Ishmael

I'm halfway through Season 9 now. I can understand why people are cool on this season, but I'm still enjoying it. Great songs, another dose of Weird Al, and at last I have context for clips of Celestia yelling zip-liiiiiiine! Still sad anticipating the end, still battling insomnia, but I'm glad I have a little more to go. Savoring each one.

Such a sincere and thoughtful analysis deserves a commensurate response, so I hope this is one! (Didn't sleep much last night...) Character drives FiM's writing, and maybe that's a helpful frame to approach the Elements of Harmony. The "Art of Equestria" book includes an interview with Lauren Faust, emphasizing how she developed the characters and relationships. Reading between the lines, she really struggled with how the cutie marks could meaningfully represent each character's personality and drives--what they want and why they want it. (Interestingly to we Rarity fans, Faust seemed to struggle the most with Rarity's character. Hasbro only said they wanted a 'fashion pony,' which wasn't much to go on.) It doesn't seem like the writers had much of a story bible, though Faust did provide a one-page precis of what motivated each of the Mane Six. I'd guess they thought that level of depth sufficed for a show aimed at 8-11 year olds, and why they quickly ran up against limitations. Their well was shallow. I think your alternative Elements are very good. I'd suggest not so much alternatives as companions to yours. Pinkie: Solidarity Pinkie is indeed about laughter (or maybe 'frenetic joy'; as Maud observes, Pinkie is never half-excited), but I would hold she demonstrates tremendous growth over nine seasons. She becomes more sophisticated in solving problems, picking up on others' emotional states (she's not perfect, and tends to revert to old habits, but she always recognizes when she's done either), and taking big risks. The biggest I can think of is her meeting the yaks where they are, and undertaking a perilous, solo, and hilarious journey to Yakyakistan that 'fails', but gives her the empathetic epiphany that saves the day. (Plus, Pony Beatles.) So, to get all Meisner about it: what does Pinkie want? What is she trying to do, have happen, make change? I'd argue it's solidarity. She wants everyone to 'be happy', but more than that, be all happy together, in a constructive, intentional community powered by empathy. Nobody left out, ignored, overlooked. Everybody seen, as their best self. Writing this, I remembered an old twitter thread, remarking on how in the comics Pinkie's a little communist. Everyone should share, be treated equally, give as they can. She blows her top at selfishness. I mean, she's pink. And interesting to think about pinko Pinkie in terms of Big Mac, the one red character I can think of. Big Mac, the tireless worker, source of strength, salt of the earth. He's like if Animal Farm's Boxer wasn't downtrodden. (I'm hopeful my Russian history professor would appreciate this analysis.) Fluttershy: Empathy, for herself Your quality for Fluttershy is right on, but it's important to note that her axis of growth also points back to herself. Her throughline of becoming more courageous is only possible because she wants to change her passivity. She does this by recognizing her own feelings, accepting they have value, and acting to make the changes that honor her internal motivation. I presume this is why Fluttershy fans were upset with the FiM movie, as she lost this strength and spent her time cowering and whimpering. Rainbow Dash No notes here, though I see her confidence bleeding over into arrogance throughout the series. She is often a hothead, acting first and thinking later, or another character does the thinking and spells out for her why her action didn't work. All to say, your point stands. Applejack You've nailed her core personality. She's dedicated to her family (especially her sister), her friends, Ponyville, and all of Equestria. She is morally unwavering. Rarity: Passion, from insecurity You're right. Passion encapsulates Rarity better than generosity, though she is materially and (usually) emotionally generous. But I wonder where her passion comes from? No artist is satisfied with their work, and she's always seeking the approval of her social betters, and crushed when she doesn't get it. She wants to be creative on her own terms, keeping her vision her own, but she struggles with rejection. As we all do, but it hits her harder, because she is literally putting her inner self out there, manifested in something physical made real by her sweat and fervor. Maybe she has big histrionic feelings as a defense. Twilight: Wholeness of being I think you hit what Twilight's about with the balance part of studiousness. The first thing I thought of from your description was syncretism, which is a graduate school word meaning the fusion of different belief systems or schools of thought. (Sorry, I learned the word recently and it pops up now.) Twilight's arc through the show is one of synthesis and fusion--of becoming a fully-realized pony with a coherent, healthy personality. We first meet her as utterly bookish with no social dimension to speak of, thoughtful but awkward, maybe even timid. Over nine seasons, we see her not so much learn friendship, but incorporate the attributes of the other Mane Six. She goes through Erik Erikson's growth stages, becoming a fully-realized person, with a personality all her own. So I'd argue she's bigger than just balancing study and social dimensions. She's a great symbol for the kids watching, synthesizing so many things in their own personal quests to be fully realized people. Maybe this is a little wooly for a kid's show, but there must be something to why so many adults love it.

It must be something to have grown up with the show! I'm glad you enjoy it still, post-college. You remind me of Sesame Street playing in the background during my college years--something happy and alive for company while studying. Some things really find the sweet spot and land so well, as if they're a sense or a limb you didn't know you were missing, suddenly there. Rewatched Best Gift Ever. The opening song is easily the most upbeat Christmas themed minor-key piece of music I can think of. Great characterization throughout, which makes me wonder what FiM would've been like with enough time for more complex stories. Best joke goes to Pinkie: "Were you attacked by a party?" The whole thing just glows. Thanks for your other tips. I think that Friendship is Forever series is included in the playlist I'm watching. Sad to hear it's a clip show, but not surprised. Youtube is now suggesting all kinds of FiM adjacent things that just baffle me. CGI Pinkie, voiced by somebody else, as a late night host. Pony Life, which has some charm. Weird stop-motion things with FiM toys, but no dialog, only Teletubby noises. From lightning in a bottle to an empty bottle, I guess. Fifteen years is a long time. So much has happened! And here we are. I'm glad to be here.

Thanks @Maplehoof, @rascalrat, and everyone else in the thread. It's comforting to know there are understanding people I can talk to about this. It has been a long fifteen years. In retrospect, I realize I'm fortunate that it's been mostly equal highs and lows, with several very good years in the 2010s. And aside from covid and, well, the disintegration of the West, turning 50 hasn't been so bad. Having a stroke that I 98% walked away from lends a certain perspective. It can be easy to have unhealthy nostalgia, or a more grim reconsideration of the past. I have spent far too much of my life dwelling on 'mistakes' and missed opportunities, taking too long to do things, not achieving things important to me when I was younger. I might have done some unhealthy past-spelunking a little watching the show. Watching that last title card, its copyright date marching inexorably forward from 2010, naturally prompts reflections of what was going on in 2011, 2012, and on to now. But for the most part, I've been able to appreciate the (usually) great writing, laugh at the clever jokes and allusions, delight in the great care taken in the design and animation, enjoy the songs (not all winners, but most are very good and some are breathtaking), and feel a connection to a good decade that had to end, in order to stay good. We can miss the show, just as we can take solace that it had a very good run. It didn't turn into The Simpsons, lurching along as a hollow shell of itself for twenty-five years after it should've ended. Just finished watching Season 9's "Frememies." I've reached the point where I stopped moving forward, so now there's nowhere to go but forward. Season 8 is much better than on the first watch, with several great standouts. I've forgotten most of 9, so it was nice to have it seem new. As my oldest friend encourages: forward! (Edit for grammar and adding the last graf.)

The world is a different place from 2010. Those of you who grew up with the show, or otherwise kept with it from the beginning, were part of something remarkable. The official Youtube channel posted this a few days ago:

Well, season 8 is behind me. The holiday special awaits rewatching--I thought it was charming and hilarious the first time, the balance of sentimentality and zaniness perfect--and then it's season 9. I only watched a few season 9 episodes before realizing this was it: the end. It stunned me to realize this little show would be over, and how sad that made me. Now that I've rewatched the entire series (and several episodes more than once) I can't deny it. From the g5 discussion, looks like I'll only be disappointed with what follows. Naivete would have me say that Hasbro had managed to bottle lightning, and then inexplicably dropped the bottle. But after life of working in big corporations, dropping the bottle is not only inevitable, but often deliberate. It's fitting that with summer over and the clouds coming back that I devote my full attention to what's left. Just wanted to share. If anyone's interested in a watch party, let me know.

This is a little late, and not the right forum, but asking here as others might be interested in the current availability of MLP:FiM physical media. Was the show ever released on Blu-ray? As of today, Shout Factory does have the 1-7 DVDs. They're even on sale! But they appear to have been produced around 2017. MLP:FiM is on Youtube at full 1080p HD, and I would've guessed the show was popular enough to have merited Blu-rays. I can't find the Chinese discs for seasons 8 and 9. Is there any more current information about this? Thanks in advance and sorry for the clutter.

I just started rewatching season 8, and I only watched a little of season 9, so I still have new things to anticipate. But after that, I think that's it. Are there any specials or one-offs I should look for?

Yeah, no kidding. Where did fifteen years go?

Since posting my other thread, I decided to go beyond just rewatching a few favorite episodes out of the series. I started from the beginning, the long-lost era of 2010 and the first season. I'm glad I did, even though my motivation for doing so was to delay watching the entire series for a little longer, because I knew that would make me sad. Maybe this is absurd for a guy in his 50s, but I don't recall having such warm feelings for a show--not even as a kid watching the original Star Trek. I've finished rewatching season 7, rewatched a Youtube clip version of the 2017 movie (first saw it on Bluray from the library), and just started season 8. Each 22 minutes is a respite from being older, from realizing my 40s are over, from all the horrible things going on in the world I'm powerless to do anything about, but I feel the moral injury just the same. But it does sadden me a little to realize that I'll soon come to the end of the show. There won't be anything new to look forward to, though I suppose I could try to find the comics. (My partner's son bought me one of the Twilight combination issues as a joke. The art is a little underwhelming, but the writing is in keeping with the show.) I suppose I'm a little like some people I remember from high school, and later college--those people who hung on to childhood or school for as long as they could, knowing once that door closed, you could never really go back. The first time only happens once. Or, as my AA friends say, the clock only ticks forward. I don't have anything to say, or ask for. I suppose it's more comfortable to post about this to online strangers than talk to my (understanding) therapist. Things have to end, and I suppose this is a reflection on how I've come to this place. Rewatching the first seasons, I remember watching some episodes in 2011-2013, when I was freshly divorced and coming into my own in a way I don't think I ever really had before. When I had the idea to start watching the show again about a year ago, I'm not sure what exactly spurred it, but I was still recovering from my stroke, and it's easy to understand wanting something bright, innocent and positive. Now I'm 15 months since then, and aside from some lingering stiffness in my feet I can't ever quite fully stretch out, I'm recovered. My only real problem is intractable insomnia that is at last coming under control (the CPAP is as life-changing as advertised), and just...wishing I'd been the writer I'm trying to be now sooner. I'm glad I found this place, and this show.

As most of the Equestrian diet seems to be pie/cake/chocolate/ice cream, it seems like everybody can handle titanic amounts of sugar. The writers were smart to have Celestia confronting serious problems more or less on her own. She does seem a little blind to some of her faults or those of others, but I can't think of an instance where she doesn't come around. This is the through-line of "A Royal Problem", and that episode is interesting as it shows how both Celestia and Luna have serious blind spots, but both are mature enough to correct them when Starlight forcibly lifts the veil for them both. What's really interesting to me in this episode is when Celestia faces her alter-ego. Daybreaker makes clear she's a projection of Celestia's subconscious fears that she's not the princess everybody values: "I'm the smarter, prettier, and more powerful version of you," or words to that effect. Oliver's delivery captures the perfect amount of sneering and dark glee of your outwardly projected subconscious fears and lusts. Even more powerful is the deeply repressed negative feelings Celestia must have about Luna, given Daybreaker's uninhibited regret that she didn't destroy Luna/Nightmare Moon when *Celestia* had the chance. It's strange to me that people don't like Celestia for her supposed flaws and poor judgments. It's faults and imperfections that make characters interesting, and create conflicts that require growth and change. An hour talking with Celestia would be *very* interesting. Since I'm psychoanalyzing an episode of a kid's show, I got some big, knowing laughs at Starlight playing therapist. She's collected and aware enough to recognize Twilight is biased when it comes to Celestia, and tells Twilight this in a very-therapist way. Starlight also uses classic active listening technique in the second breakfast confrontation, which Starlight more or less instigates. "Celestia, how does it make you feel when Luna..." and "Princess Luna, tell Celestia how it makes you feel when..." is a technique counselors used on me! It's a valuable skill not everybody learns growing up. And it's very uncomfortable. I really felt Celestia and Luna squirming, and could relate to their lashing out at each other immediately after.

A little late to this, but just wanted to say thanks for a thoughtful and nuanced discussion about character and motivation. It's a kid's show, but at the same time, MLP:FiM has a level of sophistication and nuance that reaches far beyond a kid's show. It's not perfect--Luna's instant redemption as discussed, and Discord's uneven behavior--but on average the show treats its characters with the same care and respect taken in top-tier adult shows. Regarding Celestia, I'd add that she demonstrates the qualities you'd want in a mentor, teacher or therapist. In addition to the excellent points already made, I think it was a wise choice to present her as being a little removed. The show's young audience benefits from the unstated message that the Mane Six they're identifying with, and by extension themselves, are capable of facing crises and solving their own problems. Celestia has genuine affection for Twilight, and in general offers Carl Rodger's "unconditional positive regard" to Twilight and other characters. It's also striking to me how Celestia is shown to have flaws, and can be vulnerable. "A Royal Problem" demonstrates this, and it's easily one of the best episodes.

Weird Al has a long-running theme of cheese jokes. The Cheese Sandwich episode is full of Weird Al cheese jokes and references. I remember lighting up seeing/hearing them, recognizing them from bits Weird Al and Doctor Demento did on Demento's show, back in the 1980s. I think that's part of the joke when Pinky pops out of the float and accuses Cheese of stealing her song, and Cheese denying it in a very Weird Al way. Can't remember much more at the moment, though that episode was wonderful with its layering of allusions and riffs. Cheese as The Man With No Name is just brilliant.