BalanceBrony

To me this is a way of saying that this nonsense is coming out of the "toy-selling part" of the cartoon (or at least it's evidence of it). This is not the writers trying to tell a story. (AKA "bad writing") I don't know how things really work in the decision making process for the creative decisions of the cartoon, but this is, as you say, a bad idea from all angles I look at it.

 

Twilight becoming a princess and treated the way that she was treated, makes me think that the writers didn't have the intention to make her into an alicorn. At least not yet. I think that if the intention was that she'd become an alicorn, all changes would've been more organic and not forced on her by the plot afterwards. In my opinion, everything about Twilight becoming an alicorn comes out of the blue. There was no hinting at the possibility until Season 3 aired and that makes sense because the episodes are probably not made sequentially. The point is, if the writers were comfortable with Twilight becoming an alicorn/princess, it would've been more organic. People can disagree with this all they want, but there is no denying that the cartoon forgot she was an alicorn unless it was one of the few episodes that dealt with it. Not to mention all that uneasiness about her position and powers that seemed to come in contradiction to what she was saying in earlier episodes.

 

The reason I mentioned that interview is because Cadance having a foal, and an alicorn foal, was likely not intended at the time that Twilight ascended. Because it would make no sense for her to say what she said. Thus, this is a new idea and since Cadance's little spawn has those giant wings and horn, like the toy that she was made to look like, I think I have good reasons to think that she was turned into the special little snowflake that she is (both in being an alicorn and being the psychic kid from the Shining), is because some Corporate Evil Overlord said so. The toy came out first, and it looked like a deformed beast with giant wings and horn that belongs in a toy, but not in the designs from MLP.

 

I know that you don't see the comedic possibility that I see in this whole nonsense, but I think that the writers see the problems that we both see with this. And this thing will likely not be too important in the conflict of the episode. Otherwise, I see no reason to bring Starlight Glimmer and Sunburst into it. Unfortunately, there isn't much we can do about Starlight Glimmer now, other than hope that the writers know what they're doing with her. But at least, THAT sounds like the writers trying to tell a story.

 

EDIT: Is it understandable to be concerned? I've been concerned with episodes in this cartoon ever since Hearth's Warming Eve.

Alicorn or no, the Princess part was always planned. Twilight was, from day 1 of the show, intended to become a successor of Celestia and Luna.  So though the physical transformation was sudden, they were always leading up to "Princess of Friendship." And you see that in Season 4, where they cover her coming into her Princesshood. They had to make her a Princess in S3 finale because executives, and they would have liked to take more time getting to it, but that was always the plan.

And as for the comedic value- no amount of comedy can make up for Princess Poof if she is written as badly as the promo foreshadows she may be.

So, I was talking to another user and something came up in the conversation. So I decided to come back here and leave something that is relevant to the conversation to see what people think of it and if they remember it.

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2013/01/29/my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-exclusive-twilight-princess

But then, I would have called out people hating on Princess Twilight. Had I been a brony at the time of the Twilicorn controversy, I would have been initially annoyed at the blatant product placement. But I would have also seen all of the new story potential.

In this case however, there isn't much potential with this idgit. Product placement aside, there is also a problem in the way she's written. Twilight was still Twilight, but with wings. At worst, it would have been nothing of important, and just an eyesore to get used to, for me at least. But OP babies are too easy to use as an excuse for lazy writing.  That and, when factoring in the worst redemption arc, it's understandable to be concerned.

I wouldn't count on it, after the finale for S6 the odds of Starlight being anything but super good forever are effectively nil, IMO. At best we'll have a 5 second long discord style betrayal before she realizes she's wrong and saves everyone at the end.

 

 

I wouldn't count on it, that's most probably just something scribbled on there to look cool

 

Though, I do think we will probably have another episode with spike visiting or interacting with other dragons.

And there comes reality a-knockin'

Still, I've got a feeling that Starlight will betray the Mane Six by joining Sunburst by collecting a baby's power in order to revive Starswirl the Bearded a la Kaibutsu-kun...Don't get me wrong I HAVE watched that drama before...This is much like when the Demon-clan are collecting every human's desire so Demorina can revive Demokin again...Yep it might be like Kaibutsu-kun alright...Or more like an actual Darker and Edgier story-arc in here!

One can hope. Have her steal baby fartface's magic, and betray everypony. eh, eh?

@@LordDiscord,

The problem is that the powerful baby causing accidents while trying to learn to control it is lazy writing. It's a simple plot that's been done many times. This show is great because of interesting stories, deep characters, and good interactions- for me at least. And an OP baby is too easy to turn into a mere plot device.

Also, Discord is a character, with depth, conflicts, struggles, and growth. A baby cannot grow in that way because a believable baby can't have characterization.

@,

Unfortunately however, it seems like she is just jumping in as a main character with no retcon of the stupid little montage. She's forgiven, and is now treated as a best friend to the main cast. Nonsense. And that's another reason to be concerned. the stupid redemption montage that expected us to forgive Starlight after a laughably weak motivation- yeah that's what we're getting. And then an OP baby on top of it.

Exactly! Also, bear in mind, FOP is a terrible show with constant bad episodes. MLP does not have such issues, as MOST episodes are good! Don't compare it to a lesser show just because a magic baby has been introduced.

The reason for this is that babies of any kind, let alone magic babies, don't add much to the show. Babies, as incomplete versions of beings, cannot have much depth or interest to them.

If a baby is given too much depth, it isn't believable. But on the other side, if it lacks any kind of depth or characterization, it can't be anything more than a plot device. But how do you give a baby characterization? Because babies straddle the line between two terrible ways they can be written, seeing a well-written baby is uncommon. The only well-written baby I can think of is Dill Pickles.

It's this problem with babies in general that makes magical babies an even bigger problem. because adding magic to the equation just inflames the two horrible ways this can go. On the one hoof, the baby with no substance given magic, becomes an even BIGGER plot device, and it's all too easy for writers to leave it at that. On the other hoof, if you give it an unbelievable amount of depth, well now you have a baby with uncharacteristic depth AND magic.

Adding a magic baby doesn't automatically make this Fairly OddBaby, but it does bring it a few more steps closer to catastrophe. And that's where the concern comes from. The ways this can go right are not many. And they already took a bad step.

Let's keep to talking about our thoughts and/or fears about the Promo everypony. We're getting off track here.

I'm worried about how grossly OP the baby seems to be from the trailer. Poof comes to mind.

While you make valid points about sunbutt people, it isn't for this thread.

That said my quick thought on Tia- she is as strong or as weak as the plot needs her to be, and that's that. But I don't need a baby that fits the same criteria, because Celestia has characterization at least.

@@Key Sharkz,

I was in favor of Twilicorn and think she deserved it. I also think Sunset should be an Alicorn after Friendship Games.

Anyways, my point in mentioning this is because not every person with critiques is automatically somebody who was a Twilicorn hater. Generalizations are inherently flawed in most cases. I like the show, and I'm in the boat that thinks season 4 and 5 were some of the high points of the series and the show has gone up. Which is why I'm even more concerned. As somebody who thinks the show had just hit a high point, it troubles me that it's going to potentially tank with an idiotic baby.

That and Starlight Glimmer's horrid redemption arc- which is now made even worse, since it would appear that the little 30 second montage is now all we'll get in terms of Starlight making up with the people she harmed. I was going to forgive that incredibly rushed sequence if they retconned it, and did a proper redemption. But nope. Since she's jumping straight into the Mane 7 (blegh) it's incredibly doubtful we're going to jump back and have a proper  forgiveness arc. So now that's two bad signs.

I am also in the boat that, despite my misgivings, I will watch and see what happens. If the episodes following the opener are as good as what S5 gave us, then I will indeed keep watching. In making this thread, I was just bringing up the fact that such a ghastly storytelling decision as OP baby is concerning.

The theory doctor wolf proposed was that she had disrupted the Crystal heart, which was the thing blocking the perpetual snow storm in the first place. Remember that area had been covered in an overpowering blizzard before? So its Flurry heart didn't make the storm, she just ended up letting the storm in, which is considerably less impressive.

Still, overriding the Crystal Heart is insanely OP.

I too like the idea that it was just Starlight's friend. But in that case, I sincerely hope they don't have Flurry Butt solve the problem, because that would be even worse. And it is worth noting that the preview did confirm that Princess Plot Device had something to do with the problems in the CE. She is related to the conflict, even if she is not the sole proprietor. But the less involved she is with the episode, the better.

It's like, honestly. Everyone is saying we're being overdramatic, but the number of ways this can go wrong far outweigh how it can go well.

What we can see thus far is a thirty second preview. You can't judge from that.

Yeh you can.  Not fully. It can still be saved. However, it is concerning that they went the "OP baby" route.

@@Cleverclover,

And more Alicorn OCs.... *shudder*

@@WiiGuy2014,

But, this is a bad storytelling decision from what we can see thus far.

Her name is FLURRY Heart. Is it not at all possible that this could be her special talent? I'm sorry, I just don't see how we can judge this until we have seen the episode.

The fact that it was done so effortlessly is crappy. Also, if that IS her special talent, giving it to her so early makes her a Mary Sue as well as OP.

I wholeheartedly agree. This fandom jumps to conclusions way too often. It's honestly the only thing I dislike about the fandom.

Poo- I mean Princess Flurry Heart sneezed up a freaking blizzard. That's not a good sign for storytelling.

Would that be a good idea? Starlight already seems a tad overpowered herself since she matched Twilight in a fight without problem and potentially caused eternal doom to Equestria by mastering a spell that Star Swirl couldn't.

 

Actually, Twilight even mentions Star Swirl to be "the greatest wizard in Equestria" in the season 5 finale, so I really have to wonder how the alicorns stack up since they've hardly been featured/explained.

In the S5 opener, she locked ponies' power in a vault. So she doesn't necessarily need to keep the power.

@@ShadOBabe,

But overpowered babies do bad things to stories historically.

Yes, a ridiculously overpowered baby is bullshit, but I can't say I'm surprised this is the case given the show's track record. I'll wait until the actual episodes air for a more informed judgment, but I'm not expecting much to like.

Hopefully Starlight steals all of her power.

Don't jump to conclusions so soon. 

It's a bad start. Before I remained ambivalent, and now I am concerned.

The alicorn sisters being helpless is the norm of the 2-parters, so I don't expect the upcoming one to be an exception. Even Cadance during her first appearance helped beat the big bad guy of the story, though it looks like she has also become useless.

 

If the upcoming episodes really make the non-Twilight alicorns overpowered, especially in the case of the sisters, then that's another reason the show should stick to slice-of-life because there's no way in hell the team could ever do good high-stakes stories without making the relevant figures helpless.

But a baby being more powerful than them is cancerous.

You say you're not speaking in absolutes yet but the title that you gave this thread begs to differ

 

"fears CONFIRMED- New pony Problem" 

 

CONFIRMED- which in a thesaurus comes up as another way to say absolute in the way or something being real or existing or in this case something being true.

 

I can rule out almost every post you have made here as paranoid speculation. Nothing is confirmed here this is all speculation. If you really believe that there ways this story can be salvaged THEN MENTION IT! Discuss both the positives and negatives this is speculation it feels like your backpedaling here so if you really believe this story can be salvaged then discuss how it can be fixed and start calling this character by her actual name give her some respect! but if you are lieing to me just so save face then just come to terms with the fact that all your worries are found on little to no solid ground to stand on and this is not confirmation of anything.

 

I would be more inclined to believe what you say to me here if your other posts didn't paint such a different picture.

My fears about her being OP were confirmed. She created a massive blizzard that even the other Princesses couldn't stop. If that isn't OP, I dunno what is.

As for how it can be salvaged, I did include it in the main post. Or at least I thought it did.

Also, how can you absolutely rule out my posts? While true that none of them is absolute except the OP one can be proven, there are ways and trends in storytelling, and over the history of fiction. Storytelling logic says that this can go certain ways, and several of them are horrible. OP baby is a bad step. Now that OP baby is confirmed, we can have the worst case, where she is nothing more than plot device. We can have an eh case where she just doesn't have  much screentime. An eh case where she's just annoying and doesn't do much. An eh case where she is actually a super villain (but this loses points for Mary Sue-ness). A good case where she has her powers robbed. A good case where it's a birth defect. Etc.

But the negative possibilities are so ghastly horrible, and are far more common than those other paths.

But storytelling mechanics and historical evidence are against this going well. While that isn't evidence, it is a valid point.

I assumed she caused a problem since everypony looked scared to deah when she created that huge magic beam nd then that sorm thing happened and it took that dramatic turn. Maybe not. But then, the ending makes me think she's gonna save the day somehow...which kinda leads me to believe she's gonna be the "Poof" of this series, just like the OP said.c:

If she is the one that solves  the problem, then that is officially the absolute worst case scenario. Ideally, Starlight steals Flurry Butt's magic.

I'm not speaking in absolutes yet. There are ways this can be salvaged. But historically, I have yet to see an OP baby plot go well. Babies have no characterization because they don't yet have mental faculties. So she probably won't have character. If she does have character, than as a baby with depth, that would make her a Mary Sue, trading one flaw for another.

If they don't give her character, then she can only be a plot device, which is yet another form of bad writing. Even here, all she is doing is going "googoo" and farting out a massive blizzard. And I highly doubt she will stop going "goo" and start talking. If she does, that walks the line of Mary Sue territory.

The ways this can go wrong far outweigh the ways it can go right. I am not yet giving up, but my concern has been increased by this preview. A step in the wrong direction has been made.

What problem are you talking about? The trailer said nothing about Flurry heart creating a problem.

The trailer heavily implies Flurry Fart did the blizzard by accident.

I fail to see the problem with this. Yes, the alicorn baby is powerful but it's not like it's the first time we have seen an OP baby in the show. 

Not this kind of OP. Not "Stronger than the other Princesses" OP. The cakes weren't OP anyways. They had the power levels of a normal pony. The direction this is heading towards is that Flurry Face is nothing more than a plot device.

Name ONE time adding a baby to a show has affected it positively.

My point exactly. However, there are different levels of bad with babies. And they did it the WORST possible way.

I'm honestly more concerned with starlight's spot in the plot than flurry hearts, honestly.

A way they can save it is if Starlight steals Furry Fart's magic and locks it away. Forever.

Oh my gosh, this idea seems kinda overdone in cartoons. Random and unexpected, seemingly-innocent character has more power than other conceivably imagine. I didn't like Flurry Heart from the beginning, and now I see she's a set up and will probably be the main villain of the season finale and they'll have to calm her down. Until then, she'll probably be a recurring character that gets a ton of screen time being annoying and making baby sounds and Twilight will be left to watch her and break her back while she destroys everything and all the princesses will blame Twilight.

So Fairly OddBaby and Poof.