movies/tv Alduin vs Luna

[Hive King 2,001]

The black dragon god takes on the princess of the night, who wins?

 

I have Alduin kicking her ass up and down the street. Nevermind what happens if he takes his true form, then she's an ant to him

[Fractured 2,684]

Alduin never did anything particularly impressive, especially compared to the other dragons. He loses, via hax if not by outright being blasted.

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,164]

If we're going by lore vs. gameplay then I think Alduin has this hands down. I love the Princess of the Night, but forgetting about the fact that apparently only the Dragonborn can kill the World Eater, Alduin can reduce an entire city to smoldering ruins (and this city was essentially a walled garrison of Imperial soldiers), can revive dragons from the dead, and can summon a maelstrom of flaming meteorites that can easily kill hundreds.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't see how Luna can win this.

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Well alduin was one of the most laughably easy boss fights I have ever had in an elderscrolls game, so give me control of Luna and alduin is done for.

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,164]

Well alduin was one of the most laughably easy boss fights I have ever had in an elderscrolls game, so give me control of Luna and alduin is done for.

 

The thing is that when it comes to Elder Scrolls, there is an unfortunate distinction between gameplay & lore. Going by lore alone, then Alduin sounds like the scariest thing outside of Hell. Go by gameplay alone and he seems like a wimp.

 

I mean yeah, compared to other end-game dragons like Grigori or the Archdemon, Alduin was a bit on the easy side, but the lore surrounding him makes up for it, IMO.

 

It doesn't help that Alduin was in Sovngarde when he was finally defeated. When the three heroes battled him at the Throat of the World, they couldn't do shit until the one guy used an Elder Scroll. Add in when the Dragonborn, Paarthurnax, and Mjoll the Lioness (my preferred companion) battled him, he was still hard as hell for me.

 

In Sovngarde vs. four Dragonborn...then yeah.

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

The thing is that when it comes to Elder Scrolls, there is an unfortunate distinction between gameplay & lore. Going by lore alone, then Alduin sounds like the scariest thing outside of Hell. Go by gameplay alone and he seems like a wimp.

 

I mean yeah, compared to other end-game dragons like Grigori or the Archdemon, Alduin was a bit on the easy side, but the lore surrounding him makes up for it, IMO.

 

It doesn't help that Alduin was in Sovngarde when he was finally defeated. When the three heroes battled him at the Throat of the World, they couldn't do shit until the one guy used an Elder Scroll. Add in when the Dragonborn, Paarthurnax, and Mjoll the Lioness (my preferred companion) battled him, he was still hard as hell for me.

 

In Sovngarde vs. four Dragonborn...then yeah.

I was wearing iron banded armor and wielding a steel sword, and despite all the other NPC's falling out of the world map, I beat him just fine in sovengard. Only took me around 10 minutes. I found him to be incredibly easy compared to bosses of older games like Daggerfall. Total of 0 deaths for me, and just rather bored at the small scale ease of beating him.

 

And remember, according to lore Luna is also fairly over powered. In her NMM form I think she could hold her own for awhile, as she has near discord level transformation powers, not to mention she can dream walk (thus beating alduin in his mind) in a sheer brute force battle she won't win, but the princess of darkness never fights upfront.

[Fractured 2,684]

If we're going by lore vs. gameplay then I think Alduin has this hands down. I love the Princess of the Night, but forgetting about the fact that apparently only the Dragonborn can kill the World Eater, Alduin can reduce an entire city to smoldering ruins (and this city was essentially a walled garrison of Imperial soldiers), can revive dragons from the dead, and can summon a maelstrom of flaming meteorites that can easily kill hundreds.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't see how Luna can win this.

Aside from hitting him with enough magical force to move the sun around, or enough physical force to pull the moon out of orbit? She should have pretty much anything lower unicorns have, so magical shields, transmutation, and a form of intangibility. Also, the ability to seal characters in books, though i'm not sure if it extends to other mediums.

edit: nix on physical force, she pulled the moon out of orbit through magic.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Shimmer5000

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,164]

I was wearing iron banded armor and wielding a steel sword, and despite all the other NPC's falling out of the world map, I beat him just fine in sovengard. Only took me around 10 minutes. I found him to be incredibly easy compared to bosses of older games like Daggerfall. Total of 0 deaths for me, and just rather bored at the small scale ease of beating him.

 

And remember, according to lore Luna is also fairly over powered. In her NMM form I think she could hold her own for awhile, as she has near discord level transformation powers, not to mention she can dream walk (thus beating alduin in his mind) in a sheer brute force battle she won't win, but the princess of darkness never fights upfront.

 

That's my point though. The main reason why Alduin became beatable was because he was in Sovngarde when he was already weakened, IIRC. He was vulnerable at that time, which is one reason why he is easy pickings. But again, lore vs. gameplay.

 

As for the lore surrounding Luna, I do agree that she is represented as being fairly powerful, but I think it might be overstated a bit. I mean yeah, she has some limited transformation skills and can dream walk; but how far does that latter power work? Could it work ala Freddy Krueger, or is it only limited to basic contact. Plus, influencing the dreams of little fillies is a different task to infiltrating the mind of one who was prophecied to end the world.

 

About the only weakness I see for Alduin is his arrogance, and he has that in spades.

 

Aside from hitting him with enough magical force to move the sun around, or enough physical force to pull the moon out of orbit? She should have pretty much anything lower unicorns have, so magical shields, transmutation, and a form of intangibility. Also, the ability to seal characters in books, though i'm not sure if it extends to other mediums.

 

To be fair, just because a unicorn can do one thing doesn't necessarily mean a specific unicorn can do those same things. Of course, I'll concede that point as Cadence possessed shield magic herself, but it put an unbelievable strain on her. Likewise, while I can see Luna holding out much longer, I can only see it being temporary. I have little reason to believe that the alicorn magic, regardless of what it can rise and lower, would make that much of a difference.

[Fractured 2,684]

That's my point though. The main reason why Alduin became beatable was because he was in Sovngarde when he was already weakened, IIRC. He was vulnerable at that time, which is one reason why he is easy pickings. But again, lore vs. gameplay.

 

As for the lore surrounding Luna, I do agree that she is represented as being fairly powerful, but I think it might be overstated a bit. I mean yeah, she has some limited transformation skills and can dream walk; but how far does that latter power work? Could it work ala Freddy Krueger, or is it only limited to basic contact. Plus, influencing the dreams of little fillies is a different task to infiltrating the mind of one who was prophecied to end the world.

 

About the only weakness I see for Alduin is his arrogance, and he has that in spades.

 

 

To be fair, just because a unicorn can do one thing doesn't necessarily mean a specific unicorn can do those same things. Of course, I'll concede that point as Cadence possessed shield magic herself, but it put an unbelievable strain on her. Likewise, while I can see Luna holding out much longer, I can only see it being temporary. I have little reason to believe that the alicorn magic, regardless of what it can rise and lower, would make that much of a difference.

It's actually because the unicorn in question was Twilight, and all of her books came from the royal sister's library.

And magic is magic. Has Alduin even done anything above moon level?

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

That's my point though. The main reason why Alduin became beatable was because he was in Sovngarde when he was already weakened, IIRC. He was vulnerable at that time, which is one reason why he is easy pickings. But again, lore vs. gameplay.

 

As for the lore surrounding Luna, I do agree that she is represented as being fairly powerful, but I think it might be overstated a bit. I mean yeah, she has some limited transformation skills and can dream walk; but how far does that latter power work? Could it work ala Freddy Krueger, or is it only limited to basic contact. Plus, influencing the dreams of little fillies is a different task to infiltrating the mind of one who was prophecied to end the world.

 

About the only weakness I see for Alduin is his arrogance, and he has that in spades.

 

 

To be fair, just because a unicorn can do one thing doesn't necessarily mean a specific unicorn can do those same things. Of course, I'll concede that point as Cadence possessed shield magic herself, but it put an unbelievable strain on her. Likewise, while I can see Luna holding out much longer, I can only see it being temporary. I have little reason to believe that the alicorn magic, regardless of what it can rise and lower, would make that much of a difference.

Due to how the lore never covered alduin's mental defenses, we can only assume he has no strengthened mental defenses for such an attack. Since he would have no greater defense, and would not be accustomed to such an attack it would be far more effective on him, as he would have never dealt with it before. Luna could easily just have a continual mental distraction running (as sweetie belle had to be released from her dream by luna, she could not wake up herself) while she just has some random hit him with a iron sword a couple of times.

 

Also, even in his strongest form during the first battle on the mountain top I bested him very easily. He is a cause of lore over reality, and if you remember most lore classifications the physical representation in the gameplay supersedes any background lore that conflicts with it. So his over powered nature is rendered moot by his physical representation in the video game. A representation that I beat with a steel sword and novice level armor.

[Hive King 2,001]

It's actually because the unicorn in question was Twilight, and all of her books came from the royal sister's library.

And magic is magic. Has Alduin even done anything above moon level?

Alduinb is a casual planet buster. Via lore, all the Elder Scrolls gods are the size of planets, and Alduin has killed several of them, putting him at at least planet level. There's also the fact that Sheogorath, who is basically Discord, is weaker than Alduin

Alduin, like all gods in Elder Scrolls, is actually a planet. All ES gods are planet busters, because they are easily capable of killing each other. They are also shapeshifters. Alduin in lore is about a bazillion times stronger than in the game. As of the time of Skyrim, he was the 2nd strongest god in our universe, only behind Jyggalag in power. And counting all the gods to have ever existed, he's still 7th in power behind Anu, Sithis, Nirn, Akatosh, Magnus and Jyggalag. Anu and Sithis were both universe busters. It was one of Anu's punches that created the universe, and all the lesser gods in it. Anu realized that if they continued their fight there, he would accidentally destroy his new children. So he pulled Sithis and himself outside of time, so they could do battle in an empty void for all eternity.

 

Alduin's purpose is to eat planets. In other words, to kill gods. Well, that's not entirely true. His real purpose was to forsake his duties and try to take over Nirn so that he could be killed by the Dovahkiin, thus fulfilling the final part of the Elder Scrolls prophecy, which was created by Anu for reasons that we can currently only speculate at.

 

 

There's his lore feats.

 

Aside from that, he can also simply rip out Luna's soul and eat it. He's also able to recreate planets after destroying them, that's his whole destiny, to destroy the world to rebuild it.

 

Aside from that, Alduin knows all the shouts according to lore. Which means he can use

 

Dismay, a shout so powerful, it can make a Dremora, someone who laughs at the though of dying, run screaming in fear.

 

Ice Form, powerful enough to freeze a Dremora

 

Slow Time, slowing down time and all enemies in the area.

 

Even if Luna can somehow survive all that, Alduin is immortal via reincarnation. Even the Dragonborn can't keep him killed permanently

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,164]

Alduinb is a casual planet buster. Via lore, all the Elder Scrolls gods are the size of planets, and Alduin has killed several of them, putting him at at least planet level. There's also the fact that Sheogorath, who is basically Discord, is weaker than Alduin

 

There's his lore feats.

 

Aside from that, he can also simply rip out Luna's soul and eat it. He's also able to recreate planets after destroying them, that's his whole destiny, to destroy the world to rebuild it.

 

Aside from that, Alduin knows all the shouts according to lore. Which means he can use

 

Dismay, a shout so powerful, it can make a Dremora, someone who laughs at the though of dying, run screaming in fear.

 

Ice Form, powerful enough to freeze a Dremora

 

Slow Time, slowing down time and all enemies in the area.

 

Even if Luna can somehow survive all that, Alduin is immortal via reincarnation. Even the Dragonborn can't keep him killed permanently

 

Agreed, and on the subject of gameplay vs. lore, if we go by gameplay as reality, then bears & saber-cats are more dangerous than any dragons; and forget about trolls.

 

As it stands, the lore is the reality of Elder Scrolls. That can't be ignored.

[Fractured 2,684]

Agreed, and on the subject of gameplay vs. lore, if we go by gameplay as reality, then bears & saber-cats are more dangerous than any dragons; and forget about trolls.

 

As it stands, the lore is the reality of Elder Scrolls. That can't be ignored.

Except where it clearly contradicts what happens. Remember when I said what has he done to even be moon level? The most you've given me is city level. I mean, fables are great and all, but unless you can actually do what they say, they're just boasts, aren't they?

edit: also, kinda want to know how fast he is, there's been no mention of it.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Shimmer5000

[Hive King 2,001]

Except where it clearly contradicts what happens. Remember when I said what has he done to even be moon level? The most you've given me is city level. I mean, fables are great and all, but unless you can actually do what they say, they're just boasts, aren't they?

edit: also, kinda want to know how fast he is, there's been no mention of it.

Via lore, Arceus created the universe, yet someone can catch him in a Pokeball. It's called game-play-story segregation, it happens a lot. An in universe explanation is that Alduin is so cocky, he decided to use a fraction of his power. 

 

There's nothing to say they are boasts when everyone says he's the World Eater. Even Paarthurnaax, someone who should know him better than anyone, doesn't deny that claim of Alduin being the one to destroy the world and remake it. 

 

As for speed, it hardly matters as he has the Slow Time shout. And I still think that Luna being a speed demon is complete conjecture based on lol calcs. If you are going to bring that in, I could find some calculation for the amount of power Alduin needs to recreate a planet, easily

[Darker 1,352]

Alduin, just because he's in my top 10 most awesome dragons.

[Gatekeeper Giggle 2,902]

Well, it depends if on what you mean by Alduin Vs Luna. If you mean a straight up battle, Alduin is going to win hands down. But in my opinion Luna is far smarter then Aldiun, and she would win in a battle of wits.   

[Shift 4,274]

Unless Luna has Dragonrend, Alduin smashes her.

[Fractured 2,684]

Via lore, Arceus created the universe, yet someone can catch him in a Pokeball. It's called game-play-story segregation, it happens a lot. An in universe explanation is that Alduin is so cocky, he decided to use a fraction of his power. 

 

There's nothing to say they are boasts when everyone says he's the World Eater. Even Paarthurnaax, someone who should know him better than anyone, doesn't deny that claim of Alduin being the one to destroy the world and remake it. 

 

As for speed, it hardly matters as he has the Slow Time shout. And I still think that Luna being a speed demon is complete conjecture based on lol calcs. If you are going to bring that in, I could find some calculation for the amount of power Alduin needs to recreate a planet, easily

Alduin's been retconned in Skyrim. He was originally Akatosh, but now he's technically his child. He lost a lot of power, too.

Anyway, most we have from him is maybe a town level th'umm and a meteor shower, from what i'm reading. We don't have any speed gauge, apparently, which kinda makes Luna faster by default unless someone wants to pitch in and tell me how fast he is.

 

And to those who keep insisting dragonrend... does Alduin have any resistance to transmutation? If not, he can spend eternity as an immortal houseplant.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Shimmer5000

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Alduin's been retconned in Skyrim

Nothing suggests this

 

 

He was originally Akatosh, but now he's technically his child

To quote Mai'q on the issue

"Some say Alduin is Akatosh, some say Mai'q is a liar"

 

 

He lost a lot of power, too

Didn't lose it, just didn't use it

 

 

Anyway, most we have from him is maybe a town level th'umm and a meteor shower

And lore saying he eats planets like candy

 

 

We don't have any speed gauge, apparently, which kinda makes Luna faster by default unless someone wants to pitch in and tell me how fast he is

He flew from High H'rothgar to your execution in about 20 seconds

 

 

And to those who keep insisting dragonrend... does Alduin have any resistance to transmutation? If not, he can spend eternity as an immortal houseplant.

It comes with the job description, if he wasn't, Sheogorath would have kicked his ass long ago 

[Fractured 2,684]

Didn't lose it, just didn't use it

 

He flew from High H'rothgar to your execution in about 20 seconds

 

 

It comes with the job description, if he wasn't, Sheogorath would have kicked his ass long ago 

Debating with opinions/subjective information? I don't see this ending well.

 

How fast/far is that...

 

Does Sheogorath have some form of Transmutation? Has he used it on Alduin?

 

Still waiting to solve this before I even talk about Luna.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Debating with opinions/subjective information? I don't see this ending well.

If he didn't have it, no god or daedra would have respected him, yet they still did

 

 

How fast/far is that...

 

He flew 7 miles in about 30 seconds, right after he was weakened from being shoved into a time rift face first

 

 

Does Sheogorath have some form of Transmutation? Has he used it on Alduin?

Sheogorath changes people to goats and his favorite weapon can make explosive chickens pop out of thin air. Yeah, he's got tons of it 

[Fractured 2,684]

If he didn't have it, no god or daedra would have respected him, yet they still did

 

 

 

He flew 7 miles in about 30 seconds, right after he was weakened from being shoved into a time rift face first

 

 

Sheogorath changes people to goats and his favorite weapon can make explosive chickens pop out of thin air. Yeah, he's got tons of it 

hype to opinions to assumptions... we're moving backwards here.

 

That's slightly above the speed of sound. That's not going to be enough here.

 

So he's fought Sheogorath, or resisted his transmutation?

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

That's slightly above the speed of sound. That's not going to be enough here.

Why not? Nightmare Moon wasn't making sonic booms while she dog fought with Celestia

 

 

So he's fought Sheogorath, or resisted his transmutation?

No, but Sheogorath mentioned that "Alduin is too much trouble to take on. Taking on some weaker guy is more fun...or is it the other way around? My memory is slipping" 

[Fractured 2,684]

Why not? Nightmare Moon wasn't making sonic booms while she dog fought with Celestia

 

 

No, but Sheogorath mentioned that "Alduin is too much trouble to take on. Taking on some weaker guy is more fun...or is it the other way around? My memory is slipping" 

Because her magic is fast enough to control the sun and moon about a second after using it, and top tiers have the speed necessary to dodge(not outrun, mind you, dodge) blasts moving that fast? Even excluding her moon to earth trick, she flies circles around him.

 

So he has resisted transmutation, then? From someone on his level?

 

Another question- How's he with mind control?

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Because her magic is fast enough to control the sun and moon about a second after using it, and top tiers have the speed necessary to dodge(not outrun, mind you, dodge) blasts moving that fast? Even excluding her moon to earth trick, she flies circles around him.

Having a telekinetic connection to something isn't the same thing as just firing blasts. Again, bringing science into this makes no sense because you and I both know the writers didn't take that into account

 

 

So he has resisted transmutation, then? From someone on his level?

He's at least tough enough that Sheogorath, a daedra of chaos who can drive men insane with the slightest of effort, considers him too much trouble to go after and would rather hang low than confront him directly

 

 

Another question- How's he with mind control?

All Daedra seen in the game have sort of mind power, but they've never tried it against Alduin. Why does it even matter? Luna never showed that off. Regardless, Alduin knows shouts that can tame wild beasts in an instant and bring them to his command, so he has experience with it too