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gaming PC gamers, let's talk about Valve for a moment

long gone

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long gone

long gone 8,929

So, everybody loves Valve, right? They're the guys who made Half-Life, Team Fortress 2 and Left 4 Dead, and their leader is a legitimately good person that refuses to fire people over medical issues and, more recently, donated to the Seattle Children's Hospital through a racing charity event. However, that's not the problem. The problem is with Steam, the most popular PC gaming client.

 

Up until recently, Steam's storefront used to be like that super exclusive club that was wicked tough to get into and only the best of the best could get in. Now, that is gone, and trash such as Air Control and Earth: Year 2066 (good riddance), among other low-quality titles, managed to get on there through the Greenlight system. I am aware that Valve eventually plans to shut down Greenlight, but right now, their quality control has been thrown out the window. As in, it's gone completely shit. And that's not good for their image in the long run. While Earth: Year 2066 was pulled from sale and purchasers were refunded, this is just one game in a wave of garbage that has been hitting Steam lately as Valve tries to hand these things to the community.

 

Another problem is with their customer support. It's slow, sometimes unhelpful and they have no refund policy except under special circumstances, something that even EA with their Origin client is better in. Perhaps the biggest problem is that Valve has not fixed a potential XSS vulnerability in the Steam Community even after it was pointed out to them by Euro Truck Simulator 2 developer Tomáš Duda, instead community banning him for a year after he tried forcing Valve to fix the vulnerability. This is not good and can put customers' Steam accounts at risk if not fixed. Which apparently they still haven't done.

 

Regardless of what you think of Valve - I, personally, am a fan of theirs - this is still a huge problem that could end up being damaging to their reputation in the very near future, and they are instead silent on the issues instead of responding appropriately. They haven't even removed Air Control from the storefront yet (even though I'm sure it's been reported numerous times for its rampart and severe problems, ranging from barely working to copyright infringement) and banning someone for trying to make them fix a potentially serious security bug is just pure BS on Valve's part. What do you think they should do about this?

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lomk

lomk 20,663

(edited)

Earth Year 2066: $19.99

Borderlands 2: $19.99

 

I can tell you which is your twenty bucks better spent. I mean, sure, Borderlands is old as shit, but if you don't have it and you like shooting games, it's twenty bucks well spent.

 

How does shit like Earth Year 2066 get the green light? I didn't buy it but from what I can tell there's no point to it. And they released that shit! Like, a human played that game and said, "Yep...this will do." 

 

Valve really needs to crack down on quality control big time if games like Earth Year 2066 are getting green lights lol

 

...and Air Support...I think that's a fucking joke :lol: people actually pay money for that?!

Edited by Space Woona
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long gone

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Earth Year 2066: $19.99

Borderlands 2: $19.99

 

I can tell you which is your twenty bucks better spent. I mean, sure, Borderlands is old as shit, but if you don't have it and you like shooting games, it's twenty bucks well spent.

 

How does shit like Earth Year 2066 get the green light? I didn't buy it but from what I can tell there's no point to it. And they released that shit! Like, a human played that game and said, "Yep...this will do." 

 

Valve really needs to crack down on quality control big time if games like Earth Year 2066 are getting green lights lol

I've heard that shit like EY2066 and Air Control got Greenlit because they were sold on bundle sites or promised more than they actually had and kids who didn't know any better voted "Yes" on them after playing for a few minutes, completely unaware of the actual quality of the games. On that note, can you even call Air Control a game?

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KokuraiNoSenshi

KokuraiNoSenshi 3,463

My biggest problem with the whole thing about Greenlight is that it is voted on by people within the community. So overall, Valve doesn't have as much control over them as the people in the community do, which the people can sometimes be bribed to push a game onto Greenlight. Therefore while Valve should crack down on this, I think the real blame lies on some of the... Less savory parts of the community.

 

The second thing is, despite my own actually good experiences with Steam support (I once got hacked, lost all my TF2 items, not only did they track down the guy who did it but they also got all my items back plus a few extra thrown in, saying "sorry about this whole thing, here is a couple free weapons & a shiny new hat") I can agree they are slow & painful to deal with at times.

 

Currently my biggest issues are with 2 games specifically, & for different reasons. The first is my Skyrim refuses to play. I load it up, gets to the Bethesda logo, & crashes. No error code, no nothing. Steam support is silent about it. Then there is Mafia 2. Won't even get to 100% installation. It just disappears off my library. Still haven't heard anything from them about it. That was a few weeks ago.

 

Overall, Valve is the love of my gamer life. They have been one of the biggest, friendliest communities & in the online gaming world that is a rare & valuable treat, something that I personally cherish & would love to continue to be a part of for the rest of my life. They screw up, sometimes big sometimes small. But overall, I love those Valve bastards, & despite their flaws I think we can all agree Origin is worse

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Thank you Pinkamena-Pills for resizing the original, and putting that little message at the end

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lomk

lomk 20,663

I've heard that shit like EY2066 and Air Control got Greenlit because they were sold on bundle sites or promised more than they actually had and kids who didn't know any better voted "Yes" on them after playing for a few minutes, completely unaware of the actual quality of the games. On that note, can you even call Air Control a game?

 

No. It's a fucking joke lol Maybe indie game makers know about stupid shitheads who - like you said - play for 3 minutes and decide that it's good so they hit yes. Perhaps the people who made Air Control decided they'd throw something together in five minutes and put it out there for a few bucks and bring in a little cash by selling something that's completely unplayable and unfinished. But no. It does the all time greats a serious injustice to call Air Control a game. 

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Azure Envy

Azure Envy 1,092

It's easy to get away with a lot when you basically dominate digital distribution on the PC (though the situation is changing with the growing number of digital storefronts -- which end up selling Steam keys so I guess they still win...)

 

I give Valve much credit for revitalizing PC gaming, but the client has gotten steadily more bloated over the years and their support was always garbage. You know something's up when I'm telling people EA's support ain't half bad. Origin is also significantly lighter weight. The only thing I don't like about it is there isn't a "list" option for games like Steam has.

 

Early Access is an awful thing. I don't buy them on principle since there's no guarantee they'll actually finish it. Sad to hear they're letting pretty much anything on Steam these days. Would hate to see it turn into a mobile app store with games of similar quality.

 

 

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Early Access has turned into the fastest money making mechanic, DURING the game's development, and even after. It's got to stop.

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LunarWave

LunarWave 106

(edited)
Early Access is an awful thing. I don't buy them on principle since there's no guarantee they'll actually finish it. Sad to hear they're letting pretty much anything on Steam these days. Would hate to see it turn into a mobile app store with games of similar quality.

 

Actually it's a pretty awesome thing.

Half of the games I play (if not more) are from there.

 

However, Early Access and Quality control should go alongside each other, that's where the issue is. I see nothing wrong in funding game's development.

Edited by LunarWave 
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Azure Envy

Azure Envy 1,092

Actually it's a pretty awesome thing.

Half of the games I play (if not more) are from there.

 

However, Early Access and Quality control should go alongside each other, that's where the issue is. I see nothing wrong in funding game's development.

 

I admit it was an unfair generalization. I agree that quality control a big problem with some early access games and I've seen far too many games either stuck in development hell or overpromising and severely underdelivering. It's bad enough playing the pile of junk (if it ever is released) but to support it and see it fall apart like that is pretty disheartening.

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long gone

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I admit it was an unfair generalization. I agree that quality control a big problem with some early access games and I've seen far too many games either stuck in development hell or overpromising and severely underdelivering. It's bad enough playing the pile of junk (if it ever is released) but to support it and see it fall apart like that is pretty disheartening.

One of my favorite games on Steam, Kerbal Space Program, is currently listed under Early Access because it's still under heavy development. It's robust enough (and moddable enough) to be mistaken for a completed game, even though it's still in an unfinished state. If only more Early Access games were like that, but... can't have it all I guess.

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Azure Envy

Azure Envy 1,092

One of my favorite games on Steam, Kerbal Space Program, is currently listed under Early Access because it's still under heavy development. It's robust enough (and moddable enough) to be mistaken for a completed game, even though it's still in an unfinished state. If only more Early Access games were like that, but... can't have it all I guess.

 

KSP is a great example of this model.

 

Takedown: Red Sabre otoh, is not.

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M'aiq the Liar

M'aiq the Liar 5,804

Well, my issue with early access titles is that quite a few developers have been abusing the title as of late in order to cast of any criticism of their game. They use it as a shield going "you can't call out the flaws of my game, its in early access despite being full asking price". And even larger devs have taken advantage of steam in the past, like with the whole the war Z incident were the game was broken, boring, and littered with micro transactions.

 

I also do not like how easily it is for devs to silence any outcry against their games on the steam forums for that game, but again, such a large act of silencing does tend to speak volumes about how trustworthy that company is. I think Valve as a game developer is doing amazing, but as the runner of steam, it does need to step in and get better measures for quality control.

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long gone

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KSP is a great example of this model.

 

Takedown: Red Sabre otoh, is not.

Earth: Year 2066 was also not a great example of the model, although that's been pulled from sale and everyone who bought it was refunded. I forgave Valve for that, especially since they have no real refund policy other than one refund and that's it. I've heard that has something to do with legal issues, though. Like, with Origin, EA owns a majority of the titles sold on there, so they were free to come up with a refund policy (which they did.) Doesn't really explain GOG having a refund policy though, not sure how many of those games CD Projekt RED owns the rights to. Obviously, they own the rights to the Witcher games (most likely not the books they are based on, those were written by Andrzej Sapkowski, who afaik is not affiliated with CD Projekt RED aside from The Witcher) but what about all the old titles sold on GOG, like Simcity 2000? I'll need to look at their refund policy more.

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FoxyCryptid

FoxyCryptid 4,330

First things first, I do like Steam and have a few games on it(Portal and L4D2 because I caught them free, and both Sin games because I found a sealed copy with valid Steam codes at a yard sale and used them for the hell of it.) I also plan to use it(mainly for stuff that's on sale and Minecraft) when I get a proper gaming PC.

 

That said, the Indie game thing is where I have a love hate relationship with them. I have a weak spot for budget titles and remember fondly when I was a kid and you could go to Wal-Mart and find a whole rack of them for $10 each. Now said rack is populated by Hidden Object games and occasional re-releases of old stuff because Steam has cornered the market on indie and budget stuff, making finding hard-copies of said games in stores near-impossible. 

 

 

"You know, I don't know who or what you are Methos, and I know you don't want to hear this, but you did teach me something. You taught me that Life's about change, about learning to accept who you are, good or bad. And I thank you for that."

 

-Duncan McLeod.

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long gone

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(edited)

Well, my issue with early access titles is that quite a few developers have been abusing the title as of late in order to cast of any criticism of their game. They use it as a shield going "you can't call out the flaws of my game, its in early access despite being full asking price". And even larger devs have taken advantage of steam in the past, like with the whole the war Z incident were the game was broken, boring, and littered with micro transactions.

 

I also do not like how easily it is for devs to silence any outcry against their games on the steam forums for that game, but again, such a large act of silencing does tend to speak volumes about how trustworthy that company is. I think Valve as a game developer is doing amazing, but as the runner of steam, it does need to step in and get better measures for quality control.

Oh yeah, this is a bit of a problem too with Air Control, even though that "game" isn't Early Access (it was Greenlit, but that isn't indicated anywhere on the store page). Although, it mostly amounts to the developer telling users pointing out the "game's" lack of optimization that their PC sucks.

 

Pretty sure a few of the reviewers have i7 machines with two Titans in SLI or something, a la Totalbiscuit.

Edited by Daring
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M'aiq the Liar

M'aiq the Liar 5,804

Oh yeah, this is a bit of a problem too with Air Control, even though that "game" isn't Early Access (it was Greenlit, but that isn't indicated anywhere on the store page). Although, it mostly amounts to the developer telling users pointing out the "game's" lack of optimization that their PC sucks.

 

Pretty sure a few of the reviewers have i7 machines with two Titans in SLI or something, a la Totalbiscuit.

Yea, I really dislike devs using "early access" as an excuse to release buggy titles, and not have to fix anything right away. Like the dev for the war z claimed that since the game was in beta (despite charging more than dayz standalone would later, and having a fully functional mincrotransaction market) that you could not call out its flaws, because it isn't finished. Stuff like that needs to be taken care of, and personally I feel if you are going to include a functioning real money market in your game, you cannot call that release a beta.

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long gone

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Yea, I really dislike devs using "early access" as an excuse to release buggy titles, and not have to fix anything right away. Like the dev for the war z claimed that since the game was in beta (despite charging more than dayz standalone would later, and having a fully functional mincrotransaction market) that you could not call out its flaws, because it isn't finished. Stuff like that needs to be taken care of, and personally I feel if you are going to include a functioning real money market in your game, you cannot call that release a beta.

Microtransactions shouldn't have even left phone games or F2P games in the first place.

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KokuraiNoSenshi

KokuraiNoSenshi 3,463

The more I read what everyone has posted here, the more I come to one big conclusion: It is the indie games that are causing so much heartache. Now, how do you fix this? Well the easiest way would be to just cut the Greenlight & any indie support whatsoever. But, at least in my opinion, what makes Valve so great is that they make games not just for us, but also bolster independent developers, helping them get a footing in the gaming marketplace. If we really want Valve to get rid of their indie support, then we get rid of what separates them from any other gaming company out there. Yes, other companies do support indies. But who does it to the level of Valve, giving an entire portion of their online gaming platform to people who want to become game developers. So yeah, Air Control sucked ass & we all know it. But the only reason we know it is because Valve let people in to try their hand in a media outlet that is run by big names like Call of Duty & Halo. Most indie developers wouldn't stand a chance at getting their product noticed if it weren't for Valve. Think of some of the games you might have missed out on, ones that have become incredibly enjoyable & loved by many. Just think of one, & realize that may never have happened without Valve opening their Steam doors to indies. So yeah, Valve does screw up. But they are screwing up because they want to make the community happy, & I think that is a good way to screw up if you ask me

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Thank you Pinkamena-Pills for resizing the original, and putting that little message at the end

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