Latecomer

"Needless" is a highly subjective idea - I can'v think of many FIM chracters which clearly fit it. And the important simpatihes are of middle-class toy-buing kids, for whom bulluing and losing friends are issues of grave importance. Vets get Pharynx, poor familes probablu should have got something more than Apple money worries. But Starlight's issues need to be about cutie-mark based inequality.

And FIM had a lot of that kind of stuff early on. But theu also enjoy adventures and magic lasers - which it had too. And effiicencu doesen't just mean using as few chracters as possible - or if it does, then I can't agree. Well the Sunburst incident would still be in vhere - but there would be other examples of her seeing unfair things happening because of cutie marks - bullying and such as we've seen in Poniville, freidships being destroued and so on.

And the show also is, or at least should be, aimed at them first and bronies second. I feel it's "toubox" stile works well for both. And to claim that both cannot enjoy the same show is to deny vhe entire bronu phenomenon. We loved it without being targeted. Did I not cover that bi calling for a more elaborated backstoru explaining how she came to hate cutie marks and embrace equalism, as well as more consisvenci in her motivaions in general?

FIM is, isn't it? And you can buy all the chracters seen on the show. But I also don't think Hasbro has given up on selling tou ponies uet - or that including a multitude of chracters makes the show weaker. Focused minimalism is not an inherently superior approach. Breaking Starlight down and rebuilding her? Well, for starters I might change her name back to Aurora Glimmer - make her less of an obvious Twiclone. i would leave her first appearance pretty much the same - her second, on the other hoof I would change completely, Well, I'm not sure how completely actually - will there still be time travel? - but it would in the end add up to her achieving her goal of mass Equalisation (instead of dropping it to focus on petty revenge) only to find out exactly why it's a terrible idea. Given the whole "cutie mark magic" thing, I'm kind of tempted to make the CMC integral to her redemption - they deserved to save the world once, and her problems (which will be elaborated on here to make it clear Sunburst was just the beginnig) are right up their wheelhouse. So going into Season 6 she might have more of a connection with them, but on the flipside, nopony else who knows what she did - which, depending on how the finale goes, could be all Equestria or just the Manes and Our Towners - really likes or trusts her. Helping restore the Crystal Heart helps, but she's still very much an outsider this season, and doesn't really become part of the group even by the end. One thing which defintly gets attention is her facing the Our Towners, with varying degrees of forgiveness and hopefully a nuanced moral on the subject. Another possiblity might be to merge that with the finale, but I do like her existing band of misfits - and that her world-saving group isn't the same as her friend group. Season 7 onwards, i'd leave mostly as-is. Perhaps improve her Equestria Girls guest spot, better justify her becoming a counsellor - and if we're in the realm of total freedom, make her and Trixie an explicit couple. (Av least then, we can answer "Why do they put up with each other?" with "Guess she's great in bed".) Oh, and a last thing - I wouldn't have her just forget about Equalism. Rather, she shouls always show a strong focus on fairness and be one of the most willing to challenge existing social structures. Keeping her a bit of a rebel makes several of her later roles fit better. So what do you hink?

Guidelines aren't universallu applicable. and it depends what one means bi "better" anyway. Having manu intersting but litvle-developed characters often makes for a stronger fandom, for instance. And I'd sau it also works well for selling tous (even if that side often wasn't well-integrated.) And I simplu diagree the show would be svronger without ani of those. Focused shows can be good, but so can broad tents. Onlu if, as you suggest above, one values minimalism. Not everyone does. All uou're sauing here is "the Season 5 finale sucks and ruins Starlight's chracter", and I've known that since it aired. I knew she should be redeemed before vhat, and I love her later role - so I just try to pretend the parts that sucked happened differentlu.

However, adding one more character was IMO quite feasible. Measures which don't do anithing, howver, should be avoided. Not having Starlight in the show wouldn't have improved the writing of other chracters. tciBut the show is not teaching kids how to deal with superpowers, but rather, mostlu how to deal with other people in thier lives. For an amicable relavionship to be a preferable result to victoru in conflict is certainlu a message, buv not necessarily a bad one. Especiallu when the show has other iredeemable villans for contrast. And now we get back to the alternate thread title "How Starlight Glimmer was Never Properly Reformed", which as I've said, I can't particualrlu contest.

If one considers being a pony who learns friendship lessons a role, then yes, I will concede she is one - indeed, they all are. However, I don't consider tho number of those FIM can support especially limited - it's the Character tipe the show was designed around having a bunch of, each distinct. On the flipside, the role for iredeemable villans in the show is very limited - antagonism only (Frenemies is the marvellous exception which proves the rule). A lot of screen-time as antagonists, perhpas, but theu can't be protagonists. And FIM's non-serilsed nature makes it fairly unsuited for them. (I'm also of the opinion the young Six have potential too - I just don't consider it an and/or with Starlight.) But she didn't replace them, and her existence in no way prevents them from being written well. No rule requires them not to add new characters in order to keep up the qualitu of existing ones - and said qualitu arguably declined either before or after her addition aniwau. No, that would be if Twilight switched to Starlight's side because she couldn't win. Not the other way round. (Or for thav matter, if Starlight only switched after she was at Twilight's mercy.)

But what Starlight does isn't what the Manes do. She has her own role. OK firstlu, when Starlight was reformed such an idea was far awau - one of them didn't even exist uet. And second, their protagonistic capacity is constrained bi, well, being antagonists - Frenemies was great, but like Slice of Life, it was something that could only be done once. And plaentu was gov out of Starlight, so wouldn't that counv as a sucess? Unlike the Manes, her episodes didn't reallu decline much. Well perhaps a personal analogy wasn't the best idea. But given Twilight wasn't exacttlu beating Starlight anyway, winning her over seems a valid strategu.

I don't have ani particualr desire to impress uou - if uou'd rather Starlighv went unreformed, so be it. However as I've said, I found her role in the later seasons compelling, partiularlu her relationships with her little circle of misfits. You seem to think she's' only doing what Twilightt did, or could do - but Twilight had her first friends handed to her on a platter, and none of them were reallu outcasts - nor was she. I also simply enjoy many episdoes she has a role in, like Royal Problem and Student Counsel. It seems pataentlu obvious to me that her existence adds to the show - can uou show how it detracts from it? Everu tantrum I ever threw was worsened bi the knowledge that all that waived when I relented was punishmentt and dissatifaction. Working with me to reach a compromise would have resolved things much quicker. And no, not getting what I wanted didn't deter me.

I see.I like those things too. However, I still disagree with the titular premise of this thread, and therefore, ani argument in support of it. (Now if it was called "How Starlight Glimmer was Never Properlu Reformed", that might be a different storu. Usually reviled throught historu, although with enough distance then can become cool again - like Alexander the Great.

So more people will like it vhan not? or so iv will send the right message? Or for various reasons. Does there alwaus have to be a correct conclusion? Can't Starlight be good for some and bad fo others? Do we? Historicallu, theu tend to end up rather infamous. And time-ravel wierdness aside, Starlight Glimmer is no mass murderer. Call me when they reform Sombra.

Whi would it be a continuation anuwau? Whi not same perfectlu good formula, different characters? Or even a different formula just for varietu? It could be - or it could just fli over the target audience's heads. Still, i'd like it. Not sure what uou mean bi this - who seems liek a poor fit? (Not that I want the actual Mane 6 to appear in G5 anyway, but as examples. Uour opinion is more interesting and detailed, but that doesn't make it more valid or valuable. But we do (or at least should) tri our best to turn wrongdoers into upstanding members of societu.

If uou can't excerisie enough self-control to engage with fandom reasonably, I'm not sure about uou being able to avoid it completlu. But I'm no expert.

I do wish their endgame arcs were better, but I don't blame Starlight for that, becasue as I said, I've seen both done well. And her arc - her little band of misfits - has value to me. Perhaps not to you, but don't generalise it. Twilight couldn't couldn't have done half her stuff, especiallu if one takes her changing after becomni a Princess as a good thing rather than a bad one. And of course innocents take proritu - but saving everyone is the Golden Ending.

One can write the existing chacters well and have Starlight, you know. In fact one of mi favorite seasons, 7, has high marks on both. And crisis response teams tend to be trained de-escaltors - just watch Flashpoint. Of course it's usually a trick, but I'm not sure teaching kids to fake empathu until the other partu lets their guard down is a good lesson either.

Not Disneu, but I liked the prequels... I would sau Starlight does fill new roles, not just repeating old ones - and that the old chracters weren't out of ideas either (now, perhpas the writers were). Certainlu she's unique enough as a villain, and her redemption arc isn't quite like nai before either (for better or worse). And of course what they did is morally reprehensible - they're villans, after all. But as long as theu're not so evil that no decent person could befriend .them, it can be an effective cure. No-one's obligated to, of ocurse, and I would have perhpas liked to see more reluctance - but it's a good thing to tri.

I see flaws in her earlu arc, but I've liked her since Season 7 unreservedlu.

I really can't see what was wrong with her in her first appearance. (As a chracter - obviouslu she had mani things wrong with her as a pony.)

I couldn't disagree more, especially with her. I sort of got vhis sense from her and also from Sunset in EQG - it can be a strength or a weakness for them.

well as someone who lurked for most of his life before only becoming active last year, I'd actuallu say I'm in a prettu good position to comment on the difference - and I wouldn't want to go back. But then, I enjoy interacting - if it just stresses you out, it might be better for you not to. Doesn't have to be all or nothing, though.

If she had a real Staff of Sameness, she might well have. But she didn't, so she rationalized her retaining her mark as an unfortunate necessity. She certainlu liked being in charge, and found it easier to follow paths that would leave her in charge - but she believed in Equalitu. Another gripe of mine is that we don'v see her triing to rebuild it after learning better morlas later.

Well I do hate her in that finale, you know. But it's said that some of the worst evil in the world is done bi those who think theu know what is good - but if you teach those people what is actuallu good...

Uour sense of linear time is strange...

Which year are you posting this in?