OmegaBeamOfficial

as far as i knew, mario did not have a fandom... do you have any bleach by chance?

Well of course Mario has a fandom, It's one of the biggest video game franchises of all time, any franchise has a fanbase, you know that right? But no, sorry, ain't got no bleach...

Sega wants to bring back the glory days of the Sonic franchise which involves reviving the classic feel of the brand. Sonic Mania is a step in the right direction but they can't ignore the modern iteration even if it hasn't always been a smooth ride. The comics have kind of done the same thing. They started out goofy but then became dark and serious before moving it back towards goofy but with dark and serious tones thrown in for good measure.

They aren't ignoring the Modern iteration though, we have Project Sonic 2017.

I think the internet treats it right, its a cringy fandom and everyone OC is just a recolor of sonic with really really bad fictions made for it that are really cring worthy.

Not all of it, I'll agree I've seen a lot of bad OC's, but as for fanfics, that goes for ANY fandom, that's not to say all fanfiction is bad, but every fandom will have It's share of bad fanfics, MLP has it, Sonic has it, everyone has it. I think It's also a bit of a stretch to say EVERY OC is bad though, I've seen good ones out there... Is it really too much to ask that Sonic gets the same respect as Mario, when the Mario fandom does all the same things you mention here?

There will always be those who pine for the classics and refuse to acknowledge the newer games.

Yes, and those people are pretty much satisfied, in fact they're one of the few crowds SEGA pays attention to.

Why did you not put turning into stone and being sent to the moon? Though the EoH has different punishments for different villains.

Well, that's pretty much the same sort of solution as Tartarus.

Nostalgia is what people want to experience when it comes to old franchises that have been around for years. Video game companies attempt to recreate this feeling only to wind up with mixed results from the fans.

Yes, but of course there will be mixed results. I'm hoping people judge Sonic Mania based on how the actual game holds up on It's own instead of how close it feels to the classics. I'm also sick of people complaining about there being more remastered stages than new ones, I mean Green Hill Zone is like a remastered Sonic 1, that's as close to classic as they can get.

And sometimes that can prove to be just as detrimental. By choosing to remain stagnant and not wanting to try new ideas, the only ones who will remain enthralled by both franchises are the hardcore fans, but even they have their limits.

 

The Sonic fans just can't be satisfied can they?

Be honest, are we in any position to say that too? XD

No, we are not. The brony fandom is just as bad as the Sonic fandom when it comes to being satisfied.

I think the message was a bit misunderstood. I'm not saying the Sonic fans are bad for wanting different things, It's just that SEGA has effectively handicapped themselves to the point where no game can really please everybody, I don't blame us fans for being mad. I mean, say for example, I played Resident Evil 6 and didn't like it because it wasn't like the older Resident Evil games (Just a hypothetical, I've never played RE and I actually like third person shooters), would you really be able to blame me for being disappointed?

A bunch of old farts desperate for the Sonic 4 and Sonic 5 are finally getting what they want at the expense of good modern sonic, which sucks.

Have we all forgotten about Project Sonic 2017? We're not losing Modern Sonic any time soon. Besides, they did try making a Sonic 4 before, and it just came out mediocre. Generations did Classic Sonic a lot better, and I feel like Mania will too.

Sonic Team's and to an extent, Sega's, problem is that they keep on changing the Sonic formula every few games rather than attempt to tweak what they currently have until it's as close to perfect as they can make it. They need to have consistency and not rely on gimmicks that go against what the franchise stands for, and they really do need to work on the camera issues.

I know, that's a little of what I'm leaning towards hoping for too, but sadly, I'm realising that SEGA appealing to appealing to everyone is almost impossible, with everyone divided over the kind of game they want.

Some people want more classic games...

Some people want more Adventure style games...

Some people want another Heroes style game...

Some even want a Shadow style game...

Some want to see the Unleashed night time gameplay return...

Some people want more boost games...

Some people want more games like Lost World...

Are you seeing the problem here? And that's the main games alone!

That is true. Franchises like Zelda and Mario are doing well because they don't change too much.

Also keep in mind that when they DO change, It's usually just a one time thing or It's just taking the core gameplay and implementing a new mechanic.

 

HAPPY NIGHTMARE NIGHT!

This right here? This is gold.

Growing up, I was a Mario / Nintendo fan first and a Sonic / Sega fan...  Not at all, really.  But I got the chance to play a little Sonic the Hedgehog 2 and Sonic Adventure, and I more or less liked those two games.  Time went by, the Dreamcast didn't pan out (despite being an impressive console at the time), and I eventually saw Sonic games come to Nintendo systems.  I played Sonic Adventure 2: Battle on Gamecube, and that is still my favorite Sonic title.  Although I never cared for Sonic himself, I began to empathize with longtime Sonic fans who weren't consistently getting quality additions to the franchise.  I enjoyed Sonic: Lost World; I really did.  I've also heard good things about Sonic Colors.

 

And then Sonic Boom happened.

 

I kind of consider anything following that disaster to exist in a post-apocalyptic era for Sonic and his fans.  There were some good games that even a stubborn Mario fan like myself could appreciate, there was evidence that the new games were being handled by people who gave a damn, and then there was this terrible slap in the face that no franchise-fan should have to endure.

Sometimes I wonder what the world would be like if Sonic games were released with the same consistent level of quality as Mario games are, but one can only dream I guess. However, I don't think Sonic is "doomed" as you seem to imply. See, Sonic Boom did happen, but now we're getting two new games in the future which seem at least on Generations levels of quality. I'm so excited for Sonic Mania, I pre-ordered the collector's edition the day after they started selling it in my country. Besides, Sonic 06 was worse than Sonic Boom (I think anyway), and the series still held up after that...

This is so freakin INSANE!

To be fair they were using TAS which is kinda cheating, so...

@Sidral Mundet

Believe what you wanna believe.

OmegaBeamOfficial Did King Sombra really die ? I haven't seen this season for a long time I don't remember everything...

Yeah, he was obliterated to dust apart from his horn as I recall.

That's why they went to court yet the judge ultimately sided with Penders--he also wasn't particularly interested in the case. Issue 244 is referred to as one of the most controversial issues in the comic as they effectively "killed" off the Echidnas off-screen by having them banished to another dimension. This also included Julie-Su and Saffron Bee because of their romantic connections with Knuckles and Charmy respectively.

 

Other Penders characters were referred to indiscreetly and never appeared between Issues 244 and 251 before the reboot in 252. For example, Elias was referred to as "the true king" instead of by name.

Oh for the love of Mobius, they really did screw up this time... And what's with the judge in this case? I can respect his decision but you say he wasn't interested in the case. It doesn't matter if you're dealing with a lawsuit or a murder, every court case should be taken seriously and given a fair trial.

Speaking of crossovers, I heard from a Youtube dialogue that the Sonic fandom was the big thing with crossovers, before MLP:FIM existed. Is that true? 

Not necessarily, but having roamed YouTube a lot as a kid, I have seen quite a lot of Sonic crossovers in my time, even after FIM's rise to popularity because there are actually Sonic and FIM crossover's out there, I know it sounds bad to most people, but I think it works surprisingly well. But to better answer your question, I think Sonic crossovers were never THE big thing, but they are or were A big thing, if that makes sense.

So let me get this straight: the comics removed every trace of what made them more interesting than the games and cartoons both in story and world? The comics have always had the best in both regards imo. I haven't kept up with the comics in years but I dunno if I even want to if they've taken out everything that made me love it as a separate entity from the games. Yuck.

They had to get rid of stuff like that because of a mandate from Sega resulting from the legal court battle Archie comics had with Ken Penders several years ago. Anything he didn't create is still there although altered in some cases to reflect the changes, but anything he created is gone and the reboot implied that his contributions never existed.

I know right, that whole situation is disgusting!

OK, I've been looking at the recent replies and you're all making some valid points, It's really interesting and you're making me think about things I never did before, so thanks for that. I just have some quick personal answers to give.

@Ganondorf8

Don't worry, I do consider Sunset a big reform, but I want to keep it so this poll can be under Show Discussion.

@GrimGrimoire

Really? I don't remember anyone being sent to dungeons in the show...

@Sidrel Mundet

Who's ever been given that, I mean that would be stupid! (I'm actually not being sarcastic here, I legitimately can't think of anyone that has happened to...)

@A.V.

I don't read the comics. Sorry for that error.

@LeTrotteurFuneste

I was mainly thinking about King Sombra there.

The timeline is still there although heavily altered to reflect the reboot and it all happened during the events of World's Collide.

Yeah, that Sonic & Mega Man crossover right? Anyway, I still think the reboot was a bad idea and they should have just negotiated with Ken Penders to keep using the characters.

It's part of Sega's mandate regarding the comic. Comic exclusive characters cannot be related to or be involved in a relationship with the official characters, there can only be one of every character, the word Mobius can't be used as the name of Sonic's world, and there are some other conditions Archie Comics must abide by now.

 

 

 

He created the Echidna characters along with a number of other characters including Jeffrey St. John, Sally's mother, Elias Acorn and his family, and the majority of the Wolf Pack Tribe just to name a few. Under the reboot, these characters never existed and you wouldn't believe what happened with Issue 244 of the comic.

Well, I have to give them credit, I'd rather have them come up with whatever different timeline excuse they were using I heard about, instead of just starting from Issue 1 again. It keeps the flow going.

This is just a topic I've been wanting to touch on for a while. Whether it be in a Season finale, any random episode you can think of with a villain, or whatever, which method of defeating an MLP villain do you prefer. I've found 3 main ones throughout the series, Reform, Death and Tartarus. Some of the regulars on the forums probably know by now I prefer reform, but looking back on the series as a whole, I figured I needed to be a bit more open minded over it. It's still my favourite, but I can see the problems with it. For one thing, compared to Death and Tartarus, there are way more Reforms in the series than necessary, It'd be nice to see some variety. Death seems a little extreme for a kids show, but I'm open to it. Frankly I was fine with Sombra dying because he had practically no character to begin with, and barely spoke. I think Hasbro's strategy there was to make you not care about a character so much that you don't care what happens to them, and hey, it works. As for Tartarus, I think this was the worst of the bunch, Tartarus seems like the hell of MLP but we never see it and the ponies never go into detail about it, all we know is Tirek is trapped there, so that was any potential Tartarus may have had wasted. Plus, in all honesty, Tirek probably deserved death even more than Sombra did (not because of his character, he's one of my favourite villains in the show, but because he's done the worst thing ever done to Equestria in the show by far) , so... Meh. I don't want to see it return honestly.

You can also blame Ken Penders for what happened.

True, he's the one who created those SatAM characters right? I can't believe he kicked up such a fuss over Archie using the same characters they've been using in those comics SINCE 1993! Besides, It's not like he was losing anything with them being there.

Things were going fine until three years ago when the comic underwent a massive reboot that retconned everything by removing certain characters and events, changing other characters and events, and creating new things. Archie Comics didn't really want to go through with the reboot and even claimed that it wasn't, but fans knew that Sega demanded them to fix the mess because of being dragged into a lawsuit.

I did hear about that reboot. It sucks that SEGA will sometimes do something stupid without regard for the fanbase or anybody who might be creating content for them.

It looks amazing but I think it'll suck because it's Nintendo, the old people in charge seem to get dumber every week.

I dunno, despite the Wii U they seem to be holding up pretty well.

It's also non-canon to the rest of the series, so anything that happens in the game is strictly contained within itself. Would I like to see a sequel? It would be nice but I think Nintendo want to have their big games lead the charge for the Switch.

True, and I'm hoping the Switch keeps far away from involving any gyroscope stuff, it just makes playing the games that use it awkward, and this is coming from someone who actually liked Star Fox Zero.

Have you ever read the Archie comics? What are your opinions on those?

I'm afraid I've never read them, but I have seen the SatAM show which takes place in the same universe. I think the Archie universe was awesome, it took an unexpected turn and decided to make a darker, more substantial cartoon, and not in the Shadow The Hedgehog way, I mean in the good way. The characters are really memorable, the plots are decent, and It's real shame it only got cancelled after 2 seasons. Obviously I don't know if the comics are exactly like that, and they'll have changed massively as I know they've sort of moved on from the SatAM stuff and are now using the modern designs and whatnot.

@OmegaBeamOfficial

Have a great one!

Awwww, that's so sweet, thanks.

The developers choose characters based on significance to a Zelda's game's storyline and if they happened to be popular enough that players would want to use them. Medli, from the Wind Waker, was chosen based on how popular she was.

Fair enough. Again, I've not played any of the game myself, but analysing the footage and reviews I've seen, it looks more like a one-time spin off than something that'll be developed into a massive series.

Maybe you could mention to me in a private message instead.

Sure, maybe. PM me if you want.

You'd be surprised by how many people want to see one. There are plenty of Zelda characters fans wanted to see be playable but they weren't able to be included in time. They also want to see the other handheld games in the series be represented.

If Agatha the bug princess was made playable, ANYONE will be playable eventually.

I guess you could hot spot your Swich to your phone and play online. I am skeptical about how popular the mobile play will be. Don't let anyone steal it. Could you link it to the WiiU as another tablet? Probably not.

Doubt it. After the Wii U, Nintendo seems to be wanting to get as far away from it as possible.