities make them an object, and not a character. And adding higher capacities makes them OP and boring instead of a walking plot device. There are two extreme sides of adding a baby to a show, and very little middle ground

So, there are all the reasons it can go wrong, or is perceived as a major threat to the quality of the show. That said, let me preemptively state some solid counterarguments.

It could be said that the writers are very capable, and indeed they are. They have taken plenty of lemons from Hasbro and made them something cool or interesting. However, it is verrry hard to fix babies.

It could be said that the books are only semi-canon, and I want to say no to this. I don't think something officially sanctioned, and officially written by the writers is anything other than canon.

It could be said that Flurry Fart being a walking plot device is no different from Cadence or Shining, and a couple of other characters, and to be fair, that's right. However, that doesn't mean it is excusable to add ANOTHER boring MacGuffin/Deus Ex Machina, who, if done wrong, might ALSO be a Mary Sue.

It could be said that maybe MLP isn't intended to be feministic anymore, and that it has deviated from the original path, but I disagree. Because, even as recently as Season 5, we saw plenty of cases where the strength of the main cast as self-made, independent females, was made very clear. And even if that is not the direct intention anymore, having even one character that breaks the mold of strong females is definitely a disconnect from some of the feel of the show, which features many strong female characters that do things to show their strength, ability, and they earn their achievements. Making being born an achievement is a disconnect.

It's obvious to say that I am jumping to conclusions about her being "special" and that I should wait until the episode actually comes out. But, don't forget that Alicorns are by definition "special" in the world of MLP. So, that's very much a given conclusion. The odds of her being normal  are outweighed by the chance she'll be a special snowflake. You said in one of your posts that this is a good step towards "Killing the notion that alicorns are supposed to be special." But the thing is, killing that notion is completely retconning the canon. Even if the books were not canon, the show itself makes it very clear that Alicorn = Special. "Killing" that notion means the writers would be giving a direct middle finger to the story. So no, "Killing" this idea is objectively a break in continuity. Nobody will deny that the show itself is canon.

Believe me, I would love  if she is just a normal pony. That would stop her from being a Mary Sue, at least. That would actually make an interesting notion that the 4 Princesses > normal alicorns > normal ponies. Which is an interesting power dynamic. It would also make for some Alicorn lore, and more specialness to the main 4 Princesses. And also that Alicorns aren't inherently powerful. Which is definitely one of the better ways they can handle this. But will the writers make her normal? Time will tell. It would still be a contradiction to the existing story, but it would be better than having an OP special snowflake baby.

Tangentially related, but not really- Mane 6 as Alicorns would be cruddy for different reasons. It would make it a bit more boring if they all had the same abilities. Putting them in the middle ground or normal alicorns > normal ponies would be a disservice to their importance, but making them all on the same level as the 4 Princesses would be boring. Also, that would make Alicornness TOO normal. I like the idea of "normal" Alicorns, but seeing a bunch of them, and seeing everybody attain that just gets rid of diversity, and makes things flat. There should be such a thing as "special". Because if nobody is above the rest, then it becomes washed out.

At first that may seem contradictory, but the short way of saying it is this. There should be "special" characters. But that specialness should be earned, not given. Also, if too many people are special, nobody will be, hence having an entire cast of "special" characters (ascended alicorns) would cheapen the value of that gain.

It can be said that MLP was created to sell toys, but it should be subtle, and it isn't good if the story we love is harmed by MLPs status as a toy commercial. The writers chose to make a good show, and when Hasbro makes an executive decision in affront to the canon, it is infuriating. Just a reminder that they only care about their bottom line, breaking through the 4th wall without a care. When stuff like this happens, it snaps the viewer back to reality, saying "That doesn't fit! HASBROOOOO!"

That's what I can think of in terms of direct responses to my points

Now, how can the baby be done as well as possible? (in order of preference)

1) The Changeling theory is fascinating and would actually be amazing. But I doubt it

2) She is disabled/deformed and she can't fly or use magic or something like that. This gives her flaws. If her power is negated in this way, it's an interesting way to use her. The only exception is I don't want a darn dumbo story where the only thing she has to worry about is bullies. Bullying has been done very well in this show already. Don't need to cover it anymore.

3) She is some kind of omen. Not my favorite choice, but if it's something where she is barely featured, then I don't mind much.

4) She is just a normal pony. Nothing special about her, and she's just there. This makes her no better or worse than Cadence and Shining in their first appearances.

5) Don't feature her like, at all, outside of these two episodes

Stories I DON'T want.

1) Chosen One BS

2) As powerful as the Princesses

3) Poof-format stories where she goofs stuff up only for everyone else to clean it up

4) Kidnapping. Unless it is related to the changeling story possibility mentioned above.

5) The only conflict is dealing with a "special" baby that is harder to take care of than normal babies

6) Dumbo/bullying type of story

Anyways, that is a big read, I know, but please do.

Also, I should point out that her eyes being bigger is just the new Foal model. If you remember the Pinkie Pie episode, AJ had this eye style in her baby picture as well.

Celestia and Luna didn't actually do anything first to become princesses. Them being alicorns was enough in everyone else's eyes to make them princesses.

IIRC, not everybody accepted them. Solid chunks of the population either followed their own rulers, or wanted nothing to do with the sisters. So they had to prove themselves to rule ALL of Equestria. To prove they had that role to everypony.

Yeah, I just didn't feel like writing "what is now Canterlot" again . I wanted to get straight to the point for laziness

Well, first, all pony babies are disproportionate, hay, even school-age foals are kinda disproportionate. Second, I don't think we'll actually see her doing great things because she'll still be a baby by the show's end. Besides, if she were to be a princess and stuff, I'm sure her parents will provide some strict tutoring so she can take their place

But the issue I have is that the other 4 Princesses did things before they were ever considered a Princess, and this was because there was always a spirit of female self-empowerment in this show. Being a born Princess brings up archaic ideals of being born great, rather than making your own greatness.

Personally, I can't but see a super powerful baby, if she does turn out that way, to be more of a deus ex machina than a Mary Sue (kind of like Togepi from the original Pokemon series). Unless she goes Renesmee from Twilight and suddenly grows up or is able to communicate just fine, she'll still only be a baby which to me tend to feel more like props than characters.

This is my fear. Powerful babies historically only become a moving plot device. There isn't much characterization you can do, so they just kind of drift through the plot doing what the plot needs them to. They're a Mary Sue, MacGuffin, and Deus Ex Machina all in one (I'm looking at YOU Poof).

Glad to see somebody else was thinking the same thing. And the writers were forced  to include this fruitcake.

You're assuming that being an Alicorn inherently makes a character a Mary Sue, which is not true. Characters who are Alicorns have been Mary Sues, but that is not because they are Alicorns. Give this character a chance to do something before you instantly brand it as Mary Sue.

 

 

 

 

So that means that no one can be stronger than Twilight ever? That would make for a boring series if the villains are always inherently weaker than the good guys. Where's the struggle? Where's the conflict? If Twilight was just so strong by default then she'd be boring and a Mary Sue. Is it impossible for someone who trained their whole life to be stronger than Twilight? Hard work pays off.

 

 

 

 

It's called being responsible. You have this super powerful unicorn who was strong enough to figure out how to manipulate time and space. Given the track record of Equestria, do you HONESTLY think imprisoning/banishing her would help? She'll do exactly what everyone else who was imprisoned or banished did: come back with a vendetta and try to take over, but this time she'll be stronger than ever because she's spent her entire banishment/imprisonment training. Banishment and imprisonment NEVER works for Equestria, so Twilight decided it is better to have that kind of power on their side rather than against them.

 

The greatest thing you can do for your enemies is turn them into your friends. Plus Twilight is the Princess of FRIENDSHIP. It's kind of in her best interest to teach Starlight friendship rather than give her another reason to be resentful of the world.

 

 

 

 

The novel's canon is not really confirmed yet. That being said, as far as we know Celestia and Luna were born Alicorns, so it's clear that they can be born naturally.

 

 

 

 

How exactly does that make her "flawless"?

 

 

 

 

Says who? Hasbro never explicitly stated they were rare. It's been implied, but for all we know there was a time when they were abundant. Plus having 5 in all of Equestria is hardly "common". Hasbro could introduce 10 and they would still be extremely rare. Hasbro sets the rules.

 

 

 

 

Oh no! The horror! People will make OCs based upon what they like that you're not forced to interact with or read about! Damn people for wanting to make a character that they like, how dare they!

 

 

 

 

What? That was never confirmed in anything ever. Wiped out? It sounds like you're mistaking fanfiction for canon.

 

Honestly, people need to wait for the freakin' episode before screaming doom and gloom. This fandom does this every time a major change happens it seems. Before they even get the details of the change they are already screaming how the fandom is over and how this is the worst move Hasbro's ever made. 

The books became all the more canon when GM Barrow joined the show as a writer. And the Book of Two Sisters- where we are getting a lot of this Alicorn lore- was written by a couple of show writers. So yeah, they're pretty canon.

Regarding everyone's accusation that Flurry Fart is a Mary Sue- how many character flaws can a baby have. Powerful babies are inherently Mary Sue-ish. In past implementations of magical and powerful babies, they pretty much always become MacGuffins, Deus Ex Machinas, and Mary Sues all in one. A lot can go wrong with powerful babies and it's hard for anything to go right.

True, the writers of the show are good, and made lemonade several times out of Hasbro's lemons. But this one is an even harder thing to deal with. The easiest way they can save it is by doing exactly what you say- making her weak, or defective in some way. Other options include simply not giving her much screen time, making her evil or something. My favorite possibility is that in-universe, all of the ponies act like born Alicorns shouldn't happen.

Anyways, that's my response to some of your points. The books are a valid source because they are officially licensed, and written by the show writers. And the Mary Sueness accusation comes from historical evidence of how badly "special" babies can go for shows. They can fix it, but the potential for a bland, but OP character is very strong, considering that characterizing a freaking baby is a hard thing to do.

EDIT: One more thing. The fact that Hasbro makes the rules ultimately is another reason why people are annoyed. Yeah, MLP is ultimately a commercial but simply put, people don't like when Hasbro makes story decisions. Because they're toy makers, working from a sales perspective, versus the writers who want to tell a cohesive story. Obviously they interact a lot, and I'm sure Hasbro asks the writers what they are doing story-wise. But when they go above the writers' heads and do something that the writers don't necessarily want to do, it just annoys people who watch for story, like myself.

There are born Alicorns, but the extant Alicorn lore implies that born Alicorns are far away, and in the past. The writers probably would not have done this if Hasbro didn't make them. I mean,  we were led to believe that Fluffernutter was going to be a Unicorn, until Hasbro said NO.

This is all I have to contribute to the topic:

tumblr_o1vjxy3xMK1rpb34po1_1280.png

Even the darn show admits this is an abomination.

I sincerely hope that they do something where the baby is actually a bad thing. She is disproportionate, which makes me hopeful that she is defective in some way. Also, the sisters don't look happy about it, so that too.

Ever since I learned that born Alicorns exist, I calmed down a bit, but I am still very concerned about her potentially being a Mary Sue. Also, it's worth noting that even though born Alicorns exist, being an Alicorn does not mean inherently royal or powerful. The 4 Princesses are special, even among Alicorns, and every single one of them had to do great things and prove themselves before earning the title of Princess. Born royalty is inherently against one of MLPs underlying themes about strong, self-made females doing great things.

I see a lot of emphasis on Hasbro being the one who's "run out of ideas," etc. But keep in mind that most of the writing and ideas come from the writers and other artists on the production side. I'm not ENTIRELY sure on how all the episodes get OK'd, but I'm pretty sure it's a back and forth sort of thing, with Hasbro having the final say. But don't quote me on it.

Partially. MLP is getting to be pretty old for a cartoon after all. However, you can't act like Hasbro is the minority of the problem, and it's mostly the writers, or even that it's half and half. This is 100% obviously a case of Hasbro saying, "We want a pretty Alicorn Princess to be Cadence and Shining's daughter... MAKE AN EPISODE..."

There are cases where Hasbro speaks from on high saying the writers HAVE to incorporate a concept or plot point. This is one of them, so was Twilicorn, Twilight's new castle, and so was Canterlot Wedding.

It's not even necessarily running out of ideas insomuch as Hasbro doesn't care what ideas can reasonably be brought into the show or not.

Nahh lasting long and being good are two different things.

 

Hasbro makes money out of this, that's it. 

If they do any kind of repeat plot with this dumb Princess, I'm officially declaring Seasonal Rot. Until the opener, I'm holding my horses, and checking my doubts. But if I see any kind of rehashing, or Mary Sueness, or overdone trope, it's official that this show is starting to go.

The clip gives me hope that the writers are planning on doing something fresh- with how concerned Tia and Luna are. God willing, there is a catch to this clip that we haven't seen yet.

Seeing as how the journal of the two sisters outright stated that the alicorns are a combo of earth, unicorn, and pegasi ponies and are supposed to represent everything Equestria was founded on- love, harmony, and friendship between the 3 tribes, i'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say the new princess was born an alicorn by the Tree of Harmony's will.

 

Simply put: she's going to be princess of Harmony, since Twilight is princess of Friendship, Cadance is princess of Love, and the only element missing from the 3 races founding is harmony, as stated in the previous paragraph.

 

I'm willing to bet that many answers as to the new princess will be provided by the Tree of Harmony itself, seeing how it IS sentient, and has already given Equestria its EoH (and very likely, the Crystal Heart as well) as means of defense, foretold long on advance that Luna and Sunbutt held some importance, provided Twi with understanding of its friendship magic, bestowed a castle to her, etc.

 

The Tree will answer any questions we have in due time. All we need do is wait.

NONONONONONONONONONONO!

No darn "Princess of Harmony". The whole point is that Friendship IS Harmony. The Elements of Harmony are comprised of the qualities needed to sustain friendship. Since the Elements represent Friendship, then Friendship IS Harmony.

And by the Tree of Harmony's will? Do you see her Cutie Mark on it? As far as the tree is concerned, the required players to maintain Harmony are already in action. Further, this is exactly the kind of Chosen One plot that the show doesn't need. Adding a Chosen One plot into a show this late never goes well. Something as important as a Chosen One needs to be done from the start, and even then it's such an overdone trope. The show needs to stay fresh, and new. If she is some kind of almighty saviour, that is literally the worst way to incorporate her into the show.

And anyways, there are plenty of Alicorns who don't mean anything. I highly highly doubt that Tia and Luna's entire tribe was composed of important world changers. The point of that statement was to highlight that Alicorns are perfect for Neutrality, and nothing more.

I am not fanatical enough that the Alicornness alone will drive me away. But if they take a plot that's done a buhmillion and one times, I'm going to have major issues. No more Chosen Ones. No more all-powerful characters that are literally ALL of the magic powers at once. This is what we call an inherently horrid trope. Borderline Mary Sue-ness.

Well if you need me I'll be pouring kerosene in the DHX offices.

Nah, the hasbro offices mang.

I am expecting a May premiere date. That's is my guess. 

 

As for the foal, I do think her being born as an Alicorn is...incredibly odd. So far we have only known ponies earning that right and even if Luna and Celestia were born as such, they are clearly special cases ,with the whole controlling the sun and moon thing. So I am endlessly wondering what this all means. Clearly there is some shock factor to the characters expressions and that makes wonder, why? 

 

I am willing to give it all a chance for sure, as Flurry's design is friggin' adorable and I love that they went with regular eyes with this one. They look soooo much better to me. Maybe that is an ALicorn trait as well, non-creepy baby eyes. XD Honestly, I haven't seen much anger over this kind of thing, I think the fandom is overall okay with it, but many have questions, like I do. 

I had a major problem with it until I just read the Journal of the Two Sisters- which states that Celestia and Luna are from a group of Alicorns. But those two were unique, even though other Alicorns existed. They were destined to have a connection with the Tree of Harmony, which puts them above other Alicorns, along with Twilight and Cadence.

That said, born Alicorn exist, and have existed.

However, her wings, horn, and eyes are abnormally large- and I think something might be wrong. Celestia and Luna also look concerned.

My hope is that either A) something is wrong with her or she is not anything special. Just a normal alicorn with no significance. Preferably the first one.

That is not an objective fact. That is your opinion.

 

I've always believed that there were two kinds of alicorns. Natural and ascended. And I've always liked to think of them being a legitimate RACE far, far back in Equestria's history before some unknown cataclysm wiped most of them out. And they don't ALL have to have powers that bend nature to their will. None of this is set in stone, and I like it that way. I like promoting creativity.

 

The fact that natural born alicorns can come from ascended alicorn parents is interesting. I'm just hoping for something kind of matter of fact. Yes she is a born alicorn. Yeah, that's unexpected, but hey, whatever. She can do some great things when she gets older, but it doesn't have to be THE GREATEST OF ALL THE THINGS. She'll find her place in the world.

 

And you know, if ascended alicorns are a relatively new phenomenon, then them having children is something that could have results know one knew of before. Nothing is "wrong" per say. The possibility just never crossed anypony's mind.

 

It only doesn't match up with SOME people's pictures.

It's been said from the very beginning, since the days of Faust, that Luna and Celestia were BORN as alicorns. So there are born alicorns and ascended alicorns. I believe that alicorns were more common a long, long time ago, but the died out for the most part. And since alicorn ascension is a relatively new phenomenon, there's no precedent dictating that their children won't be able to be born as alicorns.

 

Also I love her giant @$$ wings. She's like Dumbo.

I'm imagining her wrapping herself up in them when she goes to sleep at night. XD

As an update to my stance on this- there is in fact a whole Tribe of natural Alicorns. That said, an Alicorn does not need to be royalty. Also royalty does not need to be an Alicorn. Th Princesses of Equestria (except for theis freak) had special destinies, and a special connection through the tree of Harmony. Further, their connection to the Tree of Harmony puts them in a class all of their own.

After learning this, I can say that there are two main kinds of Alicorns- born and ascended. Being ascended requires doing things far beyond the capabilities of other ponies. Born Alicorns are more powerful than normal ponies, but Twi, Tia, Cadence, Luna (henceforth will be known as the Harmonious Alicorns) have a special connection to the Tree of Harmony, which makes them even more powerful than normal Alicorns.

All of that said, and knowing born Alicorns DO exist in canon, then my opinion has shifted. I will be okay with Princess Fluffernutter if they make her separate from the Harmonious Alicorns. She is just an Alicorn, and isn't special in any particular way. Or, maybe something is wrong with her. That's okay by me too.

Two things I absolutely do NOT want to see is 1) a Dumbo plot or 2) some Chosen One nonsense. I want there to be a catch, or I want her to be just a normal Alicorn, and not included in the special class that the other 4 are in.

 

SPOILER ALERT!!! Look at this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2Xvnqi1b_c

http://www.equestriadaily.com/2016/01/my-little-pony-season-6-in-spring.html I found the link to the new trailer with the new princess. I like the new baby. I don't think people should complain about her being a princess and an alicorn like they did with Twilight. The show handled Twilight as a princess wonderfully and I am SURE they will do the same for this character. Now we can find out more about Alicorns like if they live forever etc too. 

 

Being a Princess of Equestria should be earned, not given. She needs to do great things before she deserves Alicorn status, let alone Royal status.

The Book of the Two Sisters mentioned a tribe of born Alicorns, so I guess I'm a bit over the Alicorn part. But she should be in a lower class of Alicorns. She is not on the same level as Tia, Luna, Twi, and Cadence - or shouldn't be. All of them worked hard to earn the title of Princess of Equestria. Also, she should just be a normal pony who happens to be an Alicorn. Nothing special about her- or even better, something is wrong with her. Because adding a new super powerful character with an important role is horrid.

OMG! A first born Alicorn on screen!   Everything Twilight has done to archieve that alicornhood, and now i witness an alicornhood by birth...   I dont know what i feel right now. This will be a controversial decision that may divide the fandom again  . The flame is coming, someone will make a fuss about that. 

She's adorable, but another alicorn?

Anyways, just in case.

 

Just saw the teaser footage, Cadence and the other Princesses seem not happy about the baby. What's up with that?

 

Good point! Perhaps Flurry Heart's alicorn status is the major topic of the premier.

This fact is my only hope. The only way I'll be able to sit well with this is if the show itself treats the issue with concern, or fear. Because everything, including the writers themselves, implied that Tia and Luna are the only born Alicorns. Cheapening the significance of being an Alicorn is something that really ticks me off.

That said, I really hope that Tia and Luna are concerned (the clip implies this). If the show itself treats the issue as if Alicorns being born is an unnatural occurrence, then it's alright. Because being an Alicorn has always been depicted as something that needs to be earned, and a status that means a role  that is necessary for Equestria. Having a character just being born with that kind of importance just cheapens it, in addition to taking a dump on the lore.

Everyone is thinking of dumbo with her misproportionate eyes, horn, and wings, and how cute it is. But nobody has really noted the possibility that something might be gravely wrong here. Something is wrong with that baby, and if Tia and Luna's look is anything to go by, something is amiss.

An Alicorn baby can be forgiven if the show itself treats it as what it is- an abomination, unnatural. But if she's just a normal Alicorn, it cheapens the Alicorn status, and just adds another super-powerful, super-important pony because money.

And to everyone saying "Dumbo??" I really hope it's otherwise. Bullying and insecurity have been done in this show. That plot has been done in this show. More than once. It's even worse if they do a dumbo type thing.

In short, they can potentially fix the garbage Hasbro threw at them. But only if they do some plot that involves her birth being an anomaly or unnatural. Or an omen. i would accept the idea that she's an omen too (unless they make her "the Chosen One". A "Chosen One" plot is pretty much going to kill the show to me.)

You know there's other possibilities besides "horribly wrong" and "Dumbo".

 

Also writers can change their minds.

Particularly if a toy company forces them to.

And no. No possibilities that I agree with. What, she's a normal alicorn with no catch? Or they give some grand destiny to a new character when there is still a lot to be done with the ones we know and love? They make her like Korra where she has to use great power responsibly? If she is a legitimate, normal Alicorn, the story possibilities are garbage.

I just thought of one thing that's okay I guess, and that's Alicorn lore. But it is stupid to destroy Alicorn lore in order to make new Alicorn lore, and ruins continuity. If you want to make Alicorn lore, keep the lore we have and then add new stuff.

But the point is, having "special" children be born is done a lot of times, and most of times that special children were born, the show started tanking to try and accomodate the suddent introduction of a new vastly important baby.

Nah.  I watched the clip several times.  They don't look worried at all.  They bow to Twilight, and they're kind of just standing there.  Cadence's expression is likely because she's still fatigued (hence the slightly messed up hair).  If they had been worried, they would have said something or met Twilight outside of the room in private beforehand.

You can't be sure about that. Why would they be frowning at a new baby? I highly doubt the Princesses are shallow to the point of being upset at appearances alone.

Yeah, I agree.  But there were many people that actually believed that Celestia was the one that created other Alicorns.  And some of them were more than willing to spend an hour explaining why they were 'right' about it.  And I know this is why there are people complaining about this.  Because it completely shoots down any theories about Celestia creating Alicorns.

 

Fortunately, we're getting an official answer to it right from the show starting with the Season 6 premiere.  So all those notions should be put to rest once and for all.

 

And finally, Celestia and luna aren't worried.  They're likely there because this is a new Princess.  Even if she hadn't been an Alicorn, she would still be a Princess because she's the daughter of royalty.  That's how it works.  The only one that even half-mentioned it was Shining Armour.  But honestly, it's easily explained.  Her mother is an Alicorn.  Her father is a Unicorn.  Alicorns have both Pegasus and Unicorn traits.  So therefore, there has to be at least a 50/50 chance she is born an Alicorn (probably more since she's female).  It's basic genetics.

They ARE worried. If you look at Celestia and Luna in the clip.

Wait, no Night Light and Twilight Velvet? Are you kidding me? They went to their son's wedding. They went to their daughter's coronation. Why aren't they there for the birth of their first bucking granddaughter?

Because there is obviously a problem here maybe? Because they have other duties, or because going to the CE from Canterlot simply wasn't workable on the given daY? Any number of reasons.

I'm highly, highly doubtful she's going to be a "pegacorn" or anything like that.

But, even the writers have said that no Alicorns are born, except Tia and Luna.

I really hope that something is really, really, wrong and it isn't a stupid Dumbo plot.

Looking at the at her wings, she has graded wings like her mom, 

 

And she could be the princess of Magic....that is still open....

 

Who am i kidding Sunset Shimmer getting that one.

 

There is still the TimeSpace angel....or light/dark angel.....Just look at pokemon and legendaries are princesses, well get something.

I was actually thinking... "Princess of New Beginnings"...

Like the image of a freshly fallen snow flurry. <3

I think you need to chill. Take a deep breath and expand your mind to be receptive to new ideas.

I'm fitting Princess McFlurry into my fanon universe as we speak, drawing her interacting with one of my second gens. I'll bet you I can seamlessly fit ANYTHING they throw at us into it and make it fun. 83

 

Also, I don't personally count ALL alicorns as demigods.

Just natural ones like Luna and Celestia... and now McFlurry I suppose!

Well have to see.

Okay. So assuming that, another demigod. What does she control? The rotation of the Earth?

And maybe it's good for fanfic writers, and cool that you're good with it. But for Story-based and Character-based bronies, this is a travesty that contradicts everything we read, saw in the show, and heard from the writers. Unless she's just a defect. or just a pegacorn or something.