BalanceBrony

I'll give you a lot of points for that.

 

I know Spitfire doing what she did taught Rainbow Dash a lesson was something that helped me give the episode a chance, but the way Twilight told Rainbow Dash to make her decision wasn't executed the right way if you ask me.

 

I guess you're right.

I would actually say Twilight was golden in this episode. Telling RD to figure it out herself is exactly what she would have done, and I feel it was a nice little treat to show her as a wee Trollestia-in-training.

well the fang i probably out

Sadly. I think we all wanted to see Fluttershy keep her cute wittle fangy-wangy. If she is ever in the same room as apples, I had better see it or I'll flip a cow.

@@Motion Spark, @@Dsanders, @, Once again, I think we are having "similar moral syndrome here." People are seeing similarities in lessons learned when they are actually completely different. In Wonderbolts Academy, the lesson was a question of safety. The lesson was that people shouldn't be put at physical risk for the sake of efficiency. It was a lesson against recklessness, not a lesson about loyalty.

In Rainbow Falls, Spitfire wasn't putting anypony's safety at risk, and she wasn't being reckless. She was in fact being very calculating, which in fact emphasizes the lesson she learned in WA. And since that is the only lesson she has learned in canon (not headcanon, and not fanon: canon) there is no reason for us to believe she wouldn't have acted the way she did. There is no evidence ever to suggest that Spitfire would understand loyalty, or act in a loyal way. I think people are disappointed because they have an idea of the way Spitfire should act, and when she went against that preconception (in order institute a very masterful storyline, I might add), all hell broke loose.

People need to separate their ideas of how Spitifire should act versus how she would act.

Just because it's true doesn't mean it's not boasting

 

Part of me wants to selfishly say yes because her arrogance is the one and only thing I dislike about her, and without it, she would be perfect to me. However, without having a flaw, I suppose it would make her character unable to grow and develop, which would make her character less interesting I suppose. I still think she could just tone down the arrogance a little bit though ;p

Also, as @@Anadu Kune,  mentioned, she has toned it down a bit. She said "It was nothing." Previously she wouldn't have added that bit of humility to her statement, and the statement would have just been "Yeah, I'm awesome." She's still arrogant, but less so than before, showing some development. But like Twilight's funny little freakout in the premiere, the writers still need to make it clear that RD is not perfect, which mean she's pretty much as developed as she'll ever be in terms of canon territory.

Soarin making real horse noises isn't a first in the series. There have been previous occasions, and I'm sure one did involve AJ sometime around season 1, can't remember exactly tho. And if Derpy did say "yay," I SURE AS HELL HOPE THAT WAS GREY DELISLE!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvb2fpaKaY4

17:57 is Derpy's yay.

But it's not Grey DeLisle.

Here's the way it seems these episodes will all go. As well as my predictions of what is to come.

Pony has conflict with their element

They learn the true value of their element (that's the rainbow in their eyes)

They teach their element to another pony by showing everything they learned

That pony awards a gift, which becomesx the key (I'm confident they become the key. It would be odd if random ponies were carrying keys.)

Rarity takes Manehatten:

Rarity's generosity backfires

She learns generosity isn't about getting reparations. Generosity should be for the sake of generosity.

Coco Pommel sees Rarity being generous, and the love she got for it

Coco Pommel gives the thread, which becomes the first key

Rainbow Falls:

Rainbow can't decide who to be loyal to

She learns that having your friends' backs by being loyal is more important than winning

Spitfire sees Rainbow Dash, and how strong and close she and her friends are because of loyalty

Spitfire gives the badge, which becomes the second key.

Prediction for Pinkie Pride:

Pinkie gets jealous when her position as laughter queen is challenged, entering a duel with Cheese Sandwich

She learns that you should always want ponies to be happy, regardless of who is putting a smile on their face

Cheese Sandwich somehow sees Pinkie display this newfound knowledge about what laughter is about

Cheese Sandwich gives Pinkie her an item which then becomes the third key

Fluttershy:

Fluttershy's fear of someone or something stops her from being kind

She learns that she should go to any lengths to be kind, even facing her fears

Pony sees Fluttershy be kind, no matter how hard it is

Pony gives Fluttershy the item which will become a key

AJ:

Any number of conflicts could make it difficult, or detrimental to be honest

Depending on the conflict, the solution will vary, but AJ will learn what honesty is all about

Pony learns the value of honesty

Pony gives AJ key item.

Twilight:

Nothing can really be said about this one. It all depends on whether you see her element as Magic, or Friendship, because the two seem to be interchangeable when talking about the Elements of Harmony. The conflict will vary, therefore solution will vary. And it's Twilight, so it might not even follow the same formula.

The key episodes seem to be following a formula. Firstly, the name has always included the character name and a hint of the plot. Then this:
 
Pony has conflict with their element
They learn the true value of their element (that's the rainbow in their eyes)
They teach their element to another pony by showing everything they learned
That pony awards a gift, which becomesx the key (I'm confident they become the key. It would be odd if random ponies were carrying keys.)
 
Rarity takes Manehatten:
Rarity's generosity backfires
She learns generosity isn't about getting reparations. Generosity should be for the sake of generosity.
Coco Pommel sees Rarity being generous, and the love she got for it
Coco Pommel gives the thread, which becomes the first key
 
Rainbow Falls:
Rainbow can't decide who to be loyal to
She learns that having your friends' backs by being loyal is more important than winning
Spitfire sees Rainbow Dash, and how strong and close she and her friends are because of loyalty
Spitfire gives the badge, which becomes the second key.
 
Prediction for Pinkie Pride:
Pinkie gets jealous when her position as laughter queen is challenged, entering a duel with Cheese Sandwich
She learns that you should always want ponies to be happy, regardless of who is putting a smile on their face
Cheese Sandwich somehow sees Pinkie display this newfound knowledge about what laughter is about
Cheese Sandwich gives Pinkie her an item which then becomes the third key
 
Fluttershy:
Fluttershy's fear of someone or something stops her from being kind
She learns that she should go to any lengths to be kind, even facing her fears
Pony sees Fluttershy be kind, no matter how hard it is
Pony gives Fluttershy the item which will become a key
 
AJ:
Any number of conflicts could make it difficult, or detrimental to be honest
Depending on the conflict, the solution will vary, but AJ will learn what honesty is all about
Pony learns the value of honesty
Pony gives AJ key item.
 
Twilight:
Nothing can really be said about this one. It all depends on whether you see her element as Magic, or Friendship, because the two seem to be interchangeable when talking about the Elements of Harmony. The conflict will vary, therefore solution will vary. And it's Twilight, so it might not even follow the same formula.
 
 

It could be that the CMC decide to be Princess Twilight's personal guards.  The comedy just writes itself from there.

Based on a recent tweet, its pretty unlikely that Twilight Time will be her key episode, apparently its going to be a CMC episode. Also, I would expect twilight to find her key last.

Here's the tweet for reference

Episode 15 is confirmed to be Twilight Time

This is an interesting point. Because the name would fully imply that Twilight Time will be a key episode. It follows the naming trend, and the plot hint of "Time" would imply that time travel might happen, which would allow for, I don't know, the friendless Starswirl the Bearded making an appearance? Meaning Twilight might run out of time for her friends while pursuing her wildest dreams? Hmm?

It would be annoying if this weren't Twilight's key episode somehow. We'll have to wait for the synopses.

 

My theory is that the six keys are gifts to the mane ponies for following their element of harmony, even though they might be tempted not to (and the gifts relate to their talents), basically, Rarity shows Coco Pommel generosity, by giving her the chance to design costumes for a broadway musical, so Coco Pommel gives her a gift of the Rainbow Spool, the first key. Then, when Rainbow Dash shows her loyalty to Ponyville in Rainbow Falls, she gets rewarded with a wonderbolt pin, the second key. Pinkie, Applejack, Fluttershy and Twilight's keys have yet to be revealed, although I do have a few theories about those:

Applejack: Is very honest with someone, does the right thing, gets rewarded with a golden apple, or something related to Apples

Pinkie: Makes someone laugh very hard, even though they're a big meanie, gets rewarded with special balloons, or something party related#

Fluttershy: Shows kindness to someone really mean, gets rewarded with a special bunny, maybe?

Twilight: Magics all over the place, the key is actually her horn, but requires all the other keys to be present.

 

I think you're kinda right. You see, it's clear to me now how the key episodes are going to go. There is a formula.

Pony has conflict with their element

They learn the true value of their element (that's the rainbow in their eyes)

They teach their element to another pony by showing everything they learned

That pony awards a gift, which becomesx the key (I'm confident they become the key. It would be odd if random ponies were carrying keys.)

Rarity takes Manehatten:

Rarity's generosity backfires

She learns generosity isn't about getting reparations. Generosity should be for the sake of generosity.

Coco Pommel sees Rarity being generous, and the love she got for it

Coco Pommel gives the thread, which becomes the first key

Rainbow Falls:

Rainbow can't decide who to be loyal to

She learns that having your friends' backs by being loyal is more important than winning

Spitfire sees Rainbow Dash, and how strong and close she and her friends are because of loyalty

Spitfire gives the badge, which becomes the second key.

Prediction for Pinkie Pride:

Pinkie gets jealous when her position as laughter queen is challenged, entering a duel with Cheese Sandwich

She learns that you should always want ponies to be happy, regardless of who is putting a smile on their face

Cheese Sandwich somehow sees Pinkie display this newfound knowledge about what laughter is about

Cheese Sandwich gives Pinkie her an item which then becomes the third key

Fluttershy:

Fluttershy's fear of someone or something stops her from being kind

She learns that she should go to any lengths to be kind, even facing her fears

Pony sees Fluttershy be kind, no matter how hard it is

Pony gives Fluttershy the item which will become a key

AJ:

Any number of conflicts could make it difficult, or detrimental to be honest

Depending on the conflict, the solution will vary, but AJ will learn what honesty is all about

Pony learns the value of honesty

Pony gives AJ key item.

Twilight:

Nothing can really be said about this one. It all depends on whether you see her element as Magic, or Friendship, because the two seem to be interchangeable when talking about the Elements of Harmony. The conflict will vary, therefore solution will vary. And it's Twilight, so it might not even follow the same formula.

I heard this as well. Bulk was probably the one that got the speaking role. Derpy coming back too was a big thing as well.

 

Anyways, I also heard somewhere that we'd get to hear a background pony sing in Pinkie's musical episode. If that's true, then I'm seriously hoping Vinyl or Octavia is the one we get to hear.

If a background pony sings, what better pony and place than Vinyl Scratch in a Pinkie Pie musical? But who knows. We got two major background pony appearances in Rainbow Falls, so that means the tweet hint doesn't apply anymore. But we can hope!

I noticed the realistic horse sound but I couldn't hear Derpy's voice. Not with all the main voices being overpowering.

 

You sure it was her?

It didn't match any of the other voices, and was heard at the exact moment she opened her mouth.

You're right for the most part. But I think that's intentional. For the buhmillionth time, I feel the need to point out what purpose the S4 premiere served. Aside from establishing a plot arc, it also served to move Twilight into the background. We learned that Twilight still doesn't really want to be a Princess, so she doesn't act like one. We learned that her character is as fleshed out as can be without being Mary Sue-ish. Done. Now have her go to the back of the room so:

CMCs develop

Rarity peaks

Rainbow Dash peaks

Spitfire learns

Coco Pommel learns

Snowflake gets some character

Derpy gets some character

Among other things.

Twilight was intentionally phased out a bit so other characters could grow. And we aren't without little things to show that she is still a character. She shows strong leadership, but also shows the same goofiness we're used to. Further, Rainbow Falls had a fun little bit where Twilight acted like a little Trollestia-in-training, by telling RD to figure it out on her own. Plus, next week is a Twilight episode, so there. She is hanging out with Cadence to be all princessy.

I think it was necessary for them all to be there to really drive home the lessons about loyalty. And I think the writers probably want the Mane 6 present in all of the key episodes.

Never. She would be a Mary-Sue if she did. And to be frank, it's not like she's blowing herself up. She really is the best flier in Equestria.

Even if her claims weren't true, think of it like this. With Rainbow Falls, RD has now fully learned about the value of loyalty and friendship, and received her Key of Harmony- her symbol that she is now an example for all to learn from. Her character on that front is completely 100% fleshed out. That leaves her arrogance as her only flaw. Do you want her to become a Mary-Sue?

So, how was she out of character again?

There was never any implication in the past that she valued loyalty over winning, at all. In fact, the opposite was shown. She always showed herself to be blind to moral issues when being competitive, and that was corroborated by this episode. I don't get why people say she's out of character here.

And even if it were out of character, there's no need to point it out: because it was intentional. Spitfire was intentionally written as an asshole. In this episode we see very clearly the difference between her and Rainbow Dash. That difference is Loyalty. Spitfire did not understand Loyalty until Rainbow Dash showed her its true value. She was written as disloyal purposely, in order to really drive home the message, and to show how far RD has come. It is to show that even Rainbow Dash's heroes now look up to her, instead of the other way around.

This is why it's a key episode. Rainbow Dash finally puts it all together and discovers the true meaning of loyalty, and then she teaches others how to live by it. Spitfire awards RD the badge for showing her the true meaning of loyalty, and being a team. She was a dick to begin with, but RD taught her how to stop being a dick, and as a result, the badge was infused with pure Loyalty energy, becoming the second key (Do you really think that the right ponies just happen to be carrying the keys?). That's what I have to say on the matter.

Guys, guys! Derpy speaks! Or rather she cheers. if you listen carefully, the two times the ponies were cheering, you can hear a yay in Derpy's original voice. The first time is right after RD sides with Ponyville. Derpy is the last "yay" you hear. The Second time id either during or after the relay, in another crowd cheer, also a yay.

So, I have watched Rainbow Falls several times today. And in two of my more recent viewings, I noticed two things.

First off: immediately after Rainbow Dash announces that she is choosing Ponyville, her friends cheer for her, If you listen carefully, you can pick out the different voices cheering (except snowflake). You can pick out a few voices. AJ, Twilight, Pinkie, and Flutters can be picked out, but there is one more that doesn't match one of the Mane 6, and certainly not Snowflake. The last "yay" you can hear sounds exactly like Derpy.

Secondly: After RD successfully qualifies for Ponyville, the Wonderbolts cheer, among others. Soarin makes a real horse noise.

Let me know if you picked these two little things out. Thanks for reading!

And three cheers for Derpy being an official friend of the Mane 6!

The episode was hilarious, cute, had a great song, realistic family, and great characters in all of the featured cast. Also...

CANON APPLELICIOUS!

That is all.

This was a great episode across the board. 9/10. Point subtracted because the theme of honesty threw me off for a bit, making me think it would be AJ's key episode.

What if AJ's is the next one? Pinkie isn't related, but is really happy and if AJ days something Pinkie would be devastated. This could be AJ's element challenge. It's good to be honest even if it hurts, because they'll find out eventually. Pinkie would find out, and AJ would learn her lesson.

I had the same idea, and it's certainly possible. Apple is in the title and AJ's official spelling is AppleJack, so given the title has some hint of conflict, and "Apple" in the name from AppleJack, it fits to the theory here as well, plus you are quite right. Something like this could definitely cover the notion of "sometimes honesty can hurt," as well, one of the many ways honesty can backfire.

Hey guys. Get this. I was just on the wiki and it seems like the key episodes are every other episode, starting with "Rarity Takes Manehatten."

It goes Rarity Takes Manehatten, then Pinkie Apple Pie, then Rainbow Falls, then Three's a Crowd, then Pinkie Pride. Interesting, huh?

New episode titles have been released guys. Episode 16 is called Twilight Time. What conflict do you think it could be? Perhaps time travel again, of Twilight going to some event important to friendship? Maybe even going back to Starswirl the Bearded, who we know struggled with friendship? What other things do you think it could be? Though I would bet plenty of money that Twilight Time is Twilight's key episode, which I find fascinating, since it implies Twilight's key won't be the final one.

Hmm........titles for the episodes with keys...........

 

I think it's pretty much of a stretch for me to figure them out but if there are going to be titles for them, these are the ones that I'd suggest:

 

 

Twilight Sparkle: Everlasting Magic; Pinkie Pie: Happy Ever Laughter; Rarity: Boundless Generosity; Fluttershy: Kindness of Others; Applejack: Honest to Goodness; Rainbow Dash: A Question of Loyalty. 

 

 

Pretty much, the titles I suggested would center around the elements of Twilight and her friends and have their elements of friendship tested and pushed to their limits so that they prove themselves worthy of the gift that the Tree of Harmony gave to them in the season 4 premiere for returning the Elements of Harmony to their rightful birthplace and have them be rewarded with the keys to the mystery chest for the lessons they learned from those tests.

Interesting titles. But keep in mind that it's been pretty heavily implied that this was Rarity's episode, and if you read the synopses for Pinkie Pride and Rainbow Falls, they center around Pinkie and Dashie's elements respectively. The theory in this thread was positing that, based on this knowledge, that the Key episodes will have the character's name in it.

I would go even further and say that the names imply the conflict as well. Rarity Takes Manehatten (how generous). Rainbow Falls, becoming lower than her normal self by forgetting loyalty. Pinkie Pride, where Pinkie will prove to be egotistical in thinking that she is the only one worthy and capable of making everypony smile, and when that ego is assaulted, her pride begins to eat her alive.

So here is where I stand in terms of the true purpose of the thread (the titles). The titles of the key episodes will have A) The name of the character involved and B ) Some hint at what the conflict of character is.

And I have a guess about the name of Twilight's episode: "The Twilight of Friendship"

*snip*

Pony of shadows confirmed to be an ending gag.

I had a thought regarding all of this recent discussion of the first key (we all know it's true). Each of the Mane 6 will have some conflict regarding their element. They will overcome it be learning why their element is so important and why they represent what they do, and then they receive their keys. If I'm right, this will be mad epic. And it will probably be the last season (WAAAAAA!). Let the headcanon begin.

Based on Rarity Takes Manehatten, it's clear that the 6 keys will be awarded when the Mane 6 overcome a conflict which puts their element at risk. Rarity's element was generosity, and when something happened and generosity seemed detrimental rather than beneficial, Rarity went against her element. The key was awarded when she realised the true meaning and value of her element, and realised that generosity is always the best way.

It's obvious based on the synopses we were given that Rainbow Falls will be Rainbow's test, and Pinkie Pride will be Pinkie's.

In Rainbow Falls, Rainbow's loyalty to her friends will somehow hold her back when she is competing for a position in the games. She will need to overcome an internal conflict based on her dreams being held back by her nature. When she does, and realises how to be loyal and achieve her goals, her key will be rewarded.

In Pinkie Pride, Pinkie's purpose in life of making people happy will be put at risk when somepony does it better than her. Only by overcoming her pride can she continue to carry out her task of bringing laughter to others. Then she will get her key.

Honesty is something that can backfire easily enough. Kindness will be difficult without making Fluttershy's episode dangerously close to Rarity's (being too kind results in being walked on. The only negative I can think of.), but they'll find a way I'm sure. But now for the big-un.

Twilight, Twilight. What will her conflict be? Twilight is Magic, and by proxy Friendship (friendship is magic). Magic backfires easily enough, but solving an issue related to magic doesn't really teach us anything, so we should assume Twilight's conflict will be one of Friendship itself. But I don't see what plot could completely destroy Twilight's faith in friendship's magic that hasn't already been done. It will have to be an external conflict which attacks Friendship, and destroys everypony elses faith in it, because I cannot see how Twilight would ever lose faith in Friendship. Some enemy is going to have to come- a spirit of hatred itself- that makes everypony in Equestria be hostile towards everypony else, or some thing to destroy Equestrian faith in friendship.

Depending on how they do it, Twilight might even end up stuck solving it all by herself. But whether by herself or with help, Twilight will solve the conflict somehow and restore everypony's faith in friendship, and then The key is Friendship. Twilight and her friends then open the box (and become rainbowified *shudders*) and defeat hatred and animosity itself.

After defeating the conflict and proving herself the true master of friendship and harmony, the plot will then carry on to fulfill Lauren Faust's original intent. That is, Twilight becomes ruler of Equestria with Celestia and Luna backing out to regulate more attentively the Harmony of the natural world, as was their original duty, leaving Twilight to govern ponykind.

Holy frick, this could be the last season...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

But what do you guys think of this theory? Do you see merit in it? Let me know your thoughts.

That may well be true and it does have a certain symmetry, cliche or not.

I wouldn't dislike it if such were the case, either.

Think of it like this. Based on Rarity Takes Manehatten, it's clear that the 6 keys will be awarded when the Mane 6 overcome a conflict which puts their element at risk. Rarity's element was generosity, and when something happened and generosity seemed detrimental rather than beneficial, Rarity went against her element. The key was awarded when she realised the generous way out.

It's obvious based on the synopses that Rainbow Falls will be Rainbow's test, and Pinkie Pride will be Pinkie's.

In Rainbow Falls, Rainbow's loyalty to her friends will somehow hold her back when she is competing for a position in the games. She will need to overcome an internal conflict based on her dreams being held back by her nature. When she does, and realises how to be loyal and achieve her goals, her key will be rewarded.

In Pinkie Pride, Pinkie's purpose in life of making people happy will be put at risk when somepony does it better than her. Only by overcoming her pride can she continue to carry out her task of bringing laughter to others. Then she will get her key.

Honesty is something that can backfire easily enough. Kindness will be difficult without making Fluttershy's episode dangerously close to Rarity's (being too kind results in being walked on. The only negative I can think of.).

But Twilight, I don't even know how it could be done. Twilight is Magic, and by proxy Friendship (friendship is magic). Magic backfires easily enough, but solving an issue related to magic doesn't really teach us anything, so we should assume Twilight's conflict will be one of Friendship itself. But I don't see what plot could completely destroy Twilight's faith in friendship's magic that hasn't already been done. It will have to be an external conflict which attacks Friendship, and destroys everypony elses faith in it, because I cannot see how Twilight would ever lose faith in Friendship. Some enemy is going to have to come- a spirit of hatred itself- that makes everypony in Equestria be hostile towards everypony else, or some thing to destroy Equestrian faith in friendship.

Depending on how they do it, Twilight might even end up stuck solving it all by herself. But whether by herself or with help, Twilight will solve the conflict somehow and restore everypony's faith in friendship, and then The key is Friendship. Twilight and her friends then open the box (and become rainbowified *shudders*) and defeat hatred and animosity itself.

After defeating the conflict and proving herself the true master of friendship and harmony, the plot will then carry on to fulfill Lauren Faust's original intent. That is, Twilight becomes ruler of Equestria with Celestia and Luna backing out to regulate more attentively the Harmony of the natural world, as was their original duty, leaving Twilight to govern ponykind.

Holy frick, this could be the last season...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

If that's true than Twilight's episodes would have been Princess Twilight Sparkle 1 & 2. Interesting theory though.

I'm going to be the one to assume the cliche... Twilight's key is friendship itself.

I don't think thats a good comparison: Avatar was conceived, written and (excellently) executed as one big story, whereas MLP  is meant as a slice-of-life series with the occasional adventure sprinkled in. Also keep in mind that MLP would have probably been axed if it failed to reek in money, hence it's pretty tricky to plan overarching stories.

That and editorial mandates (Cadence, Twilicorn) though luckily  not to the extend of other series (eg Transformers Prime got screwed over hard).

 

My point is that MLP is not really in a position to have epic, season-spanning arcs. And seeing as the slice-of-life elements are what the show des best, I'm ok with just  the occasional epicness sprinkled in.

I know. But the fact is that they have openly stated they are trying a season-spanning arc. That being said, I'm really nervous still, and will be until I see some proof that they can connect the dots properly, in good pace, without making it seem contrived. They are being insanely ambitious with this, especially given most of the writers have primarily dealt with the episodic style in their past experience. I hope it all works out.